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Question: What item is most likely found in the top drawer of Riffy's dresser?

naked pictures of Reagan    
  5 (20.0%)
Barry O voodoo doll    
  3 (12.0%)
Hoffa's body    
  2 (8.0%)
DVDs of "saved by the bell", season 3    
  1 (4.0%)
JC's boss's phone number    
  2 (8.0%)
bucket of chicken    
  5 (20.0%)
three sticks of "secret" deoderant, labels facing out    
  3 (12.0%)
"Eagles Greatest Hits" CD    
  4 (16.0%)




Total votes: 25
« Last Modified by: Starbuck on: Mar 3rd, 2010 at 5:01pm »

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Obama elected President (Read 616,519 times)
Jesus Christ
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #8800 - Feb 16th, 2010 at 2:37pm
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nankerphelge wrote on Feb 16th, 2010 at 1:46pm:
PS - the use of a military tribunal does not require an Declaration of War.


Here's an interesting article:


In the uproar caused by Atty. Gen. Eric H. Holder Jr.'s announcement that the alleged planners of the 9/11 attacks are to be tried in U.S. District Court in New York City, and the suspects in the attack on the U.S. destroyer Cole will go on trial before military tribunals at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, the public discourse has lost sight of the fundamental principles that guide the government when it makes such decisions. Unfortunately, the government has lost sight of the principles as well.


When President George W. Bush spoke to Congress shortly after 9/11, he did not ask for a declaration of war. Instead, Republican leaders offered and Congress enacted an Authorization for the Use of Military Force. The authorization was open-ended as to its targets and its conclusion, and basically told the president and his successors that they could pursue whomever they wanted, wherever their pursuits took them, so long as they believed that the people they pursued had engaged in acts of terrorism against the United States. Thus was born the "war" on terror.

Tellingly, and perhaps because we did not know at the time precisely who had planned the 9/11 attacks, Congress did not declare war. But the use of the word "war" persisted nonetheless. Even after he learned what countries had sponsored terrorism against us and our allies with governmental assistance, Bush did not seek a declaration of war against them. Since 9/11, American agents have captured and seized nearly 800 people from all over the globe in connection with the attacks, and now five have been charged with planning them.

Virtually all of those seized who survived interrogation have been held at Guantanamo Bay. Bush initially ordered that no law or treaty applied to these detainees and that no judge could hear their cases, and thus he could detain whoever he decided was too risky to release and whoever he was satisfied had participated in terrorist attacks against the U.S. He made these extra-constitutional claims based, he said, on the inherent powers of the commander in chief in wartime. But in the Supreme Court, he lost all five substantive challenges to his authority brought by detainees. As a result, some detainees had to be freed, and he and Congress eventually settled for trying some before military tribunals under the Uniform Code of Military Justice and subsequent legislation.

The casual use of the word "war" has lead to a mentality among the public and even in the government that the rules of war could apply to those held at Guantanamo. But the rules of war apply only to those involved in a lawfully declared war, and not to something that the government merely calls a war. Only Congress can declare war -- and thus trigger the panoply of the government's military powers that come with that declaration. Among those powers is the ability to use military tribunals to try those who have caused us harm by violating the rules of war.

The last time the government used a military tribunal in this country to try foreigners who violated the rules of war involved Nazi saboteurs during World War II. They came ashore in Amagansett, N.Y., and Ponte Vedra Beach, Fla., and donned civilian clothes, with plans to blow up strategic U.S. targets. They were tried before a military tribunal, and President Franklin D. Roosevelt based his order to do so on the existence of a formal congressional declaration of war against Germany.

In Ex Parte Quirin, the Supreme Court case that eventually upheld the military trial of these Germans -- after they had been tried and after six of the eight defendants had been executed -- the court declared that a formal declaration of war is the legal prerequisite to the government's use of the tools of war. The federal government adhered to this principle of law from World War II until Bush's understanding of the Constitution animated government policy.


The recent decision to try some of the Guantanamo detainees in federal District Court and some in military courts in Cuba is without a legal or constitutional bright line. All those still detained since 9/11 should be tried in federal courts because without a declaration of war, the Constitution demands no less.

That the target of the Cole attackers was military property manned by the Navy offers no constitutional reason for a military trial. In the 1960s, when Army draft offices and college ROTC facilities were attacked and bombed, those charged were quite properly tried in federal courts. And when Timothy McVeigh blew up a federal courthouse in Oklahoma City; and Omar Abdel Rahman attempted in 1993 to blow up the World Trade Center, which housed many federal offices; and when Zacarias Moussaoui was accused in the 9/11 attacks,all were tried in federal courts. The "American Taliban," John Walker Lindh, and the notorious would-be shoe bomber, Richard Reid, were tried in federal courts. Even the "Ft. Dix Six," five of whom were convicted in a plot to invade a U.S. Army post in New Jersey, were tried in federal court. And the sun still rose on the mornings after their convictions.

