Banquete de PORDIOSEROS
Foro Principal => Rolling Stones => Mensaje iniciado por: sympathyforthedevil en Septiembre 24, 2009, 09:32:32 pm
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amigos banqueteros el muchacho dueño del 40x5 tributo bar lanzo una pregunta en facebook "solo por curiosidad"y dijo que nunca nos olvidemos de este dia...
la pregunta fue la siguiente:
¿LA PROXIMA Y ULTIMA GIRA MUNDIAL DE LOS STONES COMIENZA EN SEPTIEMBRE DE 2010 EN ARGENTINA?
:shock: como esa cara amarilla quede yo, un mix de emociones, y como en mi casa estan muy poco informados sobre Los Rolling, desidi compartirla con ustedes
alguien escucho algo? alguien conose a el muchacho este o tiene contacto? vale la pena emosionarse? o simplemente fue una pregunta/deseo?
saludos
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haha tambien dijo que en Noviembre de este año vuelve Bernard a BsAs
esa si, en esa lo apoyo 8)
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Tambien que tocaba Mick T el año pasado era???
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Yo lo leí y por lo que tengo entendido los de ese bar tienen fuentes verácez ... esperemos que se de ... ojalá !!
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si, si....esto se publico en el foro de IORR tambien, por un usuario, pero lo considero imposible, por no decir muy imposible.... :roll: Chicos, los Stones empiezan como siempre en Estados Unidos, su mercado màs fuerte.......
As days passed the possibilities for Stones to make their final world tour are become more and more possible.
The new tour as rumors says, will start next August or September from South America (Buenos Aires,Sao Paolo,Rio de Janeiro), then north america.
Summer 2011 will be the European leg of the tour which will finished with a second leg summer 2012.
Except these, there are rumors that the band will play in cities and countries that has never or very few times play in the past, like Seoul, Venezuela,Chile,Uruguay,Israel,Lithuania,Athens,Istanbul,Sofia,South Africa,etc.
Announcements about March 2010.
http://www.iorr.org/talk/read.php?1,1128207
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Lucho hola, hace poco pusiste lo que pongo en negritas abajo .................................................................................................esto que acabas de poner y que tu tampoco das fe choca directamente con tu otra fuente revise cuantas veces ha participado este Griego en el 2009 en IORR y son sólo 7 veces en 10 meses y ahora tiene una primicia ........... mucho rumor creo, OJO que es bueno pero ya da un poco de risa......lo de Brooklin separado por los Stones tampoco calza ....ya ahora este rumor griego también viene via de un bar con credibilidad.......en fin gracias por los rumores que hacen acelerar mi corazón ya que algo debe pasar en el 2010 sino its all over now
No voy a citar fuentes, por que no es una noticia....pero hay un forista extranjero de otro foro con el cual tengo un contacto (ya lo publico en IORR, pueden verlo si quieren) y es una fuente muy confiable....
* Dice que un contacto suyo, està como mano de obra de la empresa que hace los escenarios de los Stones.....y se habla de un super escenario, con una logistica de 135 Trailers ¡¡¡¡¡¡¡
* La gira empezaria en 6 meses, o sea en Febrero de 2010 (esto ya lo habia dicho) y empèzaria por USA......
* Los Stones estarian entrando al Estudio de Grabaciòn antes de Fin de Año.
* Este muchacho, tambien tiene contacto con Jane Rose (manager de Keith) y le contestò un mail, en donde lo poco que le pudo decir, fuè que Keith estaba fuera del pais (USA), terminando sus vacaciones, y empezando a engranar la maquinaria para volver a trabajar.......el le re-pregunto si era con los Stones, y ella...solo le puso " YES".
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lo único real hasta el momento se dará el 29 de septiembre en este sitio:
http://www.acdcbacktracks.com/us/home
Ya si los Stones hacen algo, por ahora me tiene sin cuidado.... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
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es muy dificil,ya con que pasen por aqui seria mas que maravilloso,importa realmente la fecha???????
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Lucho hola, hace poco pusiste lo que pongo en negritas abajo .................................................................................................esto que acabas de poner y que tu tampoco das fe choca directamente con tu otra fuente revise cuantas veces ha participado este Griego en el 2009 en IORR y son sólo 7 veces en 10 meses y ahora tiene una primicia ........... mucho rumor creo, OJO que es bueno pero ya da un poco de risa......lo de Brooklin separado por los Stones tampoco calza ....ya ahora este rumor griego también viene via de un bar con credibilidad.......en fin gracias por los rumores que hacen acelerar mi corazón ya que algo debe pasar en el 2010 sino its all over now
[/b]
Yo no site ninguna fuente en este post.....no se donde viste eso? :roll: ....lo unico que puse, fuè que en el foro IORR, habian publicado un post como este, pero que yo lo veia.....IMPOSIBLE....¡¡¡.....el unico rumor "fuerte" que yo publiquè, fuè el que vos citaste....nada màs.....imaginate que yo me entere de lo que dice este post, 10 dias antes de que el usuario "sympathyforthedevil"...postee esto y si buscaria contradecirme, lo hubiese posteado yo.....no te parece???
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Lucho lee mi post y dice que tu no das crédito a lo de Argentina comenzar la gira stone etc....mi pregunta va por la fuente muy confiable y lo de Jane rose que citaste si los Stones comienzan en Febrero o se cayó el proyecto, o sigue blindado por el momento.
SALUDOS
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Lucho lee mi post y dice que tu no das crédito a lo de Argentina comenzar la gira stone etc....mi pregunta va por la fuente muy confiable y lo de Jane rose que citaste si los Stones comienzan en Febrero o se cayó el proyecto, o sigue blindado por el momento.
