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fuman Ex Member Rocks Off Rules You Bastards Gender:	Re: Obama elected President Reply #6975 - Aug 21^st, 2009 at 3:13pm I for one do not think that aborting "perfectly healthy" babies weeks before their birth is acceptable. On another note, how many babies were aborted in the supposed great flood in Noah's story?
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Riffhard

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Re: Obama elected President
Reply #6976 - Aug 21^st, 2009 at 3:20pm

fuman wrote on Aug 21^st, 2009 at 3:13pm:

I for one do not think that aborting "perfectly healthy" babies weeks before their birth is acceptable.

On another note, how many babies were aborted in the supposed great flood in Noah's story?

You are not alone in that assessment funman. Most Americans find it repulsive to abort a baby that could survive outside the womb. Tiller did not hold that belief, and he made it perfectly clear to anyone that would listen that he would happily "help them out" if the price was right. He paid for his greed, and his lack of morality with his life. The guy that killed him is guilty of murder no doubt, but I feel less sorry for Tiller than I do for the thousands of babies that he killed just to make a quick buck.

As for the Noah story. I am of the mind that many stories in the Bible are metaphorical, especially in the Old Testament. However, science has proven that there was indeed a great flood, so who knows. I don't know, and neither do any of the world's leading scientific minds. I guess we'll just have to take it on faith. Wink

Riffy

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« Last Edit: Aug 21^st, 2009 at 3:21pm by Riffhard »

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Re: Obama elected President
Reply #6977 - Aug 21^st, 2009 at 3:25pm

Riffhard wrote on Aug 21^st, 2009 at 3:08pm:

Pdog wrote on Aug 21^st, 2009 at 2:41pm:

Riffhard wrote on Aug 21^st, 2009 at 2:30pm:

Pdog wrote on Aug 21^st, 2009 at 2:20pm:

Riffhard wrote on Aug 21^st, 2009 at 2:12pm:

Pdog wrote on Aug 21^st, 2009 at 2:03pm:

Riffhard wrote on Aug 21^st, 2009 at 12:44pm:

So just so I have this straight. The guy that killed Dr. Tiller was a religious zealot, but Tiller was a humane doctor who never harmed anyone? I mean it's a fact that Tiller routinely murdered babies that otherwise would have lived. He murdered babies that were well into the third trimester of pregnancy. He did for money plain and simple. So a human life is not a human life until the umbilicord is cut? I think I'd rather take the religious attitude about life thank you very much.

Just for the record, I think that the guy that killed Tiller was a murderer. However, I have zero doubts that Tiller was a murderer as well. What's the old adage that secular libs love to throw around, "karma's a bitch." Tiller got his, and I shed no tears for that greedy murderous bastard. That said, the guy that pulled the trigger should spend the rest of his life behind bars. If Tiller were still alive he should be in a cell as well.

Riffy

if an abortion is legal, going by what you're saying, a state execution even though legal, is also murder... and whoever is involved would be a murderer... regardless of guilt or innocence or when you decide to say whether conception or birth is when a humns being is formed.... if the doctor legally killed, than he is not a murderer... it is a simple matter of law, and you either follow the rule of law, and say an execution or abortion are both legal killings or not... in other words, if i decided to kill a person, based on my views outside of the law, i'm a murderer, even if that person i kill has aslso killed... your rationale says you decide what is law, based on your moral and religous beliefs, and the law trumps that... anything else is unamerican and illegal... please feel free to scream until someone makes abortions illegal or find a way to make killing people legal b/c you say they deserve it, which is pretty twisted IMO.

If someone commits murder and is found guilty of the charge and it is heinous enough for that person to receive the death sentence than so be it. Nobody in their right mind can make the case that a baby in the late third trimester is guilty of anything! Tiller may have been innocent in the strictest sense of the word, but his actions were, by any sane rational, morally repugnant. I made it clear that I did not think that he should have been murdered. I merely said that I have zero sympathy for him, and that karma came around. He may not have committed murder in the eyes of the insane laws of the state of Kansas, but anyone that would not consider it murder to kill a feasible life just weeks before birth has no moral compass. Tiller did not have any sense of morality. He got got. Fuck him.

