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Re: Brown Sugar dropped?
Reply #50 - Dec 1^st, 2021 at 7:41am

i'm not saying jagger intended this, but it doesnt take too much imagination
to apply his infamous lyric, metaphorically at least, to Ike Turner

scarred old slaver's doing alright
hear him whip the women just around midnight

I've seen Ike and Tina clips all my life, but somehow never a whole show,
or even them opening 1969 Detroit, which i skipped to hang out and get
high with friends before the Stones took the stage.

Eagle Rock has posted an hour-long 1971 Ike and Tina show, which gives
a better perspective, puts their art in broader context, as far as the history
of music goes...

Viewed from a certain distance, Ike and Tina's Revue certainly shares more
than a few similarities with the approach of the current 10-piece touring
outfit known as the Rolling Stones

Ike Turner began playing piano and guitar as a child and then formed the
Kings of Rhythm as a teenager. His first recording, "Rocket 88" is considered
a contender for the distinction of first rock and roll song.

During the 1950s, Turner also worked as a talent scout and producer for
Sun Records and Modern Records. He was instrumental in the early careers
of various blues musicians such as B.B. King, Howlin' Wolf, and Bobby "Blue" Bland.

In 1954, Turner relocated to East St. Louis where his Kings of Rhythm became one
of the most renowned acts in Greater St. Louis. He later formed the Ike & Tina
Turner Revue in 1960, which over the course of the decade became a soul/rock
crossover success.

Hailed as a "great innovator" of rock and roll by contemporaries such as
Little Richard and Johnny Otis, Turner was one of the first guitarists to
successfully transplant the intensity of the blues into more-commercial music.

“When I met her she was Anna Mae. I was the one who turned her into
Tina Turner. I had to tell her how to dress, how to walk and how to talk
on stage. I told her how to stand and how to look, the whole thing, man,
I mean from the wig down.”

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andrews27

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Re: Brown Sugar dropped?
Reply #51 - Dec 1^st, 2021 at 12:13pm

I think it was actually Ike whipping the women in that period. His "Beatle haircut" phase was his dumbest attempt at prolonging his relevance, which he lost completely when he lost Tina.

He was a two-and-a-half hit wonder, starting with Rocket 88, then two covers he got out of Tina's sweat appeal: Proud Mary and River Deep-Mountain High. River Deep remains only half a hit, because it flopped in America, being unlistenable on portable radios and phonograms due to Spector's frenetic, hophead production. (I was there, and heard it.)

All this puts Ike a step behind Isaac Hayes in influence. If this seems cruel, well - sorry, Ike. You bit that cruelty like it was a hot dog.

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That guy that punched Mick at Altamont...and all the Hell's Angels...all that bad acid let them hear A Bigger Bang!!

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Re: Brown Sugar dropped?
Reply #52 - Dec 1^st, 2021 at 3:07pm

andrews27 wrote on Dec 1^st, 2021 at 12:13pm:

He was a two-and-a-half hit wonder, starting with Rocket 88, then two covers he got out of Tina's sweat appeal: Proud Mary and River Deep-Mountain High.

Got it. Thanks. That's helpful. I'll remember to evaluate pioneering black
musicians only by the amount of hits they had on white radio

Rev 20 Redlights wrote on Nov 26^th, 2021 at 4:52pm:

In a new interview with Spin, singer Claudia Lennear said audiences were
“missing out on a great part of rock ’n’ roll history” via the absence of
Brown Sugar. “When do we learn to understand history without
getting upset?”

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andrews27

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Re: Brown Sugar dropped?
Reply #53 - Dec 1^st, 2021 at 3:44pm

Got it. Thanks. That's helpful. I'll remember to evaluate pioneering black
musicians only by the amount of hits they had on white radio

Which was the audience market Ike was aiming for in the 1960s-1970s. And in acquiescing to Tina working with Spector, which otherwise bristled him. How'd he do on the Black charts in this period? Did he care? Who was the audience for a soul revue at that time?

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« Last Edit: Dec 1^st, 2021 at 3:47pm by andrews27 »

That guy that punched Mick at Altamont...and all the Hell's Angels...all that bad acid let them hear A Bigger Bang!!

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Re: Brown Sugar dropped?
Reply #54 - Dec 1^st, 2021 at 4:23pm

The Kings of Rhythm are an American rhythm and blues and soul group
formed in the late 1940s in Clarksdale, Mississippi and led by Ike Turner
through to his death in 2007.

