Riffhard wrote on Oct 29^th, 2008 at 8:31am:


Holy shit, did you really just go grammar police?!?!?  Do you really want someone to go back through your posts and point out your typos, mispellings, and malapropisms?

what messenger was attacked, was it the psycho woman in western PA? She's a Republican, just one person... aligned with who? Dismissed by all! Get over yourself and the extreme hate that is created by the constantly running attack machine. That's why you have "hate speech" Lies" and "extremist shouting" at an around the Republican party. It is ignorant to think that saying, Obama hates Israel, isn't going to create extreme reactions in listeners, who don't have any information besides the soundbite. Bringing it here, is pissing in the wind, and what is going on around the McCain campaign is internal hostility, confusion and a losing campaign being desperate. It is reflected 100% by the attacks here on Obama. If you think I am wrong, and you think you need to read something, go back and lok at how much McCain and his campaign are talked about by the people you think are supporting him. Is there even a close to proportiante amount of vote for my guy stuff... Hell no. That says it all. If your idea of getting McCain elected is attacking Obama and putting down people who disagree with "YOU". Hear it again, " people who diagree with YOU!" Not agree with Obama... If that is how you think you make your case, then I got news for you, so please read this, AGAIN, and again, you stupid fucking idiot... Read this, why didn't you read this, it is a fact, you are posting anti-Obama extreme rhetoric, based on conjecture and innuendos and not supporting John McCain, who you didn't want during the primiaries!!!
It is almost time, for your denial to break, and if it doesn', you will be forced to denounce your country, and be UnAmerican. If you can't support your country, 100%, then fuck off. All the horseshit americanism you post about is bullshit. Patriots don't love thier country when they get their way with politics and elections, they love it most when they don't. Because America gives everyone a voice and the rights we live with... 8 ys of Bush, and you act like the thing you complained about for the past 8 yrs. Sad, you became what you despised. The hate macine of blame and deflect, has broke down, it stopped working. People just got tired of it. Those who are still in it, are just stuck on repeat. Push eject, pop out the tape, and try something different, for your own good and this forum.
Did you read that? Stupid!

< ----- This morning , whilst shaving , I got to thinkin' (  .....  not necessarily such a GOOD thing )


The Office of the Presidency tends to age its occupant . If Barak Obama becomes President ,
does that mean in eight years he will look like Morgan Freeman ?!


{ CA - FRIGGIN - RACK !!!! }


oh , Lil' Buddy ( Lil' Fijikins   ...... YOU BAD !!!!! )



I remain ...... FOREVER  ...... your ' kins !

OK, I shall address your point.  Look how you dismissed the outside perspective of someone like Doxa out of hand because you did not like what it had to say about you as the crusading defender of everything that is right.   You say you are the only one who can think for himself, oh, you and the people who agree with you, and think that that and your inherent rightness of perspective gives you carte blanche to behave any way you want.   Doxa does not have a horse in this race, made some observations, and you still dismiss that post by instantly turning it into an example of how Obama and the media are unfair to you and your perspective.

Dude, as a messenger, you do your message disservice.  You turn people against your thoughts with your hostility, with your anger, with your repetitious phrases, with your refusal to acknowledge anyone else's points, with your blind acceptance of anything that comes down the pike that supports your viewpoint, with your dismissal of sources as biased while posting sources that are biased, I could go on but I won't because I thought I was done doing anything other than one linering in this thread because anything else was a waste of my time.

The crazy motherfucker ranting on the street corner about the end of the world might have good points but if he has drool coming out the side of his mouth and is holding up a bedsheet with an image of Mary Magdalene's face that was formed when he pissed himself that night, then no one is really gonna take him seriously.

We can all look at ourselves, understand how we are flawed, and try to change ourselves.  This is the area from which effective change truly comes.   Sometimes an outside perspective helps.

Pdog wrote on Oct 29^th, 2008 at 8:59am:


That's what I'm was tring to say... I didn't piss my bed in a Holiday Inn Express last night! Being as reactionary as Riffy, i hope he got my Keith to Ronnie comparison.

Like this one, P!! 

"The hate machine of blame and deflect, has broke down, it stopped working. People just got tired of it. Those who are still in it, are just stuck on repeat. Push eject, pop out the tape, and try something different, for your own good and this forum. Did you read that?"


Time for a Beatles song...  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJqNxKdgyqM

Nellcote wrote on Oct 29^th, 2008 at 7:34am:

Nellie!  Please tell me you are the original on this and its not something John McCain's campaign is pushing.  I just can't see that theory getting any traction - too much remoticalism.  Even after I found out Condoleeza was born in Tripoli.

Nellcote wrote on Oct 29^th, 2008 at 9:36am:


It is a post 9/11 world for everyone. Yes, even the liberals and Clintons. While Obama has an idealogical view on diplomacy, I have no doubt, homeboy could reach deep down and like LLcoolJ said ... Obama Gonna Knock You Out! He is smart enough, too know he isn't smart enough on everything, and will surround himslef with great people, not just dems or libs either... something not seen the past 8 yrs, and IMO, the big reason why Osama is still alive and many miltary decisions for success came late or like in Afghanistan/ Pakistan stalled and didn't happen.

Nellcote wrote on Oct 29^th, 2008 at 9:36am:

I called WEEI and tried to trash George Walker Bush III, but they wouldn't let me.  Fuckers.  If I wasn't so busy, I'd keep speed dialing those bastards until they put me on air.

sirmoonie wrote on Oct 29^th, 2008 at 10:30am:


If that Fairness Doctrine was in place you'd be bashing the living shit out of him in front of the world as we speak, Smoon!  And we'd all be linkin', drinkin', and free thinkin'!

