ROCKS OFF - The Rolling Stones Message Board

Gazza

Unholy Trinity Admin

Offline

Rat Bastid "We piss
anywhere, man.."

Posts: 13,231
Belfast, UK
Gender: male

Re: So What's The Deal With This Album? ....from I
Reply #50 - Oct 24^th, 2009 at 12:04pm

Ian Billen wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2009 at 9:48pm:

Gazza wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2009 at 6:26am:

First of all, get Mick Jagger to write some good songs that dont read like the outpourings of a 14 year old who's just discovered the joys of masturbation and get Keith...hell, just get Keith to write.

Once they've done that, they can bring in The Pope or the Dalai Lama to produce them for all it matters.

______________________

Mick DOES write good stuff ...and regardless of what others think Keith still can too.

Mick DOES indeed write 'good stuff' (or did, last time he released anything - over four years ago) - he's also however capable at the same time of turgid, juvenile nonsense (ONNYA, Streets of love, Neocon) I'd rather he had someone who could have the balls to stand up to him (like Rubin did) and tell him when his stuff isnt up to par than be surrounded by yes-men who will tell him his shit doesnt stink.

The amount of material written solely or largely by Keith which he has released in any shape of form since 1994 barely amounts to ten or twelve songs. To suggest he 'still can' when his output has slowed down to a trickle over the last decade is a statement based on blind faith rather than evidence.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Oct 24^th, 2009 at 12:35pm by Gazza »

IP Logged

Ian Billen

Rocks Off Regular

Offline

Rocks Off Rules

Posts: 1,564
USA
Gender: male

Re: So What's The Deal With This Album? ....from I
Reply #51 - Oct 24^th, 2009 at 10:04pm

Gazza wrote on Oct 24^th, 2009 at 12:04pm:

Ian Billen wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2009 at 9:48pm:

[quote author=Gazza link=1255925637/25#42 date=1256297163]First of all, get Mick Jagger to write some good songs that dont read like the outpourings of a 14 year old who's just discovered the joys of masturbation and get Keith...hell, just get Keith to write.

Once they've done that, they can bring in The Pope or the Dalai Lama to produce them for all it matters.

______________________

Mick DOES write good stuff ...and regardless of what others think Keith still can too.

Gazza: Mick DOES indeed write 'good stuff' (or did, last time he released anything - over four years ago) - he's also however capable at the same time of turgid, juvenile nonsense (ONNYA, Streets of love, Neocon) I'd rather he had someone who could have the balls to stand up to him (like Rubin did) and tell him when his stuff isnt up to par than be surrounded by yes-men who will tell him his shit doesnt stink.

_________________________

My reply: *I understand where your coming from.

Gazza: The amount of material written solely or largely by Keith which he has released in any shape of form since 1994 barely amounts to ten or twelve songs.

____________________________

*My reply: Solely (meaning on his own entirely) Keith hasn't done much since 94 . Your right. I am saying when writing WITH Mick he still is a viable component of that song writing team. Well ....hopefully he still is...

Ian

Back to top

Thought you were dinner ...but you were the shark ..

IP Logged

Honky Tonk Man

Rocks Off Regular

Offline

Rocks Off Rules You Bastards

Posts: 2,272
London
Gender: male

Re: So What's The Deal With This Album? ....from I
Reply #52 - Oct 25^th, 2009 at 7:43am

Ian Billen wrote on Oct 24^th, 2009 at 10:04pm:

[quote author=Gazza link=1255925637/50#50 date=1256403867][quote

*My reply: Solely (meaning on his own entirely) Keith hasn't done much since 94 . Your right. I am saying when writing WITH Mick he still is a viable component of that song writing team. Well ....hopefully he still is...

Ian

Personally, I doubt Mick and Keith have written a song together since Andrew Oldham locked the pair of them in a room in 1964 – or whenever it was.

Back to top

IP Logged

gotdablouse Rocks Off Regular Offline Rocks Off Rules You Bastards Posts: 1,002 Paris, France Gender:	Re: So What's The Deal With This Album? ....from I Reply #53 - Oct 25^th, 2009 at 9:08am Depends what you mean by "writing together", Voodoo Residue proves they still bounce(d) very early song ideas off one another with the other one helping out. Apart from starting from a blank piece of paper like Macca and Costello did in 1987 for some songs it's hard to do any "better" I'd say.
Back to top	Unreleased Tracks IP Logged

Gazza

Unholy Trinity Admin

Offline

Rat Bastid "We piss
anywhere, man.."