The framers of the Constitution feared letting the president alone decide with whom we are at war, and thus permitting him to trigger for his own purposes the military tools reserved for wartime. They also feared allowing the government to take life, liberty or property from any person without the intercession of a civilian jury to check the government's appetite and to compel transparency and fairness by forcing the government to prove its case to 12 ordinary citizens. Thus, the 5th Amendment to the Constitution, which requires due process, includes the essential component of a jury trial. And the 6th Amendment requires that when the government pursues any person in court, it must do so in the venue where the person is alleged to have caused harm.

Numerous Supreme Court cases have ruled that any person in conflict with the government can invoke due process -- be that person a citizen or an immigrant, someone born here, legally here, illegally here or whose suspect behavior did not even occur here.

Think about it: If the president could declare war on any person or entity or group simply by calling his pursuit of them a "war," there would be no limit to the government's ability to use the tools of war to achieve its ends. We have a "war" on drugs; can drug dealers be tried before military tribunals? We have a "war" on the Mafia; can mobsters be sent to Gitmo and tried there? The Obama administration has arguably declared "war" on Fox News. Are Glenn Beck, Bill O'Reilly and  their colleagues in danger of losing their constitutional rights to a government hostile to their opinions?

I trust not. And my trust is based on the oath that everyone who works in the government takes to uphold the Constitution. But I am not naive. Only unflinching public fidelity to the Constitution will preserve the freedoms of us all.




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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #8801 - Feb 16th, 2010 at 2:39pm
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nankerphelge wrote on Feb 16th, 2010 at 2:24pm:
"Can you break it down some more, talk to me like i'm Sarah Palin"

I am not even going to attempt to break that post down!

And I did not mean to come off as elitist as JC suggested - if you took it as such, I apologize.
I thought you raised some points and I was trying to respond to them.

And my reference to a Declaration of War was in response to JC's post, and the point is that Congress is the only branch of government that can actually issue a Declaration of War.  But because the President (executive branch) is the commander in chief, he/she can direct hostilities even is a "war" is never formally declared by Congress.  That is all I meant.



dude, you didn't/don't need to explain (break it down), I was taking the piss mostly... all bullshit aside, I apreciate you explaining stuff... not easy to always do around here...
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #8802 - Feb 16th, 2010 at 3:25pm
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"Here's an interesting article"

I thought you were anti-cut & paste?!

So how does that interesting article have any bearing on anything?
Do you vouch for its accuracy?
Who wrote it and when?

There was a great article in the Washington Post the other day about how liberals are so condescending.
Great read, but not germane to the present discussion...
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #8803 - Feb 16th, 2010 at 3:48pm
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nankerphelge wrote on Feb 16th, 2010 at 3:25pm:
"Here's an interesting article"

I thought you were anti-cut & paste?!

So how does that interesting article have any bearing on anything?
Do you vouch for its accuracy?
Who wrote it and when?

There was a great article in the Washington Post the other day about how liberals are so condescending.
Great read, but not germane to the present discussion...



We will never know, since the science on condescencion has been slanted, to make Sarah Palin look inteligent, when she gives her non-condescending speeches... Hows the lack of hope and not changing a thing, b/c your more rigid than a a viagra induced hard-on, thingy working for ya!
...
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #8804 - Feb 16th, 2010 at 3:50pm
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nankerphelge wrote on Feb 16th, 2010 at 3:25pm:
"Here's an interesting article"

I thought you were anti-cut & paste?!

So how does that interesting article have any bearing on anything?
Do you vouch for its accuracy?
Who wrote it and when?

There was a great article in the Washington Post the other day about how liberals are so condescending.
Great read, but not germane to the present discussion...


he's Auntie Pastey... it's a jewish messiah trans-gender thing, you won't understand! But being a Jew, he's fine with cutting!!!
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #8805 - Feb 16th, 2010 at 3:54pm
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I just had an image of jesus on the cross wearing pasteys on his nipples!!!

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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #8806 - Feb 16th, 2010 at 5:35pm
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Posted by: Jesus Christ
"Ah, thank you for your infinite patience in dealing with folks who aren't in the legal profession, or as accomplished in that profession as you, or whatever your obvious sense of superiority stems from."

Ah, nothing like the pot calling the kettle black........

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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #8807 - Feb 16th, 2010 at 6:36pm
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nankerphelge wrote on Feb 16th, 2010 at 6:27am:
"That, my friends, is why captured terrorists are best prosecuted in civilian courts.  That is why the Nervous Nellies (Thank you, English language!) who shudder at the idea of "giving terrorists a platform to spout their propaganda" at a trial are so wrong-headed."
 
