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left shoe shuffle Rocks Off Regular Offline Posts: 4,141	Re: Quality Output is at an all time low Reply #50 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 11:04am Ian Billen wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 12:52am: Zack Wrote: Ian, you need to give yourself an education in music. Um, Zack didn't write that...
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Zack

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Re: Quality Output is at an all time low ....from
Reply #51 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 11:10am

Ian Billen wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 12:58am:

Zack Wrote:

Ian, you need to give yourself an education in music.

No I didn't. That was Prodigal Son. Why don't you use the quote button? It's in the upper right-hand corner. Just push it. Just make sure you leave the opening and closing brackets, and cut out what you don't want.

Also, have you really listened to Lucinda Williams more than just in passing? You can download her new one free here (just keep scrolling down):

http://zinhof.blog.hr/2008/10/index.html#1625524507

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Re: Quality Output is at an all time low ....from
Reply #52 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 11:12am

Gazza Wrote:

"She's not remotely like Bonnie Raitt and, far from "everyone acting like she is", you're the first person I've ever heard suggest that there's any significant similarity."

_______________________

Gazza.. that is certainly no secret bro.. the first person that gave me her CD singles recommended her because I liked Bonnie Raitt so I listened to it. Not just that but I've heard it, read it, and discussed it with a people who and was noted it on several occasions.... She is just an updated version for the later part of this decade is all she is (an no real discredit to her). Many of her songs sound like they are actually Bonnie Raitt written to me. She is similar in musical style, lyrics and from what I can tell the way she is produced/recorded (as well as age and image). What eles would you call it? In other words it is an older cool country chic with a touch of Rock n Roll to her style that got more popular in her later years. Geez I could instantly hear it without even knowing anything about her three years ago. If you haven't yet just get a full Bonnie Raitt album to listen to? If you haven't you should. I know you have heard her many times and I even seen you mention here here before a few times.

Don't get me wrong Lucida Williams isn't bad. She is probably in the top three country females today from what I heard. I listened to her a few things by her myself here personally.
And I listen to her here and again.

People are going to kill me but Producer Bill Bortrell or Don Was should really work with her.
Not that she needs help because shes fine as I said but I think if either of them worked with her they could put out a really good album.

Ian

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Re: Quality Output is at an all time low ....from
Reply #53 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 11:20am

Ian Billen wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 11:12am:

Gazza Wrote:

"She's not remotely like Bonnie Raitt and, far from "everyone acting like she is", you're the first person I've ever heard suggest that there's any significant similarity."

_______________________

Gazza.. that is certainly no secret bro.. the first person that gave me her CD singles recommended her because I liked Bonnie Raitt so I listened to it. Not just that but I've heard it, read it, and discussed it with a few people who noted them as being the same deal. She is just an updated version for the later part of this decade is all she is. Many of her songs sound like they are Bonnie Raitt written to me. She is similar in musical style, lyrics, as well as age. What eles would you call it? In other words it is an older cool country chic with a touch of Rock n Roll to her style that got more popular in her later years. Geez I could instantly hear it without even knowing anything about her three years ago. Did you ever actually a Bonnie Raitt album to listen to? If you haven't you should. I think you'll agree.

Don't get me wrong she isn't bad. I listened to a few things by her myself personally quite a few times.
And I listen to her here and again.

People are going to kill me but Producer Bill Bortrell or Don Was should really work with her.
Not that she needs help because shes fine as I said but I think if either of them worked with her they could put out a really good album.

Ian

Oh right, I gotcha - the "everyone" you're referring to happens to be your circle of friends who have presumably the same frame of reference as yourself. I'm a fan of Bonnie Raitt - I dont happen to think they're significantly alike.

She doesnt need Don Was to make a 'really good album'. 'Car Wheels on a Gravel Road' blows the shit out of ANY album Don Was has ever been associated with. Including the ones he made with the Stones and Dylan.

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Zack Rocks Off Regular Offline Chiba Face Rules You Bastards! Posts: 1,727 Dakar Gender:	Re: Quality Output is at an all time low ....from Reply #54 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 11:27am Now that I wrote it I had to look it up: Top 10 for first week of December 1969 1. Abbey Road 2. Led Zeppelin II 3. Tom Jones Live in Vegas 4. Green River 5. Let It Bleed 6. Santana 7. Cloud 9/Puzzle People - Temptations 8. Blood, Sweat, and Tears 9. Crosby Stills and Nash 10. Easy Rider soundtrack
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Re: Quality Output is at an all time low ....from
Reply #55 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 11:33am

Anybody here into the Bloody Hollies?

