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Question: What item is most likely found in the top drawer of Riffy's dresser?

naked pictures of Reagan    
  5 (20.0%)
Barry O voodoo doll    
  3 (12.0%)
Hoffa's body    
  2 (8.0%)
DVDs of "saved by the bell", season 3    
  1 (4.0%)
JC's boss's phone number    
  2 (8.0%)
bucket of chicken    
  5 (20.0%)
three sticks of "secret" deoderant, labels facing out    
  3 (12.0%)
"Eagles Greatest Hits" CD    
  4 (16.0%)




Total votes: 25
« Last Modified by: Starbuck on: Mar 3rd, 2010 at 5:01pm »

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Obama elected President (Read 621,904 times)
Riffhard
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #7575 - Sep 20th, 2009 at 2:18pm
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Huh, Pdog you may want to check your sources my man.


Here. This is directly from the website that I linked to, and yes, those numbers are
FACTS!!!!
*


Sucks to be on the losing end of a lame assed liberal/statist argument, but there you have it. You're wrong. You believe the government is the end all be all of all things good and proper. The fact that history has proven over and over again ad naseum that you are flat wrong. Not only are you wrong, but you are horribly wrong. The data that I provided can not be argued by anyone that is intellectually honest as they are facts. You, and your cohorts, are never, and will never, be even close to intellectually honset. Never!


*The National Center for Policy Analysis (NCPA) is a nonprofit, nonpartisan public policy research organization, established in 1983. The NCPA's goal is to develop and promote private alternatives to government regulation and control, solving problems by relying on the strength of the competitive, entrepreneurial private sector. Topics include reforms in health care, taxes, Social Security, welfare, criminal justice, education and environmental regulation.



Riffy
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...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&"When all government...in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided...” Thomas Jefferson&&&&"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases." — Thomas Jefferson&&&&&&&&We're not old men.We don't bother about petty morals--Keef&&&&Actually, it only takes one drink to get me loaded. Trouble is, I can't remember if it's the thirteenth or fourteenth. &&-- George Burns&&&&&&I ain't no leftist!-Bob Dylan&&&&"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce
 
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Brainbell Jangler
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #7576 - Sep 20th, 2009 at 2:41pm
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Riffhard wrote on Sep 20th, 2009 at 11:31am:
Oh, and this from the completely un-biased and non partisan National Center For Policy Analysis.  http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba649

Riffy

Riffy,
Do not confuse "non-partisan" (usually hyphenated) with "unbiased" (no hyphen required).  "Non-partisan" simply means not officially affiliated with a political party; "unbiased" (in the political context) means not having an ideological slant.  NCPA has a strong "free market" bias.
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"The ROLLING STONES are more than just a group--they are a way of life."--Andrew Loog Oldham
 
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fuman
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #7577 - Sep 20th, 2009 at 2:57pm
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On September 11, 2001, some three thousand Americans were killed by terrorists; our country has spent hundreds of billions of dollars to make sure it doesn't happen again. But that same year, and every year since then, some twenty thousand Americans died because they couldn't get health care. That doesn't happen in any other developed country. Hundreds of thousands of Americans go bankrupt every year because of medical bills. That doesn't happen in any other developed country, either.
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Brainbell Jangler
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #7578 - Sep 20th, 2009 at 3:03pm
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fuman wrote on Sep 20th, 2009 at 2:57pm:
On September 11, 2001, some three thousand Americans were killed by terrorists; our country has spent hundreds of billions of dollars to make sure it doesn't happen again. But that same year, and every year since then, some twenty thousand Americans died because they couldn't get health care. That doesn't happen in any other developed country. Hundreds of thousands of Americans go bankrupt every year because of medical bills. That doesn't happen in any other developed country, either.

As terrible as that is, the new figures (released a day or two ago) are even worse:  45,000 deaths annually in this country due to lack of medical insurance.  Yes, we have terrific medical care for those who can afford it; we just pay twice as much as any other country for that privilege.  Meanwhile, we sacrifice a human life every 12 minutes on the altar of Riffy's soulless idol, Unfettered Capitalism.
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"The ROLLING STONES are more than just a group--they are a way of life."--Andrew Loog Oldham
 
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Brainbell Jangler
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #7579 - Sep 20th, 2009 at 3:24pm
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mojoman wrote on Sep 20th, 2009 at 1:12pm:
I propose to consider here the strains and stresses in the so-called "affluent society," a phrase which has (rightly or wrongly) been coined to describe contemporary American society. Its main characteristics are: (1) an abundant industrial and technical capacity which is to a great extent spent in the production and distribution of luxury goods, gadgets, waste, planned obsolescence, military or semimilitary equipment - in short, in what economists and sociologists used to call "unproductive" goods and services; (2) a rising standard of living, which also extends to previously underprivileged parts of the population; (3) a high degree of concentration of economic and political power, combined with a high degree of organization and government intervention in the economy; (4) scientific and pseudoscientific investigation, control, and manipulation of private and group behavior, both at work and at leisure (including the behavior of the psyche, the soul, the unconscious, and the subconscious) for commercial and political purposes. All these tendencies are interrelated: they make up the syndrome which expresses the normal functioning of the "affluent society." To demonstrate this interrelation is not my task here; I take its existence as the sociological basis for the thesis which I want to submit, namely, that the strains and stresses suffered by the individual in the affluent society are grounded in the normal functioning of this society (and of the individual!) rather than in its disturbances and diseases.

"Normal functioning": I think the definition presents no difficulties for the doctor. The organism functions normally if it functions, without disturbance, in accord with the biological and physiological makeup of the human body. The human faculties and capabilities are certainly very different among the members of the species, and the species itself has changed greatly in the course of its history, but these changes have occurred on a biological and physiological basis which has remained largely constant. To be sure, the physician, in making his diagnosis and in proposing treatment, will take into account the patient's environment, upbringing, and occupation; these factors may limit the extent to which normal functioning can be defined and achieved, or they may even make this achievement impossible, but as criterion and goal, normality remains a clear and meaningful concept. As such, it is identical with "health," and the various deviations from it are to various degrees of "disease."

The situation of the psychiatrist seems to be quite different. At first glance, normality seems to be defined along the same lines the physician uses. The normal functioning of the mind (psyche, psyche-soma) is that which enables the individual to perform, to function in accord with his position as child, adolescent, parent, as a single person or married, in accord with his job, profession, status. But this definition contains factors of an entirely new dimension, namely, that of society, and society is a factor of normality in a fare more essential sense than that of external influence, so much so that "normal" seems to be a social and institutional rather than individual condition. It is probably easy to agree on what is the normal functioning of the digestive tract, the lungs, and the heart, but what is the normal functioning of the mind in love-making, in other interpersonal relations, at work and at leisure, at a meeting of a board of directors, on the golf course, in the slums, in prison, in the army? While the normal functioning of the digestive tract or the lung is likely to be the same in the case of a healthy corporation executive and of a healthy laborer, this does not hold true of their minds. In fact, the one would be very abnormal if he regularly thought, felt, and operated like the other. And what is "normal" lovemaking, a "normal" family, a "normal" occupation?

The psychiatrist might proceed like the general physician and direct therapy to making the patient function within his family, in his job or environment, while trying to influence and even change the environmental factors as much as this is in his power. The limits will soon make themselves felt, for example, if the mental strains and stresses of the patient are caused, not merely by certain bad conditions in his job, in his neighborhood, in his social status, but by the very nature of the job, the neighborhood, the status itself - in their normal condition. Then making him normal for this condition would mean normalizing the strains and stresses, or to put it more brutally: making him capable of being sick, of living his sickness as health, without his noticing that he is sick precisely when he sees himself and is seen as healthy and normal. This would be the case if his work is, by its very nature, "deadening," stupefying, wasteful (even though the job pays well and is "socially" necessary), or if the person belongs to a minority group which is underprivileged in the established society, traditionally poor and occupied mainly in menial and "dirty" physical labor. But this would also be the case (in very different forms) on the other side of the fence among the tycoons of business and politics, where efficient and profitable performance requires (and reproduces) the qualities of smart ruthlessness, moral indifference, and persistent aggressiveness. In such cases, "normal" functioning would be tantamount to a distortion and mutilation of a human being - no matter how modestly one may define the human qualities of a human being. Erich Fromm wrote The Sane Society; it deals, not with the established, but with a future, society, the implication being that the established society is not sane but insane. Is not the individual who functions normally, adequately, and healthily as a citizen of a sick society - is not such an individual himself sick? And would not a sick society require an antagonistic concept of mental health, a meta-concept designating (and preserving) mental qualities which are tabooed, arrested, or distorted by the "sanity" prevalent in the sick society? (For example, mental health equals the ability to live as a dissenter, to live a nonadjusted life.)

As a tentative definition of "sick society" we can say that a society is sick when its basic institutions and relations, its structure, are such that they do not permit the use of the available material and intellectual resources for the optimal development and satisfaction of individual needs. The larger the discrepancy between the potential and actual human conditions, the greater the social need for what I term "surplus-repression," that is, repression necessitated not by the growth and preservation of civilization but by the vested interest in maintaining an established society. Such surplus-repression introduces (over and above, or rather underneath, the social conflicts) new strains and stresses in the individuals. Usually handled by the normal working of the social process, which assures adjustment and submission (fear of loss of job or status, ostracism, and so forth, no special enforcement policies with respect to the mind are required. But in the contemporary affluent society, the discrepancy between the established modes of existence and the real possibilities of human freedom is so great that, in order to prevent an explosion, society has to insure a more effective mental coordination of individuals: in its unconscious as well as conscious dimensions, the psyche is opened up and subjected to systematic manipulation and control.

When I speak of the surplus-repression "required" for the maintenance of a society, or of the need for systematic manipulation and control, I do not refer to individually experienced social needs and consciously inaugurated policies: they may be thus experienced and inaugurated or they may not. I rather speak of tendencies, forces which can be identified by an analysis of the existing society and which assert themselves even if the policy makers are not aware of them. They express the requirements of the established apparatus of production, distribution, and consumption - economic, technical, political, mental requirements which have to be fulfilled in order to assure the continued functioning of the apparatus on which the population depends, and the continuing function of the social relationships derived from the organization of the apparatus. These objective tendencies become manifest in the trend of the economy, in technological change, in the domestic and foreign policy of a nation or group of nations, and they generate common, supraindividual needs and goals in the different social classes, pressure groups, and parties. Under the normal conditions of social cohesion, the objective tendencies override or absorb individual interest and goals without exploding the society; however, the particular interest is not simply determined by the universal: the former has its own range of freedom, and contributes, in accordance with its social position, to the shaping of the general interest - but short of a revolution, the particular needs and goals will remain defined by the predominant objective tendencies. Marx believed that they assert themselves "behind the back" of the individuals; in the advanced societies of today, this is true only with strong qualifications. Social engineering, scientific management of enterprise and human relations, and manipulation of instinctual needs are practiced on the policy-making level and testify to the degree of awareness within the general blindness.

As for the systematic manipulation and control of the psyche in the advanced industrial society, manipulation and control for what, and by whom? Over and above all particular manipulation in the interest of certain businesses, policies, lobbies - the general objective purpose is to reconcile the individual with the mode of existence which his society imposes on him. Because of the high degree of surplus-repression involved in such reconciliation, it is necessary to achieve a libidinal cathexis of the merchandise the individual has to buy (or sell), the services he has to use (or perform), the fun he has to enjoy, the status symbols he has to carry - necessary, because the existence of the society depends on their uninterrupted production and consumption. In other words, social needs must become individual needs, instinctual needs. And to the degree to which the productivity of this society requires mass production and mass consumption, these needs must be standardized, coordinated, generalized. Certainly, these controls are not a conspiracy, they are not centralized in any agency or group of agencies (although the trend toward centralization is gaining momentum); they are rather diffused throughout the society, exercised by the neighbors, the community, the peer groups, mass media, corporations, and (perhaps least) by the government. But they are exercised with the help of, in fact rendered possible by, science, by the social and behavioral sciences, and especially by sociology and psychology. As industrial sociology and psychology, or, more euphemistically, as "science of human relations," these scientific efforts have become an indispensable tool in the hands of the powers that be.