Riffy

it's a matter of law... you seem to miss this. it's not about your opinion or sympathy, it's about law, by your justification anyone can basically make a reason to kill someone... no one is saying anything about guilt or innocence regarding an abortion... by your logic, it should be ok to kill someone when i decide their actions have crossed my moral threshold...
I think the truth is, that this mans death has more of an impact on you or me, than some abortion that involves people we will never know or meet... and this doctrs life and death has very little impact on my life oractically speaking... so I can only wonder why, issues like this really bother people like you. You seem driven by abortion, gay rights and things that really have no impact on your life at all... none of what these people do how they live really matters, yet you're so passionate about telling these people what to do and how to live... jesus, i just called you a democrat... i'm sorry!!!

Pdog please allow to repeat what I have said from the outset very slowly...I......do......not......agree.....with the.....way......that Tiller the Baby Killer......was.......murdered.......I think it was.........wrong. I have said that three times now! I said that what happened to Tiller was, in a liberal secular way of thinking, karma. The man that killed him should be sent to prison for the rest of his life! I said that too.

I just refuse to have any sympathy for Tiller. In fact, I have more sympathy for the man that killed him. His life is now forfeited because he broke the law. As well as it should be, but Tiller had no problem killing for profit. Why do liberals love to hate hired guns like Blackwater, but immediately rise to the defence of an abortionist who showed zero regards to the life of perfectly formed baby? I mean Blackwater was killing terrorists, Tiller was killing babies. Who do the liberals defend? Who do the liberals despise? Yet liberals always claim to be for the poor and helpless among us. Bullshit. Liberals are for their ideology, and little else.

Riffy

it's interesting you bring up blackwater, they have killed innocents and have been accused of some pretty nasty shit... you yourself said in regards to children being killed when we bombed targets, that they were just terrorists babies anyways...

Please cite an example of me ever saying such a thing. I have never said that!

If the agents for Blackwater killed innocents on purpose, in other words, murdered them, then they should be prosecuted.

As to the absurd comparison of the death sentence being another form of late term abortion. That is ridiculous! A murderer, by definition is not innocent! An unborn baby is the very definition of innocent! How you can make that comparison is stunning. Can you not see the difference between a grown adult who kills someone out of malice, and a baby whose only crime was to be conceived inconveniently?

I take it that you supported Tiller because what he did was legal? I have made it abundantly clear here, Pdog. I think that what happened to Tiller is nothing more than karma biting the man in the ass. He flaunted the fact that he would perform abortions on babies that were fully formed and could have survived outside the womb. You think he was just swell for doing that? He was scum, and that is based not just on my morality, but because you would have to be amoral to see it any other way.

Scott Peterson was sentenced to prison for the double murder of his wife, and his unborn child. Tiller killed babies that were mere weeks away from live birth, and were perfectly healthy, and you act as if there is nothing wrong with that. That stuns me. Go to any maternity ward and take a good long look at a baby that was born a month early. Now can you imagine puncturing the skull of that child and vacuuming it's brains out for profit? Well Tiller did just that, but he did on babies that were only a couple of weeks premature. The babies that he murdered were even more viable than most prmature babies in the thousands of maternity wards around the country. The only difference is that those babies were still happily floating around the amniotic sac waiting to be born until a drill invaded that sac and murdered them.

If you want to defend Tiller fine, but I think that the man was the very defintion of evil.

