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Poll Poll
Question: What item is most likely found in the top drawer of Riffy's dresser?

naked pictures of Reagan    
  5 (20.0%)
Barry O voodoo doll    
  3 (12.0%)
Hoffa's body    
  2 (8.0%)
DVDs of "saved by the bell", season 3    
  1 (4.0%)
JC's boss's phone number    
  2 (8.0%)
bucket of chicken    
  5 (20.0%)
three sticks of "secret" deoderant, labels facing out    
  3 (12.0%)
"Eagles Greatest Hits" CD    
  4 (16.0%)




Total votes: 25
« Last Modified by: Starbuck on: Mar 3rd, 2010 at 5:01pm »

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Obama elected President (Read 615,053 times)
Riffhard
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #9600 - Mar 29th, 2010 at 1:57pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
fuman wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 1:52pm:
Riffhard wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 1:48pm:
fuman wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 1:44pm:
Sounds like the Vatican has forgiven themselves in the child abuse scandal.
Must have been a tough decision for them.

The Pope said something to the effect of it being an image problem for the church.

They have a fine line to tread here.
Wouldn't want to have people start questioning the churches morals now.

I have no doubt that everybody reading this thread thinks this is disgusting, but what does the Vatican think about it?




I say we round up all the Christians, and especially the Catholics, and burn them at the stake! Or better yet, maybe Obama can make religion (mainly the Christian religion) illegal. That would be good, right? Oh, and isn't it funny that Obama attended a church for over 20 years that preached hatred of country and white people. Is that why you are so in love with the worst president in US history-Barack Obama?



Riffy



Interesting response.

The Pope didn't mention the children is his response either.
Just the impact to the church.

Just sayin' . . .




I'm not Catholic you dumbshit! I just won't stand around and watch you practice blatant bigotry against people of faith.



Riffy
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...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&"When all government...in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided...” Thomas Jefferson&&&&"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases." — Thomas Jefferson&&&&&&&&We're not old men.We don't bother about petty morals--Keef&&&&Actually, it only takes one drink to get me loaded. Trouble is, I can't remember if it's the thirteenth or fourteenth. &&-- George Burns&&&&&&I ain't no leftist!-Bob Dylan&&&&"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce
 
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LadyJane
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #9601 - Mar 29th, 2010 at 2:02pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
Nellcote wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 1:53pm:
fuman wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 1:44pm:
Sounds like the Vatican has forgiven themselves in the child abuse scandal.
Must have been a tough decision for them.

The Pope said something to the effect of it being an image problem for the church.

They have a fine line to tread here.
Wouldn't want to have people start questioning the churches morals now.

I have no doubt that everybody reading this thread thinks this is disgusting, but what does the Vatican think about it?

One of the first church-sex crimes in modern history was right here in Massachusetts.
There were four priests in my town, one of them married my wife & myself!
What did the church do?
Sent then Cardinal Law to Rome, where he could avoid prosecution for all he knew.
He now sits in Rome eating lobster while countless thousands have to live with the never
ending horror which is in their mind from this abuse.
The Pope must resign, plain & simple.
Anything short of this is criminal.


This Irish Catholic agrees with you 150%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Shameful.
I think I'd make a better Episcopalian but I have great devotion to the Blessed Mother and the Saints, especially St Jude.

I despise Pope Benedict, the Nazi.

LJ.
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...
 
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fuman
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #9602 - Mar 29th, 2010 at 2:08pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
Riffhard wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 1:57pm:
fuman wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 1:52pm:
Riffhard wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 1:48pm:
fuman wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 1:44pm:
Sounds like the Vatican has forgiven themselves in the child abuse scandal.
Must have been a tough decision for them.

The Pope said something to the effect of it being an image problem for the church.

They have a fine line to tread here.
Wouldn't want to have people start questioning the churches morals now.

I have no doubt that everybody reading this thread thinks this is disgusting, but what does the Vatican think about it?




I say we round up all the Christians, and especially the Catholics, and burn them at the stake! Or better yet, maybe Obama can make religion (mainly the Christian religion) illegal. That would be good, right? Oh, and isn't it funny that Obama attended a church for over 20 years that preached hatred of country and white people. Is that why you are so in love with the worst president in US history-Barack Obama?



Riffy



Interesting response.

The Pope didn't mention the children is his response either.
Just the impact to the church.

Just sayin' . . .




I'm not Catholic you dumbshit! I just won't stand around and watch you practice blatant bigotry against people of faith.



Riffy



I am aware of the rift between Catholics and Christians, and never thought you were Catholic.

All I did was comment on the Pope's weak statement regarding the child abuse scandal.
I never called you a "dumbshit". People can read and decide for themselves.

It is amazing to me that the Vatican isn't more savvy than this. It's the children we're talking about.
Heads need to roll on this one. Apologies aren't enough. What the fuck is going on? Where's the outrage?

Why am I the only commenter here, with this opinion?
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Nellcote
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So, what's your point?

Posts: 2,922
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #9603 - Mar 29th, 2010 at 2:12pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
LadyJane wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 2:02pm:
Nellcote wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 1:53pm:
fuman wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 1:44pm:
Sounds like the Vatican has forgiven themselves in the child abuse scandal.
Must have been a tough decision for them.

The Pope said something to the effect of it being an image problem for the church.

They have a fine line to tread here.
Wouldn't want to have people start questioning the churches morals now.

I have no doubt that everybody reading this thread thinks this is disgusting, but what does the Vatican think about it?

One of the first church-sex crimes in modern history was right here in Massachusetts.
There were four priests in my town, one of them married my wife & myself!
What did the church do?
Sent then Cardinal Law to Rome, where he could avoid prosecution for all he knew.
He now sits in Rome eating lobster while countless thousands have to live with the never
ending horror which is in their mind from this abuse.
The Pope must resign, plain & simple.
Anything short of this is criminal.


This Irish Catholic agrees with you 150%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Shameful.
I think I'd make a better Episcopalian but I have great devotion to the Blessed Mother and the Saints, especially St Jude.

I despise Pope Benedict, the Nazi.

LJ.

Sadly, it has had a profound effect on what we do with the church.
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"slide your body, girl, right across the floor..do the Southside Shuffle..."Southside Shuffle-Mighty J Geils Band
 
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fuman
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #9604 - Mar 29th, 2010 at 2:14pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
LadyJane wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 2:02pm:
Nellcote wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 1:53pm:
fuman wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 1:44pm:
Sounds like the Vatican has forgiven themselves in the child abuse scandal.
Must have been a tough decision for them.

The Pope said something to the effect of it being an image problem for the church.

They have a fine line to tread here.
Wouldn't want to have people start questioning the churches morals now.

I have no doubt that everybody reading this thread thinks this is disgusting, but what does the Vatican think about it?

One of the first church-sex crimes in modern history was right here in Massachusetts.
There were four priests in my town, one of them married my wife & myself!
What did the church do?
Sent then Cardinal Law to Rome, where he could avoid prosecution for all he knew.
He now sits in Rome eating lobster while countless thousands have to live with the never
ending horror which is in their mind from this abuse.
The Pope must resign, plain & simple.
Anything short of this is criminal.


This Irish Catholic agrees with you 150%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Shameful.
I think I'd make a better Episcopalian but I have great devotion to the Blessed Mother and the Saints, especially St Jude.

I despise Pope Benedict, the Nazi.

LJ.



Saint Jude? The Patron Saint of Lost Causes?
I was born in St Jude's Hospital, which gave my siblings plenty of material for teasing me while growing up . . .
(maybe I've just armed my detractors here?)

This current Pope looks evil to me, but I don't think that is a reason to dislike him.
I wish this whole thing would get investigated though. It's the children getting abused!!!

I'm with Christopher Hitchens on this one. I just don't get it . . . .
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LadyJane
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #9605 - Mar 29th, 2010 at 2:16pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
fuman wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 2:08pm:
Riffhard wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 1:57pm:
fuman wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 1:52pm:
Riffhard wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 1:48pm:
fuman wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 1:44pm:
Sounds like the Vatican has forgiven themselves in the child abuse scandal.
Must have been a tough decision for them.