These brief remarks are suggestive of the depth of society's ingression into the psyche, the extent to which mental health, normality, is not that of the individual but of his society. Such a harmony between the individual and society would be highly desirable if the society offered the individual the conditions for his development as a human being in accord with the available possibilities of freedom, peace, and happiness (that is in accord with the possible liberation of his life instincts), but it is highly destructive to the individual if these conditions do not prevail. Where they do not prevail, the healthy and normal individual is a human being equipped with all the qualities which enable him to get along with others in his society, and these very same qualities are the marks of repression, the marks of a mutilated human being, who collaborates in his own repression, in the containment of potential individual and social freedom, in the release of aggression. And this situation cannot be solved within the framework of any psychology - a solution can be envisaged only on the political level: in the struggle against society. To be sure, therapy could demonstrate this situation and prepare the mental ground for such a struggle - but then psychiatry would be a subversive undertaking.

The question now is whether the strains in contemporary American society, in the affluent society, suggest the prevalence of conditions essentially negative to individual development in the sense just discussed. Or, to formulate the question in terms more indicate of the approach I propose to take: Do these strains vitiate the very possibility of "healthy" individual development - healthy defined in terms of optimal development of one's intellectual and emotional faculties? The question calls for an affirmative answer, that is, this society vitiates individual developments, if the prevailing strains are related to the very structure of this society and if they activate in its members instinctual needs and satisfactions which set the individuals against themselves so that they reproduce and intensify their own repression.

At first glance, the strains in our society seem to be those characteristic of any society which develops under the impact of great technological changes: they initiate new modes of work and of leisure and thereby affect all social relationships, and bring about a thorough transvaluation of values. Since physical labor tends to become increasingly unnecessary and even wasteful, since the work of salaried employees too becomes increasingly "automatic" and that of the politicians and administrators increasingly questionable, the traditional content of the struggle for existence appears more meaningless and without substance the more it appears as unnecessary necessity. But the future alternative, namely, the possible abolition of (alienated) labor seems equally meaningless, nay, frightening. And indeed, if one envisages this alternative as the progress and development of the established system, then the dislocation of the content of life to free time suggest the shape of a nightmare: massive self-realization, fun, sport in a steadily shrinking space.

But the threat of the "bogey of automation" is itself ideology. On the one hand it serves the perpetuation and reproduction of technically obsolete and unnecessary jobs and occupations (unemployment as normal condition, even if comfortable, seems worse than stupefying routine work); on the other hand it justifies and promotes the education and training of the managers and organization men of leisure time, that is to say, it serves to prolong and enlarge control and manipulation.

The real danger for the established system is not the abolition of labor but the possibility of nonalienated labor as the basis of the reproduction of society. Not that people are no longer compelled to work, but that they might be compelled to work for a very different life and in very different relations, that they might be given very different goals and values, that they might have to live with a very different morality - this is the "definite negation" of the established system, the liberating alternative. For example, socially necessary labor might be organized for such efforts as the rebuilding of cities and towns, the relocation of the places of work (so that people learn again how to walk), the construction of industries which produce goods without built-in obsolescence, without profitable waste and poor quality, and the subjection of the environment to the vital aesthetic needs of the organism. To be sure, to translate this possibility into reality would mean to eliminate the power of the dominant interests which, by their very function in the society, are opposed to a development that would reduce private enterprise to a minor role, that would do away with the market economy, and with the policy of military preparedness, expansion, and intervention - in other words: a development that would reverse the entire prevailing trend. There is little evidence for such a development. In the meantime, and with the new and terribly effective and total means provided by technical progress, the population is physically and mentally mobilized against this eventuality: they must continue the struggle for existence in painful, costly and obsolete forms.

This is the real contradiction which translates itself from the social structure into the mental structure of the individuals. There, it activates and aggravates destructive tendencies which, in a hardly sublimated mode, are made socially useful in the behavior of the individuals, on the private as well as political level - in the behavior of the nation as a whole. Destructive energy becomes socially useful aggressive energy, and the aggressive behavior impels growth - growth of economic, political, and technical power. Just as in the contemporary scientific enterprise, so in the economic enterprise and in that of the nation as a whole, constructive and destructive achievements, work for life and work for death, procreating and killing are inextricably united. To restrict the exploitation of nuclear energy would mean to restrict its peaceful as well as military potential; the amelioration and protection of life appear as by-products of the scientific work on the annihilation of life; to restrict procreation would also mean to restrict potential manpower and the number of potential customers and clients. Now the (more or less sublimated) transformation of destructive into socially useful aggressive (and thereby constructive) energy is, according to Freud (on whose instinct-theory I base my interpretation) a normal and indispensable process. It is part of the same dynamic by which libido, erotic energy, is sublimated and made socially useful; the two opposite impulses are forced together and, united in this twofold transformation, they become the mental and organic vehicles of civilization. But no matter how close and effective their union, their respective quality remains unchanged and contrary: aggression activates destruction which "aims" at death, while libido seeks the preservation, protection, and amelioration of life. Therefore, it is only as long as destruction works in the service of Eros that it serves civilization and the individual; if aggression becomes stronger than its erotic counterpart, the trend is reversed. Moreover, in the Freudian conception, destructive energy cannot become stronger without reducing erotic energy: the balance between the two primary impulses is a quantitative one; the instinctual dynamic is mechanistic, distributing an available quantum of energy between the two antagonists.

I have briefly restated Freud's conception inasmuch as I shall use it to discuss the depth and character of the strains prevalent in American society. I suggest that the strains derive from the basic contradiction between the capabilities of this society, which could produce essentially new forms of freedom amounting to a subversion of the established institutions on the one hand, and the repressive use of these capabilities on the other. The contradiction explodes - and is at the same time "resolved," "contained" - in the ubiquitous aggression prevalent in this society. Its most conspicuous (but by no means isolated) manifestation is the military mobilization and its effect on the mental behavior of the individuals, but within the context of the basic contradiction, aggressiveness is fed by many sources. The following seem to be foremost:

(1) The dehumanization of the process of production and consumption. Technical progress is identical with the increasing elimination of personal initiative, inclination, taste, and need from the provision of goods and services. This tendency is liberating if the available resources and techniques are used for freeing the individual from labor and recreation which are required for the reproduction of the established institutions but are parasitic, wasteful, and dehumanizing in terms of the existing technical and intellectual capabilities. The same tendency often gratifies hostility.

(2) The conditions of crowding, noise, and overtness characteristic of mass society. As René Dubos has said, the need for "quiet, privacy, independence, initiative, and some open space" are not "frills or luxuries but constitute real biological necessities." Their lack injures the instinctual structure itself. Freud has emphasized the "asocial" character of Eros - the mass society achieves an "oversocialization" to which the individual reacts "with all sorts of frustrations, repressions, aggressions, and fears which soon develop into genuine neuroses."

I mentioned, as the most conspicuous social mobilization of aggressiveness, the militarization of the affluent society. This mobilization goes far beyond the actual draft of man-power and the buildup of the armament industry: its truly totalitarian aspects show forth in the daily mass media which feed "public opinion." The brutalization of language and image, the presentation of killing, burning, and poisoning and torture inflicted upon the victims of neocolonial slaughter is made in a common-sensible, factual, sometimes humorous style which integrates these horrors with the pranks of juvenile delinquents, football contests, accidents, stock market reports, and the weatherman. This is no longer the "classical" heroizing of killing in the national interest, but rather its reduction to the level of natural events and contingencies of daily life.

The consequence is a "psychological habituation of war" which is administered to a people protected from the actuality of war, a people who, by virtue of this habituation, easily familiarizes itself with the "kill rate" as it is already familiar with other "rates" (such as those of business or traffic or unemployment). The people are conditioned to live "with the hazards, the brutalities, and the mounting casualties of the war in Vietnam, just as one learns gradually to live with the everyday hazards and casualties of smoking, of smog, or of traffic." [1] The photos which appear in the daily newspapers and in magazines with mass circulation, often in nice and glossy color, show rows of prisoners laid out or stood up for "interrogation," little children dragged through the dust behind armored cars, mutilated women. They are nothing new ("such things happen in a war"), but it is the setting that makes the difference: their appearance in the regular program, in togetherness with the commercials, sports, local politics, and reports on the social set. And the brutality of power is further normalized by its extension to the beloved automobile: the manufacturers sell a Thunderbird, Fury, Tempest, and the oil industry puts "a tiger in your tank."

However, the administered language is rigidly discriminating: a specific vocabulary of hate, resentment, and defamation is reserved for opposition to the aggressive policies and for the enemy. The pattern constantly repeats itself. Thus, when students demonstrate against the war, it is a "mob" swelled by "bearded advocates of sexual freedom," by unwashed juveniles, and by "hoodlums and street urchins" who "tramp" the streets, while the counterdemonstrations consist of citizens who gather. In Vietnam, "typical criminal communist violence" is perpetrated against American "strategic operations." The Reds have the impertinence to launch "a sneak attack" (presumably they are supposed to announce it beforehand and to deploy in the open); they are "evading a death trap" (presumably they should have stayed in). The Vietcong attack American barracks "in the dead of night" and kill American boys (presumably, Americans only attack in broad daylight, don't disturb the sleep of the enemy, and don't kill Vietnamese boys). The massacre of hundred thousands of communists (in Indonesia) is called "impressive" - a comparable "killing rate" suffered by the other side would hardly have been honored with such an adjective. To the Chinese, the presence of American troops in East Asia is a threat to their "ideology," while presumably the presence of Chinese troops in Central or South America would be a real, and not only ideological, threat to the United States.

The loaded language proceeds according to the Orwellian recipe of the identity of opposites: in the mouth of the enemy, peace means war, and defense is attack, while on the righteous side, escalation is restraint, and saturation bombing prepares for peace. Organized in this discriminatory fashion, language designates a priori the enemy as evil in his entirety and in all his actions and intentions.

Such mobilization of aggressiveness cannot be explained by the magnitude of the communist threat: the image of the ostensible enemy is inflated out of all proportion to reality. What is at stake is rather the continued stability and growth of a system which is threatened by its own irrationality - by the narrow base on which its prosperity rests, by the dehumanization which its wasteful and parasitic affluence demands. The senseless war is itself part of this irrationality and thus of the essence of the system. What may have been a minor involvement at the beginning, almost an accident, a contingency of foreign policy, has become a test case for the productivity, competitiveness, and prestige of the whole. The billions of dollars spent for the war effort are a political as well as economic stimulus (or cure): a big way of absorbing part of the economic surplus, and of keeping the people in line. Defeat in Vietnam may well be the signal for other wars of liberation closer to home - and perhaps even for rebellion at home.

To be sure, the social utilization of aggressiveness belongs to the historical structure of civilization and has been a powerful vehicle of progress. However, here too, there is a stage where quantity may turn into quality and subvert the normal balance between the two primary instincts in favor of destruction. I mentioned the "bogey man" of automation. In fact the real spectre for the affluent society is the possible reduction of labor to a level where the human organism need no longer function as an instrument of labor. The mere quantitative decline in needed human labor power militates against the maintenance of the capitalist mode of production (as of all other exploitative modes of production). The system reacts by stepping up the production of goods and services which either do not enlarge individual consumption at all, or enlarge it with luxuries - luxuries in the face of persistent poverty, but luxuries which are necessities for occupying a labor force sufficient to reproduce the established economic and political institutions. To the degree to which this sort of work appears as superfluous, senseless, and unnecessary while necessary for earning a living, frustration is built into the very productivity of this society, and aggressiveness is activated. And to the degree to which the society in its very structure becomes aggressive, the mental structure of its citizens adjusts itself: the individual becomes at one and the same time more aggressive and more pliable and submissive, for he submits by a society which, by virtue of its affluence and power, satisfies his deepest (and otherwise greatly repressed) instinctual needs. And these instinctual needs apparently find their libidinal reflection in the representatives of the people. the chairman of the Armed Services Committee of the United States Senate, Senator Russell of Georgia, was struck by this fact. He is quoted as saying:

There is something about preparing for destruction that causes men to be more careless in spending money than they would be if they were building for constructive purposes. Why that is, I do not know; but I have observed, over a period of almost thirty years in the Senate, that there is something about buying arms with which to kill, to destroy, to wipe out cities, and to obliterate great transportation systems which causes men not to reckon the dollar cost as closely as they do when they think about proper housing and the care of the health of human beings. [2]

I have argued elsewhere the question of how one can possibly gauge and historically compare the aggression prevalent in a specific society; instead of restating the case, I want now to focus on different aspects, on the specific forms in which aggression today is released and satisfied.