Their last album, "Who to trust, who to kill, who to love," kicked so much ass! http://www.myspace.com/thebloodyhollies

Another really great new band is StoneRider. Saw them live and they were awesome.
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=206639...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGygqRFMcsQ&feature=related

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Re: Quality Output is at an all time low ....from
Reply #56 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 11:33am

Ian (and anyone else interested in quality music from 2008)

could i point you in the direction of these great cd's, from 2008:-

Are you aware of the terrific band, British Sea Power? You rock!

They're latest album, "Do You Like Rock Music?", is a truly essential purchase, from this year.

other fantastic stuff,not mentioned, in previous thread posts, from a GREAT year in music:-

"For Emma, Forever Ago" - Bon Iver

"Sunday At Devil Dirt" - Isobel Campbell & Mark Lanegan

"The Seldom Seen Kid" - Elbow

...and the best read from 2008???

Mark Everett's memoirs (Eels frontman and tour de force) - heartbreaking, humourous - a stunning book

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Re: Quality Output is at an all time low
Reply #57 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 11:35am

Ian Billen wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 11:12am:

Don't get me wrong Lucida Williams isn't bad. She is probably in the top three country females today from what I heard. I listened to her a few things by her myself here personally.
And I listen to her here and again.

People are going to kill me but Producer Bill Bortrell or Don Was should really work with her.

"...I would never work with anyone other than Eric Liljestrand — he's just the right guy for me. There are other great engineers out there, but finding someone who understands your needs; knows how to get the right sound for your own voice; knows which particular vocal mic to use; has an extensive knowledge of the history of blues, soul, R&B and country; is fun to work with; has a great sense of humor; never complains about working long hours — what else can I say? Wherever Eric is working, that's where I'll be — kinda like biscuits and gravy!”

--Lucinda Williams, Mix Magazine, Oct 2008

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Re: Quality Output is at an all time low ....from
Reply #58 - Nov 3^rd, 2008 at 2:02am

Zack wrote:

"No I didn't. That was Prodigal Son. Why don't you use the quote button? "

________________________

I apologize Zack. I messed up. (I do use the quote button in the fashion you suggested and the message doesn't always present itself right so I try and steer away from that. It may be I am on a Mac using Mozilla? Not Sure.)

Ian

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Re: Quality Output is at an all time low ....from
Reply #59 - Nov 3^rd, 2008 at 2:26am

Gazza wrote:

"Oh right, I gotcha - the "everyone" you're referring to happens to be your circle of friends who have presumably the same frame of reference as yourself.

__________________________

Wait a minute Guy, I was first suggested listening to Lucinda Williams by a woman I barely knew. She gave me the CD singles because she was doing marketing for some lable (I assume it was who Lucinda Williams is on but I can't remember. I wasn't even in this area of the country then). My friends have nothing to do with it. In fact, most of them make fun of me for liking Bonnie Raitt anyway. The woman said they were in the same vain and I that I would like Lucinda Willliam's new one based on that. I am guessing that vain is Contemporary Country/folk/rock pop right? Isn't that what Lucinda Williams is? Well that is very much Bonnie Raitt's music as well. In addition they are both older woman who sing about being around the block as a woman and lost loves. I would concur that is a decent comparison. I discussed it with others who were Bonnie Raitt fans and they seen my point when I mentioned that people seem to act as if Williams is the "new" Bonnie Raitt or something (in which were not really my friends and they concured that as well).

***You also never heard it wasn't Mick on the cover of Tattoo You until I spoke of it. Read Wikipedia's take on Tattoo You's cover art and you'll see I wasn't the only one in the world. You are in the UK (a cool place to say the least and things get stuck on one side or the other at times is all). They basically reported the exact same thing I said concerning who it really was on Tattoo You and I got slammed for it.

***You are in the UK. I want you to read who Uncut's UK edition compares Lucinda Williams style specifically to. Not for anything but as you know these writers are not my friends either

:

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:Taf769H2SycJ:www.uncut.co.uk/music/lucinda_...

If you really want to know I personally think Williams sounds like Kim Richey even more but I didn't want to compare her to Richey because Richey hasn't achieved any super fame or that notoriety so I used Bonnie Raitt as an example.