The concern with trying these people as criminals rather than combatants is not so much because of the concern over giving them a platform.  The concern is that when you classify them as criminals rather than combatants, you introduce a host of rights that they would not normally get as a combatant.  

Suppose the military captures Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar, the No. 2 behind Afghan Taliban founder Mullah Mohammad Omar and a close associate of Osama bin Laden, in the southern Pakistani port city of Karachi (oh yeah, we just did) -- must the military now Mirandize him?  Tell him that he can remain silent until he gets a lawyer rather than interrogate him as you would any other captured combatant to see if he has any actionable intelligence?

And what do you do with the guys in Gitmo if now you suddenly clothe them with rights under our criminal justice system?  What happens when the servicemen or women that caught them are shown to have not followed the Constitutional procedures required for those tried in US courts rather than tribunals where the standards are different?  What happens when the Federal Rules of Evidence are applied to the proceedings?

Call me a nervous nellie, but those are legitimate concerns.

"Let's face it:  the yahoos who want to "Jack Bauer" the terrorists or send them to Gitmo hate freedom nearly as much as the terrorists do."

That is probably the most offensive thing you have ever said here.
Equating me or anyone else that justifiably believes that terrorists should be treated outside the US criminal justice system to those terrorists is disgusting.    
     

I'm sure you can see the distinction between Baradar--a foreign national captured on foreign soil with no direct link to crimes committed in the U.S.--and Mutallub, Reid et al.  Of course, I was also confident that you could see the point in Judge Young's comments, which you apparently missed.  His point was that our American system of justice is strong enough and effective enough to deal with the likes of Reid without giving up the procedural safeguards that protect all of our freedoms.

It's really that simple.  Either you're with Judge Young and believe in freedom--not just the pretty word "freedom," but the actual process, which includes fair trials for the accused and reactionary bugaboos like Miranda rights--or you're a crypto-fascist like Dick Cheney.  That's at the theoretical level.  At the practical level, the Cheneys, Bachmanns, Hoekstras and Peter Kings of the world simply have their facts wrong.  Our civilian justice system has been vastly more effective (between 195 and over 300 terrorist convictions, depending on whether you count just Muslims or other terrorists) than the military commissions (what, maybe 3 convictions?).  And Mirandizing does not seem to have thwarted Reid's conviction or prevented Xmas bomber from cooperating.  So, as usual, the reactionaries get it wrong on both facts and theory.

I must agree, though, that equating you freedom-hating reactionaries with the terrorists wasn't fair . . .to the terrorists!  After all, they don't even pretend to believe in freedom.  Whatever their vices, hypocrisy does not appear to be chief among them.  You reactionaries, on the other hand, whether it is bleating about freedom while assiduously seeking to restrict it, taking credit for federal stimulus projects after voting against them, or railing against gay marriage between blow jobs in airport men's rooms; you guys are the high priests of hypocrisy.

Brainy
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #8808 - Feb 16th, 2010 at 7:14pm
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nankerphelge wrote on Feb 16th, 2010 at 3:25pm:
"Here's an interesting article"

I thought you were anti-cut & paste?!

So how does that interesting article have any bearing on anything?
Do you vouch for its accuracy?
Who wrote it and when?

There was a great article in the Washington Post the other day about how liberals are so condescending.
Great read, but not germane to the present discussion...

The goddamn Germans got nothing to do with this!
...
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #8809 - Feb 16th, 2010 at 7:14pm
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nankerphelge wrote on Feb 16th, 2010 at 3:25pm:



So how does that interesting article have any bearing on anything?



Isn't it about exactly what's being discussed?


nankerphelge wrote on Feb 16th, 2010 at 3:25pm:
Do you vouch for its accuracy?


Howe could that possibly matter?



nankerphelge wrote on Feb 16th, 2010 at 3:25pm:
Who wrote it and when?



Andrew P. Napolitano, a former judge of the Superior Court of New Jersey, and the senior judicial analyst at the Fox News Channel. It was in the LA Times a day or two ago.
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #8810 - Feb 17th, 2010 at 1:27am
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And the good news keeps right on coming, ba-bye Byah. Just one more in the ever growing list of Dems that can see the writing on the wall. See ya Evan! Gee, we hardly even knew ya!


Of course when it rains it pours, and this week has been a bitch for the leftists and their agenda. Just when you thought that the stake couldn't be driven any further into the heart of the Great Global Warming Hoax, more and more scientists and skeptics are taking the IPCC, the IPCC chairman Rajendra Pachauri, Phil Jones, and the entire East Anglia University Climate Research Center to task.


Here's just a breif sampling of the latest news to yet further destroy the sham of our lifetime.....

