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Re: Is Taylor up there with Page, Clapton, Allman?
Reply #25 - Apr 8^th, 2012 at 8:14am

Nellcote wrote on Apr 8^th, 2012 at 8:08am:

StickyStones wrote on Apr 7^th, 2012 at 10:23pm:

Pdog wrote on Apr 7^th, 2012 at 7:31pm:

Paranoid Android wrote on Apr 7^th, 2012 at 5:14pm:

Well...the initial question was in terms of TALANT...not song writing...so my opinion stands...Clapton has always bored me to tears...Page is bloated, however the LedZep sound is awesome with Jones...and honestly, I don't know much about Allman...

When I hear Goat's Head Soup...I feel all warm and fuzzy from Taylor's guitar...and his playing on EoM is supurb.

I honestly feel alot of his music is uncredited...the Jagger/Richards machine rolled thru town and left very little to anyone else...the same goes
for the Lennon/McCartney machine...though that one is more believable to me...

underated and talent are two sperate questions or even topics... I gave my opinion on the talent from my POV.... I think the dif. for me is... The Stones made Taylor better, not he made The Stones better... Page had his own sound and style, that is Zep, Clapton in all his bands and solo stuff has his own sound signature and writes songs galore, and a few were huge hits... Allman as well, not sure what he wrote, but I love his playing... all these guys were driving forces for their bands and themselves... Taylor can't say that! This is why i'm always baffled when people think Taylor somehow got cheated. He felt entitled, which is horrible. Who hasn't worked with a guy, especially a new guy, who thinks he should get paid more and work less... Gotta pay your dues... and as I always say, I love his playing in The Stones... He contributed hugely... I know in my gut, they would've been just as great without him... Beggars Banquet is profff of that, barely any Brian or Taylor, and Let It bleed as well... Taylor really only was there fully for three albums, and the two post Exile are wonderful... but no one looks on them like the big four... enter Wood!!!

Enter Wood: Some Girls, which is mostly Mick and Keith. Emotional Rescue: Mostly Mick. Tattoo You: Outtakes going back a decade, the best songs by Keith with one of the biggest singles having MT on lead. Undercover and Dirty Work have been pretty much forgotten. Steel Wheels, ok comeback album...The rest, meh.

Work less? His playing is all over every Stones record he's on, he dominated the shows live. Taylor was there fully for Sticky Fingers, Exile, Goat's Head Soup, and It's Only Rock N' Roll. All the standout tracks from that era either feature him on lead guitar, or feature heavy contributions from him or were penned by him (Honky Tonk Woman, Can't You Hear Me Knockin, Sway, Moonlight Mile, Winter, 100 Years Ago, Dancing with Mr. D, Doo Doo Doo, Hide Your Love, If You Can't Rock Me, Till the Next Goodbye, Time Waits for No One, etc)

The fact is, The Stones made Taylor better AND he made the Stones better.

The topic here is taken a diversion.
Taylor never will reside in the same continent as the three guitarists noted.
Never is a mighty long time.

on par with infinity, no?

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Nellcote

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Re: Is Taylor up there with Page, Clapton, Allman?
Reply #26 - Apr 8^th, 2012 at 9:11am

Pdog wrote on Apr 8^th, 2012 at 8:14am:

Nellcote wrote on Apr 8^th, 2012 at 8:08am:

StickyStones wrote on Apr 7^th, 2012 at 10:23pm:

Pdog wrote on Apr 7^th, 2012 at 7:31pm:

Paranoid Android wrote on Apr 7^th, 2012 at 5:14pm:

Well...the initial question was in terms of TALANT...not song writing...so my opinion stands...Clapton has always bored me to tears...Page is bloated, however the LedZep sound is awesome with Jones...and honestly, I don't know much about Allman...

When I hear Goat's Head Soup...I feel all warm and fuzzy from Taylor's guitar...and his playing on EoM is supurb.

I honestly feel alot of his music is uncredited...the Jagger/Richards machine rolled thru town and left very little to anyone else...the same goes
for the Lennon/McCartney machine...though that one is more believable to me...

underated and talent are two sperate questions or even topics... I gave my opinion on the talent from my POV.... I think the dif. for me is... The Stones made Taylor better, not he made The Stones better... Page had his own sound and style, that is Zep, Clapton in all his bands and solo stuff has his own sound signature and writes songs galore, and a few were huge hits... Allman as well, not sure what he wrote, but I love his playing... all these guys were driving forces for their bands and themselves... Taylor can't say that! This is why i'm always baffled when people think Taylor somehow got cheated. He felt entitled, which is horrible. Who hasn't worked with a guy, especially a new guy, who thinks he should get paid more and work less... Gotta pay your dues... and as I always say, I love his playing in The Stones... He contributed hugely... I know in my gut, they would've been just as great without him... Beggars Banquet is profff of that, barely any Brian or Taylor, and Let It bleed as well... Taylor really only was there fully for three albums, and the two post Exile are wonderful... but no one looks on them like the big four... enter Wood!!!

Enter Wood: Some Girls, which is mostly Mick and Keith. Emotional Rescue: Mostly Mick. Tattoo You: Outtakes going back a decade, the best songs by Keith with one of the biggest singles having MT on lead. Undercover and Dirty Work have been pretty much forgotten. Steel Wheels, ok comeback album...The rest, meh.

Work less? His playing is all over every Stones record he's on, he dominated the shows live. Taylor was there fully for Sticky Fingers, Exile, Goat's Head Soup, and It's Only Rock N' Roll. All the standout tracks from that era either feature him on lead guitar, or feature heavy contributions from him or were penned by him (Honky Tonk Woman, Can't You Hear Me Knockin, Sway, Moonlight Mile, Winter, 100 Years Ago, Dancing with Mr. D, Doo Doo Doo, Hide Your Love, If You Can't Rock Me, Till the Next Goodbye, Time Waits for No One, etc)

The fact is, The Stones made Taylor better AND he made the Stones better.

The topic here is taken a diversion.
Taylor never will reside in the same continent as the three guitarists noted.
Never is a mighty long time.

on par with infinity, no?

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andrews27 Rocks Off Regular Offline Wake up Bowie or we all through!! Posts: 1,644 Pittsburgh, PA, USA Gender:	Re: Is Taylor up there with Page, Clapton, Allman? Reply #27 - Apr 8^th, 2012 at 10:35am The simple answer is: Yes, Taylor's up there. More complicatedly: Great material and great mates make great performances. Jimmy Page with The Firm, anybody?
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Pdog Rocks Off Regular Offline Posts: 6,130 aTx Gender:	Re: Is Taylor up there with Page, Clapton, Allman? Reply #28 - Apr 8^th, 2012 at 10:39am andrews27 wrote on Apr 8^th, 2012 at 10:35am: The simple answer is: Yes, Taylor's up there. More complicatedly: Great material and great mates make great performances. Jimmy Page with The Firm, anybody? saw them live... first album and the show I saw were both good!
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Nellcote

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So, what's your point?

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Re: Is Taylor up there with Page, Clapton, Allman?
Reply #29 - Apr 8^th, 2012 at 10:47am

andrews27 wrote on Apr 8^th, 2012 at 10:35am:

The simple answer is: Yes, Taylor's up there.

More complicatedly: Great material and great mates make great performances. Jimmy Page with The Firm, anybody?

Last I checked, Radioactive by The Firm charted only # 1 in the US
What song did Taylor appear on which charted equally after he left The Stones?

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StickyStones

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Re: Is Taylor up there with Page, Clapton, Allman?
Reply #30 - Apr 8^th, 2012 at 12:28pm

Nellcote wrote on Apr 8^th, 2012 at 10:47am:

andrews27 wrote on Apr 8^th, 2012 at 10:35am:

The simple answer is: Yes, Taylor's up there.

More complicatedly: Great material and great mates make great performances. Jimmy Page with The Firm, anybody?

Last I checked, Radioactive by The Firm charted only # 1 in the US
What song did Taylor appear on which charted equally after he left The Stones?

Kind of an unfair comparison since The Firm was a supergroup.

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Nellcote

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So, what's your point?

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Re: Is Taylor up there with Page, Clapton, Allman?
Reply #31 - Apr 8^th, 2012 at 12:32pm

StickyStones wrote on Apr 8^th, 2012 at 12:28pm:

Nellcote wrote on Apr 8^th, 2012 at 10:47am:

andrews27 wrote on Apr 8^th, 2012 at 10:35am:

The simple answer is: Yes, Taylor's up there.

More complicatedly: Great material and great mates make great performances. Jimmy Page with The Firm, anybody?

Last I checked, Radioactive by The Firm charted only # 1 in the US
What song did Taylor appear on which charted equally after he left The Stones?

Kind of an unfair comparison since The Firm was a supergroup.

Unfair to Taylor to compare him to these three guitarists as he's not close to their equal.

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Re: Is Taylor up there with Page, Clapton, Allman?
Reply #32 - Apr 8^th, 2012 at 12:56pm

StickyStones wrote on Apr 8^th, 2012 at 12:28pm:

Nellcote wrote on Apr 8^th, 2012 at 10:47am:

andrews27 wrote on Apr 8^th, 2012 at 10:35am:

The simple answer is: Yes, Taylor's up there.

More complicatedly: Great material and great mates make great performances. Jimmy Page with The Firm, anybody?

Last I checked, Radioactive by The Firm charted only # 1 in the US
What song did Taylor appear on which charted equally after he left The Stones?

Kind of an unfair comparison since The Firm was a supergroup.

so are The Stones...! Bill, Mick,Keith and Charlie are some of the best players in thier crafts! and Taylor was enhanced and enhanced their playing, never to come close again by himself... even Mick and Keef never shined solo like they do together... Taylor cut off his nose to spite his face... you never grow a new nose!

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Philip

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Re: Is Taylor up there with Page, Clapton, Allman?
Reply #33 - Apr 8^th, 2012 at 5:23pm

Clapton, Page and Taylor are quite similar in that they only truly shined in the context of bands full of egomaniacs who challenged them musically.

Left to their own devices they all tend to create rather bland music. Page seems to have stopped playing altogther now. Don't suck my cock

PS: Taylor didn't make the stones better, just different. Nanker

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Kilroy Rocks Off Regular Offline I love this place! Posts: 2,863 Mickville Virginny USA Gender:	Re: Is Taylor up there with Page, Clapton, Allman? Reply #34 - Apr 8^th, 2012 at 5:50pm PS: Taylor didn't make the stones better, just different. Yes This is correct, but the difference was great and a little better at the time, now was'nt it? The Guitar riffs on ending solo on the Sticky Finger disc "Can't You Hear me Knocking" is great don't you agree?
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Re: Is Taylor up there with Page, Clapton, Allman?
Reply #35 - Apr 8^th, 2012 at 7:23pm

Kilroy wrote on Apr 8^th, 2012 at 5:50pm:

PS: Taylor didn't make the stones better, just different. Wow!

Yes This is correct, but the difference was great and a little better at the time, now was'nt it? taylor made smile

The Guitar riffs on ending solo on the Sticky Finger disc "Can't You Hear me Knocking" is great don't you agree?

I don't think anyone will argue the greatness... but I will argue if it's greater than Sympathy leads by Keith or just a tune like Gimmie Shelter! Is it greater than the weaving on Some Girls...
The wiki on CYHMK is interesting as well... Keith wrote the riff, and it's brilliant... Taylor's leads aside, I love the way the song jams out, but you don't write a song starting with a lead, it's a riff... and that is genius on that tune... if Taylor thinks his jam is equal to writing, which I've never heard him, just really bitter fans... regardless it ain't the lead...
here's a great example of a great Stones song, with multiple collaborators, but only two song writing credits!
If you read the wiki entry on YCAGWYW, you can see how many people added ideas and parts to the music, but who wrote it? Jagger, and like all songs it's crdited Jagger/Richards!

"You Can't Always Get What You Want" was recorded on 16 and 17 November 1968 at London's Olympic Sound Studios. It features the London Bach Choir opening the song, highlighting throughout, and bringing it to its conclusion. Jimmy Miller, the Rolling Stones' producer at the time, plays drums on this song instead of Charlie Watts. Al Kooper plays piano and organ and also played the French horn intro, while Rocky Dijon plays congas and maracas. Nanette Workman sings backup vocals, but she is credited as "Nanette Newman".[citation needed]
Of the song, Jagger said in 2003,[citation needed] "'You Can't Always Get What You Want' was something I just played on the acoustic guitar—one of those bedroom songs. It proved to be quite difficult to record because Charlie couldn't play the groove and so Jimmy Miller had to play the drums. I'd also had this idea of having a choir, probably a gospel choir, on the track, but there wasn't one around at that point. Jack Nitzsche, or somebody, said that we could get the London Bach Choir and we said, 'That will be a laugh.'"[1]
In his review of the song, Richie Unterberger says, "If you buy John Lennon's observation that the Rolling Stones were apt to copy the Beatles' innovations within a few months or so, 'You Can't Always Get What You Want' is the Rolling Stones' counterpart to 'Hey Jude'". Jagger said in 1969, "I liked the way the Beatles did that with 'Hey Jude'. The orchestra was not just to cover everything up—it was something extra. We may do something like that on the next album."[2]
Personnel

Mick Jagger – lead vocals
Keith Richards – acoustic, electric guitar, backing vocals
Bill Wyman – bass
London Bach Choir – choral arrangements by Jack Nitzsche
Al Kooper – piano, organ, French horn[7]
Jimmy Miller – drums
Rocky Dijon – congas, maracas
Madeline Bell – backing vocals
Nanette Workman – backing vocals (credited as Nanette Newman on the LP)
Doris Troy – backing vocals

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Kilroy

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Re: Is Taylor up there with Page, Clapton, Allman?
Reply #36 - Apr 8^th, 2012 at 7:42pm

How about this Pdog....sometimes a Peanut Butter Sandwich is better with Jelly....The Jam at the end is really superb. My point being the Lead guitar solo, no did not write the song, only contribute greatly, but IMO made it made it alot better. So in this case the Jam solo at the end, whom ever wrote the song, it made it better. Yes I am always weary of WIKI but I rely on that till proven wrong , which by the way is a lot. That's why I love this place. I can learn more here when we talk Music, Recording and Stones Stuff than anywhere, and I am a Student of the Stones and their music.
My point being that line up was and is my favorite because of those two albums. Oh shoot that's a different topic!
No, I do not think Taylor is up there with Page, nor Slow hand, or Allman! sorry 2 discussions going on at one time. Plus I'm looking for a photo of Merle with Jagger, and I've been up since 4!

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Re: Is Taylor up there with Page, Clapton, Allman?
Reply #37 - Apr 11^th, 2012 at 8:22am

Kilroy wrote on Apr 8^th, 2012 at 5:50pm:

PS: Taylor didn't make the stones better, just different. Wow!

Yes This is correct, but the difference was great and a little better at the time, now was'nt it? taylor made smile

Some of it was great for awhile, but it wasn't necessarily better than what came before, just different.

Can't You Hear Me Knocking? isn't better than Gimme Shelter which isn't better than Ruby Tuesday which isn't better than The Last Time etc etc.

Imo there's a continual stream of great shit from 1963 up to and including the recording of Exile then things start going a bit wonky and lacking in inspiration. There are of course some flashes of brilliance after that time.

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Re: Is Taylor up there with Page, Clapton, Allman?
Reply #38 - Apr 11^th, 2012 at 8:30am

Taylor is a genius. The thing he did with "Time waits for no one" is enough proof.

Clapton is a genius too.

Those Allman bros have a bunch of great things.

I cannot stand Led Zep. They remind me of U2, Radiohead --- those humorless bands.

So glad to be here to put the record straight. Of course, my opinion only matters.

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Philip Rocks Off Regular Offline In Another Land Posts: 170 Gender:	Re: Is Taylor up there with Page, Clapton, Allman? Reply #39 - Apr 11^th, 2012 at 9:13am MrPleasant wrote on Apr 11^th, 2012 at 8:30am: Taylor is a genius. The thing he did with "Time waits for no one" is enough proof. Genius? No. TWFNO is A-typical 70's MOR ballad rock.
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MrPleasant Rocks Off Regular Offline Posts: 2,677 Xalapa, Veracruz, México Gender:	Re: Is Taylor up there with Page, Clapton, Allman? Reply #40 - Apr 11^th, 2012 at 9:18am "Typical"? Then I wish I had experienced the seventies, in full.
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Brainbell Jangler Rocks Off Regular Offline Rocks Off Rules You Bastards Posts: 1,331 Portland, OR Gender:	Re: Is Taylor up there with Page, Clapton, Allman? Reply #41 - Apr 12^th, 2012 at 12:57am No.
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Re: Is Taylor up there with Page, Clapton, Allman?
Reply #42 - Apr 12^th, 2012 at 5:41pm

Clapton stands apart because he can sing and play guitar at the same time, and his voice is as sweet as his guitar. That's very hard to do and he makes it look easy. I would rate them for guitar playing only: 1. Page, 2. Clapton, 3. Taylor 4. Allman. Mick T had his moments of greatness with the Stones, but his solo career since he left has been a big flop. If he was so good he would of stayed popular, most people dont even know who he is anymore.

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gimmekeef Rocks Off Regular Offline Posts: 5,759 Ontario Canada Gender:	Re: Is Taylor up there with Page, Clapton, Allman? Reply #43 - Apr 13^th, 2012 at 12:49pm tough to really assess Alman as he was gone so soon....his work with Clapton on Layla sessions stands near the top of the mountain. Maybe of all of these guys Jeff Beck is still at the top of his game...
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