Don Was discusses his work on the reissue of 'Exile On Main St' at the Grammy Museum
June 4 Phyllis Pollack
Don Was at the Grammy Museum with Scott Goldman.
Photo ©Vicky Sapp/Wire Image
Musician and producer Don Was discussed his work on the reissue of the Rolling Stones
Exile On Main St. at the Grammy Museum in Los Angeles on Wednesday night, a work that included ten previously unreleased bonus tracks.
Was presented his fast-moving presentation on the soundstage at the museum’s newly renamed Clive Davis Auditorium, in a question and answer session moderated by Scott Goldman, Vice President of the Grammy Foundation.
The audience was enraptured throughout the presentation, and often in laughter, owing to Was’ trail of witty remarks, as he recounted his role in the album’s reissue.
The 1972 album, originally recorded at Villa Nellcote, has been surrounded by fabled tales that have been documented by photographer Dominique Tarle, whose photos can be seen in the upcoming DVD
Stones In Exile.
Tarle has penned a book of his memoirs of shooting the band while they recorded the album. The original album’s producer was the late Jimmy Miller.
Former Stones guitarist Mick Taylor, who had replaced Brian Jones, and preceded Ronnie Wood, was brought back to contribute to the reissue set.
Was noted that Richards spent three days in New York to record his parts for the bonus tracks, and that Mick Jagger had not seen guitarist Mick Taylor in twenty five-years. As far as Taylor’s newly added licks he contributed, Was commented that Taylor “knocked them out in an hour.”
The presentation started with a viewing the preview DVD disc that is included in the Deluxe Version of the reissue from Universal Music Group.
The evening was laced with Was’ wry humor, as he discussed his task of going through hundreds of studio session tapes, in an effort to select and produce bonus tracks for the album’s reissue. How many tapes were there? “I don’t know,” said Was. He recounted that “about a little over year ago, Mick called me up. I could tell the way he was talking to me,” that Jagger sounded as if he was going to ask him to do something that no one would want to do, “like take out the garbage.”
Wryly, Was said that Mick had told him he was sending four discs, adding yet more humor to the story of his producing the album.
Was explained there were four CDs that he and Richards had gotten together, and they had narrowed it down to some fragments. They felt “There must be something we can salvage.”
Was, who had previously worked with the Stones, and did stunning work on the Rolling Stones'
Voodoo Lounge, and contributed to their
Bigger Bang album, and is credited on their
40 Licks and
Live Licks.
Despite rare, gourmet bootlegs that include a 1972 double album vinyl bootleg
Taxile On Mainstreet/What’s Left Alive, surprisingly very little officially unreleased material has returned from those sessions.
Was reminisced about when he was younger, and he had first heard the album
Exile On Main St. Recalling his attending the University of Michigan at Ann Arbor, surrounded by a political underground that included the Students for Democratic Society (SDS) and the Weatherman, Was indicated, “There was a growing sense you couldn’t work in the system...You had to get out, or blow it up.”
Was said that his left-leaning environment, coupled with listening to
Exile, had a profound impact on him, and that he would make the decision to drop out of college. He then joked that was not likely Mick Jagger’s intent when the British vocalist recorded the album.
Was described
Exile as having “a pretty inspiring rock and roll message.” Was felt compelled to heed whatever that call was.
He then said in jest, “It’s pretty clear, what they had in mind was, ‘Let’s get our money back.’
“People look to musicians not as gurus, political leaders, leaders,” he said, in an effort to elucidate how the fans’ view them. It was clear that in his mind, when it came to The Stones, the band’s music was stronger than just a fad, or some sort of “fashion,” a word that Was used twice when explaining what The Stones were not about.
“I’m just a big fan of that version of the band. You have to remember Jim Price, Bobby Keys, and Nicky Hopkins,” he said. Was also spoke of his admiration for Miller, and his work with Traffic and the Spencer Davis Group.
Was alluded to Bob Ludwig’s remastering it “in the modern lexicon.”
Was referred to the sound on
Exile as “murky.” He described the sound, saying, “It’s grainy, like Tarle’s photos. Swampy, murky, impenetrable.”
Was made note of the fact that so many artists have unsuccessfully tried to capture the feel and sound of
Exile in their own works.
“Mick and Keith are oppositional. Mick is singing R&B, but Keith is playing rock,” said Was.
He described “the width in the phrasing, discussing drummer Charlie Watts’ playing, timing and syncopation. Explaining Watts’ drumming, he said, “Picture a grid where two things meet. None of the great drummers are literally on the beat. They’re a little behind on it.” He noted, “You can graph it out. Charlie’s bass, snare and high hat timing, versus a quantized drum machine.” He joked about what the result would be of quantizing Watts’ tracks, saying, “Maybe if you’re making a Kraftwerk record.”
“Charlie Watts is diving into an Olympic size pool. Wherever it lands, it’s going to sound good. That is part of the elements” that achieve the band’s unique sound. He then referred to other musicians that play Stones covers, but do not get the sound that The Stones achieve. “You can play all the open G strings you want,” said Was, referring to Keith’s use of such tuning. The song has to have all of those elements, he said.