SALUDOS
Ok...me retracto y disculpas.....¡¡¡¡
Con respecto a la contradicciòn de rumores....bue....son solo eso...rumores....por que oficial....podemos tomar como oficial las palabras de Ronnie y Keith, acerca de que si, van a girar en 2010.....la persona que me contò lo que postie, me dijo febrero 2010...otros dicen Septiembre, por eso es medio complicado hablar de fechas.....aunque no lo creas Cucho, todos los dias, ya hace como 2 meses, me llegan versiones....eso es bueno por si el rio suena es que agua trae....pero por otro, te tienta a publicar todo, por el solo echo de querer dar "buenas noticias".....y uno a veces cae en contradicciones...por eso siempre aclaro que es un rumor y que lo tomen com tal....
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Tambien que tocaba Mick T el año pasado era???
Esa era una jalada y así fue, Mick Taylor no tocó, pero atreverse a decir que los Stones van a abrir la gira en Argentina es no tener idea de como funcionan los tours. Siempre inician en Estados Unidos ya que ahí es donde más dinero colectan, tienen ahí la mayor parte del público y cobran los precios mas caros. En Argentina tienen muy buen publico pero los boletos se venden casi regalados y lo más que han dado es cinco conciertos seguidos número que no es comparable ni con el Noreste de Estados Unidos. Ahora si que se pasó esta persona, no se midió. Lo que si puede ser es que por el gran afecto de los Stones al público latino lo hicieran si no estuviera Michael Cohl de por medio :evil:
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ya que algo debe pasar en el 2010 sino its all over now
Asi es, yo tambien creo que si no salen el año entrante ya no salen nunca
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Por qué tanto exceptisismo en que no hay chance que abran acá en septiembre ? no entiendo ... por más que hagan más guita en EE.UU, se supone que igual van a tocar ahí ... antes o después pero lo van a hacer ...
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Por qué tanto exceptisismo en que no hay chance que abran acá en septiembre ? no entiendo ... por más que hagan más guita en EE.UU, se supone que igual van a tocar ahí ... antes o después pero lo van a hacer ...
Va de nuevo la explicación ahora te la resumo: Michael Cohl está de por medio
razones por lo que no creo la noticia:
- Es un negocio y se trata de que sea autosuficiente, es decir que no haya inversión, Michael Cohl nunca le ha pedido dinero a los Stones para una gira, ni tampoco a bancos, el escenario se hace con línea de crédito y con las preventas de Estados Unidos ya dejan pagado todo antes de iniciar el tour. Además de que los stones cobran el show y los viáticos por separado y por adelantado.
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Por qué tanto exceptisismo en que no hay chance que abran acá en septiembre ? no entiendo ... por más que hagan más guita en EE.UU, se supone que igual van a tocar ahí ... antes o después pero lo van a hacer ...
Va de nuevo la explicación ahora te la resumo: Michael Cohl está de por medio
razones por lo que no creo la noticia:
- Es un negocio y se trata de que sea autosuficiente, es decir que no haya inversión, Michael Cohl nunca le ha pedido dinero a los Stones para una gira, ni tampoco a bancos, el escenario se hace con línea de crédito y con las preventas de Estados Unidos ya dejan pagado todo antes de iniciar el tour. Además de que los stones cobran el show y los viáticos por separado y por adelantado.
Bueno, ahí ya hay datos que ni sabía y que no leí ...
De todos modos, esperemos que vengan auque sea en la gira, no importa el momento ...
Gracias por la explicación ... saludos !
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Por qué tanto exceptisismo en que no hay chance que abran acá en septiembre ? no entiendo ... por más que hagan más guita en EE.UU, se supone que igual van a tocar ahí ... antes o después pero lo van a hacer ...
Va de nuevo la explicación ahora te la resumo: Michael Cohl está de por medio
razones por lo que no creo la noticia:
- Es un negocio y se trata de que sea autosuficiente, es decir que no haya inversión, Michael Cohl nunca le ha pedido dinero a los Stones para una gira, ni tampoco a bancos, el escenario se hace con línea de crédito y con las preventas de Estados Unidos ya dejan pagado todo antes de iniciar el tour. Además de que los stones cobran el show y los viáticos por separado y por adelantado.
Bueno, ahí ya hay datos que ni sabía y que no leí ...
De todos modos, esperemos que vengan auque sea en la gira, no importa el momento ...
Gracias por la explicación ... saludos !
Llegué a ver el contrato de los stones del 2005 ABB tour y si no llenabas el estadio minimo en dos tercios tenías multa x perjudicar la imagen de los stones !!! Cohl se recontra blinda .
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Por qué tanto exceptisismo en que no hay chance que abran acá en septiembre ? no entiendo ... por más que hagan más guita en EE.UU, se supone que igual van a tocar ahí ... antes o después pero lo van a hacer ...
Va de nuevo la explicación ahora te la resumo: Michael Cohl está de por medio
razones por lo que no creo la noticia:
- Es un negocio y se trata de que sea autosuficiente, es decir que no haya inversión, Michael Cohl nunca le ha pedido dinero a los Stones para una gira, ni tampoco a bancos, el escenario se hace con línea de crédito y con las preventas de Estados Unidos ya dejan pagado todo antes de iniciar el tour. Además de que los stones cobran el show y los viáticos por separado y por adelantado.
Bueno, ahí ya hay datos que ni sabía y que no leí ...
De todos modos, esperemos que vengan auque sea en la gira, no importa el momento ...
Gracias por la explicación ... saludos !
De nada,
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estimados: emotional, dark H y Mati.
no lo tomen a mal, no hay inconvenientes,
solo un mal entendido nada mas.
Yo respondo por el tema y kaliman esta al tanto de lo que paso.
lo dejamos ahi? chasss gracias
Elimine el cometario de kaliman y voy a sacar sus comentarios sobre esto, para no continuar haciendo de esto algo interminable,
vuelvo a agradecer el gesto
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estimados: emotional, dark H y Mati.
no lo tomen a mal, no hay inconvenientes,
solo un mal entendido nada mas.
Yo respondo por el tema y kaliman esta al tanto de lo que paso.
lo dejamos ahi? chasss gracias
Elimine el cometario de kaliman y voy a sacar sus comentarios sobre esto, para no continuar haciendo de esto algo interminable,
vuelvo a agradecer el gesto
UFA! :( Extrañaba las peleas y riñas :roll: , los insultos y agresiones :roll: , el bardo y la cizaña :roll: ... ¡MALO MALO MALO, MARCELO MALO :cry: :cry: !
