Should of been a big hit coming off the heels of their biggest tour ever at the time (81/82) and biggest single (Start Me Up)

boys should of easily been able to continue on with world domination....

so WTF happened???

Drum machines, video banned from MTV, inevitable MJ/KR split

However, I really like the album.  The singles are good, and Tie You Up, Too Tough, and It Must Be Hell rock hard.  Feel On Baby and All the Way Down are above average too.  Only Pretty Beat Up and Too Much Blood are below average, but they still have their moments as novelties.

Sway, I remember you saying that the album was MK/KR's last genuine attempt to start from scratch, shake things up, etc., but that it was ultimately a failure. Have you warmed to it over the years?...

Saint Sway wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2009 at 10:20am:

so WTF happened???

http://www.motherjones.com/files/legacy/riff_blog/mojo-photo-thriller.jpg

Mel Belli wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2009 at 12:02pm:

Sway, I remember you saying that the album was MK/KR's last genuine attempt to start from scratch, shake things up, etc., but that it was ultimately a failure. Have you warmed to it over the years?...

Both. I still think that it was the last time they were edgy or relevent and I think it rocks. The guitars are fierce - as evident in Too Tough. But its also widely regarded as both a commercial and artistic failure.

my question here is why did it tank despite it coming off the heels of such a huge success??

I know what happened after Undercover. It just seems that Undercover should of been received better. Is it bc they didnt tour to support it??

Remember also that Tattoo You was a great album, but you can't really see the artistic step from TY to UC because of all the outtakes on TY - Undercover was bound to be completely different.  Some Girls was really the last album prior to Undercover on which the Stones wrote and recorded fresh, new material.

It's always been a favorite of mine...it was the no.3 UK album of 1983...and no. 4 in the TOP 200 BB charts...2 hot singles...2 top 10 CLUB Single



Like above, you have MJ...and others like Duran Duran, Depeche Mode, Van Halen, Billy Idol, ZZ Top, COUNTLESS One-Hit-Wonders,  and the rest of the MTV bands tearing it up...I think the album fared well with all of that...I think that the MTV thing, threw them for a bit of a loop...it was like, EWWWW, the Stones are 40 and OLD!!!. All these other bands were young, pretty, and dressed in neon, Day-Glo, and sporting mullets...

I think their response was that HORRIBLE cover for Dirty Work

I wonder what the sales figures were in 83 and 84 as well as TTD?  Anyone??

Saint Sway wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2009 at 10:20am:

Should of been a big hit coming off the heels of their biggest tour ever at the time (81/82) and biggest single (Start Me Up) boys should of easily been able to continue on with world domination.... so WTF happened???

Simple answer. They didn't tour behind it. That, plus the fact that with the dawn of the MTV era, by 1983-84 guitar driven rock n roll had passed it's commercial peak

seems like they were pretty aggressive with marketing the album to the video generation. Those were really pretty high budget and edgy music videos for the time.

Edgy isnt the word. Must be somewhat unique for a band to make three videos for their three singles from one album - and have every single one of them banned for one reason or another.....

Gazza wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2009 at 1:28pm:

Edgy isnt the word. Must be somewhat unique for a band to make three videos for their three singles from one album - and have every single one of them banned for one reason or another.....

perhaps they were really trying stick with the trusty Oldham marketing plan and play up their rep as the notorious "bad boys" or I guess one can read between the lines that Mick must of slept with the CEO of MTV's wife

the Band was almost over by the time they recorded Undercover ...
Keith was trying to install Ronnie as a co-writer??
the first Undercover (single) lacked any real power riffs ..
never got dat Stones groove thing going ... too political ...
the whole record seems to be Jagger 'growing up in public' ...
lots of "bile" ... Keith even thought it was DARK at the time ...
the band was falling apart ... just a mess ... undercover of the night ...
seemed a bit odd at best ... the "soul" was missing ... CCM  :funny

The last real Stones album. Not properly promoted and not very commercially accessible either. This album still isn't treated favorably, at least not by general music fans. Too bad, the good songs are so fucking great and the strength those is why this will always be a classic to me and a favorite of mine.

Would love to hear a live take on Too Much Blood, perhaps with the band riding out to the B stage and firehoses shooting fake blood on the crowd.