The most telling one, and the one which distinguishes the new from the traditional forms, is what I call technological aggression and satisfaction. The phenomenon is quickly described: the act of aggression is physically carried out by a mechanism with a high degree of automatism, of far greater power than the individual human being who sets it in motion, keeps it in motion, and determines its end or target. The most extreme case is the rocket or missile; the most ordinary example the automobile. This means that the energy, the power activated and consummated is the mechanical, electrical, or nuclear energy of "things" rather than the instinctual energy of a human being. Aggression is, as it were, transferred from a subject to an object, or is at least "mediated" by an object, and the target is destroyed by a thing rather than by a person. This change in the relation between human and material energy, and between the physical and mental part of aggression (man becomes the subject and agent of aggression by virtue of his mental rather than physical faculties) must also affect the mental dynamic. I submit a hypothesis which is suggested by the inner logic of the process: with the "delegation" of destruction to a more or less automated thing or group and system of things, the instinctual satisfaction of the human person is "interrupted," reduced, frustrated, "super-sublimated." And such frustration makes for repetition and escalation: increasing violence, speed, enlarged scope. At the same time, personal responsibility, conscience, and the sense of guilt is weakened, or rather diffused, displaced from the actual context in which the aggression was committed (i.e. bombing raids), and relocated in a more or less innocuous context (impoliteness, sexual inadequacy, etc.). In this reaction too, the effect is a considerable weakening of the sense of guilt, and the defense (hatred, resentment) is also redirected from the real responsible subject (the commanding officer, the government) to a substitute person: not I as a (morally and physically) acting person did it, but the thing, the machine. The machine: the word suggests that an apparatus consisting of human beings may be substituted for the mechanical apparatus: the bureaucracy, the administration, the party, or organization is the responsible agent; I, the individual person, was only the instrumentality. And an instrument cannot, in any moral sense, be responsible or be in a state of guilt. In this way, another barrier against aggression, which civilization had erected in a long and violent process of discipline is removed. And the expansion of advanced capitalism becomes involved in a fateful psychical dialectic which enters into and propels its economic and political dynamic: the more powerful and "technological" aggression becomes, the less is it apt to satisfy and pacify the primary impulse, and the more it tends toward repetition and escalation.

To be sure, the use of instruments of aggression is as old as civilization itself, but there is a decisive difference between technological aggression and the more primitive forms. The latter were not only quantitatively different (weaker): they required activation and engagement of the body to a much higher degree than the automated or semiautomated instruments of aggression. The knife, the "blunt instrument," even the revolver are far more "part" of the individual who uses them and they associate him more closely with his target. Moreover, and most important, their use, unless effectively sublimated and in the service of the life instincts (as in the case of the surgeon, household, etc.), is criminal - individual crime - and as such subject to severe punishment. In contrast, technological aggression is not a crime. The speeding driver of an automobile or motor boat is not called a murderer even if he is one; and certainly the missile-firing engineers are not.

Technological aggression releases a mental dynamic which aggravates the destructive, antierotic tendencies of the puritan complex. The new modes of aggression destroy without getting one's hands dirty, one's body soiled, one's mind incriminated. The killer remains clean, physically as well as mentally. The purity of his deadly work obtains added sanction if it is directed against the national enemy in the national interest.

The (anonymous) lead article in Les Temps Modernes (January 1966) links the war in Vietnam with the puritan tradition in the United States. The image of the enemy is that of dirt in its most repulsive forms; the unclean jungle is his natural habitat, disembowelment and beheading are his natural ways of action. Consequently, the burning of his refuge, defoliation, and the poisoning of his foodstuff are not only strategic but also moral operations: removing of contagious dirt, clearing the way for the order of political hygiene and righteousness. And the mass purging of the good conscience from all rational inhibitions leads to the atrophy of the last rebellion of sanity against the madhouse: no satire, no ridicule attends the moralists who organize and defend the crime. Thus one of them can, without becoming a laughingstock, publicly praise as the "greatest performance in our nation's history," the indeed historical achievement of the richest, most powerful, and most advanced country of the world unleashing the destructive force of its technical superiority on one of the poorest, weakest, and most helpless countries of the world.

The decline of responsibility and guilt, their absorption by the omnipotent technical and political apparatus also tends to invalidate other values which were to restrain and sublimate aggression. While the militarization of society remains the most conspicuous and destructive manifestation of this tendency, its less ostensible effects in the cultural dimension should not be minimized. One of these effects is the disintegration of the value of truth. The media enjoy a large dispensation from the commitment to truth, and in a very special way. The point is not that the media lie ("lie" presupposes commitment to truth), they rather mingle truth and half-truth with omission, factual reporting with commentary and evaluation, information with publicity and propaganda - all this made into an overwhelming whole through editorializing. The editorially unpleasant truths (and how many of the most decisive truths are not unpleasant?) retreat between the lines, or hide, or mingle harmoniously with nonsense, fun, and so-called human interest stories. And the consumer is readily inclined to take all this for granted - he buys it even if he knows better. Now the commitment to the truth has always been precarious, hedged with strong qualifications, suspended, or suppressed - it is only in the context of the general and democratic activation of aggressiveness that the devaluation of truth assumes special significance. For truth is a value in the strict sense inasmuch as it serves the protection and amelioration of life, as a guide in man's struggle with nature and with himself, with his own weakness and his own destructiveness. In this function, truth is indeed a matter of the sublimated life instincts, Eros, of intelligence becoming responsible and autonomous, striving to liberate life from dependence on unmastered and repressive forces. And with respect to this protective and liberating function of truth, its devaluation removes another effective barrier against destruction.

The encroachment of aggression on the domain of the life instincts also devalues the aesthetic dimension. In Eros and Civilization I have tried to show the erotic component in this dimension. Nonfunctional, that is to say, not committed to the functioning of a repressive society, the aesthetic values have been strong protectors of Eros in civilization. Nature is part of this dimension. Eros seeks, in polymorphous forms, its own sensuous world of fulfillment, its own "natural" environment. But only in a protected world - protected from daily business, from noise, crowds, waste, only thus can it satisfy the biological need for happiness. The aggressive business practices which turn ever more spaces of protective nature into a medium of commercial fulfillment and fun thus do not merely offend beauty - they repress biological necessities.

Once we agree to discuss the hypothesis that, in advanced industrial society surplus-aggression is released in quite unsuspected and "normal" behavior, we may see it even in areas which are far removed from the more familiar manifestations of aggression, for instance the style of publicity and information practiced by the mass media. Characteristic is the permanent repetition: the same commercial with the same text or picture broadcast or televised again and again; the same phrases and clichés poured out by the purveyors and makers of information again and again; the same programs and platforms professed by the politicians again and again. Freud arrived at his concept of the death instinct in the context of his analysis of the "repetition compulsion": he associated with it the striving for a state of complete inertia, absence of tension, return to the womb, annihilation. Hitler knew well the extreme function of repetition: the biggest lie, often enough repeated, will be acted upon and accepted as truth. Even in its less extreme use, constant repetition, imposed upon more or less captive audiences, may be destructive: destroying mental autonomy, freedom of thought, responsibility and conducive to inertia, submission, rejection of change. The established society, the master of repetition, becomes the great womb for its citizens. To be sure, this road to inertia and this reduction of tension is one of high and not very satisfactory sublimation: it does not lead to an instinctual nirvana of satisfaction. However, it may well reduce the stress of intelligence, the pain and tension which accompany autonomous mental activity - thus it may be an effective aggression against the mind in its socially disturbing, critical functions.

These are highly speculative hypotheses on the socially and mentally fateful character of aggression in our society. Aggression is (in most cases) socially useful destructiveness - and yet fateful because of its self-propelling character and scope. In this respect too, it is badly sublimated and not very satisfying. If Freud's theory is correct, and the destructive impulse strives for the annihilation of the individual's own life no matter how long the "detour" via other lives and targets, then we may indeed speak of a suicidal tendency on a truly social scale, and the national and international play with total destruction may well have found a firm basis in the instinctual structure of individuals.


Interesting stuff, mojoman.  Is it Marcuse?  Or the Unabomber Manifesto?"
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #7580 - Sep 20th, 2009 at 3:33pm
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Brainbell Jangler wrote on Sep 20th, 2009 at 3:24pm:
mojoman wrote on Sep 20th, 2009 at 1:12pm:
I propose to consider here the strains and stresses in the so-called "affluent society," a phrase which has (rightly or wrongly) been coined to describe contemporary American society. Its main characteristics are: (1) an abundant industrial and technical capacity which is to a great extent spent in the production and distribution of luxury goods, gadgets, waste, planned obsolescence, military or semimilitary equipment - in short, in what economists and sociologists used to call "unproductive" goods and services; (2) a rising standard of living, which also extends to previously underprivileged parts of the population; (3) a high degree of concentration of economic and political power, combined with a high degree of organization and government intervention in the economy; (4) scientific and pseudoscientific investigation, control, and manipulation of private and group behavior, both at work and at leisure (including the behavior of the psyche, the soul, the unconscious, and the subconscious) for commercial and political purposes. All these tendencies are interrelated: they make up the syndrome which expresses the normal functioning of the "affluent society." To demonstrate this interrelation is not my task here; I take its existence as the sociological basis for the thesis which I want to submit, namely, that the strains and stresses suffered by the individual in the affluent society are grounded in the normal functioning of this society (and of the individual!) rather than in its disturbances and diseases.

"Normal functioning": I think the definition presents no difficulties for the doctor. The organism functions normally if it functions, without disturbance, in accord with the biological and physiological makeup of the human body. The human faculties and capabilities are certainly very different among the members of the species, and the species itself has changed greatly in the course of its history, but these changes have occurred on a biological and physiological basis which has remained largely constant. To be sure, the physician, in making his diagnosis and in proposing treatment, will take into account the patient's environment, upbringing, and occupation; these factors may limit the extent to which normal functioning can be defined and achieved, or they may even make this achievement impossible, but as criterion and goal, normality remains a clear and meaningful concept. As such, it is identical with "health," and the various deviations from it are to various degrees of "disease."

The situation of the psychiatrist seems to be quite different. At first glance, normality seems to be defined along the same lines the physician uses. The normal functioning of the mind (psyche, psyche-soma) is that which enables the individual to perform, to function in accord with his position as child, adolescent, parent, as a single person or married, in accord with his job, profession, status. But this definition contains factors of an entirely new dimension, namely, that of society, and society is a factor of normality in a fare more essential sense than that of external influence, so much so that "normal" seems to be a social and institutional rather than individual condition. It is probably easy to agree on what is the normal functioning of the digestive tract, the lungs, and the heart, but what is the normal functioning of the mind in love-making, in other interpersonal relations, at work and at leisure, at a meeting of a board of directors, on the golf course, in the slums, in prison, in the army? While the normal functioning of the digestive tract or the lung is likely to be the same in the case of a healthy corporation executive and of a healthy laborer, this does not hold true of their minds. In fact, the one would be very abnormal if he regularly thought, felt, and operated like the other. And what is "normal" lovemaking, a "normal" family, a "normal" occupation?