The Pope said something to the effect of it being an image problem for the church.

They have a fine line to tread here.
Wouldn't want to have people start questioning the churches morals now.

I have no doubt that everybody reading this thread thinks this is disgusting, but what does the Vatican think about it?




I say we round up all the Christians, and especially the Catholics, and burn them at the stake! Or better yet, maybe Obama can make religion (mainly the Christian religion) illegal. That would be good, right? Oh, and isn't it funny that Obama attended a church for over 20 years that preached hatred of country and white people. Is that why you are so in love with the worst president in US history-Barack Obama?



Riffy



Interesting response.

The Pope didn't mention the children is his response either.
Just the impact to the church.

Just sayin' . . .




I'm not Catholic you dumbshit! I just won't stand around and watch you practice blatant bigotry against people of faith.



Riffy



I am aware of the rift between Catholics and Christians, and never thought you were Catholic.

All I did was comment on the Pope's weak statement regarding the child abuse scandal.
I never called you a "dumbshit". People can read and decide for themselves.

It is amazing to me that the Vatican isn't more savvy than this. It's the children we're talking about.
Heads need to roll on this one. Apologies aren't enough. What the fuck is going on? Where's the outrage?

Why am I the only commenter here, with this opinion?


HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????
Read the last posts of myself and Nellcote.

Back to top
 

...
 
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2000monkey
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #9606 - Mar 29th, 2010 at 2:39pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
...
On his first day of Obama Socialist Reeducation Holiday Camp Fox News Clown Charles "The Hammer" Krauthammer learns what most correct thinking people already know..Reagan was a twat!

Reality behind lofty rhetoric on Reagan legacy
By BOB BUZZANCO


WITH the passing of Ronald Reagan we will read tributes to his legacy as the "great communicator," his political skills, his patriotic fervor. What will probably go unsaid, however, is that Reagan's policies, particular his economic views — dubbed "voodoo economics" by candidate George H.W. Bush during the 1980 election — contributed to the greatest disparity between wealth and poverty since the Depression, caused huge reductions in real wages and income for most Americans, accumulated the greatest budget deficits in U.S. history, and, in "reverse Robin Hood" fashion, redistributed wealth from working people to the rich. A critical aspect of Reagan's legacy, which has become a persistent social problem for the past generation, was class war from the top down.

Reagan ran for president promising massive cuts in taxes and social services but attendant increases in military spending, hence the "voodoo" label. As president, he and his economic team were able to secure huge reductions in taxes, driving the top income tax rate down about 30 percent, from 38.5 percent to 28 percent, the lowest in the industrialized world. With this loss of revenue, and trillion-dollar Pentagon budgets, Reagan was forced to borrow to meet government financial obligations.

Government debts, much of them foreign held, rose into the hundreds of billions by the mid-1980s and hit $1 trillion in the early 1990s. Personal debt, a result in cuts in social services, declining wages and a ramped up consumer culture, erupted, climbing to more than $3 trillion, while nonfinancial corporate indebtedness rose to more than $2 billion. Reagan, who ran and governed as a fiscal conservative and small-government advocate, had in fact created the greatest deficit and biggest government obligations in U.S. history.

Such policies, hailed by Reagan's supporters as an economic revival in the 1980s, created great wealth for one segment of the population, the top 20-30 percent, who saw their tax burdens drop and their incomes rise. The level of tax paid by the top 1 percent decreased from 31 percent to 23 percent between 1981 and 1984, while their income share rose from 41 percent to 44 percent.

Incomes of the top 5 percent rose more than 27 percent, to about $120,000, and the highest 20 percent went up about 25 percent, to around $70,000. The next 20 percent of income earners saw a nominal rise in wealth during the 1980s, while the rest, 60 percent of Americans, saw no rise at all or, in the case of the lowest two-fifths, actually saw a decline in income and savings. In fact, income inequality rose each year of the Reagan administration, while taxes were correspondingly lowered and the national debt grew. Adding to the economic burden of working Americans, public services were deeply cut at federal, state and municipal levels, and, because of the tight-money policies pursued by the administration and federal reserve system, wages remained low, if not falling.

In fact, weekly per worker income dropped substantially during the Reagan years. Where the average American might take home a paycheck for $366 in 1972, she would earn $312 in 1987. Median family income, about $31,000 a year in 1973, plummeted in the early 1980s until recovering to 1973 levels in the late 1980s. After-tax median income, however, remained well below 1970s-era levels because of the redistribution of wealth caused by the tax cuts and debts regimen of the Reagan years.

The data on family income is likewise striking. Only the top 20 percent of Americans saw an increase in family income between 1977 and 1988, with the top 10th gaining an increase of about $17,000, the top 5 percent seeing an extra $31,000, and the top 1 percent with a whopping $134,000 increase. Middle-class and working Americans, however, saw declines in real income from about $600 to $1,600 in the Reagan era.

Real wages fell also. Where the median pay for working men in 1973 was a little over $10 an hour in 1973, it fell to $8.85 by 1987. The average worker without an advanced degree might have made about $24,000 a year in the early 1970s, but by the end of the Reagan years, that was down to around $18,000. Exacerbating such economic problems, millions of jobs were "downsized" or fled overseas, while unions, traditionally the source of better wages and working conditions, were further crushed.

So, as we listen to the testimonials to Reagan, as we reflect upon his visions, presidency and goals, we must, for the sake of historical integrity and political realism, acknowledge his economic policies. "Reaganomics" took wealth and income from working people and reallocated it to the wealthy via huge tax cuts, job losses and debts. He caused a reduction in wages for the majority of Americans. He spent trillions on the Pentagon but cut services to the average American. Today, as we survey a generation of job losses, of wage cuts, of opportunities lessened, we have to make that part of the Reagan legacy as much as his lofty rhetoric and patriotic imagery.
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Pdog
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #9607 - Mar 29th, 2010 at 2:40pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
Riffhard wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 1:43pm:
fuman wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 1:04pm:
Riffhard wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 12:41pm:
fuman wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 12:30pm:
Man Threatened To Kill Cantor In YouTube Video
http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/03/man-threatened-to-kill-cantor-i...

This time, it's for real . . .
I hope they lock this asshole up and throw away the key.





I fully agree with you on this funman, and I might add, that had anyone threatened Pelosi, Reid, or Barry I would say the same thing. The only death that I wish upon those fools is their political death, and that's coming very soon.


I guess that guy is just some unhinged radical right winger. Oh, wait.....never mind.




Riffy





I haven't heard about his politics.
He has previously made threatening remarks towards Obama and Biden.

Apparently he is a very religious fellow.

He seemed to warn repeatedly about some sort of end-times event to come on Sept. 19, 2009. "You will beg to have your head chopped off ... the angels are here, all of them, and god is preparing his wrath. Soon very soon you will all know it and then destruction," he said to the camera in the shirtless video."


Palin has been caught on camera talking about the end of times, although it was from many years ago.
Perhaps she now knows how foolish that type of talk sounds?



Oh I see funman. So what you are saying is that because he has a religious spin on his insanity that makes him a even crazier? He's insane funman! His suppossed religion hasn't a damned thing to do with it!!!


Christians are not any less intelligent, or any more crazy, than you are funman! Get the fuck over your Christian bigotry!  It's offensive as hell. It's one thing to slam someones political leanings, but to intentionally try and portray those of faith as somehow less enlightened than you are is just absurd!



Riffy



this from a guy who says liberals are dumber and that my exp. that has shaped my beliefs makes me inferior to you...
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fuman
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #9608 - Mar 29th, 2010 at 2:42pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
LadyJane wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 2:16pm:
fuman wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 2:08pm:
Riffhard wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 1:57pm:
fuman wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 1:52pm:
Riffhard wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 1:48pm:
fuman wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 1:44pm:
Sounds like the Vatican has forgiven themselves in the child abuse scandal.
Must have been a tough decision for them.

The Pope said something to the effect of it being an image problem for the church.

They have a fine line to tread here.
Wouldn't want to have people start questioning the churches morals now.