I'm a fan of Bonnie Raitt - I don't happen to think they're significantly alike.

______________________________

Every time I hear Lucinda Williams slow stuff all I can think about is Bonnie Raitt's "I Can't Make You Love Me". Same style, same message, considerably similar sound. I never knew you were or weren't a fan of Bonnie Raitt. I was simply saying if your not, you should look into her further is all.

She doesn't need Don Was to make a 'really good album'.

_________________________________

I don't mean it like that. I mean I'd love to see what they did with her. Meaning she "really" as in "I really wish" she would because I see great potential for a really good album there is all.

'Car Wheels on a Gravel Road' blows the shit out of ANY album Don Was has ever been associated with. Including the ones he made with the Stones and Dylan.

________________________________

Well. I can't say it is better because I have not heard that album (nor can I say it would be worse). I will certainly try and listen to it. Is it better than Bonnie Raitt's Nick Of Time? Is it better than LIONS by The Black Crowes ? Just curious on your opinion. Certainly wasn't slighting your perception in saying I could instantly hear it or it's no sceret. You know a heck of alot music so I was surprised in that you didn't see the similarity.

Ian

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Ade Rocks Off Regular Offline What's Occuring? Posts: 3,145 London, U.K Gender:	Re: Quality Output is at an all time low ....from Reply #60 - Nov 3^rd, 2008 at 2:31am as a fan of both, Kim Richey and Lucinda Williams, i fail to see the comparison.
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Ian Billen

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Re: Quality Output is at an all time low ....from
Reply #61 - Nov 3^rd, 2008 at 4:30am

Ade wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2008 at 2:31am:

as a fan of both, Kim Richey and Lucinda Williams, i fail to see the comparison.

____________________

"Girl In A Car" by Richey...this doesn't sound like Lucinda Williams to you? That's just one example to me that comes to mind right off hand.

By the way, how do you like the album "Rise"? A good album it surely is. I am a ..well ..I do not want to say "fan" (only have that album by her) but I heard a lot of other stuff by her and she's pretty good.

As far as Bonnie Raitt goes there is not only a similarity but a "direct comparison" has been made by many other than myself. Lucinda Williams stole the Contemporary folk/country/pop-rock Queen title from Bonnie Raitt these past four years. Whether it was warranted and deserved or not is simply opinion. I've spoke (and read) they are similar stylistically, and as well by the way they both happen to have come to fame in their position in life. In fact, I have read they should of been sisters they were so in line!

I understand you don't hear it and that's fine. I sometimes see an article from notable sources comparing styles or sound from different artists and I don't always hear it at all as well. Certainly not to harp on it with you

. Back to Richey ..I admire your a Kim Richey fan.

Ian

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Re: Quality Output is at an all time low ....from
Reply #62 - Nov 3^rd, 2008 at 6:24am

Ian Billen wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2008 at 2:26am:

I am guessing that vain is Contemporary Country/folk/rock pop right? Isn't that what Lucinda Williams is? Well that is very much Bonnie Raitt's music as well.

Ian - it's a label, it means nothing, mate. To me, pigeonholing music into indefinable genres is pointless and redundant. Especially when you choose FIVE of them. To me there's only two types of music - good music and bad music.

I personally dont consider them that much alike. Maybe you do. That's fair enough. Each to their own.

Ian Billen wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2008 at 2:26am:

In addition they are both older woman who sing about being around the block as a woman and lost loves. I would concur that is a decent comparison. I discussed it with others who were Bonnie Raitt fans and they seen my point when I mentioned that people seem to act as if Williams is the "new" Bonnie Raitt or something (in which were not really my friends and they concured that as well).

She made her first record in 1978. Bonnie Raitt made hers about five years earlier I think. As neither were particularly commercially successful or musically groundbreaking, calling someone a 'new' anything (especially a quarter century or more into their career) is a bit meaningless.

Ian Billen wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2008 at 2:26am:

Well. I can't say it is better because I have not heard that album (nor can I say it would be worse). I will certainly try and listen to it. Is it better than Bonnie Raitt's Nick Of Time? Is it better than LIONS by The Black Crowes ? Just curious on your opinion.

havent heard that Black Crows album and I'm not a fan, Ian, so it wouldnt be a fair comparison to make. 'Nick of Time' is a good record, and its easily the most commercial album Bonnie Raitt ever made, I'd imagine. 'Car Wheels' is far better, though. probably one of my three or four favourite albums of the '90's. I dont think she's come close to touching it since, in all honesty.