The psychiatrist might proceed like the general physician and direct therapy to making the patient function within his family, in his job or environment, while trying to influence and even change the environmental factors as much as this is in his power. The limits will soon make themselves felt, for example, if the mental strains and stresses of the patient are caused, not merely by certain bad conditions in his job, in his neighborhood, in his social status, but by the very nature of the job, the neighborhood, the status itself - in their normal condition. Then making him normal for this condition would mean normalizing the strains and stresses, or to put it more brutally: making him capable of being sick, of living his sickness as health, without his noticing that he is sick precisely when he sees himself and is seen as healthy and normal. This would be the case if his work is, by its very nature, "deadening," stupefying, wasteful (even though the job pays well and is "socially" necessary), or if the person belongs to a minority group which is underprivileged in the established society, traditionally poor and occupied mainly in menial and "dirty" physical labor. But this would also be the case (in very different forms) on the other side of the fence among the tycoons of business and politics, where efficient and profitable performance requires (and reproduces) the qualities of smart ruthlessness, moral indifference, and persistent aggressiveness. In such cases, "normal" functioning would be tantamount to a distortion and mutilation of a human being - no matter how modestly one may define the human qualities of a human being. Erich Fromm wrote The Sane Society; it deals, not with the established, but with a future, society, the implication being that the established society is not sane but insane. Is not the individual who functions normally, adequately, and healthily as a citizen of a sick society - is not such an individual himself sick? And would not a sick society require an antagonistic concept of mental health, a meta-concept designating (and preserving) mental qualities which are tabooed, arrested, or distorted by the "sanity" prevalent in the sick society? (For example, mental health equals the ability to live as a dissenter, to live a nonadjusted life.)

As a tentative definition of "sick society" we can say that a society is sick when its basic institutions and relations, its structure, are such that they do not permit the use of the available material and intellectual resources for the optimal development and satisfaction of individual needs. The larger the discrepancy between the potential and actual human conditions, the greater the social need for what I term "surplus-repression," that is, repression necessitated not by the growth and preservation of civilization but by the vested interest in maintaining an established society. Such surplus-repression introduces (over and above, or rather underneath, the social conflicts) new strains and stresses in the individuals. Usually handled by the normal working of the social process, which assures adjustment and submission (fear of loss of job or status, ostracism, and so forth, no special enforcement policies with respect to the mind are required. But in the contemporary affluent society, the discrepancy between the established modes of existence and the real possibilities of human freedom is so great that, in order to prevent an explosion, society has to insure a more effective mental coordination of individuals: in its unconscious as well as conscious dimensions, the psyche is opened up and subjected to systematic manipulation and control.

When I speak of the surplus-repression "required" for the maintenance of a society, or of the need for systematic manipulation and control, I do not refer to individually experienced social needs and consciously inaugurated policies: they may be thus experienced and inaugurated or they may not. I rather speak of tendencies, forces which can be identified by an analysis of the existing society and which assert themselves even if the policy makers are not aware of them. They express the requirements of the established apparatus of production, distribution, and consumption - economic, technical, political, mental requirements which have to be fulfilled in order to assure the continued functioning of the apparatus on which the population depends, and the continuing function of the social relationships derived from the organization of the apparatus. These objective tendencies become manifest in the trend of the economy, in technological change, in the domestic and foreign policy of a nation or group of nations, and they generate common, supraindividual needs and goals in the different social classes, pressure groups, and parties. Under the normal conditions of social cohesion, the objective tendencies override or absorb individual interest and goals without exploding the society; however, the particular interest is not simply determined by the universal: the former has its own range of freedom, and contributes, in accordance with its social position, to the shaping of the general interest - but short of a revolution, the particular needs and goals will remain defined by the predominant objective tendencies. Marx believed that they assert themselves "behind the back" of the individuals; in the advanced societies of today, this is true only with strong qualifications. Social engineering, scientific management of enterprise and human relations, and manipulation of instinctual needs are practiced on the policy-making level and testify to the degree of awareness within the general blindness.

As for the systematic manipulation and control of the psyche in the advanced industrial society, manipulation and control for what, and by whom? Over and above all particular manipulation in the interest of certain businesses, policies, lobbies - the general objective purpose is to reconcile the individual with the mode of existence which his society imposes on him. Because of the high degree of surplus-repression involved in such reconciliation, it is necessary to achieve a libidinal cathexis of the merchandise the individual has to buy (or sell), the services he has to use (or perform), the fun he has to enjoy, the status symbols he has to carry - necessary, because the existence of the society depends on their uninterrupted production and consumption. In other words, social needs must become individual needs, instinctual needs. And to the degree to which the productivity of this society requires mass production and mass consumption, these needs must be standardized, coordinated, generalized. Certainly, these controls are not a conspiracy, they are not centralized in any agency or group of agencies (although the trend toward centralization is gaining momentum); they are rather diffused throughout the society, exercised by the neighbors, the community, the peer groups, mass media, corporations, and (perhaps least) by the government. But they are exercised with the help of, in fact rendered possible by, science, by the social and behavioral sciences, and especially by sociology and psychology. As industrial sociology and psychology, or, more euphemistically, as "science of human relations," these scientific efforts have become an indispensable tool in the hands of the powers that be.

These brief remarks are suggestive of the depth of society's ingression into the psyche, the extent to which mental health, normality, is not that of the individual but of his society. Such a harmony between the individual and society would be highly desirable if the society offered the individual the conditions for his development as a human being in accord with the available possibilities of freedom, peace, and happiness (that is in accord with the possible liberation of his life instincts), but it is highly destructive to the individual if these conditions do not prevail. Where they do not prevail, the healthy and normal individual is a human being equipped with all the qualities which enable him to get along with others in his society, and these very same qualities are the marks of repression, the marks of a mutilated human being, who collaborates in his own repression, in the containment of potential individual and social freedom, in the release of aggression. And this situation cannot be solved within the framework of any psychology - a solution can be envisaged only on the political level: in the struggle against society. To be sure, therapy could demonstrate this situation and prepare the mental ground for such a struggle - but then psychiatry would be a subversive undertaking.

The question now is whether the strains in contemporary American society, in the affluent society, suggest the prevalence of conditions essentially negative to individual development in the sense just discussed. Or, to formulate the question in terms more indicate of the approach I propose to take: Do these strains vitiate the very possibility of "healthy" individual development - healthy defined in terms of optimal development of one's intellectual and emotional faculties? The question calls for an affirmative answer, that is, this society vitiates individual developments, if the prevailing strains are related to the very structure of this society and if they activate in its members instinctual needs and satisfactions which set the individuals against themselves so that they reproduce and intensify their own repression.

At first glance, the strains in our society seem to be those characteristic of any society which develops under the impact of great technological changes: they initiate new modes of work and of leisure and thereby affect all social relationships, and bring about a thorough transvaluation of values. Since physical labor tends to become increasingly unnecessary and even wasteful, since the work of salaried employees too becomes increasingly "automatic" and that of the politicians and administrators increasingly questionable, the traditional content of the struggle for existence appears more meaningless and without substance the more it appears as unnecessary necessity. But the future alternative, namely, the possible abolition of (alienated) labor seems equally meaningless, nay, frightening. And indeed, if one envisages this alternative as the progress and development of the established system, then the dislocation of the content of life to free time suggest the shape of a nightmare: massive self-realization, fun, sport in a steadily shrinking space.

But the threat of the "bogey of automation" is itself ideology. On the one hand it serves the perpetuation and reproduction of technically obsolete and unnecessary jobs and occupations (unemployment as normal condition, even if comfortable, seems worse than stupefying routine work); on the other hand it justifies and promotes the education and training of the managers and organization men of leisure time, that is to say, it serves to prolong and enlarge control and manipulation.

The real danger for the established system is not the abolition of labor but the possibility of nonalienated labor as the basis of the reproduction of society. Not that people are no longer compelled to work, but that they might be compelled to work for a very different life and in very different relations, that they might be given very different goals and values, that they might have to live with a very different morality - this is the "definite negation" of the established system, the liberating alternative. For example, socially necessary labor might be organized for such efforts as the rebuilding of cities and towns, the relocation of the places of work (so that people learn again how to walk), the construction of industries which produce goods without built-in obsolescence, without profitable waste and poor quality, and the subjection of the environment to the vital aesthetic needs of the organism. To be sure, to translate this possibility into reality would mean to eliminate the power of the dominant interests which, by their very function in the society, are opposed to a development that would reduce private enterprise to a minor role, that would do away with the market economy, and with the policy of military preparedness, expansion, and intervention - in other words: a development that would reverse the entire prevailing trend. There is little evidence for such a development. In the meantime, and with the new and terribly effective and total means provided by technical progress, the population is physically and mentally mobilized against this eventuality: they must continue the struggle for existence in painful, costly and obsolete forms.

This is the real contradiction which translates itself from the social structure into the mental structure of the individuals. There, it activates and aggravates destructive tendencies which, in a hardly sublimated mode, are made socially useful in the behavior of the individuals, on the private as well as political level - in the behavior of the nation as a whole. Destructive energy becomes socially useful aggressive energy, and the aggressive behavior impels growth - growth of economic, political, and technical power. Just as in the contemporary scientific enterprise, so in the economic enterprise and in that of the nation as a whole, constructive and destructive achievements, work for life and work for death, procreating and killing are inextricably united. To restrict the exploitation of nuclear energy would mean to restrict its peaceful as well as military potential; the amelioration and protection of life appear as by-products of the scientific work on the annihilation of life; to restrict procreation would also mean to restrict potential manpower and the number of potential customers and clients. Now the (more or less sublimated) transformation of destructive into socially useful aggressive (and thereby constructive) energy is, according to Freud (on whose instinct-theory I base my interpretation) a normal and indispensable process. It is part of the same dynamic by which libido, erotic energy, is sublimated and made socially useful; the two opposite impulses are forced together and, united in this twofold transformation, they become the mental and organic vehicles of civilization. But no matter how close and effective their union, their respective quality remains unchanged and contrary: aggression activates destruction which "aims" at death, while libido seeks the preservation, protection, and amelioration of life. Therefore, it is only as long as destruction works in the service of Eros that it serves civilization and the individual; if aggression becomes stronger than its erotic counterpart, the trend is reversed. Moreover, in the Freudian conception, destructive energy cannot become stronger without reducing erotic energy: the balance between the two primary impulses is a quantitative one; the instinctual dynamic is mechanistic, distributing an available quantum of energy between the two antagonists.

I have briefly restated Freud's conception inasmuch as I shall use it to discuss the depth and character of the strains prevalent in American society. I suggest that the strains derive from the basic contradiction between the capabilities of this society, which could produce essentially new forms of freedom amounting to a subversion of the established institutions on the one hand, and the repressive use of these capabilities on the other. The contradiction explodes - and is at the same time "resolved," "contained" - in the ubiquitous aggression prevalent in this society. Its most conspicuous (but by no means isolated) manifestation is the military mobilization and its effect on the mental behavior of the individuals, but within the context of the basic contradiction, aggressiveness is fed by many sources. The following seem to be foremost:

(1) The dehumanization of the process of production and consumption. Technical progress is identical with the increasing elimination of personal initiative, inclination, taste, and need from the provision of goods and services. This tendency is liberating if the available resources and techniques are used for freeing the individual from labor and recreation which are required for the reproduction of the established institutions but are parasitic, wasteful, and dehumanizing in terms of the existing technical and intellectual capabilities. The same tendency often gratifies hostility.

(2) The conditions of crowding, noise, and overtness characteristic of mass society. As René Dubos has said, the need for "quiet, privacy, independence, initiative, and some open space" are not "frills or luxuries but constitute real biological necessities." Their lack injures the instinctual structure itself. Freud has emphasized the "asocial" character of Eros - the mass society achieves an "oversocialization" to which the individual reacts "with all sorts of frustrations, repressions, aggressions, and fears which soon develop into genuine neuroses."

I mentioned, as the most conspicuous social mobilization of aggressiveness, the militarization of the affluent society. This mobilization goes far beyond the actual draft of man-power and the buildup of the armament industry: its truly totalitarian aspects show forth in the daily mass media which feed "public opinion." The brutalization of language and image, the presentation of killing, burning, and poisoning and torture inflicted upon the victims of neocolonial slaughter is made in a common-sensible, factual, sometimes humorous style which integrates these horrors with the pranks of juvenile delinquents, football contests, accidents, stock market reports, and the weatherman. This is no longer the "classical" heroizing of killing in the national interest, but rather its reduction to the level of natural events and contingencies of daily life.