I have no doubt that everybody reading this thread thinks this is disgusting, but what does the Vatican think about it?




I say we round up all the Christians, and especially the Catholics, and burn them at the stake! Or better yet, maybe Obama can make religion (mainly the Christian religion) illegal. That would be good, right? Oh, and isn't it funny that Obama attended a church for over 20 years that preached hatred of country and white people. Is that why you are so in love with the worst president in US history-Barack Obama?



Riffy



Interesting response.

The Pope didn't mention the children is his response either.
Just the impact to the church.

Just sayin' . . .




I'm not Catholic you dumbshit! I just won't stand around and watch you practice blatant bigotry against people of faith.



Riffy



I am aware of the rift between Catholics and Christians, and never thought you were Catholic.

All I did was comment on the Pope's weak statement regarding the child abuse scandal.
I never called you a "dumbshit". People can read and decide for themselves.

It is amazing to me that the Vatican isn't more savvy than this. It's the children we're talking about.
Heads need to roll on this one. Apologies aren't enough. What the fuck is going on? Where's the outrage?

Why am I the only commenter here, with this opinion?


HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????
Read the last posts of myself and Nellcote.




Right, sorry.

I must have been typing my post when those two were posted.

Anyway, I know we all get sick hearing about any child abuse.
I hope the church throws this Pope out, and cooperates in an investigation of the allegations.
If found guilty, he needs to go to prison. He shouldn't get a pass on child abuse.
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fuman
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Gender: male
Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #9609 - Mar 29th, 2010 at 2:44pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
Pdog wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 2:40pm:
Riffhard wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 1:43pm:
fuman wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 1:04pm:
Riffhard wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 12:41pm:
fuman wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 12:30pm:
Man Threatened To Kill Cantor In YouTube Video
http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/03/man-threatened-to-kill-cantor-i...

This time, it's for real . . .
I hope they lock this asshole up and throw away the key.





I fully agree with you on this funman, and I might add, that had anyone threatened Pelosi, Reid, or Barry I would say the same thing. The only death that I wish upon those fools is their political death, and that's coming very soon.


I guess that guy is just some unhinged radical right winger. Oh, wait.....never mind.




Riffy





I haven't heard about his politics.
He has previously made threatening remarks towards Obama and Biden.

Apparently he is a very religious fellow.

He seemed to warn repeatedly about some sort of end-times event to come on Sept. 19, 2009. "You will beg to have your head chopped off ... the angels are here, all of them, and god is preparing his wrath. Soon very soon you will all know it and then destruction," he said to the camera in the shirtless video."


Palin has been caught on camera talking about the end of times, although it was from many years ago.
Perhaps she now knows how foolish that type of talk sounds?



Oh I see funman. So what you are saying is that because he has a religious spin on his insanity that makes him a even crazier? He's insane funman! His suppossed religion hasn't a damned thing to do with it!!!


Christians are not any less intelligent, or any more crazy, than you are funman! Get the fuck over your Christian bigotry!  It's offensive as hell. It's one thing to slam someones political leanings, but to intentionally try and portray those of faith as somehow less enlightened than you are is just absurd!



Riffy



this from a guy who says liberals are dumber and that my exp. that has shaped my beliefs makes me inferior to you...



We can see the irony, but he won't see it or won't admit it. Oh well.
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Riffhard
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Posts: 1,940
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #9610 - Mar 29th, 2010 at 2:48pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
Pdog wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 2:40pm:
Riffhard wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 1:43pm:
fuman wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 1:04pm:
Riffhard wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 12:41pm:
fuman wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 12:30pm:
Man Threatened To Kill Cantor In YouTube Video
http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/03/man-threatened-to-kill-cantor-i...

This time, it's for real . . .
I hope they lock this asshole up and throw away the key.





I fully agree with you on this funman, and I might add, that had anyone threatened Pelosi, Reid, or Barry I would say the same thing. The only death that I wish upon those fools is their political death, and that's coming very soon.


I guess that guy is just some unhinged radical right winger. Oh, wait.....never mind.




Riffy





I haven't heard about his politics.
He has previously made threatening remarks towards Obama and Biden.

Apparently he is a very religious fellow.

He seemed to warn repeatedly about some sort of end-times event to come on Sept. 19, 2009. "You will beg to have your head chopped off ... the angels are here, all of them, and god is preparing his wrath. Soon very soon you will all know it and then destruction," he said to the camera in the shirtless video."


Palin has been caught on camera talking about the end of times, although it was from many years ago.
Perhaps she now knows how foolish that type of talk sounds?



Oh I see funman. So what you are saying is that because he has a religious spin on his insanity that makes him a even crazier? He's insane funman! His suppossed religion hasn't a damned thing to do with it!!!


Christians are not any less intelligent, or any more crazy, than you are funman! Get the fuck over your Christian bigotry!  It's offensive as hell. It's one thing to slam someones political leanings, but to intentionally try and portray those of faith as somehow less enlightened than you are is just absurd!



Riffy



this from a guy who says liberals are dumber and that my exp. that has shaped my beliefs makes me inferior to you...




You got it!


Riffy
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...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&"When all government...in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided...” Thomas Jefferson&&&&"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases." — Thomas Jefferson&&&&&&&&We're not old men.We don't bother about petty morals--Keef&&&&Actually, it only takes one drink to get me loaded. Trouble is, I can't remember if it's the thirteenth or fourteenth. &&-- George Burns&&&&&&I ain't no leftist!-Bob Dylan&&&&"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce
 
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fuman
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #9611 - Mar 29th, 2010 at 2:49pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
2000monkey wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 2:39pm:
...
On his first day of Obama Socialist Reeducation Holiday Camp Fox News Clown Charles "The Hammer" Krauthammer learns what most correct thinking people already know..Reagan was a twat!

Reality behind lofty rhetoric on Reagan legacy
By BOB BUZZANCO


WITH the passing of Ronald Reagan we will read tributes to his legacy as the "great communicator," his political skills, his patriotic fervor. What will probably go unsaid, however, is that Reagan's policies, particular his economic views — dubbed "voodoo economics" by candidate George H.W. Bush during the 1980 election — contributed to the greatest disparity between wealth and poverty since the Depression, caused huge reductions in real wages and income for most Americans, accumulated the greatest budget deficits in U.S. history, and, in "reverse Robin Hood" fashion, redistributed wealth from working people to the rich. A critical aspect of Reagan's legacy, which has become a persistent social problem for the past generation, was class war from the top down.

Reagan ran for president promising massive cuts in taxes and social services but attendant increases in military spending, hence the "voodoo" label. As president, he and his economic team were able to secure huge reductions in taxes, driving the top income tax rate down about 30 percent, from 38.5 percent to 28 percent, the lowest in the industrialized world. With this loss of revenue, and trillion-dollar Pentagon budgets, Reagan was forced to borrow to meet government financial obligations.

Government debts, much of them foreign held, rose into the hundreds of billions by the mid-1980s and hit $1 trillion in the early 1990s. Personal debt, a result in cuts in social services, declining wages and a ramped up consumer culture, erupted, climbing to more than $3 trillion, while nonfinancial corporate indebtedness rose to more than $2 billion. Reagan, who ran and governed as a fiscal conservative and small-government advocate, had in fact created the greatest deficit and biggest government obligations in U.S. history.

Such policies, hailed by Reagan's supporters as an economic revival in the 1980s, created great wealth for one segment of the population, the top 20-30 percent, who saw their tax burdens drop and their incomes rise. The level of tax paid by the top 1 percent decreased from 31 percent to 23 percent between 1981 and 1984, while their income share rose from 41 percent to 44 percent.

Incomes of the top 5 percent rose more than 27 percent, to about $120,000, and the highest 20 percent went up about 25 percent, to around $70,000. The next 20 percent of income earners saw a nominal rise in wealth during the 1980s, while the rest, 60 percent of Americans, saw no rise at all or, in the case of the lowest two-fifths, actually saw a decline in income and savings. In fact, income inequality rose each year of the Reagan administration, while taxes were correspondingly lowered and the national debt grew. Adding to the economic burden of working Americans, public services were deeply cut at federal, state and municipal levels, and, because of the tight-money policies pursued by the administration and federal reserve system, wages remained low, if not falling.