Riffy

i haven't come close to defending abortions, all i said is they are legal. The reality is, they havezero impact on me... none. I personally don't need to weigh in on the issue b/c i have no dog in the fight. so you're conjecture i support the practice b/c it is legal, is worng, it ends there. you are building an argument based on your assertation... not mine. like i said booze is legal, and many find it morally wrong. and it kills people, hence we can argue for days about it, even if we both do or don't drink or where our moral may fall. you may not realize it, but your conjectre after I said it is legal, and going on is building a strawman, you're on your way... see I haven't stated views on the doctors practice or my personal feelings of how i feel about an abortion, yet you are asserting i have... while not answering my questions i asked twice... what comes next, the insults, when you decide what you've stated is my truth offends you... If anything, your description of an abortion, is the reason why my daughter is on birth control and knows what safe sex is and regardless of the creationist and abstentionists right wing agenda has a proper education on sex, the other part of this debate you also seem to not be very fond of... I wonder how many abortions could be prevented if the people who think abortions are wrong, also saw past their morals to teach kids what is the best way to not get prego while fucking... certain irony there too... and lets remeber too, that if you're so concerned about human life, maybe you wouldn't be so uptight about healthcare for people too... like i said, you're upset about things that don't even effect you directly...

I have not defended the doctor or abortions... tell me this, if he's so evil, why didn't you kill someone like him yourself? You talk the talk, walk the walk!!! Dish out some karma!!! Or do you just like to be on the sidelines condemning on type of killing and encouraging another?
At the end of the day, whether someone has an abortion or not, really doesn't impacy me life, since I have no one in my life getting one... So how does this impact you? third time asked!!!

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fuman

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Re: Obama elected President
Reply #6978 - Aug 21^st, 2009 at 3:51pm

Education is the key, for sure.

Just as with ALL plants and animals on Earth, the goal is to survive long enough to reproduce. That's it. That's what drives everything.

Kids start feeling this effect long before sex education is available in school, so they are unaware unless parents inform them, which is wise.

Most religions are an obstacle to this education . . .

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fuman

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Re: Obama elected President
Reply #6979 - Aug 21^st, 2009 at 3:58pm

Riffhard wrote on Aug 21^st, 2009 at 3:20pm:

fuman wrote on Aug 21^st, 2009 at 3:13pm:

I for one do not think that aborting "perfectly healthy" babies weeks before their birth is acceptable.

On another note, how many babies were aborted in the supposed great flood in Noah's story?

You are not alone in that assessment funman. Most Americans find it repulsive to abort a baby that could survive outside the womb. Tiller did not hold that belief, and he made it perfectly clear to anyone that would listen that he would happily "help them out" if the price was right. He paid for his greed, and his lack of morality with his life. The guy that killed him is guilty of murder no doubt, but I feel less sorry for Tiller than I do for the thousands of babies that he killed just to make a quick buck.

As for the Noah story. I am of the mind that many stories in the Bible are metaphorical, especially in the Old Testament. However, science has proven that there was indeed a great flood, so who knows. I don't know, and neither do any of the world's leading scientific minds. I guess we'll just have to take it on faith. Wink

Riffy

I don't know that Tiller was of that mind. I have read many opinions regarding this. Fox news was pretty sure of your position, but I don't know any more after seeing their reporting. MSNBC had the opposite view of his work.
I do believe that often it is moral, for my previous post's reasons.

There have probably been thousands of "great floods" as long as the definition of "great" is massive.
There is zero proof of Noah's flood. And not for a lack of trying . . .

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Re: Obama elected President
Reply #6980 - Aug 21^st, 2009 at 3:59pm

Pdog this is a pointless pissing match. I am not building any strawmen here. I said that the guy that murdered Tiller was rightly found guilty. Tiller was scum. I have no problem calling him a scum because he was. He killed viable babies for profit, and he did it because he could legally get away with it. However, just because something is by the letter of the law legal that does not make it the morally right thing to do. It's legal to hire 18 year old chicks that are strung out on mind altering drugs to film porn. Is it the proper and right thing to do though? And if you answer in the affirmative I'd ask you to put your daughter in that scenario and then ask yourself the question again.

To make the claim, which you do, that what he did has no bearing on you is fine, but at least be consistent with your views. If you don't care about the babies that Tiller killed then why do you get so up in arms about the deaths of innocents in Iraq? I mean what business is it of yours who dies over there? See? There's the rub. You find it morally repugnant that innocent life is shed in war, especially one that you so adamantly disagree with, but you're willing to ignore the deaths of hundreds of innocents in Tiller's clinic because what he did was legal. That view just seems so blatantly contradictory to me.