( :lol: :lol: :lol: )
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Alguien recuerda el articulo de la fortune magazine en 2002???
Se los dejo, a ver si aclara "dudas"
(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e185/rogerarturo/mag7.jpg)
FORTUNE Exclusive: Inside the Business of the Rolling Stones; Story Reveals Why Stones Keep Touring—and How They Make More Money Than Any Other Band
(FORTUNE Magazine) – Mick Jagger is wearing a cool pink shirt, slim black trousers, and bright red socks. His hair is--well, there's a lot of it. But don't let the look fool you. Mick is all business. That's business with a capital "B," as in the stuff we write about all the time in the pages of FORTUNE.
I'm up in Jagger's suite in Boston's Four Seasons hotel just before the Stones kick off their worldwide Licks tour. Mick turns down the volume on a boom box, packs off two of his young kids with their nannies, and then holds forth on product pricing, economics, and business models. Jagger is eloquent and informed, but he has a disclaimer: "I don't really count myself as a very sophisticated businessperson," he says as he leans back on the couch. "I'm a creative artist. All I know from business I've picked up along the way. I never really studied business in school. I kind of wish I had, kind of, but how boring is that?" he says with a grin.
Like the protagonist in one of his most devilish songs, Mick has been around for many a long year. He had plenty of smarts to begin with, and now he has 40 years of music industry experience under his belt. Jagger may be getting a trifle old to rock & roll--he'll turn 60 next July--but from a business perspective he's at the top of his game. Which makes sense in a way. After all, that's a typical age for a CEO of a large, multinational organization. (Okay, so most of the CEOs we follow don't have to swivel-hip their way through "Midnight Rambler," but you get the point.)
There are, of course, plenty of detractors who say the Rolling Stones should pack in their guitars and drumsticks. "Way old," they sniff, "and way irrelevant." I have two responses, one subjective and one objective. Subjectively, the Rolling Stones sound pretty damn good, even after all these years. And objectively, if they're such has-beens, then how do you explain the band's phenomenal commercial success over the past decade? No, they aren't writing groundbreaking songs anymore--in fact they haven't really recorded any new material of note in 20 years--but we sure are listening to their old stuff. A lot. And buying concert tickets. Millions and millions of them. And that's the wrinkle here. Even though the Stones have been in what you might call a creatively fallow period, we want to hear them more than ever. Couple that with the fact that they have perfected their business model, and it's easy to understand why they are such an astounding moneymaking machine.
The bottom line is this: "The only rock & roll band that matters," or "the greatest rock & roll band in the world," or whatever you want to call Mick, Keith Richards, Charlie Watts, and Ronnie Wood, they are far and away the most successful act in rock today. Since 1989 alone--the beginning of the modern age of the Rolling Stones (more on that later)--the band has generated more than $1.5 billion in gross revenues. That total includes sales of records, song rights, merchandising, sponsorship money, and touring (see chart on following pages). The Stones have made more money than U2, or Springsteen, or Michael Jackson, or Britney Spears, or the Who--or whoever.
Unlike some other groups, the Stones carry no Woodstock-esque, antibusiness baggage. The group has tendrils deep in American business, cutting sponsorship and rights deals with stalwarts like Anheuser-Busch, Microsoft, and Sprint. Remember the old Boston Consulting Group matrix of the four types of businesses? Well, if the Stones were a traditional company, they would be the cash cow.
As with most thriving enterprises, the Rolling Stones Inc. runs on a combustible mix of talent and intense labor--the product of four decades of trial and error. The band downplays the effectiveness of the organization: "I'm sure that if you looked at it and analyzed it, you could say, 'Well, that's fucked up,'" says Jagger. "That shouldn't be like that. No, of course it isn't run well. No show business organization is run well. There's always too much money paid out." Keith, for his part, just shakes his head: "It's a mom-and-pop operation," he laughs. "Mick is the mom, and I'm the pop, and then we have these offspring that need feeding." Well, kind of.
The Stones, or at least some members of the band, can still come across as wiggy rock stars. ("You're talking to the business right now," Richards tells me, holding up his two hands ceremoniously. "These are the business.") But in many respects the Rolling Stones are like any other large business. They are global, they pay taxes (grudgingly), and they litigate. The band has a P&L and budgets, and accountants, and lawyers, and bankers, and investments, and software, and hardware. "They know what they're doing," says Barry Diller, a Jagger confidant. "That's what separates them from any other band."
Spend time with their senior entourage and you quickly realize how the Stones got so market-wise. Sure, Mick attended the London School of Economics ("I mostly studied economic history"), but his greatest talent, besides strutting and singing, is his ability to surround himself and the rest of the band with a group of very able (they probably hate to be called this) executives.
The Rolling Stones are a private and secretive organization. Most of the team, like Joe Rascoff, the band's business manager, and tour director Michael Cohl, stay out of the public eye. So, too, does Prince Rupert Zu Loewenstein, a London-based banker who carries an old Bavarian title and who's been the band's chief business advisor for some 30 years--"and I hope for another 30 too," he says. (Keith calls Loewenstein "the mastermind of our setup.") But just because the Stones' financials aren't public doesn't mean there isn't rigorous benchmarking. "Mick likes to run a pretty tight ship," Keith says to me with a twinkle in his eye.
The business side of the Stones has several facets. As for any executive running a conglomerate, understanding and managing these diverse businesses are the key, says Jagger. "They all have income streams like any other company," he says. "They have different business models; they have different delegated people that look after them. And they have to interlock. That's my biggest problem." And as we will see, his biggest opportunity.
The touring side of the business produces a torrent of revenue when the band is on the road, and then of course absolutely zilch when the tour is done. The record business also blows hot and cold--depending on if a new album is released or if old ones are promoted--though it's not as erratic as touring. Music rights, on the other hand--money paid to a band when its songs are played on, say, the radio--are predictable enough that some artists (most famously David Bowie) have been able to securitize these rights and sell bonds backed by their revenue streams.