In fact, weekly per worker income dropped substantially during the Reagan years. Where the average American might take home a paycheck for $366 in 1972, she would earn $312 in 1987. Median family income, about $31,000 a year in 1973, plummeted in the early 1980s until recovering to 1973 levels in the late 1980s. After-tax median income, however, remained well below 1970s-era levels because of the redistribution of wealth caused by the tax cuts and debts regimen of the Reagan years.

The data on family income is likewise striking. Only the top 20 percent of Americans saw an increase in family income between 1977 and 1988, with the top 10th gaining an increase of about $17,000, the top 5 percent seeing an extra $31,000, and the top 1 percent with a whopping $134,000 increase. Middle-class and working Americans, however, saw declines in real income from about $600 to $1,600 in the Reagan era.

Real wages fell also. Where the median pay for working men in 1973 was a little over $10 an hour in 1973, it fell to $8.85 by 1987. The average worker without an advanced degree might have made about $24,000 a year in the early 1970s, but by the end of the Reagan years, that was down to around $18,000. Exacerbating such economic problems, millions of jobs were "downsized" or fled overseas, while unions, traditionally the source of better wages and working conditions, were further crushed.

So, as we listen to the testimonials to Reagan, as we reflect upon his visions, presidency and goals, we must, for the sake of historical integrity and political realism, acknowledge his economic policies. "Reaganomics" took wealth and income from working people and reallocated it to the wealthy via huge tax cuts, job losses and debts. He caused a reduction in wages for the majority of Americans. He spent trillions on the Pentagon but cut services to the average American. Today, as we survey a generation of job losses, of wage cuts, of opportunities lessened, we have to make that part of the Reagan legacy as much as his lofty rhetoric and patriotic imagery.



The right's argument is that everybody should pay the same rate regardless of income (right?).
It's not fair to charge one American more than another.

I disagree with this concept.
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #9612 - Mar 29th, 2010 at 3:06pm
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You gotta love the bias in that story.
Note how he calls the tax breaks (that is, where those who pay the majority of taxes anyway had their taxes redcued) a "redistribution" from the poor to the rich.

That is not redistribution.
The people that were not paying much in taxes did NOT have to pay more -- the story even says that, illustrating the self-contradiction.  And the people whose taxes were reduced were allowed to keep more of the money they earned.  So the whole premise of the story with respect to tax cuts is just plain wrong.

Now, as for real wages and family incomes, I do not doubt that those dropped.
But that was not a result of the change in taxation policy -- it was due to the fact that Reagan inherited a horrible economy and countries like Japan were making huge inroads into many industries such as autos, steel, banking, etc.  So there was more competition from abroad and no change in taxation would have changed that.

I agree that the military budget under Reagan did increase significantly.
There is no question that he ran up the national debt because of that.
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #9613 - Mar 29th, 2010 at 3:33pm
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nankerphelge wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 3:06pm:
You gotta love the bias in that story.
Note how he calls the tax breaks (that is, where those who pay the majority of taxes anyway had their taxes redcued) a "redistribution" from the poor to the rich.

That is not redistribution.
The people that were not paying much in taxes did NOT have to pay more -- the story even says that, illustrating the self-contradiction.  And the people whose taxes were reduced were allowed to keep more of the money they earned.  So the whole premise of the story with respect to tax cuts is just plain wrong.

Now, as for real wages and family incomes, I do not doubt that those dropped.
But that was not a result of the change in taxation policy -- it was due to the fact that Reagan inherited a horrible economy and countries like Japan were making huge inroads into many industries such as autos, steel, banking, etc.  So there was more competition from abroad and no change in taxation would have changed that.

I agree that the military budget under Reagan did increase significantly.
There is no question that he ran up the national debt because of that.



I was thinking the exact same thing Nanky! Very biased way of writing, and a complete historical revision as the left is so prone to do with regards to Reagan. And, yes, Reagan did spend a whole lot on the military. It's only too bad that nothing came from all that spending, like say the collapse of the Soviet Union, or the fall of the Berlin Wall. Liberals hate Reagan because everything that he did worked and the American people loved him for it. We need another Ronlad Wilson Reagan so bad right now. The fuckstick that is in office right now can only fool the fools.



Riffy
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #9614 - Mar 29th, 2010 at 3:41pm
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Riffhard wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 2:48pm:
Pdog wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 2:40pm:
Riffhard wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 1:43pm:
fuman wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 1:04pm:
Riffhard wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 12:41pm:
fuman wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 12:30pm:
Man Threatened To Kill Cantor In YouTube Video
http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/03/man-threatened-to-kill-cantor-i...

This time, it's for real . . .
I hope they lock this asshole up and throw away the key.





I fully agree with you on this funman, and I might add, that had anyone threatened Pelosi, Reid, or Barry I would say the same thing. The only death that I wish upon those fools is their political death, and that's coming very soon.


I guess that guy is just some unhinged radical right winger. Oh, wait.....never mind.




Riffy





I haven't heard about his politics.
He has previously made threatening remarks towards Obama and Biden.

Apparently he is a very religious fellow.

He seemed to warn repeatedly about some sort of end-times event to come on Sept. 19, 2009. "You will beg to have your head chopped off ... the angels are here, all of them, and god is preparing his wrath. Soon very soon you will all know it and then destruction," he said to the camera in the shirtless video."


Palin has been caught on camera talking about the end of times, although it was from many years ago.
Perhaps she now knows how foolish that type of talk sounds?



Oh I see funman. So what you are saying is that because he has a religious spin on his insanity that makes him a even crazier? He's insane funman! His suppossed religion hasn't a damned thing to do with it!!!


Christians are not any less intelligent, or any more crazy, than you are funman! Get the fuck over your Christian bigotry!  It's offensive as hell. It's one thing to slam someones political leanings, but to intentionally try and portray those of faith as somehow less enlightened than you are is just absurd!



Riffy



this from a guy who says liberals are dumber and that my exp. that has shaped my beliefs makes me inferior to you...




You got it!


Riffy


your proud to be a bigot, and put down fuman calling him a bigot... is your bigotry only limiterd to select groups, but others are fair game, meaning your not a bigot towrds muslims, but fuman is towards catholics? you're so fitting the description...
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #9615 - Mar 29th, 2010 at 3:59pm
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Riffhard wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 10:43am:
Hey Pdog, why don't you get off your Dr. Phil Jr.
kick! I don't have any personality disorder. It's called anger.


...

I think someone trained in recognizing that sort of
thing would find your contributions to this thread
interesting, to say the least. And it's difficult for
personality disorders, by their very nature, to be
accurately diagnosed by the people who have them.  
The people they yell at every day have a much
better vantage point.



Riffhard wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 10:43am:
You have bought into the whole "Hope and Change" horseshit, and I haven't.


I hear THAT, Mr. Riffhard!  There's no hope for you, and you'll never change.



Riffhard wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 10:43am:
I KNOW what Barack Obama wants to do to this nation.



You KNOW what he wants to do...because Mark Levin told you, or because you read between the lines of Obama's books, or because you dug up the rotting corpse of Saul Alinsky and yell at it every evening until it confesses?

Riffhard wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 10:43am:
You haven't figured it out yet, or you're just too smitten with the Marxist fuck to consider the consequences.



Those are the ONLY two possible explanations? And, any way you can tone down your filthy language?


Riffhard wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 10:43am:
You try and claim that Reagan allowed millions to suffer at the expense of the evil "rich people", but that is pure bullshit. Here is a fact-the median income for every class of American went up during the Regan years, and went up at higher rate than at any time before or since his Presidency.


Here's another FACT (funny how facts can totally contradict each other yet still be facts):

According to the Statistical Abstract of the United States for 1996, the number of people (white, black, and Hispanic) below the poverty level increased in almost every year between 1981 (31.8 million) and 1992 (39.3 million).


