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andrews27

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Christgau's RS reviews
Jan 28^th, 2010 at 6:44pm

People may enjoy some Memory Lane (and contemporary aggro) at Robert Christgau's site compiling his complete Consumer Guides, more or less. Here's a link to the Stones summary page:

http://www.robertchristgau.com/get_artist.php?name=rolling+stones

Quote for review purposes:

"Their Satanic Majesties Request [London, 1967]
"Back in '67 men were men and rock groups were rock groups: the Beatles "long-awaited" Sgt. Pepper appeared only nine months after Revolver and was followed by Christmas's Magical Mystery Tour, and the Stones released three albums. I don't propose to determine whether Between the Buttons and Flowers are A's or A pluses, but this one's a challenge--probably the most controversial LP they ever made, it features two communal jams of a most un-Stoneslike looseness, a (mock-?) psychedelic jacket, and a very subdued Mick Jagger. Really, Mick doesn't sing here, not expressively, he simply projects lead vocals through a filter which is one metaphorical equivalent for the sense of distance that is the album's obsession. A lot of people consider Satanic Majesties a, how you say it, bummer, but I'm fond of it; without a doubt it contains several great songs ("Citadel," "2000 Man," "2000 Light Years from Home," and Bill Wyman's "In Another Land"). I must admit, however, that the jams are for aficionados only. B+"

More Stones content links at bottom of page cited.

Inspirational verse: "These are songs of conscience well-known sons of bitches can get away with."

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That guy that punched Mick at Altamont...and all the Hell's Angels...all that bad acid let them hear A Bigger Bang!!

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Mr. Yeats

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Re: Christgau's RS reviews
Reply #1 - Jan 28^th, 2010 at 7:38pm

Yeah, I've read all that stuff before. I do like Christgau's musical taste, but he's always been nearly unreadable. He's a horrible writer- he always sounds like he's really drunk AND doing a lot of acid.
He thinks he's Joyce, but he's not even close to Lester Bangs (who really was drunk and worse).

"What does Robert Christgau do? What is he, a toe-fucker?"- Lou Reed, 1978

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andrews27 Rocks Off Regular Offline Wake up Bowie or we all through!! Posts: 1,644 Pittsburgh, PA, USA Gender:	Re: Christgau's RS reviews Reply #2 - Jan 28^th, 2010 at 7:41pm "I beg your pardon/I never promised you a rose garden" -- Lynn Anderson
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Mr. Yeats

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Re: Christgau's RS reviews
Reply #3 - Jan 28^th, 2010 at 7:50pm

Oh, no offense intended, Andrews27. I've been reading that Christgau site for a couple years, and recall some of those reviews from when they were first published in "Rolling Stone" or "The Village Voice"; it was fun to re-read some of that stuff (his praise of 'Dirty Work'- I don't get it, and 'A Bigger Bang', which I do).

Just saying, though I've always read his stuff, and generally agreed with his tastes, I can't fathom what he's talking about sometimes (as I CAN with the truly weird Bangs or the overly sentimental Dave Marsh, for example).

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andrews27 Rocks Off Regular Offline Wake up Bowie or we all through!! Posts: 1,644 Pittsburgh, PA, USA Gender:	Re: Christgau's RS reviews Reply #4 - Jan 28^th, 2010 at 7:59pm Note the high marks given our bete noire, "Dirty Work"...
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Mr. Yeats Rocks Off Regular Offline Nothing beats fun for a good time. Posts: 704 Gender:	Re: Christgau's RS reviews Reply #5 - Jan 28^th, 2010 at 8:05pm Yup. But I do say "Sleep Tonight" is worth the price of the album itself- and Woody's drumming on it is sublime (Charlie made a good call on that one!).
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lotsajizz Rocks Off Regular Offline Rocks Off Rules You Bastards Posts: 1,818 Rhode Island Gender:	Re: Christgau's RS reviews Reply #6 - Jan 28^th, 2010 at 8:09pm Dirty Work is a masterpiece
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andrews27 Rocks Off Regular Offline Wake up Bowie or we all through!! Posts: 1,644 Pittsburgh, PA, USA Gender:	Re: Christgau's RS reviews Reply #7 - Jan 28^th, 2010 at 10:10pm So is Journey to the End of the Night by Louis-Ferdinand Celine, but everybody hates to read it.
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Prodigal Son

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Re: Christgau's RS reviews
Reply #8 - Jan 29^th, 2010 at 12:15am