To harness these businesses, to make them "interlock," the Stones and Prince Rupert have set up a unique business structure, which looks roughly like this: At the top, not unlike at a blue-chip law firm, is a partnership consisting of the four core members of the group: Jagger, Richards, Watts, and Wood. Do all four get equal shares of touring and new-record sales? No one in the Stones party will touch that one. "In the old days they all got equal splits," says the Stones' former manager, Allen Klein, "but I doubt it now."
Connected to the Stones partnership and Prince Rupert is a group of companies that include Promotour, Promopub, Promotone, and Musidor, each dedicated to a particular aspect of the business. This family of companies is based in the Netherlands, which has tax advantages for foreign bands. When the group isn't touring, these companies employ only a few dozen employees. At the high-water mark of a tour, on the night the band is playing, say, Giants Stadium, the Stones may employ more than 350. Backstage the enterprise resembles a flourishing startup, with dozens of fast-moving junior employees in black T-shirts running around to make sure the IPO, er, the show, gets off without a hitch. It looks crazy, but it works. Perhaps Keith sums it up best: "With our business, who really knows what's what. You go and look at Lake Superior, and you say, 'Look at all that water, and that's just the top!'"
Today touring is professionalized, complete with immigration lawyers, traveling accountants, and real-time budgets. It is also the biggest moneymaking part of the Stones' operation. Since the 1989 Steel Wheels tour, the Stones have grossed over $1 billion on the road. Though exact profit margins are hard to come by, it's safe to say that tens of millions of that total flowed to each of the band members. It wasn't always this way. "When we first started out, there wasn't really any money in rock & roll," says Jagger. "There wasn't a touring industry; it didn't even exist. Obviously there was somebody maybe who made money, but it certainly wasn't the act. Basically, even if you were very successful, you got paid nothing."
Jagger recalls that in the beginning, "you'd just jump from gig to gig. There'd be no sound or lights or anything." Gradually, beginning with the Stones' 1969 American tour--which ended with the debacle at Altamont--the touring business would become modernized, with traveling lights, sound, and stage. Jagger himself had a major hand in this, sometimes negotiating directly with promoters in various regions and countries. But it wasn't until the 1989 Steel Wheels tour, when Canadian rock promoter Michael Cohl took over managing the band's shows, that the Stones would begin to fully exploit the economic potential of this business.
Generally speaking, prior to Steel Wheels, the band would hire a tour director--the late Bill Graham of Fillmore West fame once filled this role--who would call local promoters in each city to set up shows. Individual deals would have to be cut with each promoter, who took, say, 10% to 15% of ticket sales after the cost of the show. The tour director would then have to collect $250,000 here, $400,000 there, from promoters all over.
Cohl, who started out as a self-described "drugged-out, late-teens strip-club owner from Ottawa," had been one of those local promoters. After a run-in with the volatile Graham in 1988, Cohl came up with an idea that he thought would tantalize the Stones, who at the time weren't on speaking terms with each other, never mind touring. "I knew the guys from Pink Floyd, who knew Prince Rupert, and I asked them if they would call Rupert for me," he tells me as the sounds of the Stones rehearsing "Street Fighting Man" echo backstage. "Ten minutes later Rupert was on my phone saying, 'Excuse me, young man'-- he talks in this very nice, formal British accent--'excuse me, I understand you have something to say to me.' And I said $40 million for 40 shows. He said, 'Very interesting.'"
The way Cohl's plan worked is that he would book the entire tour himself, dealing with the venues directly and cutting out the local promoters. He would also produce new streams of revenue by selling skyboxes, bus tours, and TV deals, and by taking merchandising to a new level. He would bring in corporate sponsors like Volkswagen and Tommy Hilfiger. And most important, he would help stitch these operations together, through cross-promotion and the like, to maximize their earning power.
After months of negotiations and a desperate, failed bid by Graham to retain the Stones, the band accepted Cohl's offer. Cohl even ended up signing on as the band's tour director. There was one small problem: "I didn't have $40 million," recalls Cohl with a grin. "I had sold half of my company to Labatts [the Canadian beer company], and the truth of the matter is when I offered Rupert the $40 million, I didn't have their permission to offer it either." Ultimately Cohl was able to come up with the money, and he and the Stones put together the tour. (Another wrinkle: Steel Wheels had to be insured--Lloyd's covered Stones tours--and before the insurer would issue a policy, the band had to take physicals. Keith passed, legend has it, to his own astonishment.)
"First and foremost, the show itself was the seminal, watershed point," says Cohl. "When you look at what a stadium show was pre-Steel Wheels, it was a bit of a scrim, and a big, wide, flat piece of lumber, and that was it. The band turned a stadium into a theater. It all started with Mick. He simply said, 'We have to fill the end space.' It was complicated to the third power and expensive to the fifth. But it worked."
It was also incredibly hairy. "I think Michael would admit that it was a huge learning curve for him doing Steel Wheels," says Jagger. "Michael had never done it before really, so it was a bit of a gamble." The tour began in August, and by October Cohl looked at the numbers and realized they were losing money. Gobs of it. The band and the organization had to cut costs quickly. "It was a deal where I said they could make a whole lot of money, and I would guarantee it 'subject to,' and the 'subject to's' made us partners at the end of the day. So we all had to learn how to do it," says Cohl. And they did.
In the end, the Steel Wheels tour--tickets, merchandising, sponsorship money from Anheuser-Busch--made over $260 million worldwide, then a record for a rock tour. The venues, Cohl, the band, and Labatts all made out bigtime. Steel Wheels became the template, and Cohl has been doing Stones tours ever since, refining the operation each time around.
On the new, E*Trade-sponsored Licks tour, the band, which includes keyboard whiz Chuck Leavell and bassist Darryl Jones, is playing three types of venues: stadiums, arenas, and small clubs, each with a unique set of songs (the band has rehearsed more than 130 for this tour), staging, and lights. "It is an amazing challenge," says Patrick Woodroffe, the lighting designer on the tour, who's jumped in a cab with me after the Boston show, "but it's great for the audiences and it keeps the band fresh." The props and set are downplayed a bit. The giant, multimillion-dollar videoscreen, the staging, and the lights that change for every song don't overwhelm but complement.