Was made it clear that he understands how The Stones draw out their musical map, in several ways where ultimately, it’s the singer, not the song, when it comes achieving the end result in the studio.
Was also noted the way The Stones merge guitar riffs with the melody of a song, and why the collision of the two works.
While rumors and postings have persisted in the internet for years that there is unreleased material featuring Keith Richards and the late Gram Parsons, it has been clear for even longer that there are none. Was again confirmed that fact last night, noting of the ill-fated singer, songwriter and guitarist, “His influence is heard” on the band, acknowledged Was, as “He turned Keith onto American country music.”
Country leanings can be heard in many Stones tracks including “Country Honk,” and subsequent recordings such as “Faraway Eyes.” “Country Honk” would later become “Honky Tonk Women,” for which Richards has largely accredited the resulting sound to Taylor.
Was discussed the fact that “the vocals were pushed down” on the original version of
Exile on Main St., an unexpected thing to do, which he said was likely due to a decision made by the late Miller. Referring to himself, Jagger and Richards, Was explained, “We started early on, as to how loud should be.” He pre-empted any questions about conflict between the Stones lead singer and anyone else by promptly adding, “There was never a confrontation about it.”
He said that with the track “Following The River,” “It was really (keyboardist) Nicky (Hopkins) and Keith playing. There was no indication of what the lyrics or the melody would be, so Mick had to approach it from scratch.”
It was poignant when Was talked about the first time he listened to that bonus track. He thought it was Jagger’s way of saying the band would never tour again. Was referred to its lyric line, “There's been some other lads in this room with me, we're really quite a crowd, It's hard to break it gently, but I really thought it through, I don't think there's much future left for me and you.”
“The first time I heard it, I heard it as a farewell to the (live) audience. It was really chilling. It was really emotional,” commented Was.
At that juncture, it was clearly evident the audience seemed concerned and dismayed about the idea of The Rolling Stones never touring again. There was a momentary tenseness felt in the room.
“But I talked to him (Jagger), and it was something else,” confirmed Was. As might be expected from those who came to see Was at the Grammy Museum, quite audible, unintentional sighs of relief and long exhaled breaths were heard after that quote from was.
Between that commentary and Was’ often comedic delivery, it was a lively evening, worthy of the album.
Was acknowledged, “He didn’t do it from the point of view of a 28-year old man.” He added that Jagger “remained excited throughout the rest of the project.”
When asked by
Examiner where Richards’ instrumental bonus track “Title 5” came from in the mass of tapes, as it does not sound like anything remotely close to
Exile works, he stated it was not from any of the
Exile sessions. He said with a laugh, “Richards barely remembered it, and thinks he was testing out a pedal” used for guitar effects.
Was talked about how loose it was back then, as far as how master reels were dealt with. He joked as he talked about how arbitrarily with many albums, someone at a later stage in an album’s release could make changes after the producer had completed his work on it. The reigns were not held as tightly as they are now, and people that were not sanctioned to make such revisions on an album sometimes took license.
As far as cataloguing the Stones works, Was noted there are places where you can find discographies listing session dates and studio sessions. Was’ statement is easily proven true if you know where to look for these lists, or have already been aware of such sources. They are fascinating as to seeing when songs have been recorded, just as Was noted last night, “The band is known for” using songs on albums that were culled from past recording sessions.
Was told the Grammy Museum audience, “There were no notes,” pointing out, “Things were written on the box. You don’t know subsequently what happened to the songs.”
Regarding Richards’ track “Take 5,” Was offered, “I’m guessing it is post
Their Satanic Majesties Request.”
When an audience member asked a question about the effect of heroin use on the album’s sound, Was had an answer, as Richards was clearly on top of his game while recording
Exile. As far as the long fabled partying, decadence and debauchery at Nellcote, Was stated, “You can’t do that many tapes, you can’t be incapacitated.” Acknowledging the “partying upstairs” at Nellcote, Was said, “I don’t think it had tremendous influence with what went on downstairs,” where the band recorded in France, in addition to the mobile truck outside the Villa.
Was commented that when working on the reissue, his mission was to “stay true with what they (The Rolling Stones) intended.” He elaborated that while he was working on the album, Keith Richards sent him a fax emphasizing, “Don’t try to make it sound like
Exile, it is
Exile.”
He said that while producing the tracks, he felt obligated to keep in mind that “preserving the mystery is an important part of my gig.”
The band wanted works from that time period for the bonus tracks. “We wanted to play this by the book,” said Was.
Was also talked about the Stones staple “Tumblin’ Dice,” and how low the vocals were on it. At one point, Was said, “Mick just thinks they sent the wrong version.”
Was also acknowledged, “I worked with Khrish Sharma, a great engineer.” Although he did not mention it during his presentation, Sharma had also worked with many times with Was on his own projects, adding to their noteworthy chemistry in the studio.