1951: "Heartbroken and Worried" / "I'm Lonesome Baby" (Chess 1459) – Ike Turner And His Kings of Rhythm,
1952: "My Heart Belongs To You" / "Looking for My Baby"(RPM 362) – Bonnie and Ike Turner With Orchestra Acc.
1954: "Sinners Dream" / "Stay At Home" (Checker 792) – Eugene Fox
1954: "Wicked Little Baby" / "Why Don't You Believe In Me" (Modern 929) – Clayton Love
1954: "I Miss You So" / "Early Times" (Modern 930) – Dennis Binder & His Orchestra
1954: "The Snuggle"/ "Bourbon Street Jump" (Sun 204) – Raymond Hill
1954: "Baby Please" / "Gypsy Blues" (Flair 1037) – Matt Cockrell
1954: "The Drean (Part 1)" / "The Dream (Part 2) (RPM 420) – The Fox
1956: "As Long As I Have You" / "I Wanna Make Love To You" (RPM 446) – The Trojans
1956: "What Am I To Do" / "I'll Die In Love With You" (Federal 12267) – The Rockers
1956: "My Baby's Tops" / "Flaming Tops" (Federal 12284) – The Gardenias
1956: "I'm Tore Up" / "If I Never Had Known You" (Federal 12265) – Billy Gayles with Ike Turner's Rhythm Rockers
1956: "Do Right Baby" / "No Coming Back" (Federal 12282) – Billy Gayles With Ike Turner's Kings Of Rhythm
1957: "Much Later" / "The Mistreater" (Federal 12291) – Jackie Brenston With Ike Turner's Kings Of Rhythm
1957: "What Can It Be" / "Gonna Wait For My Chance" (Federal 12283) – Jackie Brenston With Ike Turner's Kings Of Rhythm
1957: "Do You Mean It" / "She Made My Blood Run Cold" (Federal 12297) – Ike Turner And His Orchestra
1958: "Boxtop" / "Chalypso Love Cry" (Tune Town 501) – Ike Turner, Carlson Oliver, Little Ann
1959: "Box Top" / "Walking Down The Aisle" (Cobra 5033) – Ike Turner's Kings of Rhythm
1959: "(I Know) You Don't Love Me" / "Down & Out" (Artistic 1504) – Ike Turner's Kings of Rhythm, vocal by Tommy Hodge
1961: "Crackerjack" / "Gettin' Late" (Crackerjack 4000) – Ike Turner's Kings of Rhythm
1962: "Prancing" / "It's Gonna Work Out Fine" (Sue 760) – Ike & Tina's Kings of Rhythm
1962: "Drifting" / "Love You Baby" (Kent 45x378) – Ike Turner And His Orchestra, vocal by Bobby "Blue" Bland
1963: "Lonely Soldier" / "The Bad Man" (Sony 111) – Bobby John
1963: "Remove My Doubts" / "Don't Believe 'Em" (Sony 113) – Stacy Johnson
1963: "What's That You've Got" / "Need My Help" (Sony 114) – Ernest Lane
1964: "Anything - To Make It With You" / "Walking Down The Isle" (Sonja 2007) – Vernon Guy
1964: "Getting Nasty" / "Nutting Up" (Sonja 5001) – Nasty Minds
1965: "The New Breed (Pt. 1)" / "The New Breed (Pt. 2)" (Sue 138) – Ike Turner & His Kings of Rhythm

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Rev 20 Redlights Rocks Off Regular Offline Rocks Off Rules You Bastards Posts: 2,004	Re: Brown Sugar dropped? Reply #55 - Dec 3^rd, 2021 at 5:17am
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Re: Brown Sugar dropped?
Reply #56 - Dec 3^rd, 2021 at 5:18am

Sotheby's:

Jagger, Mick
10 autograph letters signed to Marsha Hunt

A remarkable series of passionate, thoughtful and articulate love letters
written whilst filming Ned Kelly in Australia in 1969, when Jagger was at
the height of his creative powers and the potent symbol of rebellious youth
and social change, written to his lover, the image of “Black is Beautiful”
and the inspiration for “Brown Sugar”

“... I feel with you something so unsung there is no need to sing it...”

References to poetry, responses to the Australian landscape, and anxiety
about the future of his relationship with Hunt co-exist with the familiar
Jagger swagger of deliberately mis-spelt words, surreal flights of fancy,
and raw sexual desire.