Because they are doing smaller venues, the Stones and Cohl know revenue from Licks won't approach the monster Voodoo Lounge Tour in 1994-95, which brought in close to $370 million worldwide. Nor will it eclipse 1997-99's Bridges to Babylon/No Security tour, which did over $390 million. But merchandising (Jagger's and Charlie Watts's domain) will be more sophisticated than ever. Jagger tells me that there will be some 50 products--such as underwear by Britain's Agent Provocateur and new, expensive items like shirts, jackets, and, yes, dresses. And it will be "our most efficient tour ever," promises Rascoff, though he refuses to divulge any of the band's financials. "Doing fewer stadiums this time cuts costs because in previous tours we had to have three stages and three crews. This tour we have one stadium stage with one crew." In other words, when sales in your core business aren't maximized, you look to cut costs and boost tertiary revenues.
As usual, ticket prices ($50 to $350) have been the subject of much grousing in the press. But Jagger is happy to delve into the topic. "This is one element of the business thing that I try to really control as much as I can," he says. "Pricing a concert ticket is very different from pricing a Lexus or toothpaste. It's more like a sports event. And you are prepared to pay the market price. So if U2 or Madonna costs $100 (I'm making these up), you don't want to be charging $200. I try to keep ticket prices within the market price range. It's America. We're not living in a socialist society where we're all paid so low and no one can afford it."
The ticket-pricing controversy burns Cohl up. Athletes like Derek Jeter and Marshall Faulk are free to make whatever they can, "but people complain that Mick and Keith can't. I think that is the biggest load of crap. We are only charging $50 a night for club shows, which we lose money on. I read on eBay one of the tickets to Roseland Ballroom [in New York] went for $10,000. That makes us schmucks! When we charge $300 for some seats, somebody's out there selling them for $500. If we were to charge $500, somebody would sell them for more. Come on, what are they complaining about?" It's true that ticket prices to Stones shows have outpaced inflation (along with health care and college tuition), but you kind of get the feeling that the same people who are complaining about high ticket prices also rue the fact that Blind Boy Fuller died poor.
The Stones are famously tax-averse. I broach the subject with Keith in Camp X-Ray, as he calls his backstage lair. There is incense in the air and Ronnie Wood drifts in and out--it is, in other words, a perfect venue for such a discussion. "The whole business thing is predicated a lot on the tax laws," says Keith, Marlboro in one hand, vodka and juice in the other. "It's why we rehearse in Canada and not in the U.S. A lot of our astute moves have been basically keeping up with tax laws, where to go, where not to put it. Whether to sit on it or not. We left England because we'd be paying 98 cents on the dollar. We left, and they lost out. No taxes at all. I don't want to screw anybody out of anything, least of all the governments that I work with. We put 30% in holding until we sort it out." No wonder Keith chooses to live not in London, or even New York City, but in Weston, Conn.
Of course, it wasn't just the taxman's pinch that forced the Rolling Stones to focus on the bottom line. They also got screwed by record labels. "In the early days you got paid absolutely nothing," recalls Jagger. "The only people who earned money were the Beatles because they sold so many records."
By the mid-'60s the Stones had reportedly sold ten million singles, including "Satisfaction," and five million albums, but the band was still living hand to mouth. "I'll never forget the deals I did in the '60s, which were just terrible," says Jagger. "You say, 'Oh, I'm a creative person, I won't worry about this.' But that just doesn't work. Because everyone would just steal every penny you've got."
In 1965 the band began to work with Allen Klein, a New York manager, who would help it negotiate a new contract. Klein, now 70, recalls his big day with the band some 37 years later: "I told the guys, 'I want you to come down with me to Decca. Wear dark sunglasses and look angry but don't say anything. Leave the talking to me.'" By intimidating the British record execs, Klein helped land the Stones their first million-dollar payday. Klein (whose company, ABKCO, still owns rights to the Stones' songs from the earliest days through 1971) and the band would have a falling-out and part ways in the early 1970s. With vintage photographs of the Stones covering his office walls, Klein leafs through the old contracts in his office and shakes his head: "The others didn't look at them that much, but I remember Mick would read every single page."
Interestingly, the Stones have never had a blockbuster album, like Fleetwood Mac's Rumours or Michael Jackson's Thriller. But what they have done is make 42 albums. And they've sold tens of millions of those records and CDs, and singles and EPs too. Since 1989 alone, for instance, the band has sold more than 38 million albums at roughly $12 each, for gross proceeds of over $460 million.
The new Stones albums haven't been as hot as the oldies, obviously, but the band has high hopes for the Forty Licks album, due out this fall. The album has 36 of the band's biggest hits, plus four new songs. Also, Allen Klein's ABKCO has just re-released 22 of the band's earlier albums on SACD hybrid, a new CD format (compatible with traditional CD players), including all of the band's great records from the 1960s. In a way, the Stones' older music is like Coke Classic. The band tries to introduce new varieties, some of which do okay, but it's the original stuff we still love the best.
SERWER: Your income must vary all over the place, year by year, because the tours give you this huge bump and then there's nothing.
RICHARDS: But there's always an awful lot of PRS coming in.
SERWER: What the hell is that?
RICHARDS: Performing rights. Every time it's played on the radio. I go to sleep and make money--let's put it that way.
Now this is the Microsoft part of the Stones' business empire. Profitable. Steady. And stretching out to the horizon. "Music publishing is more profitable to the artist than recording. It's just tradition," says Jagger. "There's no rhyme or reason. The people who wrote songs were probably better businesspeople than the people who sang them were. You go back to George Gershwin and his contemporaries--they probably negotiated better deals, and they became the norm of the business. So if you wrote a song, you got half of it, and the other half went to your publisher. That's the model for writing."