World may not be warming, say scientists


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article7026317.ece

A pretty funny read here. The scientists claim that while the world may not be warming, that is exactly why they know that the world is in fact warming!! LOL!


Now IPCC hurricane data is questioned


http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02/15/hatton_on_hurricanes/


Oops! Looks like the East Anglia boys gotta another one wrong! Doh!


What to say to a global warming alarmist


http://www.ocregister.com/articles/-234092--.html


This is just a great read for obvious reasons. The title pretty much gives it away. Will anyone here from The Church of Man Made Global Warming bother to read it? Perhaps, and then they will try and dismiss it. Too bad that facts can't be so easily overlooked. Mark Landsbaum disects all of the Global Warming avocates aguments by going straight to the center of Climatgate itself. He shows how Phil Jones and Co. persued an agenda driven climate study that is, was, and always will be flawed beyond belief, and corrupt to boot.


Pdog, I dare you really read this article, and understand that every word of it is backed with data, and the facts are right there to back it up. Which is a damned sight more than your side can claim about man made global warming.



And as if all of this weren't great enough, we also get this ......

CNN SHOCK POLL: MAJORITY SAY OBAMA DOESN'T DESERVE 2ND TERM


http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/81213-52-say-obama-doesnt-deser...


Gee, anyone shocked?! Not me.


It just keeps getting better!




Riffy




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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #8811 - Feb 17th, 2010 at 7:01am
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Wait - Jesus is quoting a Fox news analyst on a legal issue and in the same breath says its accuracy doesn't matter!!

That IS funny!

That article does raise the point that the Executive should not be able to use the "tools of war" without Congressional approval as a matter of separation of powers.  But prior to the Supreme Court's Ex Parte Quirin decision, there were military commissions set up and used in a number of wars that were never accompanied by formal Declarations of War.  And Quirin was a case arising out of WWII which did have a formal Declaration of War, so the legal proposition that a formal Declaration is needed is questionable because it was not necessary to the decision - that is, dicta.

Regardless, I stand by my position that a formal Declaration of War is not necessary to having a military commission - an act of Congress is sufficient, and Congress arguably gave that authority in the authrization of force after 9/11 and if there were any doubt, in the Military Commissions Act of 2006.

As for BJ, I respect the judge's position and I do not disagree that our criminal justice system CAN handle terrorism cases.  I just don't think they SHOULD be.  By trying combatants using a military commission we do not give up "the procedural safeguards that protect all of our freedoms" - those are all fully intact for those that should be in the criminal justice system -- we do not owe those same safeguards to terrorists who do not follw any rules of law.  And the military system is also fully capable of handling these idiots without GIVING them those safeguards that they have not earned.  Plus, as I noted, when you begin treating terrorists as criminals, the military does have to alter its behavior in the field because the guy that catches the next terrorist will not know whether he will be in a federal court or military commission -- so what exactly is that military person supposed to do? 

Beyond that, your post is just plain insulting.
I sincerely hope we never meet.
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #8812 - Feb 17th, 2010 at 9:32am
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I dare you to read a dictionary Riffy, and look up authoritarian... and see how it relates to you and your words and actions here...
you should note riffy, that everything you've posted in this thread, is 99% of the time opposition, not ideas or solution. You didn't support McCain, you opposed Obama. You really do belong to the Opposition party, the party of No. No solution, No ideas, Nowhere to go... It's not a matter of disagreeing with things I see Democrats doing, it's just when I look to your party, there's no lkaternative, just a constant bashing... people need solution. I'm glad these dems are bailing too... Serves them right. We went off the road a long time ago, you just started bitching way later than most. There's a solution? What is it... you going to give me soundbites? you going to tell me, like the idiots in Haiwaii did, that state run healthcare can't work, when it does there? You're like the farmer, coming up from the basement after a tornado has ravaged the land, and all you can say is, gee ain't it grand the wind stopped blowing... that is the moment when the leaders are defined and the weak doomed... and everything you preach, goes to social darwinism... and if that is the case, then you bitch about the powers Obama abuses, yet you allowed Bush to have them without a fight... you want something done, wel lstep up to the palte and do something... b/c all you do is complain. and you're not even funny. Instead you insult, you don't even attempt to be funny... life is too short to be an angry miserable yelling person all the time...
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #8813 - Feb 17th, 2010 at 11:16am
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no one talks about the smack down.
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So, what's your point?

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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #8814 - Feb 17th, 2010 at 11:20am
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Pdog wrote on Feb 16th, 2010 at 9:13am:
Nellcote wrote on Feb 15th, 2010 at 9:40pm:
Pdog wrote on Feb 15th, 2010 at 8:35pm:
Nellcote wrote on Feb 15th, 2010 at 7:01pm:
Joe Biden on Face The Nation yesterday.......the man who is a heartbeat away from the Presidency...