The consequence is a "psychological habituation of war" which is administered to a people protected from the actuality of war, a people who, by virtue of this habituation, easily familiarizes itself with the "kill rate" as it is already familiar with other "rates" (such as those of business or traffic or unemployment). The people are conditioned to live "with the hazards, the brutalities, and the mounting casualties of the war in Vietnam, just as one learns gradually to live with the everyday hazards and casualties of smoking, of smog, or of traffic." [1] The photos which appear in the daily newspapers and in magazines with mass circulation, often in nice and glossy color, show rows of prisoners laid out or stood up for "interrogation," little children dragged through the dust behind armored cars, mutilated women. They are nothing new ("such things happen in a war"), but it is the setting that makes the difference: their appearance in the regular program, in togetherness with the commercials, sports, local politics, and reports on the social set. And the brutality of power is further normalized by its extension to the beloved automobile: the manufacturers sell a Thunderbird, Fury, Tempest, and the oil industry puts "a tiger in your tank."

However, the administered language is rigidly discriminating: a specific vocabulary of hate, resentment, and defamation is reserved for opposition to the aggressive policies and for the enemy. The pattern constantly repeats itself. Thus, when students demonstrate against the war, it is a "mob" swelled by "bearded advocates of sexual freedom," by unwashed juveniles, and by "hoodlums and street urchins" who "tramp" the streets, while the counterdemonstrations consist of citizens who gather. In Vietnam, "typical criminal communist violence" is perpetrated against American "strategic operations." The Reds have the impertinence to launch "a sneak attack" (presumably they are supposed to announce it beforehand and to deploy in the open); they are "evading a death trap" (presumably they should have stayed in). The Vietcong attack American barracks "in the dead of night" and kill American boys (presumably, Americans only attack in broad daylight, don't disturb the sleep of the enemy, and don't kill Vietnamese boys). The massacre of hundred thousands of communists (in Indonesia) is called "impressive" - a comparable "killing rate" suffered by the other side would hardly have been honored with such an adjective. To the Chinese, the presence of American troops in East Asia is a threat to their "ideology," while presumably the presence of Chinese troops in Central or South America would be a real, and not only ideological, threat to the United States.

The loaded language proceeds according to the Orwellian recipe of the identity of opposites: in the mouth of the enemy, peace means war, and defense is attack, while on the righteous side, escalation is restraint, and saturation bombing prepares for peace. Organized in this discriminatory fashion, language designates a priori the enemy as evil in his entirety and in all his actions and intentions.

Such mobilization of aggressiveness cannot be explained by the magnitude of the communist threat: the image of the ostensible enemy is inflated out of all proportion to reality. What is at stake is rather the continued stability and growth of a system which is threatened by its own irrationality - by the narrow base on which its prosperity rests, by the dehumanization which its wasteful and parasitic affluence demands. The senseless war is itself part of this irrationality and thus of the essence of the system. What may have been a minor involvement at the beginning, almost an accident, a contingency of foreign policy, has become a test case for the productivity, competitiveness, and prestige of the whole. The billions of dollars spent for the war effort are a political as well as economic stimulus (or cure): a big way of absorbing part of the economic surplus, and of keeping the people in line. Defeat in Vietnam may well be the signal for other wars of liberation closer to home - and perhaps even for rebellion at home.

To be sure, the social utilization of aggressiveness belongs to the historical structure of civilization and has been a powerful vehicle of progress. However, here too, there is a stage where quantity may turn into quality and subvert the normal balance between the two primary instincts in favor of destruction. I mentioned the "bogey man" of automation. In fact the real spectre for the affluent society is the possible reduction of labor to a level where the human organism need no longer function as an instrument of labor. The mere quantitative decline in needed human labor power militates against the maintenance of the capitalist mode of production (as of all other exploitative modes of production). The system reacts by stepping up the production of goods and services which either do not enlarge individual consumption at all, or enlarge it with luxuries - luxuries in the face of persistent poverty, but luxuries which are necessities for occupying a labor force sufficient to reproduce the established economic and political institutions. To the degree to which this sort of work appears as superfluous, senseless, and unnecessary while necessary for earning a living, frustration is built into the very productivity of this society, and aggressiveness is activated. And to the degree to which the society in its very structure becomes aggressive, the mental structure of its citizens adjusts itself: the individual becomes at one and the same time more aggressive and more pliable and submissive, for he submits by a society which, by virtue of its affluence and power, satisfies his deepest (and otherwise greatly repressed) instinctual needs. And these instinctual needs apparently find their libidinal reflection in the representatives of the people. the chairman of the Armed Services Committee of the United States Senate, Senator Russell of Georgia, was struck by this fact. He is quoted as saying:

There is something about preparing for destruction that causes men to be more careless in spending money than they would be if they were building for constructive purposes. Why that is, I do not know; but I have observed, over a period of almost thirty years in the Senate, that there is something about buying arms with which to kill, to destroy, to wipe out cities, and to obliterate great transportation systems which causes men not to reckon the dollar cost as closely as they do when they think about proper housing and the care of the health of human beings. [2]

I have argued elsewhere the question of how one can possibly gauge and historically compare the aggression prevalent in a specific society; instead of restating the case, I want now to focus on different aspects, on the specific forms in which aggression today is released and satisfied.

The most telling one, and the one which distinguishes the new from the traditional forms, is what I call technological aggression and satisfaction. The phenomenon is quickly described: the act of aggression is physically carried out by a mechanism with a high degree of automatism, of far greater power than the individual human being who sets it in motion, keeps it in motion, and determines its end or target. The most extreme case is the rocket or missile; the most ordinary example the automobile. This means that the energy, the power activated and consummated is the mechanical, electrical, or nuclear energy of "things" rather than the instinctual energy of a human being. Aggression is, as it were, transferred from a subject to an object, or is at least "mediated" by an object, and the target is destroyed by a thing rather than by a person. This change in the relation between human and material energy, and between the physical and mental part of aggression (man becomes the subject and agent of aggression by virtue of his mental rather than physical faculties) must also affect the mental dynamic. I submit a hypothesis which is suggested by the inner logic of the process: with the "delegation" of destruction to a more or less automated thing or group and system of things, the instinctual satisfaction of the human person is "interrupted," reduced, frustrated, "super-sublimated." And such frustration makes for repetition and escalation: increasing violence, speed, enlarged scope. At the same time, personal responsibility, conscience, and the sense of guilt is weakened, or rather diffused, displaced from the actual context in which the aggression was committed (i.e. bombing raids), and relocated in a more or less innocuous context (impoliteness, sexual inadequacy, etc.). In this reaction too, the effect is a considerable weakening of the sense of guilt, and the defense (hatred, resentment) is also redirected from the real responsible subject (the commanding officer, the government) to a substitute person: not I as a (morally and physically) acting person did it, but the thing, the machine. The machine: the word suggests that an apparatus consisting of human beings may be substituted for the mechanical apparatus: the bureaucracy, the administration, the party, or organization is the responsible agent; I, the individual person, was only the instrumentality. And an instrument cannot, in any moral sense, be responsible or be in a state of guilt. In this way, another barrier against aggression, which civilization had erected in a long and violent process of discipline is removed. And the expansion of advanced capitalism becomes involved in a fateful psychical dialectic which enters into and propels its economic and political dynamic: the more powerful and "technological" aggression becomes, the less is it apt to satisfy and pacify the primary impulse, and the more it tends toward repetition and escalation.

To be sure, the use of instruments of aggression is as old as civilization itself, but there is a decisive difference between technological aggression and the more primitive forms. The latter were not only quantitatively different (weaker): they required activation and engagement of the body to a much higher degree than the automated or semiautomated instruments of aggression. The knife, the "blunt instrument," even the revolver are far more "part" of the individual who uses them and they associate him more closely with his target. Moreover, and most important, their use, unless effectively sublimated and in the service of the life instincts (as in the case of the surgeon, household, etc.), is criminal - individual crime - and as such subject to severe punishment. In contrast, technological aggression is not a crime. The speeding driver of an automobile or motor boat is not called a murderer even if he is one; and certainly the missile-firing engineers are not.

Technological aggression releases a mental dynamic which aggravates the destructive, antierotic tendencies of the puritan complex. The new modes of aggression destroy without getting one's hands dirty, one's body soiled, one's mind incriminated. The killer remains clean, physically as well as mentally. The purity of his deadly work obtains added sanction if it is directed against the national enemy in the national interest.

The (anonymous) lead article in Les Temps Modernes (January 1966) links the war in Vietnam with the puritan tradition in the United States. The image of the enemy is that of dirt in its most repulsive forms; the unclean jungle is his natural habitat, disembowelment and beheading are his natural ways of action. Consequently, the burning of his refuge, defoliation, and the poisoning of his foodstuff are not only strategic but also moral operations: removing of contagious dirt, clearing the way for the order of political hygiene and righteousness. And the mass purging of the good conscience from all rational inhibitions leads to the atrophy of the last rebellion of sanity against the madhouse: no satire, no ridicule attends the moralists who organize and defend the crime. Thus one of them can, without becoming a laughingstock, publicly praise as the "greatest performance in our nation's history," the indeed historical achievement of the richest, most powerful, and most advanced country of the world unleashing the destructive force of its technical superiority on one of the poorest, weakest, and most helpless countries of the world.

The decline of responsibility and guilt, their absorption by the omnipotent technical and political apparatus also tends to invalidate other values which were to restrain and sublimate aggression. While the militarization of society remains the most conspicuous and destructive manifestation of this tendency, its less ostensible effects in the cultural dimension should not be minimized. One of these effects is the disintegration of the value of truth. The media enjoy a large dispensation from the commitment to truth, and in a very special way. The point is not that the media lie ("lie" presupposes commitment to truth), they rather mingle truth and half-truth with omission, factual reporting with commentary and evaluation, information with publicity and propaganda - all this made into an overwhelming whole through editorializing. The editorially unpleasant truths (and how many of the most decisive truths are not unpleasant?) retreat between the lines, or hide, or mingle harmoniously with nonsense, fun, and so-called human interest stories. And the consumer is readily inclined to take all this for granted - he buys it even if he knows better. Now the commitment to the truth has always been precarious, hedged with strong qualifications, suspended, or suppressed - it is only in the context of the general and democratic activation of aggressiveness that the devaluation of truth assumes special significance. For truth is a value in the strict sense inasmuch as it serves the protection and amelioration of life, as a guide in man's struggle with nature and with himself, with his own weakness and his own destructiveness. In this function, truth is indeed a matter of the sublimated life instincts, Eros, of intelligence becoming responsible and autonomous, striving to liberate life from dependence on unmastered and repressive forces. And with respect to this protective and liberating function of truth, its devaluation removes another effective barrier against destruction.

The encroachment of aggression on the domain of the life instincts also devalues the aesthetic dimension. In Eros and Civilization I have tried to show the erotic component in this dimension. Nonfunctional, that is to say, not committed to the functioning of a repressive society, the aesthetic values have been strong protectors of Eros in civilization. Nature is part of this dimension. Eros seeks, in polymorphous forms, its own sensuous world of fulfillment, its own "natural" environment. But only in a protected world - protected from daily business, from noise, crowds, waste, only thus can it satisfy the biological need for happiness. The aggressive business practices which turn ever more spaces of protective nature into a medium of commercial fulfillment and fun thus do not merely offend beauty - they repress biological necessities.

Once we agree to discuss the hypothesis that, in advanced industrial society surplus-aggression is released in quite unsuspected and "normal" behavior, we may see it even in areas which are far removed from the more familiar manifestations of aggression, for instance the style of publicity and information practiced by the mass media. Characteristic is the permanent repetition: the same commercial with the same text or picture broadcast or televised again and again; the same phrases and clichés poured out by the purveyors and makers of information again and again; the same programs and platforms professed by the politicians again and again. Freud arrived at his concept of the death instinct in the context of his analysis of the "repetition compulsion": he associated with it the striving for a state of complete inertia, absence of tension, return to the womb, annihilation. Hitler knew well the extreme function of repetition: the biggest lie, often enough repeated, will be acted upon and accepted as truth. Even in its less extreme use, constant repetition, imposed upon more or less captive audiences, may be destructive: destroying mental autonomy, freedom of thought, responsibility and conducive to inertia, submission, rejection of change. The established society, the master of repetition, becomes the great womb for its citizens. To be sure, this road to inertia and this reduction of tension is one of high and not very satisfactory sublimation: it does not lead to an instinctual nirvana of satisfaction. However, it may well reduce the stress of intelligence, the pain and tension which accompany autonomous mental activity - thus it may be an effective aggression against the mind in its socially disturbing, critical functions.