And Jagger/Richards have written more than 200 songs. The pair has had a few monster hits like "Honky Tonk Woman," but more significantly they have dozens of songs that are played on FM radio, which is still a vibrant category. And it's not just the radio. Every time "Shattered" or "Jumping Jack Flash" is played anywhere around the globe when commerce is involved--at an ice-skating rink, on a jukebox, or at a club--the Jagger/Richards cash register goes ka-ching.
Again, Jagger is intimately involved in this business. Perhaps the most famous product rollout of all time used a Stones song--Windows 95 and "Start Me Up." Microsoft reportedly paid $4 million for those rights. ("Yeah, we met Bill Gates," says Jagger. "And [Paul] Allen is always around.") Not to be outdone, Apple used "She's a Rainbow" to launch the colored iMacs. But, says Jagger, "we don't really do a lot of commercials. I mean, I'm not against them per se, but we don't do them that much. We do a lot of film licensing. We get lots of requests, and I usually say yes. It's a great business. You have a sort of price that you like to keep to, unless it's a low-budget film and it's a really interesting film--then you can make a deal maybe." Though the cost of buying rights to use a Stones song in a film varies, on average it runs a filmmaker in the low six figures.
Over the past decade FORTUNE estimates that the songwriting team of Jagger/Richards has garnered $56 million from songs being played on radio and in public venues, as well as being used in advertising and movies. A significant chunk of change. "The thing that we all had to learn is what to do when the passion starts to generate money," says Richards. "You don't start to play your guitar thinking you're going to be running an organization that will maybe generate millions."
The tours, the records, the rights: They've all made the Stones the wealthiest rock & roll band on the planet. None more so than Jagger and Richards, who unlike the others enjoy the full fruits of all that licensing. Their portfolios are mostly in the hands of the trusty and tight-lipped Prince Rupert. Though Jagger follows the financial news in the Wall Street Journal and Financial Times, he isn't doing much with stocks these days. "I used to play the market, but I'm not that interested at the moment because I don't think it's a very interesting time," he says.
Keith is more philosophical: "I watch the [Dow] go up and down and wonder. It's like watching the horses really. How much is that an indication of anything? Oh, the Dow's up.... And you go, okay, who's running in the 3:30 at Belmont? I have a small portfolio. I find things I love, like houses--bricks and mortar. Nothing wrong with a bit of land. I've invested in my friends' projects. And there's Rupert. He is a great financial mind for the market. He plays that like I play guitar. He does things like a little oilwell. And currency--you know, Swiss francs in the morning, switch to marks in the afternoon, move to the yen, and by the end of the day, how many dollars? That's his financial genius, his wisdom. Little pieces of paper. As long as there's a smile on Rupert's face, I'm cool."
So what keeps the Stones going? Money, yes. But the band could make big bucks simply by doing commercials instead of touring. Going on the road is about ego gratification. "This whole thing runs on passion," says Richards. "Even though we don't talk about it much ourselves, it's almost a sort of quest or mission."
The Stones and their estates will continue licensing songs and selling records for years. But sooner rather than later, the touring will cease. Jagger's stage antics are remarkable when you consider his age. But how much longer? Charlie Watts, the oldest Stone, is already 61. The band hasn't said this is the last tour, though it could be--and of course that kind of speculation is great for ticket sales, particularly in second-tier cities, where this really could be the Stones' last show.
"How long can we go on?" asks Keith. "Forever. We'll let you know when we keel over." And when that day comes, it will mean not only the end of the world's greatest rock band but also a winding-down of one of the most successful enterprises this crazy business has ever known.
REPORTER ASSOCIATES Julia Boorstin and Ann Harrington
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Tambien que tocaba Mick T el año pasado era???
Esa era una jalada y así fue, Mick Taylor no tocó, pero atreverse a decir que los Stones van a abrir la gira en Argentina es no tener idea de como funcionan los tours. Siempre inician en Estados Unidos ya que ahí es donde más dinero colectan, tienen ahí la mayor parte del público y cobran los precios mas caros. En Argentina tienen muy buen publico pero los boletos se venden casi regalados y lo más que han dado es cinco conciertos seguidos número que no es comparable ni con el Noreste de Estados Unidos. Ahora si que se pasó esta persona, no se midió. Lo que si puede ser es que por el gran afecto de los Stones al público latino lo hicieran si no estuviera Michael Cohl de por medio :evil:
Para mi todo es posible,Argentina significa mucho para la banda,siempre es la gran recarga de energia seria lindo k comenzaran ahi la gira .
Saludos!!!
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Roger, la proxima vez fijate si esta traducido, ESTE FORO ES EN ESPAÑOL.
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Sería algo tan raro que una futura gira de los Stones comenzara en Argentina??
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No seria raro, seria EXTREMADAMENTE raro y economicamente poco factible.
Veo mucho menos raro un cierre de gira en BA que una apertura de gira.
Ahora si de soñar se trata, seria excelente! :wink:
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creo que el razonamiento de max,es 100% acertado
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estimados: emotional, dark H y Mati.
no lo tomen a mal, no hay inconvenientes,
solo un mal entendido nada mas.
Yo respondo por el tema y kaliman esta al tanto de lo que paso.
lo dejamos ahi? chasss gracias
Elimine el cometario de kaliman y voy a sacar sus comentarios sobre esto, para no continuar haciendo de esto algo interminable,
vuelvo a agradecer el gesto
todo OK maestro!!!!!!!!!!!
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en un HIPOTETICO inicio de tour en Argentina
A MI LO QUE ME GUSTARIA SABER VERDADERAMENTE....
ES DONDE TOCARAN EL HABITUAL SHOW DE INICIO EN UN BAR O LOCAL CHICO, COMO HACEN HABITAUALMENTE
ese seria un show increible de ver, sin dudas.. aca o en la China
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estimados: emotional, dark H y Mati.
no lo tomen a mal, no hay inconvenientes,
solo un mal entendido nada mas.
