Ian Billen wrote on Sep 5^th, 2008 at 1:04pm:


well, its certainly not a 'fact' ("My suppositions are more fact than suppositions.)  

Ian Billen wrote on Sep 5^th, 2008 at 1:04pm:



It also means that you dont have any insight into what theyre doing either because you dont have a single fact to base your 'suppositions' on.
.

Ian Billen wrote on Sep 5^th, 2008 at 1:04pm:



Not true. I distinctly remember a thread on this board in the summer of 2004 that it had been reported that the Stones were recording in Mick's house..this was even before the story broke about Charlie's cancer. Check the archives. It turned out to be a very brief get together without much details emerging of any recordings being made.


Ian Billen wrote on Sep 5^th, 2008 at 1:04pm:



Wrong


Ian Billen wrote on Sep 5^th, 2008 at 1:04pm:



Wrong


Ian Billen wrote on Sep 5^th, 2008 at 1:04pm:



Wrong.

Ian Billen wrote on Sep 5^th, 2008 at 1:04pm:


Wrong

Ian Billen wrote on Sep 5^th, 2008 at 1:04pm:




No they dont. They work on songs that for the most part they had already started separately. You'll be telling me next that Keith flew to Australia in 1969 to co-write 'Brown sugar'.

Ian Billen wrote on Sep 5^th, 2008 at 1:04pm:



I was unaware that he was forbidden from writing/recording at home without Keith being there. So, youre saying that the numerous songs on ABB that were originally written for "Alfie" or around that period (eg Streets of Love, Laugh i Nearly Died, Biggest Mistake etc) were written with Keith? Rubbish.

Ian Billen wrote on Sep 5^th, 2008 at 1:04pm:



No..its true. Mick and Keith for the most part (I did specify 'with very few exceptions') havent written together much since the early 70s, around the time when they ceased to live close to each other (in the late 60s they both lived in Cheyne Walk in London). 'Steel Wheels' for example was a rare case of them spending a couple lof weeks together and creating songs from scratch (although there were also several songs which pre-dated that songwriting session, such as "Almost hear you sigh' which Keith had cut for 'Talk is cheap'). Generally, they write separately, then get together and work on what they have. they may occasionally write something together from the start, but its not that common. How the hell can you write together with someone who lives 3,000 miles away and who you see maybe once a year when theres no touring activity? Are you suggesting they dont write until such a time when they make a date to get together? Nonsense. Both of them have studios in their home. Thats the whole point of having home studios - so you can write and demo stuff as and when the inspiration comes to you. I know a few people who have been lucky enough to be in Keith's basement studio in recent years while he's been working on songs. He hardly needs Mick's input to do that.



You might find this page informative. To sum it up, it doesnt exactly suggest that Mick and Keith grind out songs together from scratch Brill Building style. Nor did Lennon and McCartney of course.

http://www.timeisonourside.com/songwriting.html#THE%20CRAFT%20AND%20THE

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Like most relationships, you spend less time together as you get older when other interests get in the way. Especially women and 'stimulants'.

Mick and Keith's working relationship has never been the same since around 1971 when Mick got married , the band left England as tax exiles, and Keith got deeper into his addictions.

Its no coincidence that the quality of their songs started to dip shortly afterwards and has only sporadically reached those heights since.

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Do you mean write together?

Not really. Although on DW it was worse than before because Mick basically brought next to nothing to the sessions with him in terms of songs.  Most of the songs on that album were written by Keith & Ronnie.

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They did indeed (I mentioned that above). They spent a couple of weeks together to see how things progressed as they hadnt hardly worked together or seen eye to eye for years. However, some of the songs from that record did pre-date those sessions. At the time it was considered quite unusual for them to work 'nose to nose' like that as it hadnt happened in a long time. It hasnt happened much since. BTB for example was basically two abandoned solo projects which ended up being a Stones album instead. Probably the ultimate example of a lack of collaboration - they even worked on their songs in different studios at the same time.

Ian Billen wrote on Sep 5^th, 2008 at 1:04pm:


Get your facts Ian for gods sake... 
 