This outpouring of words was inspired by a suitably extraordinary woman.
Marsha Hunt has been described as London’s Josephine Baker: strikingly
beautiful with a distinctive Afro hairstyle, educated, highly articulate, and
ambitious. Hunt’s family came from the Mississippi delta but she was born
in Philadelphia and attended the University of California, Berkeley, before
coming to London in 1966. She soon became part of the blues circuit (from
which the Stones had emerged earlier in the decade) where she sang
with Alexis Korner and a young Elton John, and lived for a while with
the influential bluesman John Mayall...

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Re: Brown Sugar dropped?
Reply #57 - Dec 3^rd, 2021 at 8:24pm

Sotheby's (continued)

In the spring of 1969 Hunt was contacted by the Stones' office and invited
to appear in a photo shoot, posing in “tarty” clothes alongside the band
as publicity for their forthcoming single “Honky Tonk Women”: she refused
on the grounds that she did not wish to look like she had “just been had by
all the Rolling Stones”. Shortly afterwards, as Hunt recalled in her 1986 memoir
Real Life, Jagger appeared unannounced at her Bloomsbury flat:
"framed by the doorway as he stood grinning with a dark coat ... He drew
one hand out of his pocket and pointed it at me like a pistol ... 'Bang'."
The two embarked on a passionate, but initially very private, affair, at
a time when an inter-racial relationship was then charged to an extent
that is difficult to imagine today. Jagger had, of course, always been
enthralled by American black culture and the Rolling Stones had long
played a part in “soft” integration by introducing their largely white
audience to black music; here, again, he was at the crest of a wave,
and Jagger and Hunt’s relationship was a potent symbol of a new sexual
and racial order. In 1970 Hunt became the mother to Jagger's first child.

Black boys are delicious
Chocolate flavored love
Licorice lips like candy
Keep my cocoa handy

White boys are so pretty
Skin as smooth as milk
White boys are so pretty
Hair like Chinese silk

How much?
$301,000 Dec 2012.
Ever published?
Pretty sure not.
Who bought them?
Dunno. Probably Mick.

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Re: Brown Sugar dropped?
Reply #58 - Dec 5^th, 2021 at 9:09am

Marsha:

The passage of time has given these letters a place in our cultural history.
1969 saw the ebbing of a crucial, revolutionary era, highly influenced by such
artists as The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, James Brown and Bob Dylan.
Their inner thoughts should not be the property of only their families, but
the public at large, to reveal who these influential artists were - not as
commercial images, but their private selves.

There's nothing salacious in the letters. This is somebody reflecting what
is going on in his life at a particular time when, because of his age - he
was actually 25 when he went off to Australia - you're really looking at
somebody in their artistic prime, talking about filming, talking about music,
talking about the future, and they are reflective. There has been a growing
50-year history of this person as a writer and as an influence upon young
people. It would have been criminal for these letters not to become public.
One has to look at the fact that he has become historically important.

Legal note: unfortunately Sotheby's did not agree with Marsha, and very much
limited public access to the contents so as not to be sued by the copyright holder.

By way of background, Marsha Hunt began her rise to fame as a model...

...but she wouldn't hit it big until she started wearing her hair in what
at that time was called a "natural", getting the cover of british Vogue
with her famous nude shot (see previous post), a full five years before
american Vogue had its first black cover girl

(the term "afro" came a bit later)

Essence magazine credits two women with first popularizing the style.
Marsha Hunt and sweet black Angela Davis

more about both women when The Brown Sugar Chronicles continue...

however we will be entirely ignoring this incident:

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Re: Brown Sugar dropped?
Reply #59 - Dec 7^th, 2021 at 9:01am

Rev 20 Redlights wrote on Nov 28^th, 2021 at 12:07pm:

Tina:

I also believe in the Ikette visual. I always loved the look of long straight hair.
Ike says he patterned me after Sheena of the jungle. And I still love the look
and action of long hair moving and the short skirts shimmying.

Rev 20 Redlights wrote on Dec 1^st, 2021 at 7:41am:

Raven (Dec 1):

Viewed from a certain distance, Ike and Tina's Revue certainly shares more
than a few similarities with the approach of the current 10-piece touring
outfit known as the Rolling Stones

Steve (Dec 6):

There are a couple of things with “Satisfaction.” I miss the Brian Jones acoustic
guitar part. I miss that when I’m playing it. Maybe one day, that’ll happen.
But currently it’s more of a kind of almost Revue approach, which is how
Otis Redding did “Satisfaction” with the MG’s. It’s brighter, faster tempo-wise,
so I give it more of an Al Jackson approach. The stomp beat is how I approach it
since we play it faster than the record. The record has this push and pull with
the acoustic guitar off the lead riff and the way Charlie plays the beat. When it’s
faster and there’s no acoustic guitar, it’s a different animal.