Posts: 13,231
Belfast, UK
Gender: male

Re: So What's The Deal With This Album? ....from I
Reply #54 - Oct 25^th, 2009 at 11:58am

They generally dont write songs from scratch together (mainly because they lead different lives, dont mix together and dont even live on the same continent), but they will get together before a recording session and put their heads together, see what each other has and flesh a few ideas out. The extent of how much they do that varies from one album to the next. On BTB, it was hardly the case at all - it was more so on ABB, but that in itself doesnt negate the fact that the songs are for the most part, written by one of them and not together. Lennon and McCartney largely worked the same way.

There's a bit of 'propaganda' surrounding each release in which they tend to over-emphasise how close they're working together and that it hasnt been this way since the 60's etc, but when they say that for pretty much every record, it becomes harder to take seriously.

Back to top

IP Logged

Ian Billen

Rocks Off Regular

Offline

Rocks Off Rules

Posts: 1,564
USA
Gender: male

Re: So What's The Deal With This Album? ....from I
Reply #55 - Oct 25^th, 2009 at 9:36pm

[quote author=Gazza link=1255925637/50#54 date=1256489893]They generally dont write songs from scratch together (mainly because they lead different lives, dont mix together and dont even live on the same continent), but they will get together before a recording session and put their heads together, see what each other has and flesh a few ideas out.

____________________________________

Yeah. This is what they seem to be doin more from how they talk about how things went in the writing process any more. I just WISH they would also start from scratch as they did often a long time ago in the 1960's. Half the songs they produced in the 70's were written while the two were apart as well...then the other might of changed it or reworked it or added the lyrics. Don't get me wrong ....the songs would not be the same on half of them if they didn't try and alter what the other one has come up with in their time apart but still I do WISH they tried writing the lot of them from scratch together as they used to in thew 60's for the most part.

Ian

Back to top

Thought you were dinner ...but you were the shark ..

IP Logged

Gazza

Unholy Trinity Admin

Offline

Rat Bastid "We piss
anywhere, man.."

Posts: 13,231
Belfast, UK
Gender: male

Re: So What's The Deal With This Album? ....from I
Reply #56 - Oct 26^th, 2009 at 11:53am

I personally dont think it matters. If it consistently worked better each time, then they'd DO it that way all the time. Stands to sense.

'Some Girls' was almost all Mick songs. Didnt do that album any harm. Best Stones album since 1972.

The end justifies the means every time. If it works, it doesnt matter how they got there.

Back to top

IP Logged

Bitch Rocks Off Regular Offline I always get my Rocks Off! Posts: 4,900 FL - USA Gender:	Re: So What's The Deal With This Album? ....from I Reply #57 - Oct 26^th, 2009 at 1:24pm Don't hang around 'cause two's a crowd On their cloud baby
Back to top	IP Logged

Ian Billen

Rocks Off Regular

Offline

Rocks Off Rules

Posts: 1,564
USA
Gender: male

Re: So What's The Deal With This Album? ....from I
Reply #58 - Oct 26^th, 2009 at 10:41pm

Gazza wrote on Oct 26^th, 2009 at 11:53am:

I personally dont think it matters. If it consistently worked better each time, then they'd DO it that way all the time. Stands to sense.

'Some Girls' was almost all Mick songs. Didnt do that album any harm. Best Stones album since 1972.

The end justifies the means every time. If it works, it doesnt matter how they got there.

___________________________

True. However Some girls was over 30 years ago. Why not try like they did in the gold old days of Beggars or LIB? It may work consistently better in that sense BUT .....it hasn't worked up to the standard like in the days of old. Not that I expect stuff of that magnitude but it may freshen things up a bit and help them put out something at least really, really good now.

Ian

Back to top

Thought you were dinner ...but you were the shark ..

IP Logged

left shoe shuffle

Rocks Off Regular

Offline

Posts: 4,141

Re: So What's The Deal With This Album?
Reply #59 - Oct 29^th, 2009 at 5:30pm

Ian Billen wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2009 at 12:31am:

Well Don Was is finishing up with Stone Temple Pilots on their new album (i am lookin forward to hearin it).