Yeah I tend to agree with Christgau on 80% of what he says, with some minor differences here and there. The other 20% is where I disagree with him. He can see the promise in even the crappiest of pop (giving A's or A-minuses to records by the Backstreet Boys, the Black Eyed Peas!? He called The E.N.D. 2009's 5th best album when it was the shittiest thing the Black Eyed Peas have ever done). But he writes like an English major, which he is and which he nitpicks that Paul Simon does on Graceland, a record he otherwise praised and gave an A to. Being a budding music journalist/reviewer myself, I have gone over his site like gospel whether I like what he says or not. He really seems to hate religious-based music a lot, note George Harrison as one of the most consistently panned artists in the Consumer Guide (C for All Things Must Pass!? That album's at least a B+). Anyway, I say this compared to his Rolling Stones reviews:

TSMR: B
Ya-Yas: A-
Sticky Fingers: A (Ooo, lockstep)
Hot Rocks: A- (docked two marks from A+ quality for redundancy)
Exile: A+ (He saw the light on this one)
Goats Head: B+
IORR: B+
Made in the Shade: B+ (Pointless and short compilation)
Metamorphosis: B-
Black and Blue: A-
Love You Live: B-
Some Girls: A
Emotional Rescue: B-
Sucking in the Seventies: B (Why?)
Tattoo You: A-
Still Life: B
Undercover: B-
Rewind: A- (Good collection that has a long enough time span to pick gold out of)
Dirty Work: C+ (Don't get why Christgau likes it)
Steel Wheels: B
Flashpoint: B
Voodoo Lounge: B+
Stripped: A-
Bridges to Babylon: B
No Security: B-
Bigger Bang: B
Shine a Light: B

Oh and here's a sample of my work:
http://www.pressplus1.com/music-reviews/dreamin-man-live-92-neil-young-sparse-an...

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andrews27

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Re: Christgau's RS reviews
Reply #9 - Jan 29^th, 2010 at 3:30pm

I know, Prodigal - It's sad to read the Consumer Guides of the 1990s and 2000s, because of the stuff that relatively merits an A through B+ grade. Once in a while a Love & Theft-quality record, but no strings of stuff the caliber of 1970s Dylan, Bowie, RS, etc.

And I agree with Mr. Yeats - Christgau's syntax is shockingly bad to a grown-up. I'm glad that in college I learned to write briefly and pithily from Christgau, but got my mechanics from technically finer critics and historians.

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That guy that punched Mick at Altamont...and all the Hell's Angels...all that bad acid let them hear A Bigger Bang!!

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Paranoid Android Rocks Off Regular Offline The Rocks Off Ladies Rule You Bastards!! Posts: 6,344 Chapel Hill, NC Gender:	Re: Christgau's RS reviews Reply #10 - Jan 29^th, 2010 at 4:00pm Need to get my eyes checked...reading the thread topic, I thought this was about Christina Aguilera
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Re: Christgau's RS reviews
Reply #11 - Jan 29^th, 2010 at 5:43pm

andrews27 wrote on Jan 29^th, 2010 at 3:30pm:

I know, Prodigal - It's sad to read the Consumer Guides of the 1990s and 2000s, because of the stuff that relatively merits an A through B+ grade. Once in a while a Love & Theft-quality record, but no strings of stuff the caliber of 1970s Dylan, Bowie, RS, etc.

And I agree with Mr. Yeats - Christgau's syntax is shockingly bad to a grown-up. I'm glad that in college I learned to write briefly and pithily from Christgau, but got my mechanics from technically finer critics and historians.

Most of the records he's given an A+ to in the past 20 years are recordings by a jazz or African artist. Other than that spot on A+ for Love and Theft, he did give A-plus to Madonna's Immaculate Collection, Arcade Fire's Neon Bible, Iris Dement's My Life, Endtroducing DJ Shadow, MIA's Kala, Moby's Play, Tricky's Maxinquaye, Lucinda Williams' Car Wheels on a Gravel Road, Brian Wilson's SMiLe and Sonic Youth's A Thousand Leaves Left. I agree with the grades for Arcade Fire, Tricky, DJ Shadow, Lucinda Williams and Brian Wilson but the others getting an A+ is a real stretch (though I do enjoy them all except Madonna's). Maybe Lucinda's masterpiece is the Exile of our times in terms of stature though. Such a deep, stunning album through all 13 cuts.