Ike and Tina Revue at the max 14 members

Mick and Keith Revue at the max 15 members

1) its a crime we don't have a similar posed photo for every Stones line-up

2) don't worry, all you Angela Davis fans, that episode is still on its way,
when The Brown Sugar Chronicles continue...

Whoa! Just stumbled upon this, from earlier this year, featuring Carla Thomas

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Rev 20 Redlights Rocks Off Regular Offline Rocks Off Rules You Bastards Posts: 2,004	Re: Brown Sugar dropped? Reply #60 - Dec 9^th, 2021 at 3:39pm i Rev 20 Redlights wrote on Dec 7^th, 2021 at 9:01am: Whoa! Just stumbled upon this, from earlier this year, featuring Carla Thomas i didnt remember that valerie was one of the openers for Stones hyde park
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Re: Brown Sugar dropped?
Reply #61 - Dec 9^th, 2021 at 3:39pm

Got a sweet black angel
Got a pin up girl
Got a sweet black angel
Up upon my wall

A selection of her many posters from that time period:

particularly popular, for some odd reason, were posters of Angela smoking.
I had the two posters to the right up upon my dorm room wall

jagger's key lines, and very funny ones...

She's a sweet black angel
Not a gun toting teacher
Not a Red loving schoolmarm

...because on the contrary that is exactly what she was.
She admitted buying the guns that were used to kill the judge,
and she was a proud orthodox Communist who loved the Soviet
Union and East Germany. She claimed there were ZERO political
prisoners in any of the Communist countries

Mick's words, as usual, drip with nuance and irony. At the same
time, he 1) appreciates the folk hero mythology that erupted
around her, 2) condemns the legally baseless murder charge
brought against her by the government, and 3) clearly distances
himself from the stupidity of her stalinesque politics.

in short, she was a perfect resistance symbol, but a terrible
resistance leader

Compare Mick's sardonic lyrics with the ludicrous fawning
nursery rhymes of Loko (Lennon-yOKO), in their tune "Angela",
released one month after Exile (its on youtube, but i'm
not gonna link to it, the music is even worse than the words)

Angela, you're still a people teacher
Angela, your word reaches far
Angela, you're one of the millions of
political prisoners in the world

They gave you sunshine
They gave you sea
They gave you everything but the jailhouse key
They gave you everything but equality

But Loko were hardly the only ones who went overboard with
their virtue signaling...

Neil Young and Marsha Hunt

...as we'll see next time when The Brown Sugar Chronicles continue

various bootlegs strung together with Otis Taylor's version
(warning: contains provocative images)

marsha hunt or angela davis or both?

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Rev 20 Redlights Rocks Off Regular Offline Rocks Off Rules You Bastards Posts: 2,004	Re: Brown Sugar dropped? Reply #62 - Dec 13^th, 2021 at 5:11pm The Brown Sugar Chronicles will return in 2022... Meanwhile, Marsha Hunt wishes you a Merry XXmas... As do I of course... ...because no matter what anybody says I know deep down in my heart that Y'all are Rock Stars !!!
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Voodoo Chile in Wonderland Unholy Trinity Admin Offline The Stones are back you bastards!!!! Posts: 17,957 Wonderland Gender:	Re: Brown Sugar dropped? Reply #63 - Dec 15^th, 2021 at 11:08am Rev 20 Redlights wrote on Dec 13^th, 2021 at 5:11pm: As do I of course... Thanks!!
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Rev 20 Redlights Rocks Off Regular Offline Rocks Off Rules You Bastards Posts: 2,004	Re: Brown Sugar dropped? Reply #64 - Mar 9^th, 2022 at 6:53pm Hey rolling stones, IF you do decide to tour this year, i know you won't be allowed to play Brown Sugar yet, but how about y'all covering this one instead? Seriously Even if you have to change it to Run Brother Run (obviously it would work best with billy preston, but i'm sure chuck and matt could handle it)
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Some Guy Rocks Off Regular Offline Posts: 16,085 Atlanta Gender:	Re: Brown Sugar dropped? Reply #65 - Mar 24^th, 2022 at 7:34am Will they play Brown Sugar this go?
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