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Re: Quality Output is at an all time low ....from
Reply #63 - Nov 3^rd, 2008 at 9:30am

Ian Billen wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2008 at 4:30am:

Back to Richey ..I admire your a Kim Richey fan.

she used to reside in my home city, of London.
So she used to play the circuit on a regular basis, and this is how i was initially,
introduced to her music.
My favourite album's of her's are 'Glimmer', 'Bittersweet' and 'Chinese Boxes'.

A criminally underrated artist.

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Re: Quality Output is at an all time low ....from
Reply #64 - Nov 3^rd, 2008 at 10:01pm

Mr. Gazz,

I realize that Lucida Williams has been around for a while but not at this level of popularity. She was basically unkown until like eight years ago when she kinda broke through to the spotlight is what I was saying.

What I am tryin to get across is I don't proclaim anything based on my "circle of friends" and I don't make up these things from my "own" assumptions just to tell folks here that it's the facts as you indicated. Those things I told you are very true on both accounts. I know you don't see it that way and that is perfectly fine but you can't go on to tell me that things I sometimes say ( only to get scorned for) is simply based all from my own assumptions and my friends opinions because that's simply untrue.

On to more important matters. I will make a deal with you, I certainly will get "Car Wheels On a Gravel Flippin Road". Geeze my Knees if I hear one more person tell me about this fantastic album I am gonna regurgitate my dinner. Don't worry, I know it is at least pretty decent and I will call it like I hear it with an open mind. I have not heard anything from her that was below fair and if it is at least a good album I won't peep a complaint. I do honestly want to hear it though. I always did like "World Without Tears". That's a good song. I don't know the album

But you have to listen to LIONS. I am not a Black Crows fan either and never was. To me they were always too much of a generic Faces/Stones early seventies mix just not nearly as good or authentic.

Enter LIONS. You won't be disappointed. Deal?

By the way, I like Bonnie Raitt a lot but I am no real huge fan. I have three of her albums here. Sounds like you like her more than me.

Ian

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Re: Quality Output is at an all time low ....from
Reply #65 - Nov 3^rd, 2008 at 10:06pm

Ade Wrote:

she used to reside in my home city, of London.
So she used to play the circuit on a regular basis, and this is how i was initially,
introduced to her music.
My favourite album's of her's are 'Glimmer', 'Bittersweet' and 'Chinese Boxes'.

A criminally underrated artist.

_____________________________

Really? Awesome. I like Kim Richey. Do you have her album "Rise"? That is a good album with good production. She isn't English though right?

As far as "British Sea Power"? No I have never heard of them.

Over the past five years I have a MS Word Doc. of interesting artists and/or artists to listen to that I have not heard before. I have just added them. I will check them out, sooner if not later. Especially the album you suggested.

Ian

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Re: Quality Output is at an all time low ....from
Reply #66 - Nov 4^th, 2008 at 3:01am

tookthatname Wrote:

BY CONTRACT KISS's 4 solo albums had to go gold on the day of release. This gives the impression that they SOLD 500.000 copies that day, they hardly SOLD any. Gold and platinum records are awarded on the number SHIPPED, not sold.

________________________________

That was in the "Billboard days" as they call it now. Now an electronic networking system called Soundscan (I am sure you heard of them) keeps track and calculates sales from purchase at the cash registers of the retail sites. Shipments aren't calculated into converted sales anymore.

Your right, in the old days, well until about a decade ago (give or take a year or two) record sales were considerably inaccurate at times.

Ian

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Re: Quality Output is at an all time low ....from
Reply #67 - Nov 4^th, 2008 at 3:38am

Zack wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 11:27am:

Now that I wrote it I had to look it up:

Top 10 for first week of December 1969

1. Abbey Road
2. Led Zeppelin II
3. Tom Jones Live in Vegas
4. Green River
5. Let It Bleed
6. Santana
7. Cloud 9/Puzzle People - Temptations
8. Blood, Sweat, and Tears
9. Crosby Stills and Nash
10. Easy Rider soundtrack

Pretty great list. All are great albums IMO, except BS&T and I always thought Santana's first was far from perfect yet very worthwhile anyway although Tom Jones live in Vegas stands out like a sore thumb. Was he the Robbie Williams of his era or what (a little schmaltzier and as for his loins, well... who could compete?)