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72Tele Rocks Off Regular Offline Rocks Off Rules You Bastards Posts: 91 Western NY State Gender:	Re: Christgau's RS reviews Reply #12 - Jan 29^th, 2010 at 6:17pm Lou Reed goes on a nice rant about Christgau specifically and critics in general during Walk On The Wild Side off of the Take No Prisoners live album. Starts at about the 5:55 mark. Great line "what does Robert Christqua do in bed? is he a toe fucker?". He goes on from there.
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Prodigal Son

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Re: Christgau's RS reviews
Reply #13 - Jan 29^th, 2010 at 6:33pm

72Tele wrote on Jan 29^th, 2010 at 6:17pm:

Lou Reed goes on a nice rant about Christgau specifically and critics in general during Walk On The Wild Side off of the Take No Prisoners live album. Starts at about the 5:55 mark. Great line "what does Robert Christqua do in bed? is he a toe fucker?". He goes on from there.

Yeah, my fave part is "Imagine working on an album for a whole year and some asshole in the Village Voice gives it a B-plus."

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andrews27

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Re: Christgau's RS reviews
Reply #14 - Jan 29^th, 2010 at 7:04pm

Prodigal Son wrote on Jan 29^th, 2010 at 5:43pm:

Most of the records he's given an A+ to in the past 20 years are recordings by a jazz or African artist.

Which was always Bob's modus for staying au courant, from which King Sunny Ade and Toots Hibbert, among others, once justly benefited. But just page through 2008-2009 online, and you'll find way too many Dubious Achievement Award grades, which is Bob's modus for staying employable now.

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Mr. Yeats

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Re: Christgau's RS reviews
Reply #15 - Jan 29^th, 2010 at 8:33pm

andrews27 wrote on Jan 29^th, 2010 at 3:30pm:

I know, Prodigal - It's sad to read the Consumer Guides of the 1990s and 2000s, because of the stuff that relatively merits an A through B+ grade. Once in a while a Love & Theft-quality record, but no strings of stuff the caliber of 1970s Dylan, Bowie, RS, etc.

And I agree with Mr. Yeats - Christgau's syntax is shockingly bad to a grown-up. I'm glad that in college I learned to write briefly and pithily from Christgau, but got my mechanics from technically finer critics and historians.

Yup.
So who else did you dig, as reviewers AND writers, andrews27? Bangs? Marsh? Paul Nelson? Robert Hillburn? Maybe Ralph J. Gleason?

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andrews27 Rocks Off Regular Offline Wake up Bowie or we all through!! Posts: 1,644 Pittsburgh, PA, USA Gender:	Re: Christgau's RS reviews Reply #16 - Jan 30^th, 2010 at 11:18pm Tom Carson Jonathan Cott Ken Emerson Dave Marsh Paul Nelson Paul Williams (at Crawdaddy) Jon Landau was a supreme film critic in the old Rolling Stone And...Bangs, le grande blurt. Generally anybody who took a scholarly-historical tack.
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Re: Christgau's RS reviews
Reply #17 - Jan 30^th, 2010 at 11:24pm

Mr. Yeats wrote on Jan 29^th, 2010 at 8:33pm:

andrews27 wrote on Jan 29^th, 2010 at 3:30pm:

I know, Prodigal - It's sad to read the Consumer Guides of the 1990s and 2000s, because of the stuff that relatively merits an A through B+ grade. Once in a while a Love & Theft-quality record, but no strings of stuff the caliber of 1970s Dylan, Bowie, RS, etc.

And I agree with Mr. Yeats - Christgau's syntax is shockingly bad to a grown-up. I'm glad that in college I learned to write briefly and pithily from Christgau, but got my mechanics from technically finer critics and historians.

Yup.
So who else did you dig, as reviewers AND writers, andrews27? Bangs? Marsh? Paul Nelson? Robert Hillburn? Maybe Ralph J. Gleason?

imho Charles Shaar Murray leaves them all in his wake - for style, wit and insight he has no peer

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Mr. Yeats Rocks Off Regular Offline Nothing beats fun for a good time. Posts: 704 Gender:	Re: Christgau's RS reviews Reply #18 - Feb 1^st, 2010 at 2:29pm Yup, forgot about CS Murray. Very good writer, very clever and witty and really knows his stuff. Also Greil Marcus, whom many consider to be too academic and dense, but he's a brilliant musicologist and social critic.
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