CrissCrossMind wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2009 at 1:59pm:

the Band was almost over by the time they recorded Undercover ... Keith was trying to install Ronnie as a co-writer?? the first Undercover (single) lacked any real power riffs .. never got dat Stones groove thing going ... too political ... the whole record seems to be Jagger 'growing up in public' ... lots of "bile" ... Keith even thought it was DARK at the time ... the band was falling apart ... just a mess ... undercover of the night ... seemed a bit odd at best ... the "soul" was missing ... CCM  :funny

I liked the bile, nastiness and sheer attitude that dripped from it.

The title song saw the band be conscious of the darker side of what was going on in the world for the first time in over a decade - never a bad thing.

I thought it was a terrific first single. Very funky with a lead guitar part that ripped your head off. Even the music press in the UK loved it (although they tore the album to shreds as was normal for Stones releases at the time)

ijwthstd wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2009 at 2:04pm:

Would love to hear a live take on Too Much Blood, perhaps with the band riding out to the B stage and firehoses shooting fake blood on the crowd.

http://oooiviooo.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/gwar.jpg

http://991.com/newGallery/Rolling-Stones-Too-Much-Blood-19088.jpg

it was the last real blast of stones for me.
the single was brilliant: funky, edgy and political and the rest was eclectic and dirty and sexually-charged....
but as others have pointed out,
it was a different era....
TY seemed a long way away and some girls was another world away from the MTV generation/
this was when the stones suddenly seemed old to most people.
they were no longer the bad boys....
but the album was the last glimpse of authentic, classic stones....
all the way down is a jewel>

"Feel On Baby" was a real sleeping gem for me on that album - a greatly underappreciated track.

The dub version that was the B-side of 'Undercover of the Night' 12-inch  was one of the very few occasions when they put out one of those dub/remix efforts that actually worked.

Of course, the geniuses behind the abortion that was 'Rarities Vol 1' chose to ignore it and instead 'treated' us to the universally unloved dross of the 'NY Mix' of Harlem Shuffle and other meaningless, Stones-free wankery.

Harlem Shuffle was another moment where they dropped the ball. Poor choice for a lead single and an embarrassing video with Paula Abdul cartoon cats

the B-Side - Had It With You should of been the 1st single - the A-Side and Shuffle should of been the flip. Keep the cover songs as the B-Sides

I dont think its any coincidence that the only Stones album not represented on 40 Licks was the only one in the last 40+ years to have a cover song as the lead single.  Little Red Rooster was a glaring omission too, considering it was a #1.

Methinks a certain two people were highly influenced by maximising publishing royalties when they submitted their song choices for inclusion....

"I liked the bile, nastiness and sheer attitude that dripped from it" ... well I've never had an attitude ... but that would describe their best work ... which Undercover is not ... I can't explain what raw rocking music is ... but I know it when I hear it ... the single just never turned my clock ... not sure why ... maybe the drum machine? the echo? the techno bits? ... Keith did not seem inspired on this one ... the whole CD seemed to be recorded with a filter to keep all warmth & human touch off it ... it was the first Rolling Stones album I did not buy on it's first day of release since Aftermath ... but the wife bought it by the weekend for me ... over all not a bad effort ... Dirty Work remains the all time low point ... this one added to the fire driving the decline ...

MTV generation may have viewed the Stones as "old" ... but Mick felt the pain of facing a "mature" future in a more intense way as reflected by the "bile" ... all over Undercover ... Keith was settling into a wonderful marriage that most likely saved his life ...  but the "edge" was off by then & thank you Patti ... but living with a woman & children is no way to make rock & roll!!!!!!!!!!!
:perverted :funny

Great album but really, excepting VL, aren't they all?

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b237/open-g/Chainsawkeith.jpg

"yea, every time I drive through the crossroads I get scared, there's a bloke running round with a fucking chain saw. Oh! Oh! oh No, he's gonna cut off, Oh no. Don't saw off me leg, don't saw off me arm." ”

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b237/open-g/UnderCover2.jpg
Undercover of the Night

Saint Sway wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2009 at 4:52pm:

Harlem Shuffle was another moment where they dropped the ball. Poor choice for a lead single and an embarrassing video with Paula Abdul cartoon cats the B-Side - Had It With You should of been the 1st single - the A-Side and Shuffle should of been the flip. Keep the cover songs as the B-Sides

"Harlem Shuffle" was at least commercially successful, wasn't it? A Top 5 U.S. single, if I'm not mistaken -- the next-to-last of their career ("Mixed Emotions" being the last).