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Re: Quality Output is at an all time low ....from
Reply #68 - Nov 4^th, 2008 at 3:53am

Ian Billen wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2008 at 10:01pm:

Mr. Gazz,

I realize that Lucida Williams has been around for a while but not at this level of popularity. She was basically unkown until like eight years ago when she kinda broke through to the spotlight is what I was saying.

What I am tryin to get across is I don't proclaim anything based on my "circle of friends" and I don't make up these things from my "own" assumptions just to tell folks here that it's the facts as you indicated. Those things I told you are very true on both accounts. I know you don't see it that way and that is perfectly fine but you can't go on to tell me that things I sometimes say ( only to get scorned for) is simply based all from my own assumptions and my friends opinions because that's simply untrue.

On to more important matters. I will make a deal with you, I certainly will get "Car Wheels On a Gravel Flippin Road". Geeze my Knees if I hear one more person tell me about this fantastic album I am gonna regurgitate my dinner. Don't worry, I know it is at least pretty decent and I will call it like I hear it with an open mind. I have not heard anything from her that was below fair and if it is at least a good album I won't peep a complaint. I do honestly want to hear it though. I always did like "World Without Tears". That's a good song. I don't know the album

But you have to listen to LIONS. I am not a Black Crows fan either and never was. To me they were always too much of a generic Faces/Stones early seventies mix just not nearly as good or authentic.

Enter LIONS. You won't be disappointed. Deal?

By the way, I like Bonnie Raitt a lot but I am no real huge fan. I have three of her albums here. Sounds like you like her more than me.

Ian

Car Wheels will be your cup o' tea if you enjoy country-rock, rootsy music and don't mind a less-than-stellar vocalist (still an effective one is Lucinda). Also, she wasn't really unknown until 8 years ago or even 10 years ago when Car Wheels received some Grammy nods and acclaim. She won a grammy in 1994 actually for best country song I think it was, for Mary Chapin Carpenter's cover of "Passionate Kisses," which was from Lucinda's self-titled '88 release. Also, 1992's Sweet Old World received even more attention and lots of covers, especially the title track which you can find covered by none other than Emmylou Harris on her 1995 "comeback" Wrecking Ball (with Neil Young himself on harmony vocal and harmonica, the whole album produced by Daniel Lanois too).

If you mean unknown from a casual fan standpoint, it wasn't until Car Wheels that anyone paid attention from a buyer's perspective and critics caught on to help propel it. Before that, fellow performers and songwriters sure knew. I recall when she did SNL in 1999, Bill Murray was hosting and introduced her glowingly, something like "Now it's my pleasure to introduce to you, one of America's greatest singer-songwriters today, you're gonna really enjoy her. Lucinda Williams!" Of course, she seemed really nervous or something about the sound threw her off because it wasn't exactly a confident showing as she did a rather basic run-through of "Can't Let Go" and a timid "2 Kool 2 Be Forgotten."

Anyway, that CD eventually went gold I think. She might just one day have a commercial breakthrough too, but my guess is she prefers it the way things are. Robert Christgau seems to love her, having given her albums since 1980 nothing worse than an A-minus rating (A's for West, SOW and Lucinda Williams, A+ for Car Wheels- all of which I agree with, A-minus for Happy Woman Blues, WWT and Essence- though I'd give Essence maybe a B+ since it's too one-dimensionally mellow withot any real big rewards compared to her best stuff). As for the Bonnie Raitt comparison, Bonnie's early stuff was rootsy like Lucinda but only in a blues way. Lucinda was into the whole country and bluegrass thing. Her 1980 LP was like a Loretta Lynn tribute or something, very much "Happy Woman Blues" minus the blues part.

Bonnie Raitt was an artist on a major label from the start, and they took a risk hoping to cash in on the precedent Janis Joplin set but Bonnie wasn't as much a livewire or sexpot so her sound became more commercialized as the 70s wore on until her career hit the skids in the 80s only to be revived by even slicker music on Nick of Time (a good album but overrated thanks to its multitude of hits and Grammys. Still, it was her most well-conceived work of songs till that point. I prefer her next award-winning smash Luck of the Draw and some of her 90s albums). Really, Lucinda and Bonnie don't share much in common. Bonnie Raitt also was a much smoother singer and if she ever put out anything as ragged as Lucinda, her label would've dropped her like a hot potato. 'Nuff said bout all that.