The savings rate did not rise in the 1980s, as supply-side advocates had predicted. In fact, in the 1980s the personal savings rate fell from 8 percent to 6.5 percent. If the median family was better off why did their savings go down?

other FACTS about your mancrush Ronnie Raygun:

During his reign, the trade deficit quadrupled.

In 1980, the last year of Spendocrat Jimmy Carter, the federal government spent $591 billion. In 1986, halway into the second Reagan administration, the federal government spent $990 billion, an increase of 68%. Whatever this is, it is emphatically not reducing government expenditures.


PLUS you spelled Reagan wrong!! (haw haw!) I know you HATE spelling corrections, but come on...it's your idol! Unless you're talking about DONALD REGAN, who was a member of Reagan's "economic troika." WHOA..."troika" is a ROOSKY word! Like Czar only three times worse! Commie alert!



Lots more FACTS here:

The Myth of Reaganomics: http://mises.org/daily/1544

You might also want to read something by Bruce Bartlett.  http://www.amazon.com/New-American-Economy-Failure-Reaganomics/dp/0230615872



Riffhard wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 10:43am:

I deal in facts you deal in liberal myths, and propaganda. You've so bought in to the liberal tactic of class warfare that you happily go right along with Barry when he slams insurance companies, the oil industry, the coal industry, and on, and on, and on.....You go right along with his intentionally divisive tactics. Barry needs you to hate these entities. So he really goes out of his way to convince otherwise intelligent people to surrender their liberty to him/government . You must get angry at big insurance so you will stupidly agree that only the government can handle your family's health care choices. And you do. Just like a good little drone.


This is such crap...both your repeatedly telling PDog (and ANYONE who disagrees with you) what he does or doesn't believe and why, and your absolutely ridiculous idea that he, or anyone who's ever dealt with an insurance company, are angry at those companies only because they've been duped by that bad ol' Marxist Obama. Insurance reform is DECADES overdue and the Republicans had many opportunities to do it, in whatever non-Commie way they saw fit, when they held power. They chose not to.  They HAVE, however, made sure it didn't happen. Until now.


Riffhard wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 10:43am:

I point out that Medicare has the worst record with regard to covering those with "preexisting" conditions, and what do you say? "There's another example of your personality disorder!" What a crock of bullshit! You got, and are still getting, conned Pdog!!! Obama doesn't give two flying fucks about your family!!! In fact I'd bet my last dollar that Obama doesn't give two flying fucks about anyone, save himself. He is a fucking conman angling for more power, and if he can convince a few million fools that he cares about them more than do the "evil rich", and "big insurance" companies than so much the better.


The example of your personality disorder here is not the pros and cons of Medicare, but your inability to do it without saying PDog believes it because he's been conned, or because Obama is a power-hungry madman, or without cursing a ridiculous number of times. Please tone it down. Think of the children! Won't SOMEBODY think of the children!!!

Riffhard wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 10:43am:

It's called "class warfare", Pdog, and you've completely fallen for it. He damns the rich and you cheer.


When? Facts, please.

Riffhard wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 10:43am:

He promises to confiscate their money and give it to you and you cheer.


Again...when?


Riffhard wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 10:43am:

He destroys private insurance companies, and you root him on.


Facts, please.


Riffhard wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 10:43am:

Meanwhile you are surrendering more and more of your personal liberty and freedom to a man that despises his own country. You don't even know what you are giving away!


Wow!  I need a double dose of facts on that one. Not your gut feeling, or because Mark Levin says so.  How about a quote from his books? "I despise America because..." that sort of thing. You know, the "facts" which you claim to specialize in. NOT a quote from Rev. Wright, NOT a quote from Saul Alinsky, NOT a quote from Karl Marx, but an actual honest-to-Christ FACT.




Riffhard wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 10:43am:

You also have zero idea of how in the hell we are going to pay for this. Here's another fact for you Pdog-your children are going to suffer for the rest of their lives under a mountain of debt that you ignorantly applaud.

You, and those like you, have screwed your own children, and you're too naive to even know it!

This is why I get so damned angry. The most ill informed fools in this country are destroying the future for my kids too! Wealth redistribution can only spread poverty Pdog!!!


First off, the insinuation of incest is pretty sick, but also probably just a result of you typing with your ass. Second, PDog's kids, and yours, will be dead before they're done paying for the invasion of Iraq, even though we were told that the oil revenues (which I guess we were going to steal?) would pay for everything.  So you really oughta switch over to "We're bankrupting our great-great-grandchildren!" as a new rallying cry. It's not as catchy, but hey.



Riffhard wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 10:43am:

Show me one example of a country that has enriched the lives of it's countrymen by means of taxation of the rich. Just one. Can you? Can BJ? How about funman?


Um...all of our major allies?



Riffhard wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 10:43am:

Barack Obama is the single most dangerous man to ever be elected to the office of
president, and those that are stupid enough to support him will get zero respect from
me. For they are guilty of sentencing my kids to a life where the American Dream
can only be achieved with the help of the government.


You really need to start doing yoga or something.


...


Riffhard wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 10:43am:

And if you haven't already figured it out, Barry rigs the game. He always has.
He's a fucking charlatan!


Riffy  


Oh...that's a new one. So the Republicans, despite every delaying tactic in the
book, were finally defeated on the Health Insurance Reform bill because...the
game was rigged?  Is that howe he got elected too? 

A new delusion! I suppose this is progress!
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #9616 - Mar 29th, 2010 at 4:06pm
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Revisionist History
by Forgiven
    I'm sorry, I normally don't speak ill of the dead, but that is based on the preposition that they stay dead. I don't know how it happens, but it seems to happen a lot in America; people rise from the grave. There was Elvis, Tupac, Marilyn Monroe, and now Ronald Reagan.

    The reincarnate Ronald Reagan is a lot different from the original, I guess being dead for 3 years will do that to you. The reincarnate Ronald Reagan was last spotted at the Republican candidate debate, but since that appearance he is being booked all over the media. I thought it was crazy that Tupac wrote more albums after he died than he did when he was living, but Mr. Reagan has written a diary. Of course the diary is not new, but as usual when things are going badly there are some who long for the "good ole days". The reincarnation of Ronald Reagan would be humorous if not for its nefarious intentions.

    I asked myself, why is it necessary for the conservatives to create this mythical "white knight" that is now Ronald Reagan? The answer is simple really and very ingenious, you see people can have flaws, but icons do not. If the conservatives are able to succeed in making Ronald Reagan bigger than life, then they can hitch their flawed policies to him and give these ideas credibility that they do not deserve. The beginning of this has readily on display with the republican candidates falling all over themselves to out-Reagan one another. With all the money and spin being utilized to remake Mr. Reagan maybe we should look at who he really was and what he represented free; from the hype.

    To many Ronald Reagan represented a return to "good ole" American values. His handlers had crafted this image of a John Wayne with a heart, the beginning of compassionate conservatism. The thing you have to hand it to this conservatives is that they will craft a strategy and continue to play it out over years. If they are nothing else they are patient. Think about it, there was a time in this country when conservatism was a mockery. After the Barry Goldwater melt down, few took conservatism seriously as a viable strategy to govern and considered a fringe element even in the Republican Party. It was at this bleak time that they begin the long push to make conservatism mainstream. They began by attacking liberalism. By the time they were done, calling someone a liberal was tantamount to a personal affront.

    Ronald Reagan despite his short comings was an opportunist and he appeared on the scene at just the right time. He was a natural for the greatest role he would ever play and had the credentials from his years as an informant for the McCarthy crew and as the Governor of California. It is interesting to note that for most of his presidency, Mr. Reagan was not popular. Despite today's spin being spewed by former Reaganites, his only period of decent popularity was during his reelection period of 1984 to 1986. That was due almost entirely on the surging economy and not any proposal or ideas offered up by Reagan. So let's go to the record.

    Reagan brought down communism is one of the main talking points of Reagan promoters. Ok, just because you happen to be in office when an event occurred doesn't mean you caused the event. There has never been any direct evidence that any of Reagan's policies or rhetoric had any effect on the fall of the Communist block. Mr. Reagan take down that wall of lies that was built around you.

