MUSIC

Charlie Watts: Rolling Stones drummer at 80

For almost 60 years, Charlie Watts has set the pace for the Rolling Stones. As the drummer celebrates his 80th birthday, he's going back on the road with the band.



https://www.dw.com/en/charlie-watts-rolling-stones-drummer-at-80/a-57727613

A toast

The Greatest Drummer
Happy Birthday

Lots of love all around for Charlie - nothing bad can be said about him. He's the heartbeat of the band!

Ian Billen wrote on Sep 9^th, 2021 at 10:29am:


They are generally very protective of their private lives, no one more so than Charlie. I obviously don't know them, but assuming that the less they say about it, the less his loved ones have to respond to media pestering at a time they just want to grieve.

Voodoo Chile in Wonderland wrote on Sep 9^th, 2021 at 1:29pm:




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Yezz quite True Sir.

Thanks for the little reminder about that, Voodoo

Ian Billen wrote on Sep 9^th, 2021 at 10:29am:


Hiding the facts?

Christ on a bike.

FFS - he was an 80 year old man.  This is hardly Kurt Cobain or Princess Diana stuff.  Who in their right mind would see a 'conspiracy' ?

Nobody's 'hiding' anything.  He was a private individual and his family's reluctance to make a song and dance about it reflects that.

Gazza wrote on Sep 9^th, 2021 at 5:32pm:




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Positively they knew and it was a conspiracy in a sense (the band knew well before the tour was announced he was not going to make the tour and further that he was gravely ill yet they acted as if it was a total suprise (at the time of the tour announcment Charlie Wattsd was already gravely ill in a hospital and had been for weeks. They knew he was not going to make the tour. They knew he was not going to live. Kenny Jones knew as well. He was admitted to the hospital in June Gazza. At the time of the tour announcement he was already in the hospital. By July they knew he was gravely ill.

Charlie made that statment .. for the benefit of Stones fans.

The bands statment said they didnt see this coming.


They did. Kenny Jones knew as well. It <was> a conspiracy as to the why and how and future of Watts health. By the time the Faces reuinited with Watts and the tour announcment was made they all knew Charlie was gravely ill at that point.


Kenny said he expected it the month before when he was working with Ron Wood and Ron Wood was informing him of the situation.

Here it states Kenny Jones knew Charlie was ...'gravely ill'.. and that Charlie was admitted to the hospital just days after Chalies conversation with Jones on the telephone in early June:

By the time Jones and Woody were recording fon The Faces new stuff in July he knew Charlie was gravely ill at that point and it was expected. That was in July .. Charlie passed in late August.

[www.express.co.uk]


Here it states that He and Ronnie Wood both 'KNEW' it was going to happen amd was expected (they easily knew in July he wasn't going to make it):

[www.aceshowbiz.com]


Here in this article he elaborates:

[todayuknews.com]

He said: “I kind of half expected it as a month before he died I had been recording with Ronnie Wood and Rod Stewart to celebrate the 50th anniversary of Faces, which is now two years late. I spent a lot of time with Ronnie so I knew about Charlie and how he was doing. I knew it wasn’t good… so I wasn’t surprised."


In fact my theory and everything points to Charlie had been in the hospital since right around early June (as the article states) and never came home ... and they <all> knew he probably was not going to make it.


Charlie was more than likely hospitalized for over a couple months and never expected to make it  (since early June as articles state).

It <was / is> a conmspiracy that this was all unforeseen as the band originally indicated. They knew all summer he was not going to tour .. much lesss live.

How would Kenny Jones know this in early July?

It was a conspracy as to the how and when.

I think Charlie simply made his official statement for the fans and Mick said Charlie was expected to join the band later this year ... they knew it was not to be.

How would Kenny Jones know this and not Mick Jagger or poor Charlie himself?

Doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to put it together.


Ian

Well, either way, does it really matter in the end, Ian?

It's natural they'd keep this private, what else were they supposed to say or do? And I can understand how they might have known and still hoping against hope. I can understand not wanting to write off the possibility of him getting better, even if it seemed improbable.