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Re: Quality Output is at an all time low ....from
Reply #69 - Nov 4^th, 2008 at 9:52pm

Prodigal Son wrote on Nov 4^th, 2008 at 3:53am:

[quote author=Ian Billen link=1225258013/50#64 date=1225771318]

Car Wheels will be your cup o' tea if you enjoy country-rock, rootsy music and don't mind a less-than-stellar vocalist (still an effective one is Lucinda). Also, she wasn't really unknown until 8 years ago or even 10 years ago when Car Wheels received some Grammy nods and acclaim. She won a grammy in 1994 actually for best country song I think it was, for Mary Chapin Carpenter's cover of "Passionate Kisses," which was from Lucinda's self-titled '88 release. Also, 1992's Sweet Old World received even more attention and lots of covers, especially the title track which you can find covered by none other than Emmylou Harris on her 1995 "comeback" Wrecking Ball (with Neil Young himself on harmony vocal and harmonica, the whole album produced by Daniel Lanois too).

If you mean unknown from a casual fan standpoint, it wasn't until Car Wheels that anyone paid attention from a buyer's perspective and critics caught on to help propel it. Before that, fellow performers and songwriters sure knew. I recall when she did SNL in 1999, Bill Murray was hosting and introduced her glowingly, something like "Now it's my pleasure to introduce to you, one of America's greatest singer-songwriters today, you're gonna really enjoy her. Lucinda Williams!" Of course, she seemed really nervous or something about the sound threw her off because it wasn't exactly a confident showing as she did a rather basic run-through of "Can't Let Go" and a timid "2 Kool 2 Be Forgotten."

Anyway, that CD eventually went gold I think. She might just one day have a commercial breakthrough too, but my guess is she prefers it the way things are. Robert Christgau seems to love her, having given her albums since 1980 nothing worse than an A-minus rating (A's for West, SOW and Lucinda Williams, A+ for Car Wheels- all of which I agree with, A-minus for Happy Woman Blues, WWT and Essence- though I'd give Essence maybe a B+ since it's too one-dimensionally mellow withot any real big rewards compared to her best stuff). As for the Bonnie Raitt comparison, Bonnie's early stuff was rootsy like Lucinda but only in a blues way. Lucinda was into the whole country and bluegrass thing. Her 1980 LP was like a Loretta Lynn tribute or something, very much "Happy Woman Blues" minus the blues part.

Bonnie Raitt was an artist on a major label from the start, and they took a risk hoping to cash in on the precedent Janis Joplin set but Bonnie wasn't as much a livewire or sexpot so her sound became more commercialized as the 70s wore on until her career hit the skids in the 80s only to be revived by even slicker music on Nick of Time (a good album but overrated thanks to its multitude of hits and Grammys. Still, it was her most well-conceived work of songs till that point. I prefer her next award-winning smash Luck of the Draw and some of her 90s albums). Really, Lucinda and Bonnie don't share much in common. Bonnie Raitt also was a much smoother singer and if she ever put out anything as ragged as Lucinda, her label would've dropped her like a hot potato. 'Nuff said bout all that.

Prodical Son,

I wasn't stating they had exact upbringings. I wasn't stating that they had every single career move alike. What I was saying is they are both older woman that resurged in their later years. Both sing about the same things. Both are Contemporary country with a touch of rock n roll and some folk influence. As well, I think they sound similar in terms of instrumentation, as well as singing, and their song writing.

Many feel that Lucinda Williams is similar to Bonnie Raitt.

Many feel Lucinda Williams kinda stole Bonnie Raitts thunder as does the BBC online. In fact the BBC recently went as far as stating Bonnie Raitt should "eat her heart out".
See Here:
http://74.125.45.104/search?q=cache:sBCWNhhdw5EJ:www.bbc.co.uk/nottingham/music/...

Heres a writers blog talking about how Lucinda Williams took Bonnie Raitt's spot as an older country/rock n roll Queen.
http://74.125.45.104/search?q=cache:A2WMgG6yEu0J:whatwasitanyway.blogspot.com/20...

Here.. The New York Times validates my point in saying the two artists had a very similar mid-career breakthroughs that were in the same vain (which is the point I was making when comparing their careers):
http://74.125.45.104/search?q=cache:4-vz0qAMUeQJ:query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage....

Here, this writer says Lucinda Williams sounds so similar to Raitt that she could be her "Louisiana born sister":
http://74.125.45.104/search?q=cache:xwjOyZXfykAJ:www.salon.com/ent/music/feature...

