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Re: Younger artists you like
Reply #25 - Jun 27^th, 2024 at 9:48am

WaiteringOnAFiend wrote on Jun 27^th, 2024 at 9:05am:

What more do you want?

1) there's this scene in 2019's Joker when Penny Fleck shouts at Arthur
"you're gonna give me a heart attack, i'm not talking to you until you
stop being angry", and Arthur represses himself and replies "okay mom,
i'm not angry"

i think mick has (unlike Arthur, very knowingly) repressed himself on
Hackney and claimed (exactly like Arthur) that he's not angry. That's
basically the theme of the whole album and I don't like it

HOWEVER me not liking it is irrelevant to whether it was the right
approach for the Stones in 2023. I think it was obviously the right
approach as demonstrated by the album's success (especially in
comparison to the 2023 flops from the foos u2 metallica etc)

mick even anticipated the lack of enthusiasm from someone like me
on Mess It Up. "Did you really think i'd mess it up all for you?"

Yes i did. But i've had to face the fact that if Mick had catered
to my sensibilities, and un-repressed himself, and really let the
world have it, the album would have flopped

as if he hasnt proved it to me a thousand times before, mick knows best

2) i forgot about Måneskin, who i did follow for a while after they
opened for the Stones, and so i just checked in on them again,
and their combo of art rock, hard rock, instrumental chops, and
hard-days-night personalities has maintained for them a decent
sized and enthusiastic fan base, especially in non-anglo europe.
good for them. in the category "young rock bands" i guess that
makes them still my pick

(they've even got the balls to include a drum solo in their shows)

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« Last Edit: Jun 27^th, 2024 at 11:32pm by Rev 20 Redlights »

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ronnie-woody

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Re: Younger artists you like
Reply #26 - Jun 27^th, 2024 at 10:40am

Rev, you're saying the Stones should go back to their roots after HD, yet I think if you look at every single one of those songs separately, you could find each of them on another of their prior records, what most easily comes to mind right away is SSOH could be on Exile, I mean listen to that instrumental, that just screams Exile at you, then Driving Me Too Hard could be on Steel Wheels, look at the lyrics, it's obvious it's about a time where Mick and Keith didn't get along too well, it's comparable to Mixed Emotions lyrics wise, or maybe also to Baby, Break It Down on Voodoo Lounge, then Rolling Stone Blues could obviously be on Blue and Lonesome, BMHO could be on Some Girls or maybe on Tattoo You, just to name some examples

Thanks for sharing that vid of Sabrina Carpenter, I had no clue of her existence until yesterday when I stumbled upon some idiotic gutter press article talking about the way millennials are wearing socks vs Gen Z and she was pictured as an example for Gen Z and I was like lol idek who she is...her music is too radio-pop-like for my taste...tbh the only younger female pop artist that I like is Lady Gaga, the other ones aren't pop xD

Also Måneskin is amazing, I saw them live last year, here if you wanna check out a vid I took, but their fans made me feel old cause they all were in their late teens or early 20s at most and therefore about a decade younger than I Grin

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« Last Edit: Jun 27^th, 2024 at 10:45am by ronnie-woody »

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WaiteringOnAFiend Rocks Off Regular Offline Rocks Off Rules You Bastards Posts: 1,595	Re: Younger artists you like Reply #27 - Jun 27^th, 2024 at 6:01pm Anyone who likes their mo'fo said/done English/Mancunian style, with quite a bit of Stones in there and funky trousers should hear again 'Shake Your Money' by Black Grape; a tune surely built on the keyboard riff of 'Miss You' and in which the 'ooo-ooo' is pronounced like Jimmy Saville done by Jerry Sadowitz. Suuper.'
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Rev 20 Redlights

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Re: Younger artists you like
Reply #28 - Jun 28^th, 2024 at 6:24am

ronnie-woody wrote on Jun 27^th, 2024 at 10:40am:

Rev, you're saying the Stones should go back to their roots after HD, yet I think if you look at every single one of those songs separately, you could find each of them on another of their prior records....

Also Måneskin is amazing, I saw them live last year, here if you wanna check out a vid I took...