You hope and hope until there's no point in hoping any more. It's what you do.

FotiniD wrote on Sep 10^th, 2021 at 9:29am:



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Also .. Yes it 'does' matter. I think The Stones were not up front with their fans and sold a tour for millions and millions of dollars under false pretenses. I think they knew long before hand Charlie wasn't going tomake the tour ..

As well I think they knew Charlie may not be around (God Bless Him) .. yet they hid it in order to sell the tour.


In my opinion that just wasn't cool. Im not so sure this thing was totally unexpected and could not be helped as the bands official statement said.

If ... if that is the case I think thats bulls**t. Not sure I would of opted for going if I knew Charlie was not going to be there.

So yes .. it does matter. This time and in this instance it does. Lots of people spent lots of money based on what was presented to them. That was sneaky / shady and I think the Stones should have considered their fans more than that.

This is my perspective .. u kno.


Ian

FotiniD wrote on Sep 11^th, 2021 at 4:11am:



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I see all your points. The band as we knew them is gone. Anything now moving forward is just sort of a novelty type of thing IMO. The tour may not have been able to be canceled ... due to insurance etc but they knew well before it was announced that he was not going to be able to make it.

I think COVID may have came into play (and it would be very hard to sell a tour with one of the members sitting out due to COVID). There was one report that he had it severly.

Ian

Ian Billen tried this same bullshit at IORR.
Here's the deal Ian, it's none of your goddamn business.
Everyone else can understand this but you.

dudes??

Gazza wrote on Sep 11^th, 2021 at 7:26am:


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Noooooo def wasn't just a person. One cannot go just by the oddballs out there who will post anything. It was an outlet (they said it was reported).

Imagine if RUSH would of did the same thing with Neal Peart. It was shady .. In June he was hospitalized .. just a few days after his birthday. They knew at that point he was not going to make the tour.  That was well before the announcement .. well before it was a go. They simply spoofed us .. and grabbed the cash first .. without regard to how it will look in the long run .. it was wrong. It was under-handed. This is my gripe. They don't 'care' .. but guess what .. they should AT LEAST 'know' some of us are not so stupid
that we don't understand it.

Ian

Gazza wrote on Sep 11^th, 2021 at 1:50pm:


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Of course just because a news outlet reported it doesn't mean anything. It was a mere sentence within saying it was reported he had a severe bout with COVID and then had a medical procedure (surgery). It wasn't in the headline (not that it makes it factual or any difference).

However I know one thing .. they are hiding SOETHING for a reason. It's ludicrous everyone thinks it is simply because dear Charlie (<< and God Bless his heart .. I loved Charlie Watts) was private lol smh.

Answer me this:

Don't you find it odd that Charlie Watts happens to be the only celeberity in the last 40-50 years who has passed away and here we are going on three weeks later and we still have no idea how, no idea what happend .. all while he was suppossed to be part of the biggest selling rock tour of the year in the biggest band in the world?

Why is Charlie Watts the only one ever who was involved with this series of odd events. Why is hee the only celeberity
in which it's all over hells half acre that he passed yet nobody will disclose how .. what happend .. anything??

Gazza .. that didnt happen twenty years ago .. and it sure as heck doesn't happen now. They are hiding something. Since nobody else will speak out I feel as though I have to even more. You will find out I'm right in time. They knew all along
and sold the tour anyway. One final slap in the face to fans ..and a slap in the face to Charlie (especially now that they are adding shows).

I smell a rat. My theory is they knew.. didnt tell us .. sold the tour .. and are now hiding it (until after the tour).

I think it was dirty. This is why I want to know why and how .. and guess what.. to those of us who bought tickets ... (see below)

We DO have a right to know at least SOMETHING. We DO have a right to at least a friggin 'semi-explanation'. If the tour didnt just get advertised with him in and sold under the premise of him being part of it that would be completely different.

