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ROCKS OFF - The Rolling Stones Message Board › GENERAL › MAIN BOARD › Jagger and Morrison

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Jagger and Morrison (Read 2,409 times)

MaineMotels

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Jagger and Morrison
Oct 12^th, 2008 at 1:14pm

I was just thinking. Everyone knows that Jagger is the best frontman ever. That just goes without saying almost. But Morrison was close. I don't think they copied each others moves so much but they were kind of tapping the same lode. I don't know if they ever met each other or not. Or if they considered each other rivals. I don't recall having read anything about that. Morrison checked out of his hotel too soon. Mick was lucky enough to keep his "back up" band. The Stones had a better band perhaps, as well as the stable of session guys on call. I'm not sure as to how a Manzarek/Stewart on the keyboards comparison would work out.

« Last Edit: Oct 12^th, 2008 at 1:19pm by Ten Thousand Motels »

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Edith Grove Agent Provocateur Offline Disco STILL sucks! Posts: 12,336 New Orleans Gender:	Re: tman.... Jagger and Morrison Reply #1 - Oct 12^th, 2008 at 1:17pm Mick's back-up band? Are you kidding? "Mick is Charlie's singer!"
Back to top	“What rap did that was impressive was to show there are so many tone-deaf people out there,” he says. “All they need is a drum beat and somebody yelling over it and they’re happy. There’s an enormous market for people who can’t tell one note from another.” - Keef IP Logged

MaineMotels Ex Member Gender:	Re: tman.... Jagger and Morrison Reply #2 - Oct 12^th, 2008 at 1:22pm Edith Grove wrote on Oct 12^th, 2008 at 1:17pm: Mick's back-up band? Are you kidding? "Mick is Charlie's singer!" LOL. Notice I placed back up band in quotation marks. I'm not completely stupid.
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fireontheplatter Ex Member	Re: Jagger and Morrison Reply #3 - Oct 12^th, 2008 at 1:37pm jim, i think made things up as he went along...kind of like what mick does. i think they are both great front men.
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Sioux Rocks Off Regular Offline Brian Jones---Foundation Stone--Golden Stone Posts: 4,176 Virginia, U.S.A. Gender:	Re: Jagger and Morrison Reply #4 - Oct 12^th, 2008 at 2:45pm Don't know if Mick and Jim knew each other. Jim and Brian crossed paths a few times.....and Brian made an impression on him.
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Gazza Unholy Trinity Admin Offline Rat Bastid "We piss anywhere, man.." Posts: 13,213 Belfast, UK Gender:	Re: Jagger and Morrison Reply #5 - Oct 12^th, 2008 at 7:15pm Sioux wrote on Oct 12^th, 2008 at 2:45pm: Don't know if Mick and Jim knew each other. Jim and Brian crossed paths a few times.....and Brian made an impression on him. When Jim was arrested for being drunk on an aircraft in November 1969, he as en route to see the Stones performing in Phoenix.
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Sioux Rocks Off Regular Offline Brian Jones---Foundation Stone--Golden Stone Posts: 4,176 Virginia, U.S.A. Gender:	Re: Jagger and Morrison Reply #6 - Oct 12^th, 2008 at 7:53pm Ahhhh....thanks, Gazza... I know that Jim and Brian met on "The Strip" a few times. There are interesting stories....
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Ian Billen

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Re: tman.... Jagger and Morrison
Reply #7 - Oct 13^th, 2008 at 2:10am

Ten Thousand Motels wrote on Oct 12^th, 2008 at 1:22pm:

Edith Grove wrote on Oct 12^th, 2008 at 1:17pm:

Mick's back-up band? Are you kidding?

"Mick is Charlie's singer!" really?

LOL. Notice I placed back up band in quotation marks.

I'm not completely stupid.

________________

lol. At first I thought ...a back up band for Mick? ...who?...did Mick have a side project in the 60's I am unaware of...

I see what you mean. Another way it could of been put was "a better band he was singing for backing him up".

The Stones take The Doors on most planes. Morrison vs. Jagger?

Well they were so completely different. It is like Chocolate vs. Vanilla. Both very good in their own light.

However, I really think you got to give it to Mick over anyone.

He has, and displays sex appeal to both sexes!, charisma, detached irony, manic qualities, coolness, street toughness, masculinity, femininity, intellect, energy, an evilness, a happiness, athleticism, a boldness, an evasiveness, grace, sarcasm, prowess and at times comedy.. all wrapped up into one showmanship style.