According to Weiland, STP will be completing their new album in early 2010.

www.spinner.com/2009/10/27/stone-temple-pilots-plan-new-album-and-long-tour-in-2...

Back to top

« Last Edit: Oct 29^th, 2009 at 5:32pm by left shoe shuffle »

IP Logged

Gazza

Unholy Trinity Admin

Offline

Rat Bastid "We piss
anywhere, man.."

Posts: 13,231
Belfast, UK
Gender: male

Re: So What's The Deal With This Album? ....from I
Reply #60 - Oct 29^th, 2009 at 5:34pm

Ian Billen wrote on Oct 26^th, 2009 at 10:41pm:

Gazza wrote on Oct 26^th, 2009 at 11:53am:

I personally dont think it matters. If it consistently worked better each time, then they'd DO it that way all the time. Stands to sense.

'Some Girls' was almost all Mick songs. Didnt do that album any harm. Best Stones album since 1972.

The end justifies the means every time. If it works, it doesnt matter how they got there.

___________________________

True. However Some girls was over 30 years ago. Why not try like they did in the gold old days of Beggars or LIB? It may work consistently better in that sense BUT .....it hasn't worked up to the standard like in the days of old. Not that I expect stuff of that magnitude but it may freshen things up a bit and help them put out something at least really, really good now.

Ian

Back then they lived on the same street. Literally.

Back then a record is where they made the most of their money. Now its touring. The last album didnt sell well compared to how many people bought tickets which cost up to 30 times as much. The disparity will be even greater next time around.

Back then they were still artistically driven.

Now? Dudes don't care.

Back to top

IP Logged

Heart Of Stone

Rocks Off Regular

Offline

Rocks Off Rules

Posts: 4,001
Charlottetown Prince Edward Is
Gender: male

Re: So What's The Deal With This Album? ....from I
Reply #61 - Oct 29^th, 2009 at 8:50pm

Gazza wrote on Oct 29^th, 2009 at 5:34pm:

Ian Billen wrote on Oct 26^th, 2009 at 10:41pm:

Gazza wrote on Oct 26^th, 2009 at 11:53am:

I personally dont think it matters. If it consistently worked better each time, then they'd DO it that way all the time. Stands to sense.

'Some Girls' was almost all Mick songs. Didnt do that album any harm. Best Stones album since 1972.

The end justifies the means every time. If it works, it doesnt matter how they got there.

___________________________

True. However Some girls was over 30 years ago. Why not try like they did in the gold old days of Beggars or LIB? It may work consistently better in that sense BUT .....it hasn't worked up to the standard like in the days of old. Not that I expect stuff of that magnitude but it may freshen things up a bit and help them put out something at least really, really good now.

Ian

Back then they lived on the same street. Literally.

Back then a record is where they made the most of their money. Now its touring. The last album didnt sell well compared to how many people bought tickets which cost up to 30 times as much. The disparity will be even greater next time around.

Back then they were still artistically driven.

Now? Dudes don't care.

I think personally every artist/band has their golden period, their best, when what they did was like magic, they can never go back & recapture that, let's face it, The Stones had their best period already, or what Gazza mentioned, was artistically driven, I think we're expecting to much from them, their in their 60's now, there will never be another Beggar's Banquet, LIB, or whatever album we think was the best, if they did, it would be a miracle.

Back to top

The Rolling Stones ain't just a group, their a way of life-Andrew Loog Oldham.
[URL=http://s6.photobucket.com/user/merrillm123/media/69inLA.jpg.html]

IP Logged

Gazza

Unholy Trinity Admin

Offline

Rat Bastid "We piss
anywhere, man.."

Posts: 13,231
Belfast, UK
Gender: male

Re: So What's The Deal With This Album? ....from I
Reply #62 - Oct 29^th, 2009 at 9:03pm

Heart Of Stone wrote on Oct 29^th, 2009 at 8:50pm:

Gazza wrote on Oct 29^th, 2009 at 5:34pm:

Ian Billen wrote on Oct 26^th, 2009 at 10:41pm:

Gazza wrote on Oct 26^th, 2009 at 11:53am:

I personally dont think it matters. If it consistently worked better each time, then they'd DO it that way all the time. Stands to sense.