And, carrying on in the Undercover tradition, *that* video, with its crude racial tropes, was yet another mini-scandal.

I did not realize that Keith actually wielded a chain saw in the Too Much Blood video.  

Hello everyone, long time lurker, for years really, I had to jump on board of this thread and profess my love for Undercover. I agree with many that believe Undercover was the last edgy and tue Rolling Stones album. It many ways I feel that it is similar to Exile and Some Girls in feel and sound. I love it's loose feel and infectious grooves of The Pain of Love and Pretty Beat Up, Feel on Baby is one of the Stones cooler dreamy tracks, eveytime I hear it it puts me into the vicarious zone when Jagger sings about traveling across the ocean. The music videos form teh album were not only cool ofr the stoens but really three of the coolest old school videoss of all time.

I think the reason why the album was deemed a failure is many fans of the Tattoo You and Some Girls albums weren't ready to embrace the stones in the 80's, it seems the mor etiem goes by more and more people are starting to relize how great undercover was, plus as good as the singles, video's and salacious content was it could not compare to the more immediate songs and albums of that era such as ZZ Top's magnificant Elimiator, Micheal Jacskon's Thriller, Van Halen' 1984, and Def Leppard's Pyromania, these albums were.. I won't say better but I will say much more immediate and acessable to the listner right off the bat. Rock had stepped up a level and top 40 pop like Madona stole all the female listeners ears back then.

My top 5 fave stones album in chrono

Let it Bleed
Sticky Fingers
Exile
Tattoo You
Undercover

Pretty Beat Up hits the ground running with his first post...... :keithpunky

Zack wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2009 at 5:08am:

I did not realize that Keith actually wielded a chain saw in the Too Much Blood video.

Two great stills there or what?

yep, he appeared to be well-armed in all three videos. Gun in 'Undercover', chainsaw in 'Too Much Blood' and er...thermometer in 'She Was Hot'.....

Pete Townshend was interviewed about the 'Undercover' video on TV here when it came out and contrasted the performance of the two, by saying that while Jagger came across as a 'total ham', Richards genuinely looked and acted like someone who would take great pleasure in 'cutting your head off'....

Saint Sway wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2009 at 10:20am:

so WTF happened???

http://www.therockdose.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/vanhalen-1984-fcover-thumb.jpg

Zack wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2009 at 5:08am:

I did not realize that Keith actually wielded a chain saw in the Too Much Blood video.

Time for a re-visit then  :willya

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GugjdJzMePw

...and Keith looks like he really means it  :o

Ronnie also swings a Mc Cullogh chainsaw, but very briefly.

open-g wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2009 at 8:56am:

Zack wrote on Jun 3rd, 2009 at 5:08am: I did not realize that Keith actually wielded a chain saw in the Too Much Blood video.   Time for a re-visit then  :willya http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GugjdJzMePw ...and Keith looks like he really means it  :o Ronnie also swings a Mc Cullogh chainsaw, but very briefly.

Is it bad that I laughed at seeing the cameraman's shadow on the girl reading the magazine at the beginning? Perhaps I've watched too much MST3K... ;D ;D

Pretty Beat Up wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2009 at 6:35am:

Hello everyone, long time lurker, for years really,

I always knew my PARANOIA was not unfounded!!! LOL!!!

Great post BTW, PBU! and welcome!!!

Saint Sway wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2009 at 10:20am:

so WTF happened???

http://caraphillips.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/like_a_virgin.jpg

Ha! Madonna went from blowing Mick to blowing the rest of the Stones - off the charts!

Mel Belli wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2009 at 10:19pm:

Saint Sway wrote on Jun 2nd, 2009 at 4:52pm: Harlem Shuffle was another moment where they dropped the ball. Poor choice for a lead single and an embarrassing video with Paula Abdul cartoon cats the B-Side - Had It With You should of been the 1st single - the A-Side and Shuffle should of been the flip. Keep the cover songs as the B-Sides "Harlem Shuffle" was at least commercially successful, wasn't it? A Top 5 U.S. single, if I'm not mistaken -- the next-to-last of their career ("Mixed Emotions" being the last). And, carrying on in the Undercover tradition, *that* video, with its crude racial tropes, was yet another mini-scandal.