Name one other front man that comes close to having all of those traits and some how makes them all work in one package, while all seeming so Mick Jagger. Some of these showmanship traits seem purposefully forced, some seem so natural, yet they all seem to fit his puzzle.

Ian

« Last Edit: Oct 13^th, 2008 at 2:15am by Ian Billen »

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corgi37

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Re: Jagger and Morrison
Reply #8 - Oct 13^th, 2008 at 5:16am

In "No one here gets out alive" there is quite a few references to Mick & Jim. According to Sugarman, the Doors were referrred to as "America's Rolling Stones". There is a reference in the book where Jim got a little peeved that young Denny, a young office worker asked for Stones tickets.
"What you want Mick Jagger for when you got me?", Jim asked with a mixture of bravado & hurt. (PAGE 260).

3rd row too!

Jim did indeed get arrested en route to a Stones Phoenix show. The prick had 4 front row seat too!

Page 276, at a party thrown by Ahme t Ertegun, Jim said Jagger was a "Prince among men".

But it is stated 100% that Jim & Jagger did indeed hang out - at least twice. But i cant find it as the pages in the book are miss-fucking-printed! They end at 280 then go to 309, then go back again at some point but i cant recall which point.

Ah, bloody Google it.

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Gazza

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Re: tman.... Jagger and Morrison
Reply #9 - Oct 13^th, 2008 at 6:42am

Ian Billen wrote on Oct 13^th, 2008 at 2:10am:

Ten Thousand Motels wrote on Oct 12^th, 2008 at 1:22pm:

Edith Grove wrote on Oct 12^th, 2008 at 1:17pm:

Mick's back-up band? Are you kidding?

"Mick is Charlie's singer!" really?

LOL. Notice I placed back up band in quotation marks.

I'm not completely stupid.

Morrison had all of those too, in some cases (ie intellect) even more so.

Bit of an unfair comparison to make overall, considering one of them didnt live past 27.

Ian Billen wrote on Oct 13^th, 2008 at 2:10am:

Name one other front man that comes close to having all of those traits and some how makes them all work in one package, while all seeming so Mick Jagger

Why would you expect another front man to seem so Mick Jagger?
Tongue

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Gazza

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Re: Jagger and Morrison
Reply #10 - Oct 13^th, 2008 at 6:51am

corgi37 wrote on Oct 13^th, 2008 at 5:16am:

Its not specifically indicated in the book but "Young Denny" the 13 year old office worker (he dealt with the fan mail) was actually Danny Sugerman himself. Good to see that even at that young age, he had great taste in music.

He later married everyone's favourite paper-shredder, the delectable Fawn Hall.

Both of them obviously had outstanding talents when it came to dealing with the mail.

« Last Edit: Oct 13^th, 2008 at 6:53am by Gazza »

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MaineMotels

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Re: tman.... Jagger and Morrison
Reply #11 - Oct 13^th, 2008 at 8:31am

[quote author=Gazza link=1223835264/0#9 date=Bit of an unfair comparison to make overall, considering one of them didnt live past 27.

[/quote]

One reason I didn't want to make it a j vs m thread. But I don't think Morrisons age at his death has much to do with his talents, even though it adds to the mystique I guess.

I never saw the Doors live, but the first record I had of them was a live album and as I recall an eight track tape.

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Gazza

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Re: tman.... Jagger and Morrison
Reply #12 - Oct 13^th, 2008 at 11:57am

Ten Thousand Motels wrote on Oct 13^th, 2008 at 8:31am:

One reason I didn't want to make it a j vs m thread. But I don't think Morrisons age at his death has much to do with his talents, even though it adds to the mystique I guess.

You're right, but what I meant was we simply dont know how his career - and ability as a performer - would have developed. He only really had four and a half years in the public eye. Mick has had four and a half decades.

« Last Edit: Oct 13^th, 2008 at 12:00pm by Gazza »

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gimmekeef

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Re: Jagger and Morrison
Reply #13 - Oct 13^th, 2008 at 12:55pm

Both were/are fabulous front men. Live though Mick has a huge edge..and not just due to longevity. Many Doors live shows were drunk Morrison rants at best.I always feel the measure of a great lead singer occurs on stage.Before Morrison I'd consider these guys (of many) in no order either:

Freddie Mercury
Roger Daltrey
Robert Plant
Elvis
Iggy
Springsteen
Bob Marley

"Runnin Like A Cat In A Thunderstorm"

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CousinC Rocks Off Regular Offline Rocks Off Rules You Bastards Posts: 14	Re: Jagger and Morrison Reply #14 - Oct 13^th, 2008 at 3:19pm I think I read something about Jim having been at Nelcote in 71. But I'm not really shure . .
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Gazza

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Re: Jagger and Morrison
Reply #15 - Oct 13^th, 2008 at 4:47pm

I'm not so sure.