It's ludicrous how easily folks are pacified. If it was The Stones off time and they didnt just sell a tour with him supposedly a part of it that would be completely different (odd but different) and acceptable. It wasnt. I feel tricked .. (so should others). They knew well before this tour was advertised he wasnt going to be a part of it (See Kenny Jones comments) and that was pretty wrong to do to the people who were buying tickets.

It's almost like showing someone a picture of the car they are going to buy all while its a different color when they get it shipped to them (and it was NOT by accident).

We DO have a right to a semi-explanation Gazza. I'm not crazy for thinking that.. I think others are who thinking its crazy Im very upset at that. Where is the intergirty to their fans ... in the end .. they sort of tricked us to sell this tour and it was friggin BS to have (use) Charlie a part of that equation. I'm not the one disrespectful to Charlie Watts over this  .. The rest of The Rolling Stones are (jus think about it).

Ian

I don't think the Stones owe anyone any explanation whatsoever. And even if they knew he was terminally ill, there's no reason to disclose that info to the public if they don't want to.

"We miss you Charlie, can't wait until you're well enough to rejoin us." Wouldn't be surprised if they were saying that up to his final days .

And if they want to continue touring they should do what makes them happy. The road is their home after all.

Hell for all we know someone else in the band has a death prognosis. Let them live out their remaining lives how they want. It doesn't affect ours.

Ian Billen wrote on Sep 11^th, 2021 at 2:31pm:



No. Because he wasnt like other 'celebrities'. He was a very private individual. 

The obsession with the private lives of 'celebrities' by some members of the public is absurd. This nonsense is the reason why no-talent fuckwits like the Kardashians are zillionaires.

They owe you no explanation whatsoever beyond telling you that he died.  Have some respect.

Your sense of entitlement and your assumption that you 'know' the ins and outs of what was happening and that you were shafted all over this is nonsensical. Get over yourself.

Gazza wrote on Sep 11^th, 2021 at 7:56pm:



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Wrong again Gazza. So then ...

I guess Kenny Jones is lying. That's what you are saying .. right?

As well .. I didn't say they owed 'Ian Billen' an explanation
they owe the public an explanation because they sold a tour knowingly he wasnt going to be there - yes they did and so then yes they do.

Same would be true if a dealer sold you car based on a picture of that car ... only to get it shipped with a different color. Same make and model .. different color.

I suppose you'd say well .. thats just the way it is .. he owes me no explanation ... right?

This is not much different. They sold The Tour as The Rolling Stones .. many would disagree to that name without Charlie Watts (I am one of them).

So Kenny Jones is lying about all off that? Don't take my word for it .. ask one of his good friends .. he's lying about it all? ok. This isnt my speculation.. this is what the guy said.

Don't address me .. address what Kenny Jones said. In essence according to you he is lying or mistaken right?

It is one or the other.

Additinally you keep saying nobody is saying anything for the sake of Charlie Watts being private .. and his and his families privacy .. guy look all over the Internet it's on the news.. on every social media platform as much as any famous musician (possibly even more than when Prince passed on).

So then ... Why has neither Mick, Keith, or Ronnie mentioned anything on their social media platforms? (they tweet about others who have passed on .. and paid their respects to others right?). By the way .. Chuck Berry was private as hell .. just as much as Charlie Watts any day. Berry wouldn't even hardly ever do an interview or disclose anything. They all paid their respects to him. They can't say they will miss him? Can't say they are heart broken? Can't say they owe him anything or anything at all about the guy (after 60 years). I am sure they are  ,, but they should say so as a matter of respect (as they do everyone else). They are simply quiet in order to blow this off in order to sell the tour and that is cheap. There is no reason for it like this.

Oh wait .. Charlies was private .. that would be an invasion of his and the families privacy to do that right  ? That has nothing to do with it man (you are making excuses for them). The world knows he passed on. They havent even said publically that they are sorry or that they owe him a lot or anything. They are going to simply blow this off .. and try to sweep it under the rug as much as possible .... (as they already have) you watch. Isn't right.  It isnt right in how they sold the tour and they could show a little more respect / admiration for Charlie. They already added another show. Their concern is cash .. all other things are insignificant to them these days.. even a little respect for their drummer of 60 years.