Responding on CBS’s “Face the Nation” to Brown’s comments that the United States should be spending money catching terrorists, not spending money to give them a lawyer, Biden said, “I don’t know whether the new senator from Massachusetts understands: When you get tried in a military tribunal, you get a lawyer too.”

Scott Brown's response?  Dope slap at Clueless Joe...

“He’s trying to give me a lesson on military law, and I didn’t think it was appropriate,” Brown told POLITICO. “And I thought he was off base when it comes to explaining to the American people that somehow I need a lesson on whether people get attorneys — of course they get attorneys. There’s a difference as to what type of attorney they’re going to get and when they’re going to get that attorney, and how are they treated, and what rights do they in fact get.”

Brown said he is particularly incensed by Biden’s remarks because he’s served in the Massachusetts Army National Guard for more than 30 years and is currently the Guard’s top defense attorney in New England.

“I know the military rules and regulations and procedures from A to Z,” Brown said.

And you people were worried about Sarah Palin?
This presidency is scarier than the Carter administration!



arresting this guy like the shoe bomber was, was wrong because???

It's about the statement, not about the incident.


Ok, so you're upset over what he said? There's no action or policy you're complaining about, just a perosonality, not an actual principle...

He swore in Scott Brown in two weeks ago.  He knew he was a trial lawyer in the National Guard, in fact one of the highest ranking trial lawyers.  Biden is clueless & an embarrassment.

Towards the 50 hours of interrogation, it was not enough time for the shoe bomber & it was not enough time for the underwear bomber.  These people are trained to kill us.  They are not in their mother's basement trying out some new trick.  500 hours is not enough.  Interrogate them with Yoko Ono singing in the background while watching water drip.  Too bad about the Geneva convention or the get a lifers who want to provide them rights.  They want to kill us.  They have no rights.  I think about the people who perished on 9/11 & decided these people who want to kill us abandoned their rights when they were caught.
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #8815 - Feb 17th, 2010 at 11:49am
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Did anyone catch "The Warning" last night on PBS?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/warning/view/

It's an hour long, and shocking.
Worth a view when you have time.
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #8816 - Feb 17th, 2010 at 11:50am
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fuman wrote on Feb 17th, 2010 at 11:49am:
Did anyone catch "The Warning" last night on PBS?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/warning/view/

It's an hour long, and shocking.
Worth a view when you have time.

can you give me the gist of it, I'm a very busy man
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #8817 - Feb 17th, 2010 at 11:51am
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nankerphelge wrote on Feb 17th, 2010 at 7:01am:
Wait - Jesus is quoting a Fox news analyst on a legal issue and in the same breath says its accuracy doesn't matter!!

That IS funny!

 


Actually it wasn't the same breath. I drew numerous breaths throughout that process.  And what you asked was -specifically - whether or not _I_ vouched for its accuracy. What my response was asking was howe MY opinion of it could possibly matter to YOU.

I thought you lawyer types paid more attention to words and stuff. The specific words, as well as the order they're written in, have meanings and shades of meaning which can have an impact on the overall statement.

I do give you points for being cautious in your dismissal of the post in question. I purposely left the author's name off, hoping that someone would accuse me of quoting some leftie on this issue. Now that it's been revealed as the work of Fox News' senior judicial analyst, I hope you will agree that it is both fair AND balanced.

As for liberals being condescending - have you ever read ANY of Mr. Riffhard's posts? 
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #8818 - Feb 17th, 2010 at 12:19pm
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Some Guy wrote on Feb 17th, 2010 at 11:50am:
fuman wrote on Feb 17th, 2010 at 11:49am:
Did anyone catch "The Warning" last night on PBS?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/warning/view/

It's an hour long, and shocking.
Worth a view when you have time.

can you give me the gist of it, I'm a very busy man



It's a documentary about a lawyer's (Brooksley Born) attempt to alert Congress to the dangerous derivatives market in the late 1990's. She was outnumbered in her appearance in front of a Congressional panel, and lost the battle.

"I walk into Brooksley's office one day; the blood has drained from her face," says Michael Greenberger, a former top official at the CFTC who worked closely with Born. "She's hanging up the telephone; she says to me: 'That was [former Assistant Treasury Secretary] Larry Summers. He says, "You're going to cause the worst financial crisis since the end of World War II."... [He says he has] 13 bankers in his office who informed him of this. Stop, right away. No more.'"

"Alan Greenspan was the maestro, and both parties in Washington were united in a belief that the markets would take care of themselves." Greenspan later testified to Congress that he was WRONG. Oops, sorry . . .