Yo respondo por el tema y kaliman esta al tanto de lo que paso.
lo dejamos ahi? chasss gracias
Elimine el cometario de kaliman y voy a sacar sus comentarios sobre esto, para no continuar haciendo de esto algo interminable,
vuelvo a agradecer el gesto
UFA! :( Extrañaba las peleas y riñas :roll: , los insultos y agresiones :roll: , el bardo y la cizaña :roll: ... ¡MALO MALO MALO, MARCELO MALO :cry: :cry: !
( :lol: :lol: :lol: )
queres bardo te espero en el apartado de futbol,bostero :twisted: :lol:
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No seria raro, seria EXTREMADAMENTE raro y economicamente poco factible.
Veo mucho menos raro un cierre de gira en BA que una apertura de gira.
Ahora si de soñar se trata, seria excelente! :wink:
50% de acuerdo.
Sería extremadamente raro, aunque nada es imposible.
En lo que no concuerdo es que a mi ni siquiera me gustaría que arranquen la gira en Argentina, los prefieron que vengan como siempre a mitad de gira o más porque a esas alturas corrigen errores, mejoran, están más aceitados y rockean más y mejor.... bahhh.... ¿no estaría bueno inventar un nuevo término? STONEAN más y mejor, jeje :wink:
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en un HIPOTETICO inicio de tour en Argentina
A MI LO QUE ME GUSTARIA SABER VERDADERAMENTE....
ES DONDE TOCARAN EL HABITUAL SHOW DE INICIO EN UN BAR O LOCAL CHICO, COMO HACEN HABITAUALMENTE
ese seria un show increible de ver, sin dudas.. aca o en la China
Marcelo hay rumor muy fuerte que los ensayos y el primer show para 300 fans será en Perú, Lima o Cuzco ( Cuzco es porque los stones quieren desarrollar al máximo su capacidad pulmonar )
Pero igual es sólo un rumor como muchos que me pasó un amigo de Woodstock ........................
Lo único que espero es que se de otra gira, recuerdo el hueco del 82 al 89 sin giras de los Stones completos y pensé que ya no los vería mas, fue muy angustiante más aun con las peleas ´vía tabloides de Mick y Keith ........a rezar que se de el Wheel Chair Tour en el 2010 y 2011 como pronosticaron los Simpsons en un capítulo y nos tomemos todos los tragos de la zona como en el 2006 en B Aires que fue impresioante esos shows .
Esta gira de darse y sI comienza por USA que sería lo más lógico SI ME VOY A LAS A LA SPRIMERAS 2 FECHAS y Argertina también está en mis planes si o si
Saludos
Cucho
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Estoy esperando ese momento para visitar Argentina.Es un sueño para mi, ver a los Stones allí y lo tengo que cumplir.
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Estoy esperando ese momento para visitar Argentina.Es un sueño para mi, ver a los Stones allí y lo tengo que cumplir.
yo tambièn deseo ir a verlos por alla...
yo si creo que salgan de gira, ya que se vienen algunos aconteci-
mientos, como el inicio de los juegos olimpicos, no sè pero me late
que tal vez, uuyy..como dudo verdad? la inauguraciòn serìa rokera..
bueno ese es mi sueño..ademàs màs cerca de los 50 de trayectoria..
y espero, con mucha ansiedad, que sorpresa nos tienen estos
"muchachos".
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queres bardo te espero en el apartado de futbol,bostero :twisted: :lol:
Es de poco caballero el aprovecharse del rival cuando éste -ocasionalmente- se encuentra besando la lona :( :roll:
en un HIPOTETICO inicio de tour en Argentina
A MI LO QUE ME GUSTARIA SABER VERDADERAMENTE....
ES DONDE TOCARAN EL HABITUAL SHOW DE INICIO EN UN BAR O LOCAL CHICO, COMO HACEN HABITAUALMENTE
ese seria un show increible de ver, sin dudas.. aca o en la China
Cuentan que una vez hace muchos años, en un pub de jazz que habia en Carlos Paz, una noche apareció sentada en la barra tomando un trago Carmen Mc Rae, una de las 3 o 4 cantantes de jazz mas grandes de la historia; para el rock es como si en una bar de rock´n roll aparece una noche Jagger, o Agnus Young, o McCartney.
Así que con ese antecedente y por una cuestión de cábala, ¡PROPONGO OFICIALMENTE CARLOS PAZ! :twisted: 8)
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che cordobes te acordas cuando con tu complice misionero,nos decian indesingente???????? :twisted:
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lamentablemente por lo descontrolados que somos los fans argentinos,y yo el peor de todos,seria mas que imposible que los stones hicieran algo intimista.........ahora,no delirando un rato ya que estela y marcelo son amigos de bernard fowler,podriamos organizar un encuentro super secreto,solo para miembros del banquete,en la cual quien suscribe promete portarse bien....... :roll: los primeros 5 minutos,al primer redoble de charlie,riff de keith,o fraseo de mick :twisted:
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Lo bueno de todo esto es que YA SE DA POR SABIDO QUE HAY TOUR
Que tambien se da por DESCONTADA que HAY PLAZA SUDAMERICANA, incluyendo varios paises
y esto nos permite imaginar shows.
Aprovechando el tema del Tango como patrimonio de la humanidad, imagino a Keith entonando esta frase (quien la conoce sabra de lo hablo)
"Alguien me dijo una vez, que yo me fui de mi barrio, pero cuando, cuando, si siempre estoy yegando"
(Nocturno a mi barrio/A. Troilo)
:wink: :wink:
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Si el Polaco estuviera vivo y en forma... que subiese a cantar con su estilo y junto a Keith :shock: "This Place is Empty" :roll: :wink:
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A mi me tiro un rumor un amigo de Andorra, que tiene un amigo que vive en Longchamps (conurbano Bonaerense) y fue al Festival "Fierrock" organizado por Pappo, que el primer show lo harian en la cancha de Fenix y la entrada no saldria mas que 1 Patacon. Ojo, no se ilusionen muchachos, es solo un rumor... hay que ver que opinaria el Sr Cohl al respecto.
Saludos!