1) cool vid, r-w, thanks. i take it that's a german crowd singing along
in italian ? impressive

most of the live vids i've seen from them have been at festivals,
which seems to be their bread and butter, so i wouldnt argue if
someone were to brand them as "festival rock"

but this somewhat less frenetic song/vid of theirs remains my fave

2) i shouldnt have used the word "roots". i tried (and failed) to
distinguish what i meant by using the phrase "$%?&# roots"
because i wasnt really referring to the music. i was trying to
reference their historic importance as resistance artists and
cultural commentators, which usually has entailed a bit of nastiness
and controversy.

but i'm aware this is my private thing. i've been careful not to
criticize either the band or the fans for not sharing my obsession
with this particular aspect of the Stones. i've been happy for
the near-unanimous happiness that this album has caused,
even if i don't feel it myself...

one more thought: last week when i was deep into the kendrick-drake
battle royale, spontaneously in my head "live by the sword" started
playing (until then one of my least favorite, least listened-to songs
on Hackney). and while retrieving the lyrics to post on this
thread, i could hear the stonesiness of the music for the first time
with clarity, and appreciate it more or less i'm guessing like many/most
here do.

i mean, in a similar vein, why did it take me about ten years to
appreciate "Citadel"?

its just how i'm wired. sometimes i get things instantly that other
people are struggling with, and sometimes the opposite.
Because when it come to music i'm an emotional guy and a
stubborn kind of fella. but i'm never trying to rain on anybody
else's parade. i went quiet around here for six months to
avoid just that.

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Re: Younger artists you like
Reply #29 - Jun 29^th, 2024 at 4:52am

Yes, I do understand what you mean by "their historic importance as resistance artists and
cultural commentators" but it's not like they have had countless of songs about social or political topics on every single record

There is Sweet Neo Con on ABB, none on Bridges to Babylon, Blinded By Rainbows on Voodoo Lounge, Rock and a Hard Place on Steel Wheels, none on Dirty Work, maybe Slave on Tattoo You if you interpret it as a criticism of capitalism, Indian Girl on Emotional Rescue, It Must Be Hell (and maybe Undercover) on Undercover, When the Whip Comes Down on Some Girls, none on Black&Blue, Heartbreaker on Goats Head Soup, none on Sticky Fingers (unless you interpret Brown Sugar like Keith suggested as a potrayal of the horrors of slavery idk), none on Exile, Gimme Shelter on Let it Bleed, SFM and Salt of the Earth on Beggars Banquet, can't tell anything about Satanic Majesties and all the records before because I never really listen to them much xD

But as you see, ever since the 70s there has been only at most 1 song on their albums that could be classified as social commentatory, so it's not like they make stuff all the time like e.g. French hip hop artists Kemy Arkana who basically only has social crirical lyrics about French society amd politics

Edit: I just remembered that Mick said last year that Angry was supposed to be aboht the difficulties of our current times making people Angry and I really wish he would have written that instead of those dumb, lazy lyrics it got instead, maybe then I'd like the song more, but overall I didn't enjoy it much live and I wish they'd play Get Close or Depending on You or Driving Me Too Hard or BMHO, or ANY other HD song instead, because tbh after hearing Angry and Mess it Up (which I didn't enjoy much on the record at first) live, I gotta admit that while I loved MiU, Angry hands down is the weakest and worst song on the entire album and imo the only reason they made it the first single is their marketing with the "Don't Get Angry With Me" and bursting glass because it fits the entire Hackney Diamonds theme...

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« Last Edit: Jun 29^th, 2024 at 4:59am by ronnie-woody »

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Re: Younger artists you like
Reply #30 - Jun 29^th, 2024 at 5:05am

Also about Måneskin, to get back on topic Wink

I saw them at their own show, not a festival but yes they seem to play many festivals...also loads of Italians watching my vid commented as well on how Germans knew every single word of the lyrics in Italian and I have read of fans online who learned Italian just because of Måneskin, which kinda reminded me of the mid-2000s when German teen rock band Tokio Hotel was popular and all the French and Italian teen girls started learning German to understand lyrics Grin

well tbh it'a one of the best ways to learn a language, in middle school and high school my teachers were regularly impressed by my vast vocabulary cause I knew way more words than we had learned and one teacher asked me why so and I said because I translate my favourite band's songs and interviews (at that time in the late 2000s it was 30 Seconds to Mars who sadly suck now)

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Re: Younger artists you like
Reply #31 - Jun 29^th, 2024 at 9:25am

r-w, we're gonna have to drop this "social/cultural commentary" discussion
because we're talking about two different things. You're talking about
politics and I'm not. As an example, for me, every single song on
the Dirty Work album is aggressive social/cultural commentary,
and for you its not, so we've got no way forward on this...

so, getting back on topic, i've favorably mentioned two young
rapper/rockers on this thread, post malone and machine gun kelly,
and right now both are having success with good country music songs,
which appeals to me not just musically but socially and culturally
as well

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WaiteringOnAFiend Rocks Off Regular Offline Rocks Off Rules You Bastards Posts: 1,595	Re: Younger artists you like Reply #32 - Jun 29^th, 2024 at 9:42am Not sure if he'd like to told so, but Rev seems right and dandy on both counts.
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Re: Younger artists you like
Reply #33 - Jun 29^th, 2024 at 9:56am

