Rolling Stones' manager derides The Verve
The Verve at Oxegen 2008
Andrew Loog Oldham jokes about the 'Bitter Sweet Symphony' 'steal'

Oct 7, 2008
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Andrew Loog Oldham has derided The Verve over their use of a Rolling Stones sample in their 1997 classic 'Bitter Sweet Symphony'.

The legendary former manager of The Rolling Stones joked to Uncut that he has bought "a pretty presentable watch strap" with the royalties that he has earned from the song.

"They [Mick Jagger and Keith Richards] have the watch and I have a pretty presentable watch strap. That's my little piece," he told our sister title.

'Bitter Sweet Symphony' uses an Andrew Oldham Orchestra recording of 'The Last Time' for its orchestral hook, and was the subject of a legal challenge by The Rolling Stones shortly after its release.

Loog Oldham, Mick Jagger and Keith Richards have since received all of the royalty payments from the song, after it was successfully argued that although The Verve had negotiated to use a sample, they had used "too much".

"As for Richard Ashcroft, well, I don't know how an artist can be severely damaged by that experience. Songwriters have learned to call songs their children, and he thinks he wrote something. He didn't. I hope he's got over it. It takes a while," Loog Oldham added.

For the full interview with Andrew Loog Oldham, buy this month's Uncut, onsale now.

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speedfreakjive wrote on Oct 7^th, 2008 at 1:12pm:


Really, all royalties go to the Stones? I had the impression they got a share, but not all of it! 
I absolutely adore the Verve too. And their new album is pure magic.

it really beggars beleif how this happened

certainly there is a case that the authors of the music sampled should get credit and a cut  ( i actually thought it was klein that snapped it all up - is oldham on the level here?)

BUT the big thing is, how did the Verve allow themselves to be put in a position where they got nothing yet were entirely responsible for the lyrics

it was either gross incompetence on the part of the band, their managers and advisers or there is more to this than has ever been  revealed

Regardles, it is a masterpiece of a song, and along with maybe 1 or two other songs, perfectly captures "Brit pop" and "Cool Brittannia" for me. The lyrics are brilliant and i love the film clip too.

Jeez, the hand is always out, innit?

It has been my understanding that the royalties paid on the Abkco controlled stuff is that Mick and Keith receive half of what Klein receives.

So, if a song pays one dollar USD, Allen receives 50 cents, Mick receives 25 cents and Keith receives 25 cents. What Mr. Oldham is referring to as far as "Mick and Keith got the watch, I got the watch band" refers to the fact that artists, in addition to receiving the lucrative writing royalties (if applicable), also receive performance royalties and/or producer rolayties. My guess is that with this sample by Verve, Oldham receives producer credits and a portion of the performance royalties. To my knowledge, the only writer credit that Oldham is paid on with his work with The Rolling Stones is the 1/3 writing split on "As Tears Go By." In the instance of that song, again based on a one dollar payout, Klein receives 50 cents, Mick approximatley 16.5 cents, Keith 16.5 cents, and Andrew 16.5 cents.

To this day, I still hear "As Tears Go By" now and then in "musak" or "middle of the road" formats.
On elevators, in grocery stores. And the penny's add up.
Andrew Oldham has enjoyed a nice lifestyle due to his work from 1963-1967. The checks still arrive in the mailbox every quarter. Not too bad for a half decades worth of work.

andrews , while i agreed with your comment "This was a scurillous suit and quite beneath them," - i was going to say it was Klein that motivated it ( and i believe it was) - - however - thanx souldoggie for that explanation of the situation (tho i was aware of the writing/performance distinction) - i don't know what your authorities are but you sound as if you know what you are talking about

the other funny thing is the riff in BS Symphony is from an orchestarted version of the "The Last Time" - i can't for the life of me hear any connection between the two pieces of music

anybody heard the original track??

I heard the Andrew Loog Oldham Orchestra track exactly once.  As far as I can remember, the "riff" for the Verve song is edited together from string fills behind the main melody of ATGB.  Which means that Mick and Keith didn't write them (and Oldham probably didn't) - but their names on an ALO Orch production are enough to establish ownership.  This whole thing stinks, and the Verve would have been better off hiring a string quartet to replay the cut-together samples from a master dub.  They might have gotten off with a settlement was the playing not lifted directly from the original ALO Orch recording.