Was was emphatic about his dedication to “stay true to the intent” of the album’s original release. Was added that while working on the tracks, he would often wonder of Jimmy Miller, “What would he have done? I don’t know. He mixed the vocals down.” Was remains baffled by the decision to push those vocals down in the original release. “Wow, don’t you want to listen to it? But that’s how they made that record.”
As far as the manifest, Was acknowledge of the masters, “None of them are in the state they left Nellcote in, since they were taken to Olympic.” The Stones had brought the reels from Nellcote to Los Angeles, where they were completed at Olympic Studios. The photos taken on L.A.’s Main St. in the city’s downtown area by noted photographer Robert Frank, would end up being a historic part of the Stones’
Exile period.
Bob Clearmountain being involved again with The Stones to remix the album was also noted by Was. Stated Was, “I think it’s got a little more depth to it,” but, Was noted, the sound of the reissue is still in keeping with the sonic intent of the original incarnation.
Was, who has long been a member of his band Was (Not Was) won a Grammy Award in the category of Producer Of The Year in 1995. He has worked with many artists, including Bob Dylan and Bonnie Raitt.
Was felt it was important to set the record straight, and to go on record regarding the response to the original
Exile album, by mentioning the positive reviews that were published at the time of the original album’s release in music publications that included UK’s
Melody Maker.
Before playing outtakes last night, Was said he talked to Mick earlier in the day, and asked his permission to do so. The audience laughed when Was said, “and he (Jagger) sends his best to you.” He added, “And he said he was interested in what you would think about it.”
Was noted, “There was never a sense these would be of value to anyone four decades later.” He said, therefore, “So you couldn’t find the tapes.”
Was played outtakes and from multi-track recording, played vocal parts for tracks such as “Loving Cup,” including a hilarious outtake of Richards and Jagger sounding countrified, drunk and partied up, gearing up for the recording. Richards can be heard at one point, exclaiming, “Get it on.”
Was went to great length to explain what he feels sets The Stones apart musically, and how they get their signature sound. He attributed it much to Charlie Watts’ ability to know to slightly evade the exact beat, and make it sound right musically. As he played single tracks, such as an instrumental, he would say, “Here’s Keith’s guitar.” Upon Watts’ drum riffs playing, Was said, “You can hear Keiths’ guitar track bleeding into it.”
Was gave accolades to bassist Bill Wyman, at one point referring to one of his licks as “genius.” He noted that Bill Plummer, who adds bass parts on the album, is often incorrectly credited for Wyman’s work on it. Was gushed, “I developed a whole new respect for him (Wyman) on the new tracks.”
Was joked about the bonus track “Dancing In the Light,” saying that he had toyed with the thought of adding some bass to it, himself. “I’m at home. Who’s gonna know?” joked Was. “Forget it,” said Was. “He’s (Wyman) one of the great bass players of all time.”
Was briefly also mentioned some behind-the-scenes discussions that occurred during the recording of
Bridges To Babylon, noting experimenting with loops, including one from Dr. Dre’s album
The Chronic, which was obviously not used for the 1997 Stones album.
Those present were delighted to hear Was’ personal insights into the fans’ passion for the Stones, and the band’s ability to remain one of the top concert draws internationally. Was pontificated that fans project themselves into the band, and into the meanings of their lyrics. He used his incorrect assumption about the lyrics from “Follow The River” as and example of such projections.
Was also joked, “If Mick Jagger is ten years older than I am, and he’s running all over the stage like that, then I’m not old yet.” He stated his belief that fans neuroses merge into their attraction for the band, and that “Something in the combination of those five guys fills it.”
Was said of Keith Richards, “He’s your designated Wildman. It (admiration of Richards) verifies that ‘it’ is still alive in you.”
Was talked about Pierre DeBeauport, and recounted a humorous story, involving the fact that he and the band needed to get a copy of the original release on vinyl in mint condition. Therefore, resorting to look in the record collectors magazine
Goldmine, and found two people selling it, who they talked to coming down to deliver the albums. “We were recording at my house on Mullholland Drive,” said Was. “They didn’t know who it was, and Mick and Keith were buying their albums.”
Was recounted the band spent $250,000.00 on tape, alone, while recording
Bridges To Babylon, and the band had a “day librarian and a night librarian” to keep track of the album’s recording session tapes.
“There’s always something that comes out two or three years later,” he said, referring to works of the band that appear on later albums.
Was raved about a still unreleased track recorded for
Goats Head Soup called “Scarlet,” proclaiming, “It could be a hit.” (Writers note: A Richards composition, "Scarlet" was recorded at Olympic Studios.)
After the event, Was sat at a table in the museum, and signed copies of the reissue that are available for purchase at the Grammy Museum, offering a meet and greet.
The band has a slew of outtakes Was, who says the Stones’
Some Girls era was one of his favorite places in the band’s timeline, said, “There’s a ton of stuff in the vault from that period,” adding, “You could easily make ten or twelve records like this
Exile thing.”
It won't be a minute too soon.
The Examiner A very good read.
Haters be damned, Was provides insight that few others can.
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