SweetVirginia wrote on Oct 29^th, 2008 at 10:20am:


Wonderful post, my fellow NY'er!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My feelings EXACTLY!!!!

LJ.

Johann Hari: The Republicans' dirty secret... torture

Allen West oversaw the brutal treatment of an Iraqi. Now he is running for Congress

Tuesday, 28 October 2008
Independent.co.uk

So what will be left of the Republican Party after next week's US election? The answer lies in the sands of Florida, where the sunshine-state Republicans have nominated an unrepentant torturer as their candidate for Congress. They view his readiness to torture an innocent Iraqi not as a source of shame, but as his prime qualification for office. This is American conservatism in the dying days of Bush – and it points out the direction that Sarah Palin would like to take it in 2012.

In August 2003, Colonel Allen West – commanding a US unit in Baghdad – heard a rumour that one of the Iraqi policeman he was working with was a secret insurgent. He ordered his officers to go and seize Yehiya Hamoodi, a thin, bespectacled 31-year-old, from his home. They dragged him into a Humvee, beat him, and then handcuffed, shackled and blindfolded him. In a dank interrogation room, they told him he had better start talking.

Perplexed and terrified, Yehiya explained he didn't know what they were talking about: why was he here? So West was called in. He told Yehiya he was going to be killed. While his men beat him again, he explained he had one last chance to save his life – by talking.

Yehiya protested: I am innocent! What are you talking about? So West took him outside, had him pinned down, and began to shoot. First he fired into the air. Then he ordered his men to ram Yehiya's head into a barrel used for cleaning weapons – and fired right next to his head. Then he began to count down from five. Finally Yehiya began to scream out names – any name he could think of, just to make it stop.

The men he named were seized and roughed up in turn. No evidence was found of any plot, and after another 45 days of terror, Yehiya was released. Today, he is severely traumatised, and collapses when he sees a Humvee approaching. The story only came to light after one of West's soldiers began to protest against these practices, and the Pentagon launched an investigation. At a pre-trial hearing, West was fined $5,000, and now concedes grudgingly: "It's possible I was wrong about Mr Hamoodi." But he says he would do it again, and again, and again.

West has even taken to joking about it, gaining applause for telling Republican audiences: "It wasn't torture. Seeing Rosie O'Donnell naked would be torture." But the 1994 Convention Against Torture, to which the US is a signatory, is explicit: "Threat of imminent death" is the third form of torture it outlaws. There are reams of studies showing it can traumatise a person for life.

Yet the Republican Party has rallied to the defence of this torturer, and of torture in general. The Bush administration has ordered the simulated drowning of "high-value" suspects, and set up secret black ops sites across the world where it is practiced. After Afghan detainees were hanged from the ceiling and beaten to death, the officers responsible were merely given a "letter of reprimand".

West's "toughness" is fawned over; one leading conservative magazine has even named him its Man of the Year. And Sarah Palin, the Party's darling, mocks Barack Obama's opposition to torture. She complains: "Al-Qaida terrorists still plot to inflict catastrophic harm on America [and] he's worried that someone won't read them their rights." Palin is fond of saying that she "won't blink when it comes to terror", but if you don't blink, your corneas dry out, and you go blind.

At first, the rise of John McCain looked like a repudiation of torture. McCain was tortured by the Viet Cong for three years, and the beatings were so vicious that even today he can't raise his arms to brush his own hair. For a time, he was a loud, proud opponent of torture – but then he caved. In February 2008, he voted to allow the CIA to be excluded from the ban on torture – when he knows the CIA who are the prime American torturers today.

Then, when the Supreme Court ruled that Guantanamo detainees have basic habeas corpus rights, McCain called it "one of the worst decisions in the history of the country." If McCain will compromise on this, he will compromise on anything. He has tried to flip-flop back, saying he would ban torture after all, but if he tried now, he would face mass rebellion from his own party and Vice-President. It is unthinkable he would permit war crimes tribunals of the Party colleagues who ordered this torture.

The advocates of torture love to wheel out the ticking bomb scenario served up every week on 24. But think about what it requires. You have to (a) be certain you have captured a bomber in the very brief window between him planting a bomb and it blowing up, yet (b) have no idea where the bomb is. This has never happened, anywhere in the world, ever.

No: what happens in reality is Yehiya Hamoodi. You get a man you kinda-sorta suspect; you torture him; and you get junk intelligence leading you up wrong paths. What would you confess to if I put a gun to your head and started counting down from five?

Once you start to torture it doesn't just stay in the neat mind-experiments favoured by philosophers. After the Israeli supreme court approved torture in very limited circumstances, soldiers were soon torturing two thirds of the Palestinians they held captive. Professor David Luban explains: "Escalation is the rule, not the aberration. Abu Ghraib is the fully predictable image of what a torture culture looks like."

There are no recorded instances of getting useable intelligence from torture – but even if in some freak instance after you have tortured a thousand Yahiyas you finally did, would it outweigh the damage of handing al Qaeda a thousand new recruits, vindicating Bin Laden's hate-talk and breaching the most basic moral codes?

The gap between the Republican and Democratic Parties is too narrow, but on this issue it is hefty. The Republicans have curdled into the Party of Torture, bullying their torture-victim nominee into backing their barbarism, and proudly picking a torturer as their candidate for Congress. That sound of screaming from inside the Palin-drome isn't just from fawning Republicans – it's from men like Yehiya.