    Ronald Reagan was a tax cutter. Actually no, he signed the biggest middle-class tax increase in history. The whole "Reagan Recovery" was a farce. In truth most Americans paid more taxes under Reagan than before Reagan.

    Then of course there was that Iran-Contra thing, the union busting (PATCO), the racist policy of engaging South Africa, the illegal war in Central America, the ignoring of AIDS, there was the 138 administration officials convicted, there was the whole Alzheimer's rumors, and the governing by astrology.

    When you look at the true record of Ronald Reagan, you see that this reincarnation of Reagan is a right wing conservative trick to put forward its agenda under a new brand. Thanks to the right wing onslaught, there are many who think Reagan was a great President, but the truth is that he wasn't. Divisive politics should be rejected no matter what brand they are being packaged under. Let's let sleeping dogs lie. We don't need another Reagan, we need another Lincoln...

False history gets made all day, any day,
the truth of the new is never on the news - Adrienne Rich

...
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #9617 - Mar 29th, 2010 at 5:08pm
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haha... thx JC, that was awesome... when you finally take your mask off, Riffy is going to shit a pickel... this is a first class ass whooping you put on him, and i'm glad you did it in response to his insults and bullshit at me... very much appreciated. Especially the incest part, that was gold!
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #9618 - Mar 29th, 2010 at 5:57pm
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Jesus Christ wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 3:59pm:
Riffhard wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 10:43am:
Hey Pdog, why don't you get off your Dr. Phil Jr.
kick! I don't have any personality disorder. It's called anger.


...

I think someone trained in recognizing that sort of
thing would find your contributions to this thread
interesting, to say the least. And it's difficult for
personality disorders, by their very nature, to be
accurately diagnosed by the people who have them.  
The people they yell at every day have a much
better vantage point.



Riffhard wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 10:43am:
You have bought into the whole "Hope and Change" horseshit, and I haven't.


I hear THAT, Mr. Riffhard!  There's no hope for you, and you'll never change.



Riffhard wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 10:43am:
I KNOW what Barack Obama wants to do to this nation.



You KNOW what he wants to do...because Mark Levin told you, or because you read between the lines of Obama's books, or because you dug up the rotting corpse of Saul Alinsky and yell at it every evening until it confesses?

Riffhard wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 10:43am:
You haven't figured it out yet, or you're just too smitten with the Marxist fuck to consider the consequences.



Those are the ONLY two possible explanations? And, any way you can tone down your filthy language?


Riffhard wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 10:43am:
You try and claim that Reagan allowed millions to suffer at the expense of the evil "rich people", but that is pure bullshit. Here is a fact-the median income for every class of American went up during the Regan years, and went up at higher rate than at any time before or since his Presidency.


Here's another FACT (funny how facts can totally contradict each other yet still be facts):

According to the Statistical Abstract of the United States for 1996, the number of people (white, black, and Hispanic) below the poverty level increased in almost every year between 1981 (31.8 million) and 1992 (39.3 million).


The savings rate did not rise in the 1980s, as supply-side advocates had predicted. In fact, in the 1980s the personal savings rate fell from 8 percent to 6.5 percent. If the median family was better off why did their savings go down?

other FACTS about your mancrush Ronnie Raygun:

During his reign, the trade deficit quadrupled.

In 1980, the last year of Spendocrat Jimmy Carter, the federal government spent $591 billion. In 1986, halway into the second Reagan administration, the federal government spent $990 billion, an increase of 68%. Whatever this is, it is emphatically not reducing government expenditures.


PLUS you spelled Reagan wrong!! (haw haw!) I know you HATE spelling corrections, but come on...it's your idol! Unless you're talking about DONALD REGAN, who was a member of Reagan's "economic troika." WHOA..."troika" is a ROOSKY word! Like Czar only three times worse! Commie alert!



Lots more FACTS here:

The Myth of Reaganomics: http://mises.org/daily/1544

You might also want to read something by Bruce Bartlett.  http://www.amazon.com/New-American-Economy-Failure-Reaganomics/dp/0230615872



Riffhard wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 10:43am:

I deal in facts you deal in liberal myths, and propaganda. You've so bought in to the liberal tactic of class warfare that you happily go right along with Barry when he slams insurance companies, the oil industry, the coal industry, and on, and on, and on.....You go right along with his intentionally divisive tactics. Barry needs you to hate these entities. So he really goes out of his way to convince otherwise intelligent people to surrender their liberty to him/government . You must get angry at big insurance so you will stupidly agree that only the government can handle your family's health care choices. And you do. Just like a good little drone.


This is such crap...both your repeatedly telling PDog (and ANYONE who disagrees with you) what he does or doesn't believe and why, and your absolutely ridiculous idea that he, or anyone who's ever dealt with an insurance company, are angry at those companies only because they've been duped by that bad ol' Marxist Obama. Insurance reform is DECADES overdue and the Republicans had many opportunities to do it, in whatever non-Commie way they saw fit, when they held power. They chose not to.  They HAVE, however, made sure it didn't happen. Until now.


Riffhard wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 10:43am:

I point out that Medicare has the worst record with regard to covering those with "preexisting" conditions, and what do you say? "There's another example of your personality disorder!" What a crock of bullshit! You got, and are still getting, conned Pdog!!! Obama doesn't give two flying fucks about your family!!! In fact I'd bet my last dollar that Obama doesn't give two flying fucks about anyone, save himself. He is a fucking conman angling for more power, and if he can convince a few million fools that he cares about them more than do the "evil rich", and "big insurance" companies than so much the better.


The example of your personality disorder here is not the pros and cons of Medicare, but your inability to do it without saying PDog believes it because he's been conned, or because Obama is a power-hungry madman, or without cursing a ridiculous number of times. Please tone it down. Think of the children! Won't SOMEBODY think of the children!!!

Riffhard wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 10:43am:

It's called "class warfare", Pdog, and you've completely fallen for it. He damns the rich and you cheer.


When? Facts, please.

Riffhard wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 10:43am:

He promises to confiscate their money and give it to you and you cheer.


Again...when?


Riffhard wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 10:43am:

He destroys private insurance companies, and you root him on.


Facts, please.


Riffhard wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 10:43am:

Meanwhile you are surrendering more and more of your personal liberty and freedom to a man that despises his own country. You don't even know what you are giving away!


Wow!  I need a double dose of facts on that one. Not your gut feeling, or because Mark Levin says so.  How about a quote from his books? "I despise America because..." that sort of thing. You know, the "facts" which you claim to specialize in. NOT a quote from Rev. Wright, NOT a quote from Saul Alinsky, NOT a quote from Karl Marx, but an actual honest-to-Christ FACT.




Riffhard wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 10:43am:

You also have zero idea of how in the hell we are going to pay for this. Here's another fact for you Pdog-your children are going to suffer for the rest of their lives under a mountain of debt that you ignorantly applaud.

You, and those like you, have screwed your own children, and you're too naive to even know it!

This is why I get so damned angry. The most ill informed fools in this country are destroying the future for my kids too! Wealth redistribution can only spread poverty Pdog!!!


First off, the insinuation of incest is pretty sick, but also probably just a result of you typing with your ass. Second, PDog's kids, and yours, will be dead before they're done paying for the invasion of Iraq, even though we were told that the oil revenues (which I guess we were going to steal?) would pay for everything.  So you really oughta switch over to "We're bankrupting our great-great-grandchildren!" as a new rallying cry. It's not as catchy, but hey.



Riffhard wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 10:43am:

Show me one example of a country that has enriched the lives of it's countrymen by means of taxation of the rich. Just one. Can you? Can BJ? How about funman?


Um...all of our major allies?



Riffhard wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 10:43am:

Barack Obama is the single most dangerous man to ever be elected to the office of
president, and those that are stupid enough to support him will get zero respect from
me. For they are guilty of sentencing my kids to a life where the American Dream
can only be achieved with the help of the government.


You really need to start doing yoga or something.


...


Riffhard wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 10:43am:

And if you haven't already figured it out, Barry rigs the game. He always has.
He's a fucking charlatan!