I see we have a completely different definition as to what counts as social/cultural commentary, Rev, and I'm asking this not to challenge you, but because I'm actually interested and wanna try to understand where you're coming from, so since you say you define every song on Dirty Work like that, can you explain to me about Had It With You? Because Keith has admitted to writing this song about Mick and their differences at the time, and as I see it, this is about an interpersonal conflict (as many other songs on Dirty Work as well), so it seems to me, but maybe I'm understand it wrong and please emlighten me, that for you, when you're saying social commentary, you mean interactions and stuff between people? But what makes the lyrics to e.g. Depending on You or Driving Me Too Hard different from that then, so that it won't count? I'm honestly interested here^^

Also I listened to the two YT videos, the one by Post Malone sounds like something you'd wanna turn up the radio and sing along to while driving it'sfun! And I have never listened to a song by MGK before, but his voice aounds nice

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lotsajizz Rocks Off Regular Offline Rocks Off Rules You Bastards Posts: 1,818 Rhode Island Gender:	Re: Younger artists you like Reply #34 - Jun 29^th, 2024 at 10:31am Black Angels, King Gizzard & The Wizard Lizard, Wooden Shjps
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Rev 20 Redlights

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Re: Younger artists you like
Reply #35 - Jun 29^th, 2024 at 10:51am

thanks for smoothing the waters, r-w

okay, i'll try to be brief. it is my perception that

1)"you" is very commonly used in jagger's lyrics quite literally, that is,
to refer to his listeners. now obviously his listeners are a very diverse
bunch so he's conceptualizing them all together as sort of one person,
and he then addresses that person very similarly to how live, particularly
pre-89 when Stones audiences were a sort of beast, mick would vibe out
an audience and adjust his performance to best incite us. He'd try to
make us his bitch, and would thankfully often succeed.

2) this use of "you" as i said is common, but its not some kind of iron
clad rule. "you" can mean keith, also "I" can mean not Mick but Keith,
since it is keith's music/emotions that mick is interpreting lyrically.
further, in my opinion, mick and keith's relationship has been at
times so important that references to it by either party have resonated
across the wider culture

3) and of course besides his audience as his metaphorical woman,
there are the actual women in mick and keith's lives, who have
been generally extremely strong and reflective of their eras, so
if the lyrics reference any of them it often had broader implications

so, if you take this kind of approach to his lyrics, its not like you have
some kind of rosetta stone, to get an exact answer. All you get
is the basis of a discussion on what the Stones were saying, most
importantly, about us at that particular time. About what were Mick
and Keith's emotions at that particular time on that particular day
about being a rolling stone...

so "had it with you" becomes (at least for me) one hell of an example

And I love you, dirty fucker
Sister and a brother
Moaning in the moonlight
Singing for your supper

Always try to taunt me
Always seem to haunt me
Serving out injunctions
Shouting out instructions

I love you with a passion
In and out of fashion
Always up behind you
Others tried to blind you

It is such a sad thing
To watch a love go dry
I've had it up to here, babe
I've got to say goodbye

Yeah, you loved me in your lean years
Loved you in the fat ones
You're a mean mistreater
You're a dirty, dirty rat scum

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Re: Younger artists you like
Reply #36 - Jun 30^th, 2024 at 2:16am

Thanks for the explanation, I'm kinda agreeing with parts you mentioned in point 2 and 3 but I don't see the "you" in this song as referring in a common, broader sense, I get what you mean by this in general tho, best example coming to mind immediately is Satisfaction where the "I" isn't Mick himself but every single one of us...but I don't see this much in the "you" of Had It With You and actually think this one is much more personal and not some abstraction...but hey, reading and understanding song lyrics is like interpreting poems back in literature class in high school, as long as your argumentation was great, the teacher still would give you a good grade even if your interpretation was different from another classmate's and yet another one's and even from the teacher's one Grin

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Rev 20 Redlights Rocks Off Regular Online Rocks Off Rules You Bastards Posts: 2,001	Re: Younger artists you like Reply #37 - Jun 30^th, 2024 at 2:22am agreed
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Re: Younger artists you like
Reply #38 - Jul 1^st, 2024 at 10:20am

I enjoy most of the newer bands I hear on Channel 21, LSUG.
The greatest radio station in the world as they play a min of 1 or 2 Stones songs per hour it seems,
as well as the best punk, surf, and girl bands around.

