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Saint Sway Rocks Off Regular Offline Rocks Off Rules You Bastards Posts: 2,356	Undercover rocks!! Why did it bomb? Jun 2^nd, 2009 at 10:20am Should of been a big hit coming off the heels of their biggest tour ever at the time (81/82) and biggest single (Start Me Up) boys should of easily been able to continue on with world domination.... so WTF happened???
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Throwaway

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Re: Undercover rocks!! Why did it bomb?
Reply #1 - Jun 2^nd, 2009 at 10:48am

Drum machines, video banned from MTV, inevitable MJ/KR split

However, I really like the album. The singles are good, and Tie You Up, Too Tough, and It Must Be Hell rock hard. Feel On Baby and All the Way Down are above average too. Only Pretty Beat Up and Too Much Blood are below average, but they still have their moments as novelties.

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Mel Belli Rocks Off Regular Offline Rocks Off Rules You Bastards Posts: 1,298	Re: Undercover rocks!! Why did it bomb? Reply #2 - Jun 2^nd, 2009 at 12:02pm Sway, I remember you saying that the album was MK/KR's last genuine attempt to start from scratch, shake things up, etc., but that it was ultimately a failure. Have you warmed to it over the years?...
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Lazy Bones Rocks Off Regular Offline Posts: 385 Canada Gender:	Re: Undercover rocks!! Why did it bomb? Reply #3 - Jun 2^nd, 2009 at 12:12pm Saint Sway wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2009 at 10:20am: so WTF happened???
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Saint Sway

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Re: Undercover rocks!! Why did it bomb?
Reply #4 - Jun 2^nd, 2009 at 12:18pm

Mel Belli wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2009 at 12:02pm:

Sway, I remember you saying that the album was MK/KR's last genuine attempt to start from scratch, shake things up, etc., but that it was ultimately a failure. Have you warmed to it over the years?...

Both. I still think that it was the last time they were edgy or relevent and I think it rocks. The guitars are fierce - as evident in Too Tough. But its also widely regarded as both a commercial and artistic failure.

my question here is why did it tank despite it coming off the heels of such a huge success??

I know what happened after Undercover. It just seems that Undercover should of been received better. Is it bc they didnt tour to support it??

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Throwaway Rocks Off Regular Offline Posts: 826 MD Gender:	Re: Undercover rocks!! Why did it bomb? Reply #5 - Jun 2^nd, 2009 at 12:37pm Remember also that Tattoo You was a great album, but you can't really see the artistic step from TY to UC because of all the outtakes on TY - Undercover was bound to be completely different. Some Girls was really the last album prior to Undercover on which the Stones wrote and recorded fresh, new material.
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Re: Undercover rocks!! Why did it bomb?
Reply #6 - Jun 2^nd, 2009 at 12:40pm

It's always been a favorite of mine...it was the no.3 UK album of 1983...and no. 4 in the TOP 200 BB charts...2 hot singles...2 top 10 CLUB Single

Like above, you have MJ...and others like Duran Duran, Depeche Mode, Van Halen, Billy Idol, ZZ Top, COUNTLESS One-Hit-Wonders, and the rest of the MTV bands tearing it up...I think the album fared well with all of that...I think that the MTV thing, threw them for a bit of a loop...it was like, EWWWW, the Stones are 40 and OLD!!!. All these other bands were young, pretty, and dressed in neon, Day-Glo, and sporting mullets...

I think their response was that HORRIBLE cover for Dirty Work

I wonder what the sales figures were in 83 and 84 as well as TTD? Anyone??

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Re: Undercover rocks!! Why did it bomb?
Reply #7 - Jun 2^nd, 2009 at 12:45pm

Saint Sway wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2009 at 10:20am:

Should of been a big hit coming off the heels of their biggest tour ever at the time (81/82) and biggest single (Start Me Up)

boys should of easily been able to continue on with world domination....

so WTF happened???