If I need to get over myself you need to get real Lol


Ian

Gazza wrote on Sep 12^th, 2021 at 12:43pm:



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I am saying that because you said it was my own assumptions that Charlie was ill for a while and could not tour ..  (as in I was assumming all that and I was the only one saying it). This is why I said I didn't say all that... Kenny Jones did... which he did. Don't argue with me .. argue with Kenny Jones. I'm just going by what he said .. he was a good friend of charlie and was around all through this last segment to get the full story.  He said he spoke to Charlie on his Birthday and he didn't sound good. Charlie was admitted to the hospital just days later  .. By the time The Faces reunited Charlie was already gravely ill according to him and he 'half expected' Charlie to pass away. In the mean time The Stones announced this tour (didn't say anything to us that Charlie wasn't going to be able to make the tour .. that is really all they had to do). Then when Charlie passed on the bands statement said they didn't see this coming (?). How then did Kenny Jones? I spent my dough thinking Chartlie would be there .. as WAS ADVERTISED. 

It was not only false advertisment it was a lie IMO.

The Stones only posted pictures .. one each. Ok .. Then that is going to be it Gazza. Charlie will be swept under the rug and The Stones will move on (not much reverence for a 60 year career with them). It's all wrong.

I consider this tour and anything moving forward a novelty veriatiation including 'some' Stones .. not 'The Rolling Stones'. An updated version of The Jamming With Edward gang (I truly do).

What do I think would have been honorable?

Announce Charlie would not be able to make the tour IF they MUST tour before it or as the tour was announced (didn't have to disclose anything more than that). Not wait until three weeks later when the majority of tickets are made and everyone has made plans.

Now that it happend this way 'the bait and switch' .. yepp totally was and on the Woooooorst possible subject / situation. The worst thing they could do in that regard.

So now I want to know what happend (<<GENERALLY) because some of the public feels lied to. They certainly dont have to disclose 100% .. I wouldnt ever expect that .. but just a little something about it and what had transpired (well they cant because everyone would simply be like ummmm so ya all knew all along and were lyin to us about it jus to sell the tour).

They will continue on from here not recognizing what happend? or Charlie Watts much. They have already added shows. Their agenda is cash over honorability to CW and their fans.

A picture is not much .. Charlie got less than people who not part of the band Lol It's all been dishonorable.

I will follow The Stones pre 2021 and take interest in that.. do reviews on their work whatever BUT moving forward .. tis the end of The Rolling Stones as we knew them.

The rest of the people / fans/ concert goers etc. may be easily pacified and can allow them to get pissed on while The Stones camp simply tells em its raining ... but I dont have to (and I wont).

Thats where all this stems from. Its why Im now like .. well dammit now I want to know what happend? I think we are owed an explanation. Not anything in deep .. still have to be respectful to CW .. but I think we are owed a 'general'  explanation due to the timeline of events and others saying what The Stones told us and what was .. are very different pictures.

We wont get one .. BUT that doesnt mean I have to lay down on  this all the time and act like I'm stupid while getting raked either (see my point).

At the other board this (and any criticizing of The Stones) is frowned upon and The Stones are protected and coddled there (communistic stuff Lol smh). People may be 'hurt' ... (?) Well then ..really ...they should not be part of a message board. I thought we were all 'adults' that could handle discussing things. Not so. I know one thing .. I wasn't going to simply agree me (and thousands of others) getting deliberatley screwed was perfectly fine as they would like things over there.

*Imagine RUSH selling a tour without Neil Peart (and not letting fans know when they damn well knew he wouldnt be a part of it). Oh and btw Shhhhh ... don't ask wtf happend or say you want a little explanation? None of my biz and besides .... That is disrespectful (  ??). <<That is what has happend IMO.

I am not joking when I say I truly feel what has happend is along the same very lines .. or at least approaching that same level.