Riffy  


Oh...that's a new one. So the Republicans, despite every delaying tactic in the
book, were finally defeated on the Health Insurance Reform bill because...the
game was rigged?  Is that howe he got elected too?  

A new delusion! I suppose this is progress!


That was a world class smackdown you just laid down there. Beautiful stuff man!
MM
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #9619 - Mar 29th, 2010 at 6:28pm
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JC/FPM gave me a smackdown?! LOL! Hardley! The little pussified bastard likes to pretend he knows what he's talking about, but alas, he is wrong. Again.

Here are some real facts about Reagan, and you can spin all the liberal lies about his policies you like but history tells the truth. I could do the whole FPM act of breaking out specific lines in a post and then ripping them to shreds, but I neither have the time nor inclination to do so. It's funny that some of you seem to think that JC/FPM/Jon got anything right, but I would like to see one example of where actually disputed what I have said with genuine facts. Is Obama a socialist? Damn straight he is, but he's even worse  than that he's a straight up Marxist. You need look no further than his own writings to know that.

Ain't it funny how week after the passage of a health care bill that the majority of Americans did not want, the majority of Americans now want the whole thing repealed! Most Americans aren't fools like some of the drones on this thread. The majority of Americans know full well that this outrageous law is going to bankrupt the nation. The sole reason that some idiots still support this shit law is because their guy passed it. They are morons, and so too is JC/FPM/Jon.

See JC I can cut and paste too!



Riffy

________________________

by Daniel J. Mitchell, Ph.D.

After President George W. Bush sent Congress an outline of his tax reform plan on February 8, some critics immediately began to attack it as a return to what they portray as the fiscally irresponsible policies of the Reagan Administration. According to these commentators, Congress should scale back--if not outright reject--President Bush's tax reform proposals because they are based on a period when the wealthy received excessive tax cuts and revenue was wasted on defense even though most Americans struggled in poverty. This is a revisionist view of recent history that ignores reality and denies the fact that President Reagan's sound policies and determination deserve much of the credit for the current economic picture. Congress should embrace President Bush's tax reform plan as a responsible return to the most successful economic policy of the 20th century.

President Ronald Reagan's record includes sweeping economic reforms and deep across-the-board tax cuts, market deregulation, and sound monetary policies to contain inflation. His policies resulted in the largest peacetime economic boom in American history and nearly 35 million more jobs. As the Joint Economic Committee reported in April 2000:2

In 1981, newly elected President Ronald Reagan refocused fiscal policy on the long run. He proposed, and Congress passed, sharp cuts in marginal tax rates. The cuts increased incentives to work and stimulated growth. These were funda-mental policy changes that provided the foundation for the Great Expansion that began in December 1982.

As Exhibit 1 shows, the economic record of the last 17 years is remarkable, particularly when viewed against the backdrop of the 1970s. The United States has experienced two of the longest and strongest expansions in our history back to back. They have been interrupted only by a shallow eight-month downturn in 1990-91.




http://www.heritage.org/static/reportimages/95D680E37D76F5A72E7656465722BEB6.gif...

Even with the growing surplus, however, a small but vocal faction in Congress opposes any policies that would allow taxpayers to keep more of their own money through real tax cuts and that generally would shift power from the government to the people. This attempt to rewrite history should not be surprising. Proponents of additional government spending try to make the Reagan boom appear to be a bust because they fear that Reagan's success will help President Bush build popular support for lower taxes, further deregulation, and reduced government spending. But their rhetoric is easily countered by the evidence.

History confirms the soundness of the Reagan, and now Bush, approach to economic policy. Under President Reagan, federal revenues increased even with tax cuts, federal spending did not decrease, the country experienced the longest period of sustained growth during peacetime in its history, and the rich paid more taxes proportionately than they had before the tax cuts were implemented.

HOW DID THE REAGAN TAX CUTS AFFECT THE U.S. TREASURY?
Many critics of reducing taxes claim that the Reagan tax cuts drained the U.S. Treasury. The reality is that federal revenues increased significantly between 1980 and 1990:

Total federal revenues doubled from just over $517 billion in 1980 to more than $1 trillion in 1990. In constant inflation-adjusted dollars, this was a 28 percent increase in revenue.3

As a percentage of the gross domestic product (GDP), federal revenues declined only slightly from 18.9 percent in 1980 to 18 percent in 1990.4

Revenues from individual income taxes climbed from just over $244 billion in 1980 to nearly $467 billion in 1990.5 In inflation-adjusted dollars, this amounts to a 25 percent increase.
HOW DID REAGAN'S POLICIES AFFECT FEDERAL SPENDING?
Although critics continue to focus on President Reagan's budget "cuts," federal spending rose significantly during the 1980s:

Federal spending more than doubled, growing from almost $591 billion in 1980 to $1.25 trillion in 1990. In constant inflation-adjusted dollars, this was an increase of 35.8 percent.6

As a percentage of GDP, federal expenditures grew slightly from 21.6 percent in 1980 to 21.8 percent in 1990.7

Contrary to popular myth, while inflation-adjusted defense spending increased by 50 percent between 1980 and 1989, it was curtailed when the Cold War ended and fell by 15 percent between 1989 and 1993. However, means-tested entitlements, which do not include Social Security or Medicare, rose by over 102 percent between 1980 and 1993, and they have continued climbing ever since.8

Total spending on all national security programs never equaled domestic spending, even when Social Security, Medicare, and net interest are excluded from domestic totals. In addition, national security spending fell during the Administration of the senior President Bush, while domestic spending increased in both mandatory and discretionary accounts.9 (See Chart 1.)

http://www.heritage.org/static/reportimages/AFDA6AF8A426D69C75605D63717EEC34.gif...

HOW DID REAGAN'S POLICIES AFFECT ECONOMIC GROWTH?
Despite the steep recession in 1982--brought on by tight money policies that were instituted to squeeze out the historic inflation level of the late 1970s--by 1983, the Reagan policies of reducing taxes, spending, regulation, and inflation were in place. The result was unprecedented economic growth:

This economic boom lasted 92 months without a recession, from November 1982 to July 1990, the longest period of sustained growth during peacetime and the second-longest period of sustained growth in U.S. history. The growth in the economy lasted more than twice as long as the average period of expansions since World War II.10

The American economy grew by about one-third in real inflation-adjusted terms. This was the equivalent of adding the entire economy of East and West Germany or two-thirds of Japan's economy to the U.S. economy.11

From 1950 to 1973, real economic growth in the U.S. economy averaged 3.6 percent per year. From 1973 to 1982, it averaged only 1.6 percent. The Reagan economic boom restored the more usual growth rate as the economy averaged 3.5 percent in real growth from the beginning of 1983 to the end of 1990.12
HOW DID REAGAN'S POLICIES AFFECT THE FEDERAL TAX BURDEN?
Perhaps the greatest myth concerning the 1980s is that Ronald Reagan slashed taxes so dramatically for the rich that they no longer have paid their fair share. The flaw in this myth is that it mixes tax rates with taxes actually paid and ignores the real trend of taxation:

In 1991, after the Reagan rate cuts were well in place, the top 1 percent of taxpayers in income paid 25 percent of all income taxes; the top 5 percent paid 43 percent; and the bottom 50 percent paid only 5 percent.13 To suggest that this distribution is unfair because it is too easy on upper-income groups is nothing less than absurd.

The proportion of total income taxes paid by the top 1 percent rose sharply under President Reagan, from 18 percent in 1981 to 28 percent in 1988.14

Average effective income tax rates were cut even more for lower-income groups than for higher-income groups. While the average effective tax rate for the top 1 percent fell by 30 percent between 1980 and 1992, and by 35 percent for the top 20 percent of income earners, it fell by 44 percent for the second-highest quintile, 46 percent for the middle quintile, 64 percent for the second-lowest quintile, and 263 percent for the bottom quintile.15

These reductions for the lowest-income groups were so large because President Reagan doubled the personal exemption, increased the standard deduction, and tripled the earned income tax credit (EITC), which provides net cash for single-parent families with children at the lowest income levels. These changes eliminated income tax liability altogether for over 4 million lower-income families.16
Critics often add in the Social Security payroll tax and argue that the total federal tax burden shifted more to lower-income groups and away from upper-income groups; but President Reagan's changes were in the income tax, not in the Social Security payroll tax. The payroll tax was imposed by proponents of big government over the past 50 years, and it is they, not Ronald Reagan, who should be held accountable for its distributional effects.