So I think you have to admit, many see it the way I do. It isn't just me and the people I know that feel as though Lucinda Williams is an updated version, and or is kinda billed as a Bonnie Raitt like artist. It isn't just me who feels they are quite similar in style and as well perception. My point was that this comparison is a very common thought and it is.

*I wouldn't make a big deal and show this point by point, link by link if I really felt the folks here who so often disagree really felt this way. I honestly feel that most here will disagree with almost anything I say regardless of what they really felt so I decided to include some sources to back up my arguement.

Ian

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« Last Edit: Nov 4^th, 2008 at 10:08pm by Ian Billen »

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Prodigal Son

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Re: Quality Output is at an all time low ....from
Reply #70 - Nov 5^th, 2008 at 12:57am

Ian Billen wrote on Nov 4^th, 2008 at 9:52pm:

Prodigal Son wrote on Nov 4^th, 2008 at 3:53am:

[quote author=Ian Billen link=1225258013/50#64 date=1225771318]

Car Wheels will be your cup o' tea if you enjoy country-rock, rootsy music and don't mind a less-than-stellar vocalist (still an effective one is Lucinda). Also, she wasn't really unknown until 8 years ago or even 10 years ago when Car Wheels received some Grammy nods and acclaim. She won a grammy in 1994 actually for best country song I think it was, for Mary Chapin Carpenter's cover of "Passionate Kisses," which was from Lucinda's self-titled '88 release. Also, 1992's Sweet Old World received even more attention and lots of covers, especially the title track which you can find covered by none other than Emmylou Harris on her 1995 "comeback" Wrecking Ball (with Neil Young himself on harmony vocal and harmonica, the whole album produced by Daniel Lanois too).

If you mean unknown from a casual fan standpoint, it wasn't until Car Wheels that anyone paid attention from a buyer's perspective and critics caught on to help propel it. Before that, fellow performers and songwriters sure knew. I recall when she did SNL in 1999, Bill Murray was hosting and introduced her glowingly, something like "Now it's my pleasure to introduce to you, one of America's greatest singer-songwriters today, you're gonna really enjoy her. Lucinda Williams!" Of course, she seemed really nervous or something about the sound threw her off because it wasn't exactly a confident showing as she did a rather basic run-through of "Can't Let Go" and a timid "2 Kool 2 Be Forgotten."

Anyway, that CD eventually went gold I think. She might just one day have a commercial breakthrough too, but my guess is she prefers it the way things are. Robert Christgau seems to love her, having given her albums since 1980 nothing worse than an A-minus rating (A's for West, SOW and Lucinda Williams, A+ for Car Wheels- all of which I agree with, A-minus for Happy Woman Blues, WWT and Essence- though I'd give Essence maybe a B+ since it's too one-dimensionally mellow withot any real big rewards compared to her best stuff). As for the Bonnie Raitt comparison, Bonnie's early stuff was rootsy like Lucinda but only in a blues way. Lucinda was into the whole country and bluegrass thing. Her 1980 LP was like a Loretta Lynn tribute or something, very much "Happy Woman Blues" minus the blues part.

Bonnie Raitt was an artist on a major label from the start, and they took a risk hoping to cash in on the precedent Janis Joplin set but Bonnie wasn't as much a livewire or sexpot so her sound became more commercialized as the 70s wore on until her career hit the skids in the 80s only to be revived by even slicker music on Nick of Time (a good album but overrated thanks to its multitude of hits and Grammys. Still, it was her most well-conceived work of songs till that point. I prefer her next award-winning smash Luck of the Draw and some of her 90s albums). Really, Lucinda and Bonnie don't share much in common. Bonnie Raitt also was a much smoother singer and if she ever put out anything as ragged as Lucinda, her label would've dropped her like a hot potato. 'Nuff said bout all that.

Prodical Son,

I wasn't stating they had exact upbringings. I wasn't stating that they had every single career move alike. What I was saying is they are both older woman that resurged in their later years. Both sing about the same things. Both are Contemporary country with a touch of rock n roll and some folk influence. As well, I think they sound similar in terms of instrumentation, as well as singing, and their song writing.

Many feel that Lucinda Williams is similar to Bonnie Raitt.

Many feel Lucinda Williams kinda stole Bonnie Raitts thunder as does the BBC online. In fact the BBC recently went as far as stating Bonnie Raitt should "eat her heart out".
See Here:
http://74.125.45.104/search?q=cache:sBCWNhhdw5EJ:www.bbc.co.uk/nottingham/music/...