They had a meeting in early June 2004, posted here on June 9: 
http://www.rocksoff.org/Archives/06-21-2004/194930-1.html ;
 
 
And the first recordings were on Mick's house in September 2004, posted here by Gazza on Sept. 25: 
http://www.rocksoff.org/Archives/10-07-2004/203041-1.html ;
 
 
September 6, 2008 now and we have NOTHING yet, not even a fake rumor.

IAN,WE ALL WISH WE COULD SHARE IN YOUR EXCITEMENT BUT IT'S NOT HAPPENING AS I TYPE.

I THINK THEY'LL TALK AFTER THE NEW YEAR
I WOULDNT BE SURPRISED IF MICK DID ANOTHER SOLO RCORD OR WORKED WITH DAVE STEWART ON ANOTHER SOUNDTRACK BEFORE THEY START RECORDING AGAIN.

THAT IS AN EDUCATED GUESS.
I COULD BE WRONG-BECAUSE IT'S ALL SUPPOSITION.

I THINK IT'S PLAIN THAT MICK DOES NOT ENJOY SPENDING A LOT OF TIME WITH KEITH BECAUSE HE IS SO MOTIVATED TO MAXIMIZE TIME,WHILE KEITH WANTS TO LET THINGS HAPPEN.

Ok. Now let's put the debate of whether they are working together now aside for a second.

I had a thought. Should they start fresh with all new material as far as this one goes (whenever it goes) or should they look over and try and work up stuff from their previous few albums that never got finished or had the chance to come to fruition?

I love the idea of starting all new. A clean slate and a brand new affair. But then again, in the past they took concepts/rough ideas and worked them into great songs for their current project. Take for instance "Start Me Up".

Do you think these days are gone for them, if so should they be? Or should they try some of the digging through their previous tapes at least from say ABB and BTB to try and find things and work on or take into a new direction like they used to do?

I surely would not want them to totally concentrate on their previous ideas. I'd certainly like some brand new ideas and all fresh material with a fresh head in there as well (even though we'd never know the difference of what was a previous concept or rough track as to what was brand spanking new when listening to it of coarse).

I am not sure? What do you think is a good idea for them? All brand new stuff or do you think they should look into their last few albums sessions? Or both?


Ian

erikjjf wrote on Sep 6^th, 2008 at 2:29am:


_______________________

Excellent. Thank you. If this website is correct, they were doing pre-production on the stuff (writing together) as early as June of 04. Then more pre-production in August, and September at Mick's in France and as well in the Caribbean at Mick's. According to this website the actual recording of the material did not start until November of 04 at Mick's in France. So It seems they were working/writing through the summer on and off if they started actually recording the stuff in November of 04.

They wrote basically through the summer of 04 and worked the tunes up, then actual recording started in November of 04. This is not far off and is pretty close to what I stated earlier.  Maybe I can go on a rant, call the people who disagreed with me all kinds of names, and tell them they are totally insane. Or maybe I can just be cool and discuss this topic or others further now that this is cleared up (thank's to you) for us..... (hint-hint-hint).


Ian

erikjjf wrote on Sep 6^th, 2008 at 3:10am:


____________________

Yes, I whole-heartedly agree with both you and Gazza. In fact it is concrete and solidified. They do write a ton of stuff from things they started or wrote on their own. Although ....I just can't see these two being together for months at a time working on songs and so on and so little and/or very few numbers "from scratch" coming out of it as some people believe. I am just not seeing it. I mean, don't you think the two in all this period of time didn't start and write a good number of tunes right then and there? When I say "from scratch" I mean with no previous material of a track or notion of a song.

Ian

erikjjf wrote on Sep 6^th, 2008 at 3:10am:



BINGO!

Ian Billen wrote on Sep 6^th, 2008 at 2:10am:


i prefer they start fresh myself...all the leftovers can come later.

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Yes. Keep the leftovers 'as is' for the Universal re-issues!

However, they could do that and still use some basic ideas for new songs. They do that on most records anyway, including the last one as there was some unused and reworked Mick solo material on it.

In the end it doesnt matter. The end justifies the means. Tattoo You, by rights, should have ended up being a dreadful album, going by the way it was conceived. To their credit they pulled out something of a masterpiece.

Yeah !

Get back into the studio Stones

Streets of Love part 2,  can't wait, the excitements almost unbearable