Simple answer. They didn't tour behind it. That, plus the fact that with the dawn of the MTV era, by 1983-84 guitar driven rock n roll had passed it's commercial peak

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Saint Sway Rocks Off Regular Offline Rocks Off Rules You Bastards Posts: 2,356	Re: Undercover rocks!! Why did it bomb? Reply #8 - Jun 2^nd, 2009 at 1:06pm seems like they were pretty aggressive with marketing the album to the video generation. Those were really pretty high budget and edgy music videos for the time.
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Gazza Unholy Trinity Admin Offline Rat Bastid "We piss anywhere, man.." Posts: 13,186 Belfast, UK Gender:	Re: Undercover rocks!! Why did it bomb? Reply #9 - Jun 2^nd, 2009 at 1:28pm Edgy isnt the word. Must be somewhat unique for a band to make three videos for their three singles from one album - and have every single one of them banned for one reason or another.....
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Re: Undercover rocks!! Why did it bomb?
Reply #10 - Jun 2^nd, 2009 at 1:38pm

Gazza wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2009 at 1:28pm:

Edgy isnt the word. Must be somewhat unique for a band to make three videos for their three singles from one album - and have every single one of them banned for one reason or another.....

perhaps they were really trying stick with the trusty Oldham marketing plan and play up their rep as the notorious "bad boys" or I guess one can read between the lines that Mick must of slept with the CEO of MTV's wife

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CrissCrossMind

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Re: Undercover rocks!! Why did it bomb?
Reply #11 - Jun 2^nd, 2009 at 1:59pm

the Band was almost over by the time they recorded Undercover ...
Keith was trying to install Ronnie as a co-writer??
the first Undercover (single) lacked any real power riffs ..
never got dat Stones groove thing going ... too political ...
the whole record seems to be Jagger 'growing up in public' ...
lots of "bile" ... Keith even thought it was DARK at the time ...
the band was falling apart ... just a mess ... undercover of the night ...
seemed a bit odd at best ... the "soul" was missing ... CCM :funny

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Re: Undercover rocks!! Why did it bomb?
Reply #12 - Jun 2^nd, 2009 at 2:04pm

The last real Stones album. Not properly promoted and not very commercially accessible either. This album still isn't treated favorably, at least not by general music fans. Too bad, the good songs are so fucking great and the strength those is why this will always be a classic to me and a favorite of mine.

Would love to hear a live take on Too Much Blood, perhaps with the band riding out to the B stage and firehoses shooting fake blood on the crowd.

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Re: Undercover rocks!! Why did it bomb?
Reply #13 - Jun 2^nd, 2009 at 2:05pm

CrissCrossMind wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2009 at 1:59pm:

the Band was almost over by the time they recorded Undercover ...
Keith was trying to install Ronnie as a co-writer??
the first Undercover (single) lacked any real power riffs ..
never got dat Stones groove thing going ... too political ...
the whole record seems to be Jagger 'growing up in public' ...
lots of "bile" ... Keith even thought it was DARK at the time ...
the band was falling apart ... just a mess ... undercover of the night ...
seemed a bit odd at best ... the "soul" was missing ... CCM :funny

I liked the bile, nastiness and sheer attitude that dripped from it.

The title song saw the band be conscious of the darker side of what was going on in the world for the first time in over a decade - never a bad thing.

I thought it was a terrific first single. Very funky with a lead guitar part that ripped your head off. Even the music press in the UK loved it (although they tore the album to shreds as was normal for Stones releases at the time)

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Saint Sway Rocks Off Regular Offline Rocks Off Rules You Bastards Posts: 2,356	Re: Undercover rocks!! Why did it bomb? Reply #14 - Jun 2^nd, 2009 at 2:12pm ijwthstd wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2009 at 2:04pm: Would love to hear a live take on Too Much Blood, perhaps with the band riding out to the B stage and firehoses shooting fake blood on the crowd.
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Saint Sway Rocks Off Regular Offline Rocks Off Rules You Bastards Posts: 2,356	Re: Undercover rocks!! Why did it bomb? Reply #15 - Jun 2^nd, 2009 at 2:22pm
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Re: Undercover rocks!! Why did it bomb?
Reply #16 - Jun 2^nd, 2009 at 3:51pm

it was the last real blast of stones for me.
the single was brilliant: funky, edgy and political and the rest was eclectic and dirty and sexually-charged....
but as others have pointed out,
it was a different era....
TY seemed a long way away and some girls was another world away from the MTV generation/
this was when the stones suddenly seemed old to most people.
they were no longer the bad boys....
but the album was the last glimpse of authentic, classic stones....
all the way down is a jewel>

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Re: Undercover rocks!! Why did it bomb?
Reply #17 - Jun 2^nd, 2009 at 4:34pm

"Feel On Baby" was a real sleeping gem for me on that album - a greatly underappreciated track.