Ian -

To be honest I haven't read all the posts cause I'm a little sleepy, but I really don't get this new fad of judging anyone's bereavement status from what they post online, even more so when it is related to people who spent most of their lives without any social media. Not that it should matter either way, the whole concept is ludicrous, your personal feelings of pain or loss do not need validation by being posted for the whole world to see, yes, even if the person you lost was a "celebrity".

Get some help.

Over the last  20 years or so The Rolling Stones is much more a business than a band and the way this all transpired was much more to that fact than even I could have imagined  .. Charlie's health was kept hidden so they could transition to a new drummer. He was never going to make the tour from the outset (the poor fellow .. what a kind soul... I am certain it was not his idea and he had to think about himself and family.. those were and should have been his only major concern.. not 'The Stones' ... Anyway what a guy). All this is an obvious thing based on those who know The Stones and their comments coming out now.

I think it was a poor way to handle it and was dishonest (figuratively and monitarily) to their
followers based on this tour that was sold. If the tour wasn't sold it would be much more acceptable.

All summer they knew Charlie was not going to be touring (shady). 

Anyway I realised The Stones were a band and a business in a 50-50 sense twenty years ago. Then it turned to 60/40 ...

Now here we are and in all honesty .. it is 90-10. The Stones are not a band these days .. they are a touring entitiy (with some nostalgia projects) that banks on their name. Used to be 50-50 considering the dollars. Until this transpired in the manor it has I still thought it 'almost' was at least that percentage .. Lol 

.. They are 90% a business affair now (all Keith and Ronnies talk about this 'band rolling' ...'The band' etc. ...'the road' .... talk from them all the time sounds good but they are just a touring business entity at this point that has the biggest name in the business .. and they rely on that name .. it's their only concern). Their lack of hardly any new material is testimate to that (and it is a shame .. because their material is till so darn good .. (it's just is so minimal over the last 25 years). Now The Stones are simply a live act .. that is a business (it is sad because I thought they still had at least 'SOME' band in their blood).

It is even more sad to the thousands of people who spent millions of dollars toward them based on a product the Stones themselves knew it was not going to be (kinda crappy to do to people that have made them so wealthy in the first place).

Ian

lotsajizz wrote on Sep 15^th, 2021 at 4:04pm:



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Do you actually mean 'vacuity' (?). If so .. how do you figure .. wouldn't that very concept illustrate my point even more?


Either way .. everything directly points to what I'm saying (and that will continue) ... and people don't like it and are calling me a jerk (because they are turning a blind eye).

Believe me .. I'm not the 'jerk' in this situation .. there are some others from the UK that started a band in 1962 that are they ones who have been pretty jerky about all this. This is a classic case of shooting the messenger. I hate to be a 'negative Nancy' .. but imagine Rush pulling this when they knew darn well Neil Peart wouldn't be touring from the git-go. This is not really not a whole hell of a lot different .. even though they are different players... different type of band all together  .. different styles etc.... still isn't much different.



Additionally it is reported none of the other Stones went to Charlies funeral. They can have a huge tour but COVID supposedly kept them from attending the guys funeral? Ummmm?

**In six months most will feel much more as I do right now about how all this transpired / is transpiring and is being strangely handled (so tread carefully).

As for me ... None of this adds up. Sorry. Wouldn't matter ...
but them choosing to tour was pretty questionable considering  .. and not filling us in in order to sell tickets was more than shady .. it was just plain wrong (literally and figuratively .. especially considering what this revolved around).


I am suprised there was not some legal mattters that would of prevented them from doing things the way it was done (?). Could they have actually initially touted the tour as The Rolling Stones w/o Charlie in attendance as they had? Are they allowed to make replacements without letting the fans know BEFORE buying a ticket etc. etc. ? Hmmm?

Look if this happend in their off time and we werent swindled I could go forever not knowing anything because it wouldn't be my (our) business. I simply thought .. well then now we deserve a bit of an explanation based on the timeline of events and that this doesnt add up (a 'general' one .. while being respectful to Charlie). I mean a truthful explanation .. elaborating a bit because what we were told by their PR can't be truthful.

Doesn't suprise me so many sheep here and elsewhere are ok with it and will consider me the bad guy Lol smh.