Morrison moved to Paris mid-March 1971 and died on 3rd July. The Stones moved to France soon after the Marquee show on 26th March.

Jim and Pamela did take a road trip in April for a few weeks through the south of France, into Spain and on to Morocco, but there's no indication they took a detour to the Nice area.

Good account of his final months here : http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palladium/1409/quietday.htm

This photo was taken at his grave at Pere-Lachaise cemetery in June 2005. It's in a lot better condition than it was when I had last visited in 1987. They have security constantly nearby and it's fenced off to prevent fans desecrating the headstone (and those of the other nearby occupants) which had been put up a few years earlier.

..and this photo, taken in June of this year, is at the front door of the apartment where Jim took his last bath. It's now an office.

« Last Edit: Oct 13^th, 2008 at 5:17pm by Gazza »

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silver rainbow Rocks Off Regular Offline Rocks Off Rules You Bastards Posts: 39 on main street(cheesy i know) Gender:	Re: Jagger and Morrison Reply #16 - Oct 13^th, 2008 at 5:11pm i don't see how you would wanna compare mick and jim jim was just a drunk with a good voice mick is... well you know the best
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Ian Billen

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Re: Jagger and Morrison
Reply #17 - Oct 13^th, 2008 at 5:58pm

Gazza Wrote:

"Morrison had all of those too, in some cases (ie intellect) even more so.

Bit of an unfair comparison to make overall, considering one of them didnt live past 27. "

___________________________________

I am not so sure Morrison had "all" these traits although he had a few. Yes, Morrisson may of had more "intellect" or at least fronted it more than Mick most of the time. It was one of his strongest selling points.

What you should take note of is how many of these traits Mick certainly blew Morrison out the door with - energy, athleticism (still not in able to agree with you in that Morrison could be noted as being athletic)
androgynous sex appeal, charisma etc.

Jim was (sorrowfully and tragically) in the gutter at age 27 ..without any disrespect. Jagger was still going strong at age 27, on a roll, in the middle of possibly the most productive musical output by any band in history, and was still in development to what he has become now so I don't think we can say Jim's legacy was way too short in an unfair analysis. Morrison was not exactly at the top of his game when he checked out. Mick was never even close to this condition. Even in his worse, drug ladled days the dude was NEVER even ever so slightly not able to perform and do his thing very strongly.

Jim (and the Doors) were really good. I like them a lot. In my top ten bands.

Morrison's stage persona was carried by his "stage presence". He had great "presence". A sight to remember and fixate upon by just him being up there.

However Jagger had great stage presence as well as well as a slew of other aforementioned qualities. I think Morrison fell short on many of them compared to Mick. As well I don't think he had them all as Mick did.

No disrespect to Mr. Morrison. I really admire and I dig The Doors. In addition, I think Mick takes anyone far as a front man goes pretty fairly and easily.

**In fact, doing what he does at his age, and by Mick still being Mick up there, with all he has been through, done, and paved the way for others it is sort of a "given" that you have to give the title of Best Front Man Ever to Mr. Jagger. It seems Mick gets considerably more votes than anyone when it comes to this, and rightfully so.

Ian

« Last Edit: Oct 13^th, 2008 at 6:04pm by Ian Billen »

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Gazza

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Re: Jagger and Morrison
Reply #18 - Oct 13^th, 2008 at 6:23pm

er..I wasnt saying or implying he was 'better', I was saying he had pretty much the same qualities to varying degrees. Some more so, some less so. Roll Eyes

I'd prefer Jagger every time, but its hardly a level playing field.

>it is sort of a "given" that you have to give the title of Best Front Man Ever to Mr. Jagger. It seems Mick gets considerably more votes than anyone when it comes to this, and rightfully so.

It isnt a 'given' that I 'have' to give anything. Its a matter of opinion.

