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Pdog
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Re: Obama elected President
Reply #8900 - Feb 20th, 2010 at 7:03pm
Riffhard wrote on Feb 20 th, 2010 at 6:29pm: Pdog wrote on Feb 20 th, 2010 at 6:01pm: Riffhard wrote on Feb 20 th, 2010 at 5:13pm: Pdog wrote on Feb 20 th, 2010 at 1:22pm: Riffhard wrote on Feb 20 th, 2010 at 1:15pm: Great goolge work Pdog! Now can you articulate the brilliance of the 3/5ths of a man compromise? Here's a hint, the left's definition of this bit of history is always wrong. Always!
Riffy you ewant me to articualte it's brilliance? wtf/ does that mean... and you say that in the context, that the left version is always wrong? honestly dude, do you really think you're not authoritarian, and not only that, you create strawman, by your demands and dictates of context? you can continue to call me stupid, but only a fool tries to run a show, he isn't in... taxes and legislative powers... this is about delegates and taxes... slaves were to be counted as far as reppresentives went and taxs were colected... north and south compromised and it was written into the constitution, saying that slaves counted as 3/5th, as to what a white or free person would be as 1... i knew about this before i copied it off google... it's in books i've read. and formed my own opinion on what i read. why do i think that bothers you, and feel a damnd of who and whati read, like 30 years ago... Again, there you go with calling me an authoritarian, when the fact is that I am the one person in this debate between the two of us that wholeheartedly rejects all forms of authoritarian control from a large centralized government. I am anything, but an authoritarian! I, unlike so many of today's liberals, believe in the unwavering rights of the individual! The 3/5ths provision was brilliant! Why? Because back in the days when the Constitution was being ratified by the states the South was the economic powerhouse of our new nation. This was pre-industrial revolution, after all. The Founders, most notably John Adams and James Madison, were strong supporters of slaves rights. They did not believe in the practice of slavery at all, and wanted it abolished. However, they were men of their times, and as such had to devise a way of eventually making the practice of slavery untenable. Even Jefferson, a slave owner himself, knew that the very preamble of the Declaration of Independence was at odds with the notion of slavery. That is why the Founders, Jefferson among them, wrote provisions into the Constitution that would eventually kill the practice of it outright. By only counting slaves has 3/5ths of a man they limited the southern states the legislative power to overwhelm the congress with a pro slavery position. The Founders knew that the southern states were never going to grant slaves the right to vote, so Adams, Madison, etc. devised the 3/5ths provision in order to thwart the Southern states the representation of a large portion of their populations that would never be granted any representation to begin with. This is one of the reasons that the Civil War took so long to occur. Once the Industrial Revolution was in full swing the northern states were financially in the driver's seat, and they advanced the abolitionist movement which led to the Civil War. Which is not to say that the slavery issue was the sole reason for the Civil War. The main reason was the stop the dissolution of the country via the southern stated seceding from the Union. Lincoln played the slaves rights issue up as way of ginning up support for the war, and he did this by playing the hand that the Founding Fathers had dealt him. Brilliant, huh?! Absolutely! Do you think Obama is that smart? Fat chance! Pelosi? LOL! Reid? Please! Fast forward 200 plus years, and liberals today try and point to the 3/5ths provision as way of proving that he Founding Fathers were backwards in their way of dealing with the slavery issue, and frankly, were bigots. This, of course, is complete and utter bullshit, and is just one example of the lie of liberalism. This is the way that modern day liberals think. But these brilliant intellectual libs have removed the debate from the context of the time, and have perverted the actual intention of the 3/5ths provision as a way of trying to cast the Constitution as "living and breathing". It's just one more example of liberals rewriting history in order to advance the lie of liberalism. By inserting the 3/5ths provision the Founders were doing the only thing that they could given the economic realities and mores of their day. However, they were brilliant because they knew full well that they were only kicking the can down the road until such time as the rights of all would be forced on the young republic, by either law, or war. Then along came the founder of the Republican Party, Abraham Lincoln, and the rest, as they say, is history. Too bad there are not more people inside Washington that were as wise as the Founding Fathers. These clowns running the show now aren't even fit to polish the boots of these great men! Riffy PS-There is no strawman argument from me in this debate at all. I am merely shinning the light on the realities of our shared history. No strawman there my friend. b/c a bunch of guys with some good ideas accepted slavery, and treated those matters in a political way, to advance their other ideals, doesn't now or then make slavery ok, nor does it make the dehumization of slaves for a politcal purpose ok. It was a cancer, and in many ways must still be dealt with... a kind of making ammends as a country for our past sins... you don't like it b/c it insults many things you call iberal lies, which are not liberal lies, they are crimes against humanity. Slavery wasn't a neccesary evil, it was a crime against human beings. made legal by our constitution. abolished by a war, that like most wars, was more about economics than morals... like you said yourself, those morals come later to justify... sound familiar? the reason that it was so easy for the comprmoise, was that they people in question were already considered less than human, they were a commodity, with no rights or protection under the constitution and laws... Even most abolishnists, didn't want former slaves living with them... doesn't surprise me one bit, that the sons and daughters of slaves, are people that still seem to be the same people who suffer the most from the politcal ideals you seem to be for/ or more so against. So by that very strange measure what you're saying is that the Founding Fathers should have acknowledged slaves as a "full man" politically, and thus given the southern states the legislative sledgehammer to keep them in shackles permanently? Go read a little history, Pdog. Madison, and Adams, among many of the Founding Fathers, did not agree with slavery at all! It wasn't about political expediency my man! It was the reality of the 18th century world that they lived in! They had the foresight to write into the US Constitution provisions that would eventually lead to the abolishment of slavery on a national level! The 3/5ths of a man provision was designed to help the very slaves that the slave states treated as chattel!! And yes, liberalism is a lie! A complete sham that only intellectually lazy, or pompous people still cling to. Riffy there you go again, telling me I need to get information, in order to agree with you. Many of them did agree with slavery, it was a political compromise, and had nothing to do with the next 100 years when slavery would end, or even another hundred plus years as the sons of those slaves fought to gain equality... you somehow taking the good things we were to do as a nation, like defeat Germany and Japan, and somehow use that, as the freeing of people from tyranny, to justify what happened 150 years before that... your personal hatred of those you just mentioned, doesn't give you the right to be an all around mean and nasty person. It is just a symptom of an authoritarian personality, which is a personality defect. I'm passive agressive, we all have our personality traits, you don't have to be a dick to me... you also, as i've said, copletely lose me, and others when you go off caling people names and being hateful, and reenforce the prejudices towards the groups you are comlaining about... you personality can be an asset, if you actually use it in a postive way. you feel some desire to be right, and justified in all this anger... you should take your own advice and read up on this personality trait. you can be nicer and still strong, and win over some minds, instead of losing peoples hearts...
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Obama elected President (Read 616,299 times)