Heres a writers blog talking about how Lucinda Williams took Bonnie Raitt's spot as an older country/rock n roll Queen.
http://74.125.45.104/search?q=cache:A2WMgG6yEu0J:whatwasitanyway.blogspot.com/20...

Here.. The New York Times validates my point in saying the two artists had a very similar mid-career breakthroughs that were in the same vain (which is the point I was making when comparing their careers):
http://74.125.45.104/search?q=cache:4-vz0qAMUeQJ:query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage....

Here, this writer says Lucinda Williams sounds so similar to Raitt that she could be her "Louisiana born sister":
http://74.125.45.104/search?q=cache:xwjOyZXfykAJ:www.salon.com/ent/music/feature...

So I think you have to admit, many see it the way I do. It isn't just me and the people I know that feel as though Lucinda Williams is an updated version, and or is kinda billed as a Bonnie Raitt like artist. It isn't just me who feels they are quite similar in style and as well perception. My point was that this comparison is a very common thought and it is.

*I wouldn't make a big deal and show this point by point, link by link if I really felt the folks here who so often disagree really felt this way. I honestly feel that most here will disagree with almost anything I say regardless of what they really felt so I decided to include some sources to back up my arguement.

Ian

Well alright, you do have some support. But many see it like me as well. Personally, I don't see them as that similar. They don't sound alike vocally and Lucinda is pure Southern while Bonnie dabbles in the Mississipi but ultimately found success from a bluesy Californian rock. She's more "El Lay" than Lucinda has ever been or ever will be. Bonnie's like a more polished, easy-on-the-ears kind of artist compared to Lucinda. I realize that a song like "I Can't Make You Love Me" is not symbolic of all of Raitt's work, but it's definitely much more adult contemporary than Lucinda.

I guess I can't argue with the "She stole her thunder" stuff since I guess you could call it a passing of the torch. However, Bonnie Raitt was still just 40 when Nick of Time came out while when Car Wheels hit, Lucinda was 46 so it was a bit more advanced. Plus Bonnie's was a comeback. She had been in the music spotlight since age 21. Lucinda's was a breakthrough. Bonnie had had a few top 10 LPs and I believe one top ten hit with a cover of Del Shannon's "Runaway" (not a very good cover in the minds of many though). She was much more well known when Nick of Time became a big hit.

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ijwthstd Rocks Off Regular Offline Rocks Off Rules You Bastards Posts: 1,047	Re: Quality Output is at an all time low ....from Reply #71 - Nov 5^th, 2008 at 1:23am I ordered an advance promo copy of Kelli Ali's "Rocking Horse" off Ebay. I don't have it yet.
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Ian Billen

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Re: Quality Output is at an all time low ....from
Reply #72 - Nov 5^th, 2008 at 1:29am

Prodical Son Wrote:

"Well alright, you do have some support. But many see it like me as well. Personally, I don't see them as that similar. They don't sound alike vocally and Lucinda is pure Southern while Bonnie dabbles in the Mississipi but ultimately found success from a bluesy Californian rock. She's more "El Lay" than Lucinda has ever been or ever will be. Bonnie's like a more polished, easy-on-the-ears kind of artist compared to Lucinda. I realize that a song like "I Can't Make You Love Me" is not symbolic of all of Raitt's work, but it's definitely much more adult contemporary than Lucinda.

I guess I can't argue with the "She stole her thunder" stuff since I guess you could call it a passing of the torch. However, Bonnie Raitt was still just 40 when Nick of Time came out while when Car Wheels hit, Lucinda was 46 so it was a bit more advanced. Plus Bonnie's was a comeback. She had been in the music spotlight since age 21. Lucinda's was a breakthrough. Bonnie had had a few top 10 LPs and I believe one top ten hit with a cover of Del Shannon's "Runaway" (not a very good cover in the minds of many though). She was much more well known when Nick of Time became a big hit."

______________________________

I will be honest. I actually do look forward to giving a good listen to "Car Wheel on a Gravel Road" because I know I will like it from what I have heard off it. I heard a few songs from it in passing before but can't remember them except that I thought they were good. Another part of me is tired of hearing how great it is lol (not from you

, just in general and over all). But if people feel that way then they should definitely voice their opinion. I may feel it is a great record too who knows?

Ian

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