I also seem to already be fans of 1-3 of the Stones opening acts in Europe every tour...The Kooks, Struts, Vaccines, et al

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philgood Rocks Off Regular Offline Posts: 410 Cologne Area, Germany Gender:	Re: Younger artists you like Reply #39 - Jul 1^st, 2024 at 11:16am Justin Johnson https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1kIqKA1SOg
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Voodoo Chile in Wonderland Unholy Trinity Admin Online The Stones are back you bastards!!!! Posts: 17,956 Wonderland Gender:	Re: Younger artists you like Reply #40 - Jul 1^st, 2024 at 11:48am philgood wrote on Jul 1^st, 2024 at 11:16am: Justin Johnson https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1kIqKA1SOg Love it! I can hear HTW many times and never will be tired of it, and there are some great covers, this was great, with a feeling
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Elliott_Is_Crazy Rocks Off Regular Offline Creator of E-Dude Talks Music. Posts: 20 Colorado Gender:	Re: Younger artists you like Reply #41 - Jul 5^th, 2024 at 4:37pm Not sure how many of y'all dig this band, but I have had Twenty One Pilots on repeat lately. I feel like they're one of the few alternative pop bands who have been consistently good their entire career. I'm looking forward to seeing them August 16 at Ball Arena in Denver, too!!
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Rev 20 Redlights Rocks Off Regular Online Rocks Off Rules You Bastards Posts: 2,001	Re: Younger artists you like Reply #42 - Jul 20^th, 2024 at 8:31am another very good andrew watt-produced track has entered the Top Ten i really wish i felt the same way about watt's production on Hackney anyway, even though she's drifted in and out of my consciousness for about a decade now, i think she still qualifies as young...
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ronnie-woody Rocks Off Regular Offline Rocks Off Rules You Bastards Posts: 1,056 Gender:	Re: Younger artists you like Reply #43 - Jul 20^th, 2024 at 9:43am I like Lana del Rey but not that particular vid you posted...don't enjoy that guy rapping...but I love Summertime Sadness
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Goo Rocks Off Regular Offline Rocks Off Rules You Bastards Posts: 1,041 USA Gender:	Re: Younger artists you like Reply #44 - Jul 20^th, 2024 at 2:52pm Not really younger but I like Rico Rodriguez Nick cave Lucinda Williams
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ronnie-woody Rocks Off Regular Offline Rocks Off Rules You Bastards Posts: 1,056 Gender:	Re: Younger artists you like Reply #45 - Jul 25^th, 2024 at 4:14am Listening to the newest album by Barns Courtney that came out last week or so, it's pretty good! Not one song on it that I dislike also I think Rev would have fun with the lyrics of that one, loads of social criticism and stuff in there for him to interpret, if you wanna check it out, and I mean this entirely unironical
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Re: Younger artists you like
Reply #46 - Jul 25^th, 2024 at 5:46am

r-w, i'm mostly like everybody else here, i pay almost no
attention to lyrics

mick is the only exception, and even then, its only
something i eventually get around to. I'm a music guy,
so much so that i'm often unable to sing along accurately
to my favorite songs

Mick is the exception because my experience with mick's
lyrics is that there's almost always buried treasure
there. Sometimes VERY buried, as with Hackney. Took me
nine months to find it...

The most important point i've been making during my
30 years online is that Mick's full meaning is often
INTENTIONALLY buried. The literary device he uses
is known as SIGNIFYING.

Signifying originated during slavery days as the method
slaves used to communicate important information amongst
themselves, within easy earshot of the slavemaster, without
the slavemaster knowing what they were saying. Something
as simple as "I'll be going to church on Sunday" might mean
there was gonna be a helluva party on Saturday night down
by the river...

Here's something from Wikipedia, about how signifying has
been used in black music ever since:

"...it uses material rhetorically or figuratively by
trifling with, teasing, or censuring it in some way.
Signifying is also a way of demonstrating respect for,
goading, or poking fun at a musical style, process,
or practice through parody, pastische, implication,
indirection, humor, tone- or word-play, the illusions
of speech, or narration, and other troping mechanisms...
Signifying shows, among other things, either reverence
or irreverence toward previously stated musical statements
and values."

i've written tons on this topic over the years, generally
to no avail, so i won't waste any more of my breath today.

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Paranoid Android Rocks Off Regular Offline The Rocks Off Ladies Rule You Bastards!! Posts: 6,342 Chapel Hill, NC Gender:	Re: Younger artists you like Reply #47 - Jul 25^th, 2024 at 6:38pm Charli XCX...she's edgy enough...and really not too threatening...shes a hustler
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Re: Younger artists you like
Reply #48 - Jul 27^th, 2024 at 3:06am

Hahah, then I got the wrong impression, Rev, was thinking the way you were interpreting all that stuff into those lyrics it's one of your special interests or something in general^^

I always loved doing this with lyrics and poems (literature major in high school Tongue

) but by now I only try to interpret certain songs...

Also thanks for pointing out signifying, I don't recall that stylistic device, probably cause it's not only looking at the texts but also the way they are performed...I guess Far Away Eyes would be a good example for poking fun at a musical style cause Mick certainly isn't taking country music seriously here Grin

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Goo Rocks Off Regular Offline Rocks Off Rules You Bastards Posts: 1,041 USA Gender:	Re: Younger artists you like Reply #49 - Jul 27^th, 2024 at 11:52am La Lom Raul malo
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