These are highly speculative hypotheses on the socially and mentally fateful character of aggression in our society. Aggression is (in most cases) socially useful destructiveness - and yet fateful because of its self-propelling character and scope. In this respect too, it is badly sublimated and not very satisfying. If Freud's theory is correct, and the destructive impulse strives for the annihilation of the individual's own life no matter how long the "detour" via other lives and targets, then we may indeed speak of a suicidal tendency on a truly social scale, and the national and international play with total destruction may well have found a firm basis in the instinctual structure of individuals.


Interesting stuff, mojoman.  Is it Marcuse?  Or the Unabomber Manifesto?"



Marcuse. does anything get past you?

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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #7581 - Sep 20th, 2009 at 3:35pm
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Brainbell Jangler wrote on Sep 20th, 2009 at 3:03pm:
fuman wrote on Sep 20th, 2009 at 2:57pm:
On September 11, 2001, some three thousand Americans were killed by terrorists; our country has spent hundreds of billions of dollars to make sure it doesn't happen again. But that same year, and every year since then, some twenty thousand Americans died because they couldn't get health care. That doesn't happen in any other developed country. Hundreds of thousands of Americans go bankrupt every year because of medical bills. That doesn't happen in any other developed country, either.

As terrible as that is, the new figures (released a day or two ago) are even worse:  45,000 deaths annually in this country due to lack of medical insurance.  Yes, we have terrific medical care for those who can afford it; we just pay twice as much as any other country for that privilege.  Meanwhile, we sacrifice a human life every 12 minutes on the altar of Riffy's soulless idol, Unfettered Capitalism.



I found that comment on Kos, and just cut and paste it here.

45,000 a year is a tragic statement on our priorities. 45,000 a decade is too much.

Capitalism is not doing the planet any favors either. We're something like 5 percent of the global population and using 25 percent of the resources, which we strong arm from developing nations when possible. Now I hear that China is looking into green technologies in a big way. I don't think this is due to an outcry from China's citizens motivating them.

Also, I'm pretty sure they don't have a majority of citizens who believe their God will return to take them to paradise when they destroy the eco-systems on this planet.
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #7582 - Sep 20th, 2009 at 3:55pm
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nankerphelge wrote on Sep 19th, 2009 at 3:20pm:
Nice quote - one of my favorites!


I cried my eyes out. So we're all dogfaces, we're all very, very different, but there is one thing that we all have in common: we were all stupid enough to enlist in the Army. We're mutants. There's something wrong with us, something very, very wrong with us. Something seriously wrong with us - we're soldiers. But we're American soldiers! We've been kicking ass for 200 years! We're 10 and 1! Now we don't have to worry about whether or not we practiced. We don't have to worry about whether Captain Stillman wants to have us hung. All we have to do is to be the great American fighting soldier that is inside each one of us. Now do what I do, and say what I say. And make me proud.

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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #7583 - Sep 20th, 2009 at 3:56pm
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Some Guy wrote on Sep 20th, 2009 at 3:55pm:
nankerphelge wrote on Sep 19th, 2009 at 3:20pm:
Nice quote - one of my favorites!


I cried my eyes out. So we're all dogfaces, we're all very, very different, but there is one thing that we all have in common: we were all stupid enough to enlist in the Army. We're mutants. There's something wrong with us, something very, very wrong with us. Something seriously wrong with us - we're soldiers. But we're American soldiers! We've been kicking ass for 200 years! We're 10 and 1! Now we don't have to worry about whether or not we practiced. We don't have to worry about whether Captain Stillman wants to have us hung. All we have to do is to be the great American fighting soldier that is inside each one of us. Now do what I do, and say what I say. And make me proud.




RIM
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #7584 - Sep 20th, 2009 at 6:42pm
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Brainbell Jangler wrote on Sep 20th, 2009 at 3:03pm:
fuman wrote on Sep 20th, 2009 at 2:57pm:
On September 11, 2001, some three thousand Americans were killed by terrorists; our country has spent hundreds of billions of dollars to make sure it doesn't happen again. But that same year, and every year since then, some twenty thousand Americans died because they couldn't get health care. That doesn't happen in any other developed country. Hundreds of thousands of Americans go bankrupt every year because of medical bills. That doesn't happen in any other developed country, either.

As terrible as that is, the new figures (released a day or two ago) are even worse:  45,000 deaths annually in this country due to lack of medical insurance.  Yes, we have terrific medical care for those who can afford it; we just pay twice as much as any other country for that privilege.  Meanwhile, we sacrifice a human life every 12 minutes on the altar of Riffy's soulless idol, Unfettered Capitalism.




This is why arguing with true believers in socialism is so redundant. You call my belief in free markets solutions as "soulless", yet you completely ignore the utter soullessness of your own tried and failed system of socialism throughout history! Your way of thinking does not lead to any kind of social justice at all! On the contrary. Handing over the entire health care system to the federal government would be the single largest surrender of personal liberty, and the single largest ever government expansion in this nation's history. To a true believer that does not matter! Only you guys have the right answers, is that it? You want to force an unbelievably huge bureaucratic nightmare and an economic black hole onto every citizen of this country. Anyone that offers any objection to the massive socialist boondoggle is labeled a racist, an ignorant Bible thumper, a Faux News watcher!!! booo hiiiissss... the epithets go on and on. Anything to discredit and marginalize the growing number of Americans who are screaming, "Stop!"


You argue that some liberal policy would prove your Harvard educated genius and liberal, hemp wearing, patchouli dosed way of progressive thinking. (We can play on stereotypes, right?) I mean, after all, it is the only obvious answer. Yet at the same time you ignore hundreds of years of history, and even current evidence that proves your fantasy is just that. A pure statist liberal fantasy that has been tried over and over again with the same dismal results. Look at those health care facts again BJ. Things ain't looking too peachy on the cancer front in the UK or Canada survival wise. Obama's gonna get it right though. Right.

See, liberal statists all believe the same thing. If we just had more money we could fund Nirvana. So they do what they have done for hundreds of years. They promise great benefit to everyone fairly, but they, and only they, determine what is fair. Wealth is destroyed, profit incentive is taxed through the roof, jobs wash up, and the economy tanks. Liberals don't want to help the "little guy" up! They want us all in the same hole that he's in, the little guy that is, not the statist of course. In the case of Obama, and all of those that support him, the farther left the better. To push back against this insanity is ridiculed by the statists. The typical playing of the race card is obvious, but less so, and equally repulsive, is the elitist snobbery that is so pervasive in today's liberal.

Medicaid is a broken system. There is no arguing that. Medicaid and Medicare are funded trillions per year and the money is never enough. So what does Obama propose? A system that would dwarf them in it's funding and the massive taxation that comes with it. It would offer markedly inferior service while tied up in bureaucratic boards and cost to benefit ratio funding panels. This is the liberal/socialist reality in every country where this idiocy has been tried. It never ends good. However, Obama's gonna get it right. We must trust him. I mean he did tell us that the time for "bickering" was over. He want's it, and he gets it.


So I offer up facts that prove unequivocally that not only does the USA invent more lifesaving procedures, and innovative equipment than any other country in the world. But that our population benefits to a larger degree than in any other developed country. Cancer rate? The USA wins across the board, rich or poor. The USA's survivability rate tops that of any of the country's listed on BJ's UN list. Yes, liberals, even poor people get better care in the USA than they do in the UK or Canada.

Currently Medicaid is quickly going bankrupt because of government mismanagement. Same goes for Medicare. Liberals answer is to just throw more money at it, and tax the rich! Spread the misery! Force us to sign up or penalize us if we don't through taxes and fines. Please liberals, any of you, please explain to me how any of this madness can be justified within the US Constitution. This is nothing short of a soft tyranny, and the American people are voicing their well informed voices against it loader and more often as the idiocy persists.


It doesn't take a genius to see when their own individual liberty is at risk at the hands of ever growing centralized government, but apparently it takes a fool, and a jackass, to ignore it while it happens before his very eyes.



Riffy
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...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&"When all government...in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided...” Thomas Jefferson&&&&"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases." — Thomas Jefferson&&&&&&&&We're not old men.We don't bother about petty morals--Keef&&&&Actually, it only takes one drink to get me loaded. Trouble is, I can't remember if it's the thirteenth or fourteenth. &&-- George Burns&&&&&&I ain't no leftist!-Bob Dylan&&&&"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce
 
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #7585 - Sep 20th, 2009 at 7:35pm
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Riffhard wrote on Sep 20th, 2009 at 2:18pm:
Huh, Pdog you may want to check your sources my man.


Here. This is directly from the website that I linked to, and yes, those numbers are
FACTS!!!!
*


Sucks to be on the losing end of a lame assed liberal/statist argument, but there you have it. You're wrong. You believe the government is the end all be all of all things good and proper. The fact that history has proven over and over again ad naseum that you are flat wrong. Not only are you wrong, but you are horribly wrong. The data that I provided can not be argued by anyone that is intellectually honest as they are facts. You, and your cohorts, are never, and will never, be even close to intellectually honset. Never!


*The National Center for Policy Analysis (NCPA) is a nonprofit, nonpartisan public policy research organization, established in 1983. The NCPA's goal is to develop and promote private alternatives to government regulation and control, solving problems by relying on the strength of the competitive, entrepreneurial private sector. Topics include reforms in health care, taxes, Social Security, welfare, criminal justice, education and environmental regulation.



Riffy


Do you know what a conservative think tank is? Do you know what a liberal think tanks is... They focus on conservative issues... you may be confused by semantics... you can be conservative, and call yourself non-partisan... Republican would be partisan, conservative it not a political party... I know words are sometimes interchangeable, but in this case they aren't. I'm not a democrat, you can say i'm a liberal, so by defintion, I'm able to be non-partisan in politics... keep up homey... You saying, and copying and pasting what they describe themselves is is not lie, I didn't say it was, I also clearly told you, that I beleive their facts, I just think they cherry picked a few. Now, how about you do some real, research, and not your conservative think tank copy and paste. How about you tell me how the USA compares to the top 10 countries who provide the best healthcare, universally... can you do that? I already know you can't and won't... it would require real research on intelectual thought... shut up, you're a liar!!! you just lied in your response to me, by bulding this fake argument.... your hostility is fucking boring too! do you have a real debate... or just going to tell me how bad Canada is regarding boobs?
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #7586 - Sep 20th, 2009 at 8:34pm
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Pdog wrote on Sep 20th, 2009 at 7:35pm:
Riffhard wrote on Sep 20th, 2009 at 2:18pm:
Huh, Pdog you may want to check your sources my man.


Here. This is directly from the website that I linked to, and yes, those numbers are
FACTS!!!!
*


Sucks to be on the losing end of a lame assed liberal/statist argument, but there you have it. You're wrong. You believe the government is the end all be all of all things good and proper. The fact that history has proven over and over again ad naseum that you are flat wrong. Not only are you wrong, but you are horribly wrong. The data that I provided can not be argued by anyone that is intellectually honest as they are facts. You, and your cohorts, are never, and will never, be even close to intellectually honset. Never!


*The National Center for Policy Analysis (NCPA) is a nonprofit, nonpartisan public policy research organization, established in 1983. The NCPA's goal is to develop and promote private alternatives to government regulation and control, solving problems by relying on the strength of the competitive, entrepreneurial private sector. Topics include reforms in health care, taxes, Social Security, welfare, criminal justice, education and environmental regulation.