Many of the same men who shut down Born are in key positions in the Obama administration, The Warning reveals the complicated politics that led to this crisis and what it may say about current attempts to prevent the next one.
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #8819 - Feb 17th, 2010 at 1:56pm
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nankerphelge wrote on Feb 17th, 2010 at 7:01am:
As for BJ, I respect the judge's position and I do not disagree that our criminal justice system CAN handle terrorism cases.  I just don't think they SHOULD be.  By trying combatants using a military commission we do not give up "the procedural safeguards that protect all of our freedoms" - those are all fully intact for those that should be in the criminal justice system -- we do not owe those same safeguards to terrorists who do not follw any rules of law.  And the military system is also fully capable of handling these idiots without GIVING them those safeguards that they have not earned.  Plus, as I noted, when you begin treating terrorists as criminals, the military does have to alter its behavior in the field because the guy that catches the next terrorist will not know whether he will be in a federal court or military commission -- so what exactly is that military person supposed to do?  

Beyond that, your post is just plain insulting.
I sincerely hope we never meet.
 

I previously gave you credit for understanding the distinction between a person arrested in the U.S. for crimes committed in the U.S. and "a foreign national captured on foreign soil with no direct link to crimes committed in the U.S."  I hereby revoke that credit.  You evidently do not see the distinction.

Your concern about decisions of the military in the field is also misplaced.  As I understand it, federal courts have a 90% conviction rate in terrorist cases.  This includes cases such as Padilla and Moussouai (20th hijacker) which were moved from military commissions to federal court.

Finally, your idea about who is "owed" a fair trial reveals a startling ignorance about the basis of our justice system.  We do not give fair trials to criminals because they have "earned" that right, nor do we deny fair trials to those "who do not follw (sic) any rules of law."  We grant fair trials to all accused persons who fall under the jurisdiction of our courts.  We grant fair trials because of who we are, not because of who the defendant may or may not be.  Your lack of knowledge about  elementary civics, or your lack of allegiance to the values embodied in our justice system, is what I'm talking about when I say that you hate freedom.

Brainy
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #8820 - Feb 17th, 2010 at 3:26pm
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Pdog wrote on Feb 17th, 2010 at 9:32am:
I dare you to read a dictionary Riffy, and look up authoritarian... and see how it relates to you and your words and actions here...
you should note riffy, that everything you've posted in this thread, is 99% of the time opposition, not ideas or solution. You didn't support McCain, you opposed Obama. You really do belong to the Opposition party, the party of No. No solution, No ideas, Nowhere to go... It's not a matter of disagreeing with things I see Democrats doing, it's just when I look to your party, there's no lkaternative, just a constant bashing... people need solution. I'm glad these dems are bailing too... Serves them right. We went off the road a long time ago, you just started bitching way later than most. There's a solution? What is it... you going to give me soundbites? you going to tell me, like the idiots in Haiwaii did, that state run healthcare can't work, when it does there? You're like the farmer, coming up from the basement after a tornado has ravaged the land, and all you can say is, gee ain't it grand the wind stopped blowing... that is the moment when the leaders are defined and the weak doomed... and everything you preach, goes to social darwinism... and if that is the case, then you bitch about the powers Obama abuses, yet you allowed Bush to have them without a fight... you want something done, wel lstep up to the palte and do something... b/c all you do is complain. and you're not even funny. Instead you insult, you don't even attempt to be funny... life is too short to be an angry miserable yelling person all the time...




LOL! Authoritarian?!?! Are you kidding me?!?!?! I am the exact opposite of authoritarian!! It's you who believe that government should have the power to tell people what kind of insurance that they must carry! It's you that grant an authoritarian government the power to dictate what kind of light bulbs we can use, toilets we can flush, money we can make. You are the one that has bought into the whole Obama as supreme leader horse shit! I am anything but authoritarian! I believe in the worth of the individual! I believe in personal liberty. I believe that less government is better government. In short, I believe in the exact the same principals that Jefferson, Adams, and Washington believed in!

I offer no solutions?!?! Really? Well what part of "throw this pathetic excuse of a president out on his ass!", don't you understand?!?!?! That would be a step in the right direction! I know it pains you to hear this but, here goes,-Obama sucks with teeth! He is under qualified, and he believes in wealth redistribution and massive government control. In other words, he's an ideologue and far left authoritarian!!


I offer plenty of solutions! You just don't want to hear them. Start by giving the people back more of their money! That means that the super rich get to keep more than 40 cents for every dollar they earn! The super rich have, in most cases, earned their own money. What the hell gives you, or Obama, the right to confiscate it because you feel that they have too much?!?! That's what we call stealing down south! Here's another idea, tax cuts "across the board", and make them permanent! Then grow more jobs by opening up the power of free market enterprise by offering tax incentives to create and expand the job market. Stop the idiocy, and massive governmental power grab as it relates to our health care, and for god's sake, forget about taxing people's Co2 credits!!