Lucianito.-
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A mi me tiro un rumor un amigo de Andorra, que tiene un amigo que vive en Longchamps (conurbano Bonaerense) y fue al Festival "Fierrock" organizado por Pappo, que el primer show lo harian en la cancha de Fenix y la entrada no saldria mas que 1 Patacon. Ojo, no se ilusionen muchachos, es solo un rumor... hay que ver que opinaria el Sr Cohl al respecto.
Saludos!
Lucianito.-
:lol: :lol:
Y hay mas :o ! Se comenta tambien que como los Stones estuvieron con Menem y con los K no, cuando actúen Sus Majestades Luis De Lia se va a encargar de organizar un contra-recital con dinero proveniente de Venezuela, con la actuacion de Patricia Sosa, Leon Gieco, Horacio Fontova y demas artistas K, cantando todo el tiempo covers de los Beatles y U2, y con una foto gigante de Bono como fondo con una leyenda que diga "ÉSTE SI QUE ES ROCKERO" :wink:
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El riumor más fuerte que circula en estos momentos es que Michael Jackson se ha ido a esconder a la guarida de Brian Jones en Marruecos ..........los dos aparecerán en el primer tour Stones pero sólo en 2 temas cada uno. THIS IS IT
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sin olvidar la proclama bienvenidos a la nueva argentina!!!!!!!,decile al pelotudo de bono que se saque los lentes oscuros,yo a esta argentina de nueva no le veo nada,al contrario esta bastante usada y abusada
BONO SOS UN LOOOOOSER :evil: :twisted: :lol: :oops: 8)
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jaja todo el spam junto
:P
ojalá haya gira mundial y paso por sudamérica
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Qué lindo sería volver a revivir esos 4 días locos de febrero de 2006.... :D :D :D
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No seria raro, seria EXTREMADAMENTE raro y economicamente poco factible.
Veo mucho menos raro un cierre de gira en BA que una apertura de gira.
Ahora si de soñar se trata, seria excelente! :wink:
Yo cambiaría el "extremadamente raro" a "prácticamente imposible" (digo prácticamente porque nada es imposible :roll: ).
Con respecto al cierre de la gira en Buenos aires puede ser mas factible, aunque lo veo como algo subjetivo del fan argentino a algo que se pueda llegar a dar.
Acá la única verdad es que solo hay rumores... rumores y mas rumores... nada mas...
Saludos!
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queres bardo te espero en el apartado de futbol,bostero
No te agrandes solo porque le ganaste a una empresa... mirá que ya falta poco para que nos volvamos a encontrar... 8)
Saludos!
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che cordobes te acordas cuando con tu complice misionero,nos decian indesingente???????? :twisted:
No hables como si fuera el pasado... es presente y futuro... sos y seguirás siendo INDESINGENTE!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Saludos!
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Lo de cerrar la gira puede ser si. No nos olvidemos que los Guns & Roses cerraron su ultima gira mundial en Bs. As. en el 93
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Los Aerosmith tambien cerraron un tour por estas tierras, a principio de año tocaron y despues volvieron para fin de año y cerraron aca en noviembre de 1994.
Igualmente calculo que los stones el tour del 50tenario lo cerraran en Inglaterra, el famoso "volver a las fuentes".
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Qué lindo sería volver a revivir esos 4 días locos de febrero de 2006.... :D :D :D
Sip eso seria lo mejor ... camaderia como la que vivimos que se vuelva a repetir ... Y DE PASO 2 CONCIERTOS ESPECTACULARES...
Salu2
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El 16 de marzo de ese año Ramones volvió una vez más a la Argentina para dar su último concierto en Sudamérica y, según lo que habían calculado, el último de su carrera. El grupo llenó el estadio Monumental del Club Atlético River Plate con 45.000 personas presenciando el recital. Sin embargo, poco después Ramones decidió tocar en algunos recitales del festival Lollapalooza en los Estados Unidos antes de su separación. Su último recital fue el 6 de agosto de 1996, en The Palace, Los Ángeles y su último disco, We're Outta Here, contiene la grabación de ese concierto.
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Qué lindo sería volver a revivir esos 4 días locos de febrero de 2006.... :D :D :D
Sip eso seria lo mejor ... camaderia como la que vivimos que se vuelva a repetir ... Y DE PASO 2 CONCIERTOS ESPECTACULARES...
Salu2
Y.... ¿alguien tiene alguna duda que no lo volveremos a repetir? Sólo es una cuestión de tiempo, no mucho tampoco :D :D
PS: pelado vos no te los perdés a los Stones de vuelta, si te quedás sin entrada me veré obligado a cederte una mía... así que más vale te la consigas esta vez :twisted: :twisted:
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no te preocupes pocolope,por las dudas ya me compre una 357 :twisted:
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che cordobes te acordas cuando con tu complice misionero,nos decian indesingente???????? :twisted:
No hables como si fuera el pasado... es presente y futuro... sos y seguirás siendo INDESINGENTE!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Saludos!
ya los vamos a agarrar,sabes que dijo el coco????? parece que me queda poco :lol: :lol: :lol:
sabes que le pasa a boca??????? pronto el fondo le toca :lol: :lol: :lol:
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El riumor más fuerte que circula en estos momentos es que Michael Jackson se ha ido a esconder a la guarida de Brian Jones en Marruecos ..........los dos aparecerán en el primer tour Stones pero sólo en 2 temas cada uno. THIS IS IT
...y se están hospedando en la planta superior de Graceland, la mansión de Elvis, viendo la tele con el Rey y bebiendo gatorade... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
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El riumor más fuerte que circula en estos momentos es que Michael Jackson se ha ido a esconder a la guarida de Brian Jones en Marruecos ..........los dos aparecerán en el primer tour Stones pero sólo en 2 temas cada uno. THIS IS IT
...y se están hospedando en la planta superior de Graceland, la mansión de Elvis, viendo la tele con el Rey y bebiendo gatorade... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
y en este momento elvis y keith juegan tiro al blanco con una tv de plasma :shock: :shock: :shock: