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The Mel Belli guitar video series is back! (Read 11,668 times)
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Re: The Mel Belli guitar video series is back!
Reply #125 - Apr 6th, 2010 at 9:20pm
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Good stuff.  Always like messing around with different sounds; MT seemed to prefer a cleaner tone, and you could always tell it was him.  Check out CHYMK and tell me he wasn't a huge influence on Slash's tone!  Personally, I prefer his slightly cleaner tone on songs like "Shine a Light" and "Hide Your Love." 

Saw the IORR video - anybody know what guitar Mick is playing (at :47 you can get a decent look at it) - looks different than anything I've seen him ever play.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhHODhTIvgo
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Re: The Mel Belli guitar video series is back!
Reply #126 - Apr 7th, 2010 at 9:35am
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Throwaway wrote on Apr 6th, 2010 at 9:20pm:
Good stuff.  Always like messing around with different sounds; MT seemed to prefer a cleaner tone, and you could always tell it was him.  Check out CHYMK and tell me he wasn't a huge influence on Slash's tone!  Personally, I prefer his slightly cleaner tone on songs like "Shine a Light" and "Hide Your Love."  

Saw the IORR video - anybody know what guitar Mick is playing (at :47 you can get a decent look at it) - looks different than anything I've seen him ever play.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhHODhTIvgo



Looks like a Fender Mustang to me. It's probably just a prop. I've never seen Taylor play a Mustang before . . .
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Re: The Mel Belli guitar video series is back!
Reply #127 - Apr 7th, 2010 at 10:58am
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yes that is a crummy lil mustang
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Re: The Mel Belli guitar video series is back!
Reply #128 - Apr 7th, 2010 at 11:18am
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dadrob wrote on Apr 7th, 2010 at 10:58am:
yes that is a crummy lil mustang



He probably didn't have to worry about soap bubbles getting into the works though . . .

Isn't that what Cobain played? And Cobain made the top 10 of Rolling Stone magazines most influential guitarists, right?
Sadly, Mick Taylor wasn't mentioned in their top 100. What's up with that . . .
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Re: The Mel Belli guitar video series is back!
Reply #129 - Apr 7th, 2010 at 11:59am
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This somewhat respected site has MT as #61 - good to see him get some props http://digitaldreamdoor.nutsie.com/pages/best_newguitar.html

Most people today don't know who MT is - classic rock stations only play a few Stones songs, and even those don't showcase MT's skills (only recently have I heard CYHMK on the FM radio).  It's nice to see some Stones enthusiasts talk about Taylor; I can remember a Slash interview talking about his vibrato.
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Re: The Mel Belli guitar video series is back!
Reply #130 - Apr 7th, 2010 at 12:46pm
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Throwaway wrote on Apr 7th, 2010 at 11:59am:
This somewhat respected site has MT as #61 - good to see him get some props http://digitaldreamdoor.nutsie.com/pages/best_newguitar.html

Most people today don't know who MT is - classic rock stations only play a few Stones songs, and even those don't showcase MT's skills (only recently have I heard CYHMK on the FM radio).  It's nice to see some Stones enthusiasts talk about Taylor; I can remember a Slash interview talking about his vibrato.



This list looks a lot more reasonable than the Rolling Stone Magazine list.

I don't agree with the Clapton rating being so high in the list, with originality, influence, creativity, and skill (technique, versatility) being the criteria. Clapton is probably the best at what he does, but it never fails to put me to sleep (as far as the melodies he plays). Zero originality played with superb excellence. Love his Beatles work though . . .

Hendrix deserves #1 for sure.
Beck deserves to be #2 IMO, and I don't even like his music very much. He IS a very rare talent.
As far as the rest of the list goes I would just say that I think Taylor deserves a top 10 spot.
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Re: The Mel Belli guitar video series is back!
Reply #131 - Apr 7th, 2010 at 1:32pm
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Definitely true, but sadly the mainstream will never get a true glimpse on the work of MT - the biggest Stones "hit" featuring his true talents is probably "Dead Flowers" or perhaps "Heartbreaker." With only one live album during his tenure, Ya Ya's is far too short to showcase his playing, outside of "Stray Cat" perhaps.  Then, as a soloist, his stuff never really caught on, and he only played temporarily with other big names (Dylan, Alvin Lee, etc).  Just another reason to release the vaults.  On that list, when he was in the zone, I feel that no guitarist could touch him...but we ARE on a Stones board  Wink
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Re: The Mel Belli guitar video series is back!
Reply #132 - Apr 7th, 2010 at 1:32pm
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Mel Belli wrote on Apr 6th, 2010 at 11:27am:
Selfishly, I refuse to let this die!

Here's a cool E Dorian lick that MT used on "Slow Blues":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8CK8wgExRI


Great to hear & see!  And thanks for the music lesson!
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Re: The Mel Belli guitar video series is back!
Reply #133 - Apr 7th, 2010 at 1:48pm
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Yeah, thanks for the lesson Mel - it's got my ear noticing a similar scale in some of Taylor's playing, notably Ya Ya's Sympathy (towards the end, before his triplet flourishes), and Street Fighting Man (probably just a blend of major/minor pentatonic).  Either way, they make his playing really unique.  Nothing like a little Brussels Affair on a unseasonably hot Maryland afternoon..
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Re: The Mel Belli guitar video series is back!
Reply #134 - Apr 7th, 2010 at 2:47pm
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To be honest, I'm not even sure MT thought in terms of theory like that. I think he went for target notes based on the composition of each chord—which, let's face it, is a pretty easy thing to do with Stones music—and then trusted his ears the rest of the way.

But, like I said, every once in a while, he'd throw in something cool like the "Slow Blues" lick; he repeated it enough times on the track to suggest he knew it was a "value-add" kind of phrase. And he clearly knew his way around basic major scales.

I'm certainly not much of a theory buff, myself. But there's a popular series of instructional books by Jody Fisher that help me a ton, especially with the modes. There's a section in Fisher's "Beginning Jazz Guitar" that clicked for me; it was like a skeleton key. Rather than learning new shapes or fingerings for each mode, it teaches you to locate the modes "derivatively"—because they're major scales, only with fancy Greek names.

If I want to find Dorian, I mentally move a whole step down from whatever chord I'm playing. Dorian is mostly used with minor-7 chords, so let's say you're playing a Dm7. Move (not literally, but mentally) two frets toward the neck, and there's C.

Bingo: Play the C-major scale from D to D (D-E-F-G-A-B-C-D) and you're playing in the Dorian mode! Not only in Dorian, but *D* Dorian. That was one of the things that confused me initially about modes. I understood that you constructed them out of major scales—but what to do with them? I was ignoring the fact that there was A Dorian, B Dorian, C Dorian, etc., and you play them with those corresponding chords.

Similarly, if you move four frets, or two steps, from D, you locate Bb. Hence, play the Bb major scale over the Dm7, and you're in D Phrygian.

I've got guitar-centric little mnemonic devices for each mode. A common one is Mixolydian, played most frequently over dominant seventh chords like E7 or A7, etc. How to find Mixolydian? Think of the 4 of whatever chord you're playing. Let's say E7. What's the 4 of E? Answer: A.

Voila: Play the A major scale from E to E, and you're in E Mixolydian!

To forestall confusion, you might know that Mixolydian is built out of the fifth note of the major scale. My little trick reverses things. Technically, when talking about modes, we should say that E is the five of A. But, at least for me, it's easier to think of the chord I'm playing as the root, and then move from there.

Aeolian is really easy. Just think in terms of relative major/minor. Go back to our Dm7 chord above. What major is Dm relative to? F. So if you play the F major scale over Dm7, you're in D Aeolian.

Okay. Enough pontificating from me!

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« Last Edit: Apr 7th, 2010 at 2:49pm by Mel Belli »  

fka Sandrew (a proud Rocks Off member since November 2001)&&&&"The Rolling Stones don't want any money ... so I'll keep it." - Melvin Belli, "Gimme Shelter"&&&&"We act so greedy, makes me sick sick sick."&&&&...
 
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Re: The Mel Belli guitar video series is back!
Reply #135 - Apr 10th, 2010 at 9:25am
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fuman wrote on Apr 7th, 2010 at 12:46pm:
I don't agree with the Clapton rating being so high in the list, with originality, influence, creativity, and skill (technique, versatility) being the criteria. Clapton is probably the best at what he does, but it never fails to put me to sleep (as far as the melodies he plays). Zero originality played with superb excellence. Love his Beatles work though . . .


You know, it might be blasphemy, but I feel the same way about Stevie Ray Vaughn: He did Albert King and Hendrix superbly well...
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fka Sandrew (a proud Rocks Off member since November 2001)&&&&"The Rolling Stones don't want any money ... so I'll keep it." - Melvin Belli, "Gimme Shelter"&&&&"We act so greedy, makes me sick sick sick."&&&&...
 
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Re: The Mel Belli guitar video series is back!
Reply #136 - Apr 10th, 2010 at 9:52am
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Mel Belli wrote on Apr 7th, 2010 at 2:47pm:
To be honest, I'm not even sure MT thought in terms of theory like that. I think he went for target notes based on the composition of each chord—which, let's face it, is a pretty easy thing to do with Stones music—and then trusted his ears the rest of the way.

But, like I said, every once in a while, he'd throw in something cool like the "Slow Blues" lick; he repeated it enough times on the track to suggest he knew it was a "value-add" kind of phrase. And he clearly knew his way around basic major scales.

I'm certainly not much of a theory buff, myself. But there's a popular series of instructional books by Jody Fisher that help me a ton, especially with the modes. There's a section in Fisher's "Beginning Jazz Guitar" that clicked for me; it was like a skeleton key. Rather than learning new shapes or fingerings for each mode, it teaches you to locate the modes "derivatively"—because they're major scales, only with fancy Greek names.

If I want to find Dorian, I mentally move a whole step down from whatever chord I'm playing. Dorian is mostly used with minor-7 chords, so let's say you're playing a Dm7. Move (not literally, but mentally) two frets toward the neck, and there's C.

Bingo: Play the C-major scale from D to D (D-E-F-G-A-B-C-D) and you're playing in the Dorian mode! Not only in Dorian, but *D* Dorian. That was one of the things that confused me initially about modes. I understood that you constructed them out of major scales—but what to do with them? I was ignoring the fact that there was A Dorian, B Dorian, C Dorian, etc., and you play them with those corresponding chords.

Similarly, if you move four frets, or two steps, from D, you locate Bb. Hence, play the Bb major scale over the Dm7, and you're in D Phrygian.

I've got guitar-centric little mnemonic devices for each mode. A common one is Mixolydian, played most frequently over dominant seventh chords like E7 or A7, etc. How to find Mixolydian? Think of the 4 of whatever chord you're playing. Let's say E7. What's the 4 of E? Answer: A.

Voila: Play the A major scale from E to E, and you're in E Mixolydian!

To forestall confusion, you might know that Mixolydian is built out of the fifth note of the major scale. My little trick reverses things. Technically, when talking about modes, we should say that E is the five of A. But, at least for me, it's easier to think of the chord I'm playing as the root, and then move from there.

Aeolian is really easy. Just think in terms of relative major/minor. Go back to our Dm7 chord above. What major is Dm relative to? F. So if you play the F major scale over Dm7, you're in D Aeolian.

Okay. Enough pontificating from me!




Thanks for putting this stuff in more laymen's terms - I been reading up on some theory/scales lately, but I always find it easier to play a scale relative to some other root, note, scale, etc.  As you say, 'derivatively.'  This stuff not only helps with lead playing, but also writing - maybe a song in the key of F major should have a bridge in D Aeolian.
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Re: The Mel Belli guitar video series is back!
Reply #137 - Apr 11th, 2010 at 7:16pm
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thank you mel, fuman and everyone
those dozen or so clips feel like 2 months' woodshedding for me, sometimes need to shut up stp writing songs and learn a little more about this instrument i've dedicated my life to

got a question about good time women, mt plays a tiny lick at 1:15, can't tell if that's w/slide, pick harmonics or what?
i'm a tele guy, so it could be just gibson overtones i'm missing
thanks again y'all
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Re: The Mel Belli guitar video series is back!
Reply #138 - Apr 11th, 2010 at 8:13pm
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Welcome, Jeff, to the guitarheads' corner of the board!

I checked out "Good Time Women" ... I don't hear anything at 1:15. There's a cool lick at around 1:45, the last bit of MT's lead. Could that be it? Far as I can tell, no slide—just a trill that he gets from laying into the note with his wrist.
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« Last Edit: Apr 11th, 2010 at 8:15pm by Mel Belli »  

fka Sandrew (a proud Rocks Off member since November 2001)&&&&"The Rolling Stones don't want any money ... so I'll keep it." - Melvin Belli, "Gimme Shelter"&&&&"We act so greedy, makes me sick sick sick."&&&&...
 
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Re: The Mel Belli guitar video series is back!
Reply #139 - Apr 11th, 2010 at 9:28pm
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I hear what you both are saying.  It's the end of the (very short) guitar solo - metal guitarists would go on to use the trick lots in the 80s, playing a single note but shaking the wrist violently, as Mel says.  I could see how it does sound a bit like a slide, when slide players vibrato a single note.
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Re: The Mel Belli guitar video series is back!
Reply #140 - Apr 12th, 2010 at 1:49pm
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the little lick i hear is actually about 1:17, right after mick sings something like, "you know you're gonna die with your wife"
maybe a different version of GTW? i know there are 30 or 40 tape reels of that track
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Re: The Mel Belli guitar video series is back!
Reply #141 - Apr 12th, 2010 at 3:38pm
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I hear it now, yeah. ... Doesn't sound anything out of the ordinary, however, at least to my ears.
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fka Sandrew (a proud Rocks Off member since November 2001)&&&&"The Rolling Stones don't want any money ... so I'll keep it." - Melvin Belli, "Gimme Shelter"&&&&"We act so greedy, makes me sick sick sick."&&&&...
 
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Re: The Mel Belli guitar video series is back!
Reply #142 - Apr 15th, 2010 at 11:23am
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An "outsider" assays the "Sweetheart Like You" solo. Forgot about that one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUTxjUai7MM&feature=related

C'mon, Fuman. You can do it better! Smiley
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fka Sandrew (a proud Rocks Off member since November 2001)&&&&"The Rolling Stones don't want any money ... so I'll keep it." - Melvin Belli, "Gimme Shelter"&&&&"We act so greedy, makes me sick sick sick."&&&&...
 
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Re: The Mel Belli guitar video series is back!
Reply #143 - Apr 15th, 2010 at 11:42am
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I've only heard a few MT/Dylan boots - anyone know of any clear recordings of the tour?  Had "Stones Throw" popped in the car CD today, and I'm in the mood  Wow!
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Re: The Mel Belli guitar video series is back!
Reply #144 - Apr 15th, 2010 at 12:32pm
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Mel Belli wrote on Apr 15th, 2010 at 11:23am:
An "outsider" assays the "Sweetheart Like You" solo. Forgot about that one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUTxjUai7MM&feature=related

C'mon, Fuman. You can do it better! Smiley



Oooh, interesting. I would pick something else if I were to attempt MT/Dylan era songs.
This guy gets the notes, but I think MT is on different strings for some of it. Maybe not . . .

My favorite solo from the '84 tour is It's All Over Now, Baby Blue.
That and Every Grain Of Sand. Paris is a fantastic recording and has both of these songs !!
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Re: The Mel Belli guitar video series is back!
Reply #145 - Apr 15th, 2010 at 12:36pm
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Throwaway wrote on Apr 15th, 2010 at 11:42am:
I've only heard a few MT/Dylan boots - anyone know of any clear recordings of the tour?  Had "Stones Throw" popped in the car CD today, and I'm in the mood  Wow!


Hamburg is a really good performance and great audience quality recording.
Barcelona is another, and Paris too.

Oh, and Gothenburg and Copenhagen as well.
There is a complete monitor recording of the 19th of June Rome show.
Two other Rome (20th and 21st?) audiences exist, both bad recordings.

Better get 'em all . . . There's only 27 dates.
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Re: The Mel Belli guitar video series is back!
Reply #146 - Apr 15th, 2010 at 1:26pm
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Okay, I have no MT Dylan-era bootlegs. Who can help a brother out?!
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fka Sandrew (a proud Rocks Off member since November 2001)&&&&"The Rolling Stones don't want any money ... so I'll keep it." - Melvin Belli, "Gimme Shelter"&&&&"We act so greedy, makes me sick sick sick."&&&&...
 
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Re: The Mel Belli guitar video series is back!
Reply #147 - Apr 15th, 2010 at 1:29pm
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Mel Belli wrote on Apr 15th, 2010 at 1:26pm:
Okay, I have no MT Dylan-era bootlegs. Who can help a brother out?!



Have you downloaded via bittorrent?

http://www.hungercity.org/torrentsearch.php?search=1984&cat=12
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Re: The Mel Belli guitar video series is back!
Reply #148 - Apr 15th, 2010 at 1:49pm
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I have, but never from here. Thanks for the link!
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Re: The Mel Belli guitar video series is back!
Reply #149 - Apr 15th, 2010 at 3:51pm
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Thanks for the info Fu.  Downloading Newcastle '84 as we speak. 


Switching subjects a little, and I'm kind of embarrassed to admit it, but I dig the tune "Winning Ugly" - just can't get that lick down!  Anybody tried to play Keith's opening riff?
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