Riffy


Do you know what a conservative think tank is? Do you know what a liberal think tanks is... They focus on conservative issues... you may be confused by semantics... you can be conservative, and call yourself non-partisan... Republican would be partisan, conservative it not a political party... I know words are sometimes interchangeable, but in this case they aren't. I'm not a democrat, you can say i'm a liberal, so by defintion, I'm able to be non-partisan in politics... keep up homey... You saying, and copying and pasting what they describe themselves is is not lie, I didn't say it was, I also clearly told you, that I beleive their facts, I just think they cherry picked a few. Now, how about you do some real, research, and not your conservative think tank copy and paste. How about you tell me how the USA compares to the top 10 countries who provide the best healthcare, universally... can you do that? I already know you can't and won't... it would require real research on intelectual thought... shut up, you're a liar!!! you just lied in your response to me, by bulding this fake argument.... your hostility is fucking boring too! do you have a real debate... or just going to tell me how bad Canada is regarding boobs?




The only hostility on display here lately is coming from you Pdog so spare me the lecture on board manners. Now as to the partisanship of the site that I linked. Well, as BJ pointed out, there is clearly some bias for the conservative position on the website that I cited. I will cop to that misrepresentation-unintentional though it was. However there is no link between the NCPA and the RNC. So I should have just noted that the site was non-partisan. You're attack of the site though is a very clever way of ignoring the facts that are sourced in my post. The facts are indisputable, and irrefutable regardless of where they come from. They are based on actual numbers in the real world. I guess that you consider a boob job in Canada to be equivalent to the cancer survival rate of the Western world, but most fair minded non-partisan types see a huge difference. How else do you explain independants and moderates fleeing from the Obama health care position? Obama, and the Democrats, are now in a position to take over a full one fifth of the economy, and people like you just cheer them on without even looking at facts, evidence, and current data that prove beyond any doubt just how damaging that will be to our way of life and our individual unalienable rights. You don't care! Your statist agenda is perfectly clear. If you have to you will attack the messenger of dissent.  


"Trust in Obama! All must trust in Obama!!! Oh, and by the way, I'm not a member of any political party so I'm non partisan! Just shut the hell up and hand over 20% of the entire US economy and free market to the same band of idiots that busted Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and every other institution that the people were gullible enough to trust them with! Hello Fannie and Freddie! We must do it now!! If you don't trust Obama that only proves that you are a racist!!!"


I present you with facts, and you present that kind of asinine rebuttal.



Riffy
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« Last Edit: Sep 20th, 2009 at 8:36pm by Riffhard »  

...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&"When all government...in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided...” Thomas Jefferson&&&&"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases." — Thomas Jefferson&&&&&&&&We're not old men.We don't bother about petty morals--Keef&&&&Actually, it only takes one drink to get me loaded. Trouble is, I can't remember if it's the thirteenth or fourteenth. &&-- George Burns&&&&&&I ain't no leftist!-Bob Dylan&&&&"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce
 
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #7587 - Sep 20th, 2009 at 11:14pm
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could barry bring lantern back?
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #7588 - Sep 20th, 2009 at 11:52pm
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Please don't mistake my relative silence-as-contempt for anything different than hostility, riffy.  Pdog ain't the only one digusted with your anti-Americanism.   Pinochet would be proud of you.
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #7589 - Sep 21st, 2009 at 12:58am
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lotsajizz wrote on Sep 20th, 2009 at 11:52pm:
Please don't mistake my relative silence-as-contempt for anything different than hostility, riffy.  Pdog ain't the only one digusted with your anti-Americanism.   Pinochet would be proud of you.




LOL! You go comrade! Just trust Obama! He knows! Don't be a racist! Just agree with him and nobody will suspect you're a racist! That about right jizzy?


You defending far left hard core socialism and calling me anti-American is classic.
Hey Jizzy what do you think that we should nationalize after health care? What other industry could we just hand directly over to the government? C'mon comrade, give it some thought. What else can we give the state? It's all for the good of the people after all!


If you believe in what Barry is pushing jizzy, you haven't a clue what it means to be pro-American so quit trying to lecture me!




"Democracy extends the sphere of individual freedom, socialism restricts it.
Democracy attaches all possible value to each man;
socialism makes each man a mere agent, a mere number.
Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word: equality.
But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty,
socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." 

Alexis de Tocqueville   



Oh, and here's another brilliant quote from de Tocqueville given the ineptness of Obama, and today's Democrat party. Only problem here is that there are too many blinders-on drones that refuse to see or acknowledge what's happening right in front of them.


"The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money”

Alexis de Tocqueville




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...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&"When all government...in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided...” Thomas Jefferson&&&&"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases." — Thomas Jefferson&&&&&&&&We're not old men.We don't bother about petty morals--Keef&&&&Actually, it only takes one drink to get me loaded. Trouble is, I can't remember if it's the thirteenth or fourteenth. &&-- George Burns&&&&&&I ain't no leftist!-Bob Dylan&&&&"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce
 
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #7590 - Sep 21st, 2009 at 6:34am
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Riffy, I think the drought is over, Lanier should be full by now.
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #7591 - Sep 21st, 2009 at 7:51am
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You go comrade jizzy!

You know what you get if you take out the third, fifth, sixth, and seventh letters of the title of the magazine you're reading.

R-E-D Digest!
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #7592 - Sep 21st, 2009 at 8:01am
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Riffhard wrote on Sep 20th, 2009 at 8:34pm:
Pdog wrote on Sep 20th, 2009 at 7:35pm:
Riffhard wrote on Sep 20th, 2009 at 2:18pm:
Huh, Pdog you may want to check your sources my man.


Here. This is directly from the website that I linked to, and yes, those numbers are
FACTS!!!!
*


Sucks to be on the losing end of a lame assed liberal/statist argument, but there you have it. You're wrong. You believe the government is the end all be all of all things good and proper. The fact that history has proven over and over again ad naseum that you are flat wrong. Not only are you wrong, but you are horribly wrong. The data that I provided can not be argued by anyone that is intellectually honest as they are facts. You, and your cohorts, are never, and will never, be even close to intellectually honset. Never!


*The National Center for Policy Analysis (NCPA) is a nonprofit, nonpartisan public policy research organization, established in 1983. The NCPA's goal is to develop and promote private alternatives to government regulation and control, solving problems by relying on the strength of the competitive, entrepreneurial private sector. Topics include reforms in health care, taxes, Social Security, welfare, criminal justice, education and environmental regulation.



Riffy


Do you know what a conservative think tank is? Do you know what a liberal think tanks is... They focus on conservative issues... you may be confused by semantics... you can be conservative, and call yourself non-partisan... Republican would be partisan, conservative it not a political party... I know words are sometimes interchangeable, but in this case they aren't. I'm not a democrat, you can say i'm a liberal, so by defintion, I'm able to be non-partisan in politics... keep up homey... You saying, and copying and pasting what they describe themselves is is not lie, I didn't say it was, I also clearly told you, that I beleive their facts, I just think they cherry picked a few. Now, how about you do some real, research, and not your conservative think tank copy and paste. How about you tell me how the USA compares to the top 10 countries who provide the best healthcare, universally... can you do that? I already know you can't and won't... it would require real research on intelectual thought... shut up, you're a liar!!! you just lied in your response to me, by bulding this fake argument.... your hostility is fucking boring too! do you have a real debate... or just going to tell me how bad Canada is regarding boobs?




The only hostility on display here lately is coming from you Pdog so spare me the lecture on board manners. Now as to the partisanship of the site that I linked. Well, as BJ pointed out, there is clearly some bias for the conservative position on the website that I cited. I will cop to that misrepresentation-unintentional though it was. However there is no link between the NCPA and the RNC. So I should have just noted that the site was non-partisan. You're attack of the site though is a very clever way of ignoring the facts that are sourced in my post. The facts are indisputable, and irrefutable regardless of where they come from. They are based on actual numbers in the real world. I guess that you consider a boob job in Canada to be equivalent to the cancer survival rate of the Western world, but most fair minded non-partisan types see a huge difference. How else do you explain independants and moderates fleeing from the Obama health care position? Obama, and the Democrats, are now in a position to take over a full one fifth of the economy, and people like you just cheer them on without even looking at facts, evidence, and current data that prove beyond any doubt just how damaging that will be to our way of life and our individual unalienable rights. You don't care! Your statist agenda is perfectly clear. If you have to you will attack the messenger of dissent.  


"Trust in Obama! All must trust in Obama!!! Oh, and by the way, I'm not a member of any political party so I'm non partisan! Just shut the hell up and hand over 20% of the entire US economy and free market to the same band of idiots that busted Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and every other institution that the people were gullible enough to trust them with! Hello Fannie and Freddie! We must do it now!! If you don't trust Obama that only proves that you are a racist!!!"


I present you with facts, and you present that kind of asinine rebuttal.



Riffy


I didn't refute your facts , I didn't even try to, I pointed out they were partial numbers and left out many countries. that's it "chery picked". I asked you for full facts regarding the top ten countries...
And the head of the conservative think tank, is a former Republican Governor... does it mean anything, no. Can you see this group consisting of liberals?
I ask you, how many former Democrats are there? This is a group, who doesn't look for solutions to air pollution, they try to create science to refute climante change. They do not seek healthcare solutions through free markets, they spend millions to refute Michaels Moore's movie Sicko. These free market soltions you claim, are unregulated industries, who are exempt from responsibilties the citizens are beholden too, they can bypass the very laws that an average american has to face and can not overcome to prosper. So save me this free market bullshit, you defend the very idea that seeks it's own tax breaks and you pay for. I find it hysterical you support the very thought and practice that seeks to succeed on your labor. The middle class income has dropped over the past ten years, as a direct result of giving this idea of free market capitlism zero regulation. And what has gone up for me an you? Healthcare costs, premiums, co=pays and RX drug costs. We're paying more across the board, maybe you're not... we are!!! I do not just think, I know that this is wrong, and will bankrupt millions in a few years, just b/c they are sick. And that will severly weaken our country. This isn't just social justice, this is national security!!!

I love it that you say I'm the hostile one, thanks for making my monday morning... You're not even having the conversation as me... Do you really beleive the information you posted, is the be all say all on this topic? Absoltism, authoritarian... I have no problem with what you think you know, it's that you think you know it all... There's a difference! I don't even care if you change your position, and I'm not saying you have to or that you're wrong for your beliefs. I do think you use horrible misleading sources for info, which in many cases have not only be proven misleading, in some cases flat out wrong and in some cases it's intentional lies.
We need you on the ACORN stuff, go take them down. Got no problem with that... They do some good work, but got some real fucked up people ripping off and doing really illegal and immoral stuff...
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #7593 - Sep 21st, 2009 at 10:26am
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As long as your attempt to lecture continue, Mr. Riffhard, you in turn will be schooled.
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #7594 - Sep 21st, 2009 at 10:33am
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Riffhard wrote on Sep 21st, 2009 at 12:58am:



Oh, and here's another brilliant quote from de Tocqueville given the ineptness of Obama, and today's Democrat party. Only problem here is that there are too many blinders-on drones that refuse to see or acknowledge what's happening right in front of them.


"The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money”

Alexis de Tocqueville



Riffy


...

Alexis de Tocqueville?  Well, after you embraced Camille Paglia
as your new standard bearer, I guess nothing should surprise me.

Wonderful use of de Tocqueville, a largely discredited 19th-century
thinker writing about America (pre-Industrial Revolution, pre-Civil
war, in fact a nation which bears little resembance to America today)
from the viewpoint of a Frenchman, to uphold the equally antiquated
and disproven ideals of today's GOP.

Like most of the historical figures whose thoughts you bend to your
own notions, de Tocqueville said a LOT of stuff. Howe do you feel
about THESE quotes?

"What is most important for democracy is not that great fortunes should not exist, but that great fortunes should not remain in the same hands. In that way there are rich men, but they do not form a class."

Whoa - REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH??   Mr. Riffhard, I can't
believe you would quote this commie!

"As one digs deeper into the national character of the Americans, one sees that they have sought the value of everything in this world only in the answer to this single question: how much money will it bring in?"  Well, that much hasn't changed. I don't think Monsieur de T was saying that he admired that trait.