I didn't support McCain?! You're right in one sense. I knew that he was a horrible candidate. However, once the choice between McCain and Barry became apparent I made every effort in the world to warn the drones that Obama would be an unmitigated disaster. I was right.


It's funny, you say that I offer no solutions. But the truth is that your answer to everything is more government! That's your answer for all of it. Global warming? Let the government destroy the oil industry, the coal industry, and every god damned industry that relies on energy! In other words, every industry in existence. You offer up authoritarian answers. Health care? More government control! Force people to drop their plans in order to adopt a government single payer plan. Oh, and by the way, anyone on this thread stupid enough to believe that the government wants you to have the ability to keep the plan that you already have? Well, that person has shit for brains!! The government wants to dictate your health coverage, and yes, Sarah Palin was right, there will be "death panels"!! There will, in fact, be government agencies that determine which patient is too "cost prohibitive" to receive treatment. There will some government bureaucrat that will decide what the "cost to benefit ratio" is the patient. The government will determine who gets the medical treatment, and for how long. It's done in every country that has socialised medicine! In the UK they just stopped govenment funding for a breast cancer drug becuase they determined that it was too cost prohibitive. Hundreds of thousands of women in the UK will be affected over the years, but the government will only know these women as patient numbers so no big deal, right?


I'm not authoritarian! Far from it! I'm just trying to shake some fucking sense into you, and make you aware of the fact that the government in control right now is very authoritarian indeed! They don't believe in the power, or the rights, of the individual! They believe in a top down authoritarian government run by a few elites that bullshit you into giving up more and more of your personal liberty. Some people are just too god damned stupid to see it! I mean damn son! Take a look at Cap and Trade. Are you really so sold on the crap science of man made global warming that you would support a bill that will tax the average American home anywhere from $2,700-$4,000 per year?!?! Are you really that cold hearted? What do you think that lower income families are going to do when that tax hits them? I guess they will just stop heating their homes? How many middle income families will now be forced to live below their income level just so they can pay these insane punitive taxes?!?! Have you even thought of that? No! Of course not! You just blindly follow the direction of the leftards that are the true authoritarians!!


You are a drone. You refuse to see what is blatantly happening right before your eyes, and then you lamely call me an authoritarian when you haven't even noticed the massive expansion of government under the worst president in US history!! It boggles the mind. I am anything but pro authority! I am pro individual! Pro freedom! Pro liberty! You might want to try thinking differently about the subject. Not that you will. You'll no doubt, slam me for yelling, or some other such lameness. Wake up, Pdog!!! I am on your side!!! And you don't even realize it!!!!




Riffy
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...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&"When all government...in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided...” Thomas Jefferson&&&&"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases." — Thomas Jefferson&&&&&&&&We're not old men.We don't bother about petty morals--Keef&&&&Actually, it only takes one drink to get me loaded. Trouble is, I can't remember if it's the thirteenth or fourteenth. &&-- George Burns&&&&&&I ain't no leftist!-Bob Dylan&&&&"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce
 
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #8821 - Feb 17th, 2010 at 3:50pm
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Riffhard wrote on Feb 17th, 2010 at 3:26pm:
Pdog wrote on Feb 17th, 2010 at 9:32am:
I dare you to read a dictionary Riffy, and look up authoritarian... and see how it relates to you and your words and actions here...
you should note riffy, that everything you've posted in this thread, is 99% of the time opposition, not ideas or solution. You didn't support McCain, you opposed Obama. You really do belong to the Opposition party, the party of No. No solution, No ideas, Nowhere to go... It's not a matter of disagreeing with things I see Democrats doing, it's just when I look to your party, there's no lkaternative, just a constant bashing... people need solution. I'm glad these dems are bailing too... Serves them right. We went off the road a long time ago, you just started bitching way later than most. There's a solution? What is it... you going to give me soundbites? you going to tell me, like the idiots in Haiwaii did, that state run healthcare can't work, when it does there? You're like the farmer, coming up from the basement after a tornado has ravaged the land, and all you can say is, gee ain't it grand the wind stopped blowing... that is the moment when the leaders are defined and the weak doomed... and everything you preach, goes to social darwinism... and if that is the case, then you bitch about the powers Obama abuses, yet you allowed Bush to have them without a fight... you want something done, wel lstep up to the palte and do something... b/c all you do is complain. and you're not even funny. Instead you insult, you don't even attempt to be funny... life is too short to be an angry miserable yelling person all the time...




LOL! Authoritarian?!?! Are you kidding me?!?!?! I am the exact opposite of authoritarian!! It's you who believe that government should have the power to tell people what kind of insurance that they must carry! It's you that grant an authoritarian government the power to dictate what kind of light bulbs we can use, toilets we can flush, money we can make. You are the one that has bought into the whole Obama as supreme leader horse shit! I am anything but authoritarian! I believe in the worth of the individual! I believe in personal liberty. I believe that less government is better government. In short, I believe in the exact the same principals that Jefferson, Adams, and Washington believed in!