Nevertheless, even if one counts the Social Security payroll tax, the share of total federal taxes increased between 1980 and 1989 for the following groups:

For the top 1 percent of taxpayers, from 12.9 percent in 1980 to 15.4 percent in 1989;

For the top 5 percent of taxpayers, from 27.3 percent in 1980 to 30.4 percent in 1989; and

For the top 20 percent of taxpayers, from 56.1 percent in 1980 to 58.6 percent in 1989.
On the other hand, the share of total federal taxes, if one includes the Social Security payroll tax, declined for four groups:

For the second-highest 20 percent of taxpayers, from 22.2 percent in 1980 to 20.8 percent in 1989;

For the middle 20 percent of taxpayers, from 13.2 percent in 1980 to 12.5 percent in 1989;

For the second-lowest 20 percent of taxpayers, from 6.9 percent in 1980 to 6.4 percent in 1989; and

For the lowest 20 percent of taxpayers, from 1.6 percent in 1980 to 1.5 percent in 1989.17
CONCLUSION
No matter how advocates of big government try to rewrite history, Ronald Reagan's record of fiscal responsibility continues to stand as the most successful economic policy of the 20th century. His tax reforms triggered an economic expansion that continues to this day. His investments in national security ended the Cold War and made possible the subsequent defense spending reductions that are largely responsible for the current federal surpluses. His efforts to restrain the expansion of federal government helped to limit the growth of domestic spending.

If Reagan's critics had been willing to work with him to limit domestic spending even further and to control the growth of entitlements, the budget would have been balanced five to ten years sooner and without the massive tax increase imposed in 1993. Today, Members of Congress from across the political spectrum should stand on the evidence and defend the Reagan record.

To the extent that President Bush's proposals mirror those of Ronald Reagan, his plan should be a welcome strategy to lower the tax burden on Americans and to make the system more responsible. If the advocates of big government in Congress cooperate with President Bush rather than merely continuing to fund obsolete, wasteful, and redundant programs, there is no limit to the prosperity that Americans can generate.

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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #9620 - Mar 29th, 2010 at 7:17pm
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Yeah, you can cut and paste but that isn't something to brag about.

I read JC's post. I won't read your cut and paste because it's TMI.

Why don't you try cutting snippets to argue with. Then I would read them . . .

Until then, I'll have to assume that JC's and 2000's post were the final word on Reagan.
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #9621 - Mar 29th, 2010 at 7:26pm
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Quote:
Riffy rued:

And your stupid insipid ramblings about personality disorders is pure bullshit! I am watching my country's president and congress piss away trillions of dollars for the sole purpose of social engineering, and wealth redistribution. To watch a bunch of uneducated fools try and spin that as a good thing makes me want to puke!


and i watched my country piss away trillions of dollars and thousands of lives on a war to oust a dictator that was as connected to sept 11 as the WRAT drive time team.

bush and obama both blow. it's just that barry blows a little less. at least heath care reform won't kill anyone.

shit man...i should be president. a rickenbacker in every garage and a case of schlitz in every fridge. that would be my platform.
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« Last Edit: Mar 29th, 2010 at 7:28pm by Starbuck »  

"Why would any sane person want to leave Rocks Off? If you have an issue outside of Rocks Off, handle it. When you return it will be as if you never have left. Once you are here-it's expected you stay. Why waste long cultivated posting skills somewhere else? The outside world will not understand." -Nellie

“You assclowns are destroying this nation.” –Riffy

"You can lead a horse to the facts, but you can't make the horse understand the facts if he's a dumbfuck horse stuck on stupid." - Riffy

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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #9622 - Mar 29th, 2010 at 7:31pm
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"but I neither have the time nor inclination to do so."

Riffy


You really beleive that? You should read the post around what i quoted too. You sound like a first class elitist snob... So funny.

Marxism and socialism... This is what you said about Clinton... Funny, I don't know one person, not one person, who thinks being able to insure children until they are 26 or keeping Ins. Co's from denying benefits b/c of pre-existing conditions a bad thing. And all polls, point that now that healthcare has passed, and all the lies and dust have settled, people are not only happy, but impressed with the prez and congress... Too bad your side lost, b/c they bet November on this, and the Tumbling Dice came up snake eyes... Looks like your November gloating might be not so sweet... We shall see, which will be awesome, b/c historically speaking the other side usually makes out well, but now!!! Now that you guys lost , and your platform is too be sore losers and try to repeal, what the president and congress of dEms were elected to do... number one issue... you guys want to take it away... Sore effin' losers... You spent the first 3 years blaming everything wrong during Bush' first term on Clinton... and vbefore he elft office, you were blaming everything on Obama... and in-between you whack off to some image of Reagan and some long lost good old days... the highest tax increase, illegal alien amnesty granting and huge govt. guy... too funny... I know you love him, but he took my lunch money from me and built bombs... maybe your family was rich, sorry homey, I was poor and he shit on my Mom. and the whole moral majority folks did too, calling a hard working sigle mom a bad thing... Irony, how most of those, if not all those people had latent homosexuality, infidelity ect... we turned out ok, b/c we did have real marican values, we worked hard, and have no problem helping out other americans... we're such commies... ever think, maybe your just selfish? Acting like you have something to lose and protect, when the truth is, you're a white male in north america, and you have food, medicine and clean drinking water... you hit the sperm lottery and you still complain... how lame!
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #9623 - Mar 29th, 2010 at 7:32pm
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fuman wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 7:17pm:
Yeah, you can cut and paste but that isn't something to brag about.

I read JC's post. I won't read your cut and paste because it's TMI.

Why don't you try cutting snippets to argue with. Then I would read them . . .

Until then, I'll have to assume that JC's and 2000's post were the final word on Reagan.



Yeah that's probably a good idea funman. Stay the course! Never ever doubt your liberal sycophantic friends! I mean why should you concern yourself with facts that would destroy your argument, and prove that Ronald Reagan was a vastly superior president than the clown that you voted for.


Riffy
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...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&"When all government...in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided...” Thomas Jefferson&&&&"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases." — Thomas Jefferson&&&&&&&&We're not old men.We don't bother about petty morals--Keef&&&&Actually, it only takes one drink to get me loaded. Trouble is, I can't remember if it's the thirteenth or fourteenth. &&-- George Burns&&&&&&I ain't no leftist!-Bob Dylan&&&&"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce
 
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #9624 - Mar 29th, 2010 at 7:40pm
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Riffhard wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 7:32pm:
fuman wrote on Mar 29th, 2010 at 7:17pm:
Yeah, you can cut and paste but that isn't something to brag about.

I read JC's post. I won't read your cut and paste because it's TMI.

Why don't you try cutting snippets to argue with. Then I would read them . . .

Until then, I'll have to assume that JC's and 2000's post were the final word on Reagan.



Yeah that's probably a good idea funman. Stay the course! Never ever doubt your liberal sycophantic friends! I mean why should you concern yourself with facts that would destroy your argument, and prove that Ronald Reagan was a vastly superior president than the clown that you voted for.


Riffy



do you know what the defintion of "fact" is... look it up... the word itself, has to have true and real attached to is, since the word itself, doesn't mean true or actual.... and the reason is, dumbasses like you overuse the word, and think it makes them right, if they attach graphs and call people stupid for contradicting them or god forbid, having a different opinion.... this isn't about that anyway, this is just a man, you, who thinks they are a superior human, to those around him... and is angry and lives in justified anger... which is not only unhealthy, it is alos part of a personality disorder... and you are in big denial... your anger is like a drug... and you hold onto it, despite it not serving you. Has one thing you've done or said, ever made your life better? Has your anger and hatred made anyones life better? dude, you suck at trying to Mark Levin, at least he makes money... you're like a lame cover band that paid the club to play... You're the Voodoopugs of political posting.... haha...

...

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