De Tocqueville was precient in many ways.  He foresaw your desire
to cling to the status quo:  

"I cannot help fearing that men may reach a point where they look on every new theory as a danger, every innovation as a toilsome trouble, every social advance as a first step toward revolution, and that they may absolutely refuse to move at all."
 

And was he writing about THIS thread when he said:

"I know of no country in which there is so little independence of mind and real freedom of discussion as in America" ?

One more:  

"All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it. "  

Now, WHO was it who started TWO wars without any thought of how they might end?  Or how they would be paid for?











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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #7595 - Sep 21st, 2009 at 12:06pm
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Pdog wrote on Sep 21st, 2009 at 8:01am:
Riffhard wrote on Sep 20th, 2009 at 8:34pm:
Pdog wrote on Sep 20th, 2009 at 7:35pm:
Riffhard wrote on Sep 20th, 2009 at 2:18pm:
Huh, Pdog you may want to check your sources my man.


Here. This is directly from the website that I linked to, and yes, those numbers are
FACTS!!!!
*


Sucks to be on the losing end of a lame assed liberal/statist argument, but there you have it. You're wrong. You believe the government is the end all be all of all things good and proper. The fact that history has proven over and over again ad nauseum that you are flat wrong. Not only are you wrong, but you are horribly wrong. The data that I provided can not be argued by anyone that is intellectually honest as they are facts. You, and your cohorts, are never, and will never, be even close to intellectually honest. Never!


*The National Center for Policy Analysis (NCPA) is a nonprofit, nonpartisan public policy research organization, established in 1983. The NCPA's goal is to develop and promote private alternatives to government regulation and control, solving problems by relying on the strength of the competitive, entrepreneurial private sector. Topics include reforms in health care, taxes, Social Security, welfare, criminal justice, education and environmental regulation.



Riffy


Do you know what a conservative think tank is? Do you know what a liberal think tanks is... They focus on conservative issues... you may be confused by semantics... you can be conservative, and call yourself non-partisan... Republican would be partisan, conservative it not a political party... I know words are sometimes interchangeable, but in this case they aren't. I'm not a democrat, you can say i'm a liberal, so by defintion, I'm able to be non-partisan in politics... keep up homey... You saying, and copying and pasting what they describe themselves is is not lie, I didn't say it was, I also clearly told you, that I beleive their facts, I just think they cherry picked a few. Now, how about you do some real, research, and not your conservative think tank copy and paste. How about you tell me how the USA compares to the top 10 countries who provide the best healthcare, universally... can you do that? I already know you can't and won't... it would require real research on intelectual thought... shut up, you're a liar!!! you just lied in your response to me, by bulding this fake argument.... your hostility is fucking boring too! do you have a real debate... or just going to tell me how bad Canada is regarding boobs?




The only hostility on display here lately is coming from you Pdog so spare me the lecture on board manners. Now as to the partisanship of the site that I linked. Well, as BJ pointed out, there is clearly some bias for the conservative position on the website that I cited. I will cop to that misrepresentation-unintentional though it was. However there is no link between the NCPA and the RNC. So I should have just noted that the site was non-partisan. You're attack of the site though is a very clever way of ignoring the facts that are sourced in my post. The facts are indisputable, and irrefutable regardless of where they come from. They are based on actual numbers in the real world. I guess that you consider a boob job in Canada to be equivalent to the cancer survival rate of the Western world, but most fair minded non-partisan types see a huge difference. How else do you explain independants and moderates fleeing from the Obama health care position? Obama, and the Democrats, are now in a position to take over a full one fifth of the economy, and people like you just cheer them on without even looking at facts, evidence, and current data that prove beyond any doubt just how damaging that will be to our way of life and our individual unalienable rights. You don't care! Your statist agenda is perfectly clear. If you have to you will attack the messenger of dissent.  


"Trust in Obama! All must trust in Obama!!! Oh, and by the way, I'm not a member of any political party so I'm non partisan! Just shut the hell up and hand over 20% of the entire US economy and free market to the same band of idiots that busted Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and every other institution that the people were gullible enough to trust them with! Hello Fannie and Freddie! We must do it now!! If you don't trust Obama that only proves that you are a racist!!!"


I present you with facts, and you present that kind of asinine rebuttal.



Riffy


I didn't refute your facts , I didn't even try to, I pointed out they were partial numbers and left out many countries. that's it "chery picked". I asked you for full facts regarding the top ten countries...
And the head of the conservative think tank, is a former Republican Governor... does it mean anything, no. Can you see this group consisting of liberals?
I ask you, how many former Democrats are there? This is a group, who doesn't look for solutions to air pollution, they try to create science to refute climante change. They do not seek healthcare solutions through free markets, they spend millions to refute Michaels Moore's movie Sicko. These free market soltions you claim, are unregulated industries, who are exempt from responsibilties the citizens are beholden too, they can bypass the very laws that an average american has to face and can not overcome to prosper. So save me this free market bullshit, you defend the very idea that seeks it's own tax breaks and you pay for. I find it hysterical you support the very thought and practice that seeks to succeed on your labor. The middle class income has dropped over the past ten years, as a direct result of giving this idea of free market capitlism zero regulation. And what has gone up for me an you? Healthcare costs, premiums, co=pays and RX drug costs. We're paying more across the board, maybe you're not... we are!!! I do not just think, I know that this is wrong, and will bankrupt millions in a few years, just b/c they are sick. And that will severly weaken our country. This isn't just social justice, this is national security!!!

I love it that you say I'm the hostile one, thanks for making my monday morning... You're not even having the conversation as me... Do you really beleive the information you posted, is the be all say all on this topic? Absoltism, authoritarian... I have no problem with what you think you know, it's that you think you know it all... There's a difference! I don't even care if you change your position, and I'm not saying you have to or that you're wrong for your beliefs. I do think you use horrible misleading sources for info, which in many cases have not only be proven misleading, in some cases flat out wrong and in some cases it's intentional lies.
We need you on the ACORN stuff, go take them down. Got no problem with that... They do some good work, but got some real fucked up people ripping off and doing really illegal and immoral stuff...




You have no idea what the hell you are talking about!!! The health care industry is one of the most regulated industries in existence!! So too is the banking industry! The federal government already owns a huge chunk of the banking industry and now they want the entire health industry pie too! And some idiots that have zero concept of individual liberty are more than ready to hand it right over to them! Once liberty is lost is rarely regained, but that matters not to the statists drones.


"They don't offer any free market solutions!" Horseshit!! To date the Republicans, and various conservative Republicans, have offered up many ideas. Four specifically in fact! Do you know when the last time any Republican was in the White House? It was in April!!! Obama does not want any Republican input on this subject! Only moron drones believe that crap! He wants total control! You know Pdog, like the Clash tune! Well that's what Barry wants! Every single one of the Republican plans has been shot down by Pelosi, Reid, and Obama! How how about tort reform, as jostorm was mentioning?!?! Barry says no. Why? Because he's in bed with the trial lawyers! How about "portability"?! Pelosi says no! How about some massive tax breaks, or tax credits for those do pay for their own insurance?! Democrats say no! How about offering companies incentives in the form of tax breaks for covering their employers? Democrats say no! In fact their insane idea is to further tax employers that offer insurance!!! Want to explain that brilliant move, Pdog?!?! You can't! Because you haven't a clue as to what the hell you're talking about! You have become the "board contrarian". You offer up nothing but you dismiss anything that does not radically alter the very fabric of our democracy!


You offer nothing to this debate Pdog because you know so little other than what you want to believe. I give you facts. Not just "cherry picked" facts either! Some of the most important facts concerning health care in any country! Survivability rates on the world's most deadly diseases, and you try and refute them!! I mean you are aware that it is illegal to refuse medical treatment to anyone in this country, right? You know that?


Michael Moore's, Sicko?!?! Are you fucking kidding me?!?!?! Who gives a fuck what that fat lying fuck propagandist says anyway?! I'll tell ya what let me know when he goes down to Havana for his cardio bypass surgery that is no doubt in that useless fuck's future. Which brings us to another "cherry picked" fact about US health care. Which country performs more surgeries for foreigners? The USA ranks number one is elective surgery for foreign nationals! Why do you suppose that is? It's because we offer the best care, that's why!!!


The difference between you and I Pdog is that I, unlike you, read all the facts! All sides of the argument. Your side is losing the debate! You want to know why? It ain't got shit to do with racism! It ain't shit do with uninformed Faux News viewers! It hasn't even got a damned thing to do with the growing dislike of Obama. No, it has to do with the FACT that over 80% of Americans are happy with the health care that they receive! They may want some reform, in fact I certainly do, they just want the US government to get the hell out of their doctors office and their own choices. Obama wants to make the choice for them, and spend trillions more that he dosn't have. They, we, say go straight to hell!



Obama's health care is dead! It's not going to happen!



Riffy
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...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&"When all government...in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided...” Thomas Jefferson&&&&"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases." — Thomas Jefferson&&&&&&&&We're not old men.We don't bother about petty morals--Keef&&&&Actually, it only takes one drink to get me loaded. Trouble is, I can't remember if it's the thirteenth or fourteenth. &&-- George Burns&&&&&&I ain't no leftist!-Bob Dylan&&&&"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce
 
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #7596 - Sep 21st, 2009 at 12:16pm
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lotsajizz wrote on Sep 21st, 2009 at 10:26am:
As long as your attempt to lecture continue, Mr. Riffhard, you in turn will be schooled.




LOL! You offer nothing but snide comments. You haven't schooled anyone! Hey, the way I see it my argument has already been won. The American people have spoken out loudly and forcefully. They are on my side. So the drones loose! Great news for America!


Riffy
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...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&"When all government...in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided...” Thomas Jefferson&&&&"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases." — Thomas Jefferson&&&&&&&&We're not old men.We don't bother about petty morals--Keef&&&&Actually, it only takes one drink to get me loaded. Trouble is, I can't remember if it's the thirteenth or fourteenth. &&-- George Burns&&&&&&I ain't no leftist!-Bob Dylan&&&&"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce
 
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #7597 - Sep 21st, 2009 at 12:47pm
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I believe lotsajizz was talking about your consistent schooling from Brainbell and JC.
That's how I read it anyway.


I also believe that Michael Moore can have his bypass surgery anywhere he wants to, being that he has a lot of money.
He does donate tons of money to people that are struggling, so I can understand how he would disappoint you.

Finally, I thought the 'Sicko' scene with Michael Moore in a boat yelling to Guantanamo guards that others could use some of the free medical care given to prisoners was stupid. He made so many good points, exposed so many problems, and then pulls that stunt.

Ok, gotta get buzzing . . .
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #7598 - Sep 21st, 2009 at 2:34pm
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Riffhard wrote on Sep 21st, 2009 at 12:06pm:
You offer nothing to this debate Pdog because you know so little other than what you want to believe. I give you facts.
Riffy


I'm sure you beleive you are the only one with the facts and truth... Hows that working out for you?

Riffhard wrote on Sep 21st, 2009 at 12:06pm:
The difference between you and I Pdog is that I, unlike you, read all the facts! All sides of the argument. Your side is losing the debate!


Riffy



This is delusional, b/c you truly think, and then beleive, you know what I read and do, and decide what I think... This is text book definition of that... I wish it stopped there with you, but your constant ranting and raving and ager shows that you're also paranoid!!!
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #7599 - Sep 21st, 2009 at 2:44pm
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Pdog wrote on Sep 21st, 2009 at 2:34pm:
Riffhard wrote on Sep 21st, 2009 at 12:06pm:
You offer nothing to this debate Pdog because you know so little other than what you want to believe. I give you facts.
Riffy


I'm sure you beleive you are the only one with the facts and truth... Hows that working out for you?

Riffhard wrote on Sep 21st, 2009 at 12:06pm:
The difference between you and I Pdog is that I, unlike you, read all the facts! All sides of the argument. Your side is losing the debate!


Riffy



This is delusional, b/c you truly think, and then beleive, you know what I read and do, and decide what I think... This is text book definition of that... I wish it stopped there with you, but your constant ranting and raving and ager shows that you're also paranoid!!!



Right on brother.

Some people don't understand that when they claim (with certitude) to know what others read or even "know", that it undermines their credibility.
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