Ian

[quote author=1E2F3C2F2021272A110F202A3C21272A4E0 link=1622574284/47#47 date=1631761063]OMFGawd!!!

The fuckwad attitudes in these posts are like those posts by the savages on IORR!
The inflated egomaniacal assertive mindset that says someone is entitled to an explanation as to why Charlie died???
Why they are touring still??


I ask you, BY WHOM? Who owes you??
The band's machine? The Watt's family?? The only thing I feel this bands owes me is  the possibility that they WONT play SMU or MY ever again.

You want straight answers???. Go to IORR...those maniacs have the answers to every fucking world problem except tolerance...see how far this discussion would have gotten over there...

The reason I first came here to express sadness over Charlie Watts passing is for the reason I have always considered this my home board. Here The Rolling Stones are not 'protected' and it is not frowned upon when people criticize them. I don't have anything against the people who run IORR on a personal level. Bv seems like a nice fellow. I simply disagree with acting as if The Rolling Stones are helpless old folks who cannot stand up or answer for themselves.

>>The Rolling Stones have been multi-millionaires for decades. They WANT to be in the public eye .. they have for decades. when a celeberity passes away (wait... when ANYONE suddenly passes away .. that is the obvious question). The Stones should not be immune to that like some people here feel and some at IORR feel. This goes with the territory. Nobody is disrespecting them .. if anything they have disrespected their fans by not being upfront. I think people are naive who have not figured out that The Stones handled this poorly / dishonestly. This isn't a $10.00 download or CD we are talking about. People have spent hundreds (some thousands) of dollars. 

They would never allow this content to continue for so long or even delete the posts entirely...and ban the members...

See above. Nobody is badmouthing Charlie Watts .. if one cannot ask how a person passed away ... especially when he was supposed to be on tour .. then what good is it? Nobody needs to know exactly 'why' .. BUT a little elaboration would be nice (<<< solely based on the fact that they introduced a tour with him a part of and sold about 100,000,000 worth of tickets based on that just two and a half weeks before).




If things dont get whackier...see you all in Charlotte.

Said with Peace & Love...

We have the right to feel anyway we want. What gives you the right to say we (some of us) cant? Practice what you preach, Sir or Madam.  It can (should) go both ways.

The Rolling Stones are a huge business .. I dont protect them and act like they are my neighbors struggling band that everyone picks at. They know what they are doing and about now while I am sure they are sad about Charlie .. the reality is about now they are at rehearsals being treated like royalty laughing and jamming ready to rake in about 100 million dollars. Sort of strange the perception people have and how sorry they feel for them?

If I had been following / seeing my neighbors band for forty years and they introduced a huge tour which I purchased tickets for .. and one of their members suddenly passed.... I'd politely ask what happend (anyone would). The only reason people are acting this is different is because it is Charlie Watts and The Rolling Stones. People spent ALOT of money .. yes they should get a 'general' explanation Lol.
The Rolling Stones should be held to much more accountable IMO  .. thousands of folks were possibly lied to in order to cash in / things were misrepresented. Could RUSH or KISS get away with this? It would be tough.

Sorry .. I don't coddle The Rolling Stones (never have ... never will) and if I feel swindled based on what came out just after I have the right to say so or ask questions (so do others if they want to).

*If they would of introduced the tour without Charlie this woulld all be much different (in simply citing he would not make it due to a medical issue). IMO it is becoming more and more apparent poor Charlie was never going to be there and all the insiders selling the tour and The Stones themselves knew it (and how they kept that from us in order to sell tickets.. then acting like none of the promoters / band / tour management etc saw any of this coming or darn well knew this was the case all along was pretty wrong).

If you are ok with them lying to people or misrepresenting themselves or a product in order to cash-in that is up to you .. but don't tell me (or others) I / we should be ok with it and not at least speak up.

*Hate to be cold and harsh and calculative due to the difficult circumstance involving the death of a beloved band member .. but I am just following The Stones lead and the mode they set for this .. (<< this all could have been avoided and SHOULD have been much different).

Ian