At this point the Stones would KILL for even a mini-scandal.

Maybe I missed something, but I dont remember there being ANY controversy over that video. I think maybe because we're living in a more pc-obsessed era, some people are looking at it from a  2009 perspective and assuming there was a fuss made about it.

I dont recall any - if anything, the video was seen as pretty cool at the time because of the innovative mesh of real people and cartoon characters. Aside from the dodgy clothes, it's not that bad.

Gazza wrote on Jun 4^th, 2009 at 7:29am:

Maybe I missed something, but I dont remember there being ANY controversy over that video. I think maybe because we're living in a more pc-obsessed era, some people are looking at it from a  2009 perspective and assuming there was a fuss made about it. I dont recall any - if anything, the video was seen as pretty cool at the time because of the innovative mesh of real people and cartoon characters. Aside from the dodgy clothes, it's not that bad.

I was nine or 10 at the time, so I don't recall directly ... It could be that I read someone else's p.c-sodden reminiscence years later and mistook it for a general reaction.

Nelson George (very PC indeed!) referred to the video as a ''coon show" at the time. He used to write for the Village Voice.

Gazza wrote on Jun 4^th, 2009 at 7:29am:

the video was seen as pretty cool at the time because of the innovative mesh of real people and cartoon characters.

BLANK FRIGGIN STARE

Saint Sway wrote on Jun 4^th, 2009 at 11:32am:

Gazza wrote on Jun 4th, 2009 at 7:29am: the video was seen as pretty cool at the time because of the innovative mesh of real people and cartoon characters. BLANK FRIGGIN STARE

I was just the other night watching an episode of "Pop-Up Video" on VH1 Classic ... I think the "Money for Nothing" video beat "Harlem Shuffle" to that punch.

Incidentally, I never knew that Sting got a significant cut of the royalties on that song -- all because he used the melody for "Don't Stand So Close to Me" at the end ("I want my/I want my MTV"). What a bastard.

Mel Belli wrote on Jun 4^th, 2009 at 11:40am:

I was just the other night watching an episode of "Pop-Up Video" on VH1 Classic ...

So, what your basically saying is that its been awhile since you've been on a date eh?

Mel Belli wrote on Jun 4^th, 2009 at 11:40am:

I was just the other night watching an episode of "Pop-Up Video" on VH1 Classic ... I think the "Money for Nothing" video beat "Harlem Shuffle" to that punch. Incidentally, I never knew that Sting got a significant cut of the royalties on that song -- all because he used the melody for "Don't Stand So Close to Me" at the end ("I want my/I want my MTV"). What a bastard.

Knopfler shared the songwriting credit with Sting.

left shoe shuffle wrote on Jun 4^th, 2009 at 11:46am:

Knopfler shared the songwriting credit with Sting.

Many blame the overturning of Prop 81 on this

Saint Sway wrote on Jun 4^th, 2009 at 11:43am:

Mel Belli wrote on Jun 4th, 2009 at 11:40am: I was just the other night watching an episode of "Pop-Up Video" on VH1 Classic ... So, what your basically saying is that its been awhile since you've been on a date eh?

Married six years, with two kids (the younger just two months). So, yeah, I'm watching quite a bit of TV lately. Mostly the MLB network, if that's any consolation.

for christs sake Mel, please tell me you're not TEVOing Matlock

Saint Sway wrote on Jun 4^th, 2009 at 11:57am:

for christs sake Mel, please tell me you're not TEVOing Matlock

No, but my wife is DVRing "Oprah" :-)

I don't like it. It just doesn't groove like the rest of their albums. And I hate the drums and overall production of it.

Holden wrote on Jun 4^th, 2009 at 1:53pm:

I don't like it. It just doesn't groove like the rest of their albums. And I hate the drums and overall production of it.

Agree about the drums. Speaking of which, the drums on "Dirty Work," artifically triggered by Steve Lillywhite, may have sounded even worse.