I offer no solutions?!?! Really? Well what part of "throw this pathetic excuse of a president out on his ass!", don't you understand?!?!?! That would be a step in the right direction! I know it pains you to hear this but, here goes,-Obama sucks with teeth! He is under qualified, and he believes in wealth redistribution and massive government control. In other words, he's an ideologue and far left authoritarian!!


I offer plenty of solutions! You just don't want to hear them. Start by giving the people back more of their money! That means that the super rich get to keep more than 40 cents for every dollar they earn! The super rich have, in most cases, earned their own money. What the hell gives you, or Obama, the right to confiscate it because you feel that they have too much?!?! That's what we call stealing down south! Here's another idea, tax cuts "across the board", and make them permanent! Then grow more jobs by opening up the power of free market enterprise by offering tax incentives to create and expand the job market. Stop the idiocy, and massive governmental power grab as it relates to our health care, and for god's sake, forget about taxing people's Co2 credits!!

I didn't support McCain?! You're right in one sense. I knew that he was a horrible candidate. However, once the choice between McCain and Barry became apparent I made every effort in the world to warn the drones that Obama would be an unmitigated disaster. I was right.


It's funny, you say that I offer no solutions. But the truth is that your answer to everything is more government! That's your answer for all of it. Global warming? Let the government destroy the oil industry, the coal industry, and every god damned industry that relies on energy! In other words, every industry in existence. You offer up authoritarian answers. Health care? More government control! Force people to drop their plans in order to adopt a government single payer plan. Oh, and by the way, anyone on this thread stupid enough to believe that the government wants you to have the ability to keep the plan that you already have? Well, that person has shit for brains!! The government wants to dictate your health coverage, and yes, Sarah Palin was right, there will be "death panels"!! There will, in fact, be government agencies that determine which patient is too "cost prohibitive" to receive treatment. There will some government bureaucrat that will decide what the "cost to benefit ratio" is the patient. The government will determine who gets the medical treatment, and for how long. It's done in every country that has socialised medicine! In the UK they just stopped govenment funding for a breast cancer drug becuase they determined that it was too cost prohibitive. Hundreds of thousands of women in the UK will be affected over the years, but the government will only know these women as patient numbers so no big deal, right?


I'm not authoritarian! Far from it! I'm just trying to shake some fucking sense into you, and make you aware of the fact that the government in control right now is very authoritarian indeed! They don't believe in the power, or the rights, of the individual! They believe in a top down authoritarian government run by a few elites that bullshit you into giving up more and more of your personal liberty. Some people are just too god damned stupid to see it! I mean damn son! Take a look at Cap and Trade. Are you really so sold on the crap science of man made global warming that you would support a bill that will tax the average American home anywhere from $2,700-$4,000 per year?!?! Are you really that cold hearted? What do you think that lower income families are going to do when that tax hits them? I guess they will just stop heating their homes? How many middle income families will now be forced to live below their income level just so they can pay these insane punitive taxes?!?! Have you even thought of that? No! Of course not! You just blindly follow the direction of the leftards that are the true authoritarians!!


You are a drone. You refuse to see what is blatantly happening right before your eyes, and then you lamely call me an authoritarian when you haven't even noticed the massive expansion of government under the worst president in US history!! It boggles the mind. I am anything but pro authority! I am pro individual! Pro freedom! Pro liberty! You might want to try thinking differently about the subject. Not that you will. You'll no doubt, slam me for yelling, or some other such lameness. Wake up, Pdog!!! I am on your side!!! And you don't even realize it!!!!




Riffy



Ok so you're not an authoritarian, I bet you roll on Shabbos too, huh Blowhard

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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #8822 - Feb 17th, 2010 at 3:56pm
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I'd have a beer with any of ya's.
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #8823 - Feb 17th, 2010 at 4:15pm
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you have no idea how you come across, and what it is you say, and the way you say it...

Riffhard wrote on Feb 17th, 2010 at 3:26pm:
I am the exact opposite of authoritarian!!

You just don't want to hear them.

don't you understand?!?!?!

I was right.

I'm not authoritarian! Far from it! I'm just trying to shake some fucking sense into you, and make you aware

You refuse to see what is blatantly happening right before your eyes

You might want to try thinking differently about the subject. Not that you will.

Riffy

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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #8824 - Feb 17th, 2010 at 5:35pm
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this was is why fox, msnbc, cnn all suck... jon stewart does more news reporting on a faux show, then the real ones...

watch, if you date, my republican drones!!!

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-february-11-2010/the-apparent-trap
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