'Some Girls' was almost all Mick songs. Didnt do that album any harm. Best Stones album since 1972.

The end justifies the means every time. If it works, it doesnt matter how they got there.

___________________________

True. However Some girls was over 30 years ago. Why not try like they did in the gold old days of Beggars or LIB? It may work consistently better in that sense BUT .....it hasn't worked up to the standard like in the days of old. Not that I expect stuff of that magnitude but it may freshen things up a bit and help them put out something at least really, really good now.

Ian

Back then they lived on the same street. Literally.

Back then a record is where they made the most of their money. Now its touring. The last album didnt sell well compared to how many people bought tickets which cost up to 30 times as much. The disparity will be even greater next time around.

Back then they were still artistically driven.

Now? Dudes don't care.

I think personally every artist/band has their golden period, their best, when what they did was like magic, they can never go back & recapture that, let's face it, The Stones had their best period already, or what Gazza mentioned, was artistically driven, I think we're expecting to much from them, their in their 60's now, there will never be another Beggar's Banquet, LIB, or whatever album we think was the best, if they did, it would be a miracle.

I agree. The Stones dont owe me another record or tour as far as I'm concerned. Having decided about 30 years ago to follow THIS band, at a time when they were considered to be near the end of their career, I think we've done more than OK - longevity wise, better than fans of any other band have done.

Some artists have periods in their later career where they get some kind of artistic rebirth or resurgence. Some don't. The Stones still make very good records when they get around to doing so, to be fair to them. Its still much better than getting nothing at all from them - however having insisted for a long time they WEREN'T a nostalgia act, its quite evident there's been a significant volte-face in the last decade, as there's evidently a lot more money to be made from nostalgia.

Back to top

IP Logged

Ian Billen

Rocks Off Regular

Offline

Rocks Off Rules

Posts: 1,564
USA
Gender: male

Re: So What's The Deal With This Album? ....from I
Reply #63 - Oct 29^th, 2009 at 10:31pm

Well look I certainly realize another magnitude album like LIB or Beggars is out of the possibility now. I also realize The stones gave more much MORE than one could expect from a band though all these years, and after all they been through. I mean .....they brushed all of it off and kept on rolling. What more can a fan ask for. As well, they still make very good records as Gazza stated. Better than a good 90% of whats out there. For example if ABB was from a new band I'd have to say "hey .....these guys are good". And for crimony's sake these dudes are in their 60's!

HOWEVER, why not at-least TRY to get back to doing things the way they used to in hopes of putting out the very best possible product. I think they really DO care if the record is good. I think they really DO care about their rep as a recording act to a good degree.

Who cares where they live now... ya know. They can do anything they want ....heck they can rent a place all on the same street or rent or go anywhere they want and do it any way they want. So why not get back to their roots as when they used ton put out truly great things? At least it could change it up a bit now in hopes of putting out the best possible stuff.

Do you think anyone in their camp thought of it? I'm sure at one juncture or another it crossed someones mind.

Ian

Back to top

Thought you were dinner ...but you were the shark ..

IP Logged

left shoe shuffle Rocks Off Regular Offline Posts: 4,141	Re: So What's The Deal With This Album? Reply #64 - Oct 29^th, 2009 at 10:46pm Maybe they'll go to that camp in Russia where Rocky trained to fight Drago...
Back to top	IP Logged

Ian Billen

Rocks Off Regular

Offline

Rocks Off Rules

Posts: 1,564
USA
Gender: male

Re: So What's The Deal With This Album?
Reply #65 - Oct 29^th, 2009 at 11:29pm

left shoe shuffle wrote on Oct 29^th, 2009 at 10:46pm:

Maybe they'll go to that camp in Russia where Rocky trained to fight Drago...

______________________

It's certainly a possibility....

Thing is, the music would probably have that Rocky sound and vibe yet while still being "Stonzey"...

Keith could pick up that sled with the rest of the band sitting in it during some of the sessions just to show he's still got it. Shocked

What a great concept.

Ian

Back to top

« Last Edit: Oct 29^th, 2009 at 11:30pm by Ian Billen »

Thought you were dinner ...but you were the shark ..

IP Logged