« Last Edit: Oct 13^th, 2008 at 6:41pm by Gazza »

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stonedinaustralia Rocks Off Regular Offline wake up crackers or we all through!! Posts: 859	Re: Jagger and Morrison Reply #19 - Oct 13^th, 2008 at 7:54pm Gazza - you certainly cut a fine figure of a man - Mrs. Gazza must be pleased with herself - you look very serious or is that a side effect of hanging out in cemetaries you have an almost springsteenian caste to your countenance - he has irish roots - you're not related are you??
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Ian Billen

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Re: Jagger and Morrison
Reply #20 - Oct 13^th, 2008 at 8:04pm

Gazza Wrote:

"I was saying he had pretty much the same qualities to varying degrees."

______________________

Do you really feel this way? I think he had some of these qualities but most of which he did not. Most of the time Morrison just stood there and gave the occasional hop, or scream from everything I have seen. He was cool, good at what he did, came across well and had great presence but over all I think Mick and a few others had way more to offer.

"It isnt a 'given' that I 'have' to give anything. Its a matter of opinion. "

_______________________

Absolutely it is. All I am saying is compare the two and what have you got? Tell me what you come up with? Morrison while, good on stage doesn't come very close to Mick in my opinion. I think Morrison was sort of limited in what he actually could do and get away with or pull off in terms of his actual performance on stage compared to Mick, Iggy Pop, and Elvis whom I feel were much more versatile.

Ultimately what I am saying is that the general consensus is Mick would very easily get more votes. In this type of comparison Mick and Elvis would usually get the highest amount of votes from what I have read and from people I have spoke with concerning the best front men/(woman ..I suppose).

In my opinion Elvis in his younger days blew Jim away when speaking of their stage performance.

Ian

« Last Edit: Oct 13^th, 2008 at 8:15pm by Ian Billen »

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Gazza

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Re: Jagger and Morrison
Reply #21 - Oct 14^th, 2008 at 7:56am

Ian Billen wrote on Oct 13^th, 2008 at 8:04pm:

Seriously Ian, who bloody cares? If you want to cherrypick some of your own points, have a blast.

Ian Billen wrote on Oct 13^th, 2008 at 8:04pm:

"It isnt a 'given' that I 'have' to give anything. Its a matter of opinion. "

_______________________

Absolutely it is. All I am saying is compare the two and what have you got?
Tell me what you come up with? Morrison while, good on stage doesn't come very close to Mick in my opinion. I think Morrison was sort of limited in what he actually could do and get away with or pull off in terms of his actual performance on stage compared to Mick, Iggy Pop, and Elvis whom I feel were much more versatile.

uh..the "given" you were referring to originally was that Mick is the greatest front man of all time. Now youre limiting that to merely comparing him with Jim Morrison. I've already stated who I think was 'better'. Pointless discussion if you cant even stay consistent about what exactly it is youre arguing about.

Ian Billen wrote on Oct 13^th, 2008 at 8:04pm:

Ultimately what I am saying is that the general consensus is Mick would very easily get more votes. In this type of comparison Mick and Elvis would usually get the highest amount of votes from what I have read and from people I have spoke with concerning the best front men/(woman ..I suppose).

I was unaware there was an election pending.... who bloody cares? I dont judge my opinion and taste on what other people like or dislike.

Ian Billen wrote on Oct 13^th, 2008 at 8:04pm:

In my opinion Elvis in his younger days blew Jim away when speaking of their stage performance.

..and Mick.

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Gazza

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Re: Jagger and Morrison
Reply #22 - Oct 14^th, 2008 at 7:59am

stonedinaustralia wrote on Oct 13^th, 2008 at 7:54pm:

Gazza - you certainly cut a fine figure of a man - Mrs. Gazza must be pleased with herself - you look very serious or is that a side effect of hanging out in cemetaries

you have an almost springsteenian caste to your countenance - he has irish roots - you're not related are you??

haha. No, but oddly enough his mother in law grew up about three streets away from me

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gimmekeef Rocks Off Regular Offline Posts: 5,753 Ontario Canada Gender:	Re: Jagger and Morrison Reply #23 - Oct 14^th, 2008 at 1:04pm Gazza on the trail of Morrison haunts....CSI Gazza......
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corgi37

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Re: Jagger and Morrison
Reply #24 - Oct 15^th, 2008 at 3:57am

I've been scouring that bloody Morrison book for 2 days now and I FUCKING KNOW Jagger & Morrison went out one night in L.A. I know it. I do!

I also recall one of Morrison's friends going to Nellcote. His French mate. The bearded one. Or, was that some fantasy story i read?? I know there was some fanciful bullshit account (though it was very entertaining) of Jim mixing it with the hanger's on at Nellcote.

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