The dub version that was the B-side of 'Undercover of the Night' 12-inch was one of the very few occasions when they put out one of those dub/remix efforts that actually worked.

Of course, the geniuses behind the abortion that was 'Rarities Vol 1' chose to ignore it and instead 'treated' us to the universally unloved dross of the 'NY Mix' of Harlem Shuffle and other meaningless, Stones-free wankery.

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Saint Sway Rocks Off Regular Offline Rocks Off Rules You Bastards Posts: 2,356	Re: Undercover rocks!! Why did it bomb? Reply #18 - Jun 2^nd, 2009 at 4:52pm Harlem Shuffle was another moment where they dropped the ball. Poor choice for a lead single and an embarrassing video with Paula Abdul cartoon cats the B-Side - Had It With You should of been the 1st single - the A-Side and Shuffle should of been the flip. Keep the cover songs as the B-Sides
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Re: Undercover rocks!! Why did it bomb?
Reply #19 - Jun 2^nd, 2009 at 5:05pm

I dont think its any coincidence that the only Stones album not represented on 40 Licks was the only one in the last 40+ years to have a cover song as the lead single. Little Red Rooster was a glaring omission too, considering it was a #1.

Methinks a certain two people were highly influenced by maximising publishing royalties when they submitted their song choices for inclusion....

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CrissCrossMind

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Re: Undercover rocks!! Why did it bomb?
Reply #20 - Jun 2^nd, 2009 at 5:17pm

"I liked the bile, nastiness and sheer attitude that dripped from it" ... well I've never had an attitude ... but that would describe their best work ... which Undercover is not ... I can't explain what raw rocking music is ... but I know it when I hear it ... the single just never turned my clock ... not sure why ... maybe the drum machine? the echo? the techno bits? ... Keith did not seem inspired on this one ... the whole CD seemed to be recorded with a filter to keep all warmth & human touch off it ... it was the first Rolling Stones album I did not buy on it's first day of release since Aftermath ... but the wife bought it by the weekend for me ... over all not a bad effort ... Dirty Work remains the all time low point ... this one added to the fire driving the decline ...

MTV generation may have viewed the Stones as "old" ... but Mick felt the pain of facing a "mature" future in a more intense way as reflected by the "bile" ... all over Undercover ... Keith was settling into a wonderful marriage that most likely saved his life ... but the "edge" was off by then & thank you Patti ... but living with a woman & children is no way to make rock & roll!!!!!!!!!!!
Perverted Mick

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glencar Ex Member	Re: Undercover rocks!! Why did it bomb? Reply #21 - Jun 2^nd, 2009 at 6:39pm Great album but really, excepting VL, aren't they all?
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open-g Rocks Off Regular Offline Silence is golden, Duct tape is silver Posts: 617 Berlin Gender:	Re: Undercover rocks!! Why did it bomb? Reply #22 - Jun 2^nd, 2009 at 9:13pm "yea, every time I drive through the crossroads I get scared, there's a bloke running round with a fucking chain saw. Oh! Oh! oh No, he's gonna cut off, Oh no. Don't saw off me leg, don't saw off me arm." ” Undercover of the Night
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Mel Belli

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Re: Undercover rocks!! Why did it bomb?
Reply #23 - Jun 2^nd, 2009 at 10:19pm

Saint Sway wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2009 at 4:52pm:

Harlem Shuffle was another moment where they dropped the ball. Poor choice for a lead single and an embarrassing video with Paula Abdul cartoon cats

the B-Side - Had It With You should of been the 1st single - the A-Side and Shuffle should of been the flip. Keep the cover songs as the B-Sides

"Harlem Shuffle" was at least commercially successful, wasn't it? A Top 5 U.S. single, if I'm not mistaken -- the next-to-last of their career ("Mixed Emotions" being the last).

And, carrying on in the Undercover tradition, *that* video, with its crude racial tropes, was yet another mini-scandal.

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Zack Rocks Off Regular Offline Chiba Face Rules You Bastards! Posts: 1,727 Dakar Gender:	Re: Undercover rocks!! Why did it bomb? Reply #24 - Jun 3^rd, 2009 at 5:08am I did not realize that Keith actually wielded a chain saw in the Too Much Blood video.
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