Riffy

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&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&"When all government...in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided...” Thomas Jefferson&&&&"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases." — Thomas Jefferson&&&&&&&&We're not old men.We don't bother about petty morals--Keef&&&&Actually, it only takes one drink to get me loaded. Trouble is, I can't remember if it's the thirteenth or fourteenth. &&-- George Burns&&&&&&I ain't no leftist!-Bob Dylan&&&&"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce

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fuman Ex Member Rocks Off Rules You Bastards Gender:	Re: Obama elected President Reply #6981 - Aug 21^st, 2009 at 4:13pm I think the difference here is that nobody disputes that babies and children in Iraq are innocent. Maybe not every child, that is certainly arguable. But babies are indisputable innocent. That Tiller killed healthy babies is disputable. At least it is to me, until I hear more evidence.
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Re: Obama elected President
Reply #6982 - Aug 21^st, 2009 at 4:54pm

You know what is reprehensible to me? Anti-abortionists (especially men) jackassing about how wrong it is. Let's step into Mr Peabody's Way Back machine to the time abortions were illegal. Ahh...we're here...pre-Roe v Wade. Now let's change your sex from male to female. A pregnant female. Frightened? You bet. Were you lucky enough to even get the name of a Dr who could help? Were you able to raise the money? I think 1969 prices were around $600. That's a lot of organizing to do while keeping everything as secret as possible, but for this fantasy trip we'll say you were successful. Oh and as far as the appt time...don't be late. It won't take long because there is no anesthetic but it must be sanitary because the instruments are still hot. About 30 minutes (and a lot of pain) later you're ready to start on the long trip home. And it doesn't end there...it takes a few more days. And that's an illegal abortion performed by a licensed Dr who later ended up in prison.

So before we all get so worried about labels allow me to say I am 100% PRO-CHOICE. Keep it legal and safe and unless you are in danger of getting pregnant yourself keep your nose out of it.

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"I am a friend to any brave and gallant outlaw"

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Re: Obama elected President
Reply #6983 - Aug 21^st, 2009 at 5:13pm

Ginda wrote on Aug 21^st, 2009 at 4:54pm:

You know what is reprehensible to me? Anti-abortionists (especially men) jackassing about how wrong it is. Let's step into Mr Peabody's Way Back machine to the time abortions were illegal. Ahh...we're here...pre-Roe v Wade. Now let's change your sex from male to female. A pregnant female. Frightened? You bet. Were you lucky enough to even get the name of a Dr who could help? Were you able to raise the money? I think 1969 prices were around $600. That's a lot of organizing to do while keeping everything as secret as possible, but for this fantasy trip we'll say you were successful. Oh and as far as the appt time...don't be late. It won't take long because there is no anesthetic but it must be sanitary because the instruments are still hot. About 30 minutes (and a lot of pain) later you're ready to start on the long trip home. And it doesn't end there...it takes a few more days. And that's an illegal abortion performed by a licensed Dr who later ended up in prison.

So before we all get so worried about labels allow me to say I am 100% PRO-CHOICE. Keep it legal and safe and unless you are in danger of getting pregnant yourself keep your nose out of it.

We are not talking about your everyday garden variety abortions here Ginda. We're talking about the murder of babies that are fully formed and quite capable of living outside the womb. We're talking about late third trimester abortions to get rid an "inconvenience". A whole panel of his peers condemned what Tiller was doing, but because you, and people like you, only think about the mother and show zero regards for the baby we're just supposed to shut up about it? Huh, no. Sorry.

Yes. Keep abortion legal in most cases. Late third term abortions where there is no risk to the life of the mother and the baby is a perfectly viable healthy baby? Absolutely not! Never! That is murder plain and simple, and nobody can spin that one any differently.

Are you saying that you support any and all abortions, Ginda?

And zero public funding for any abortions period! Some people do not want their tax dollars to fund something that they find morally unconscionable. Who is the government to force them to pay for them? Would these same liberals support public funding of reeducation for gays? Of course not, and they shouldn't support that nonsense, but to many, and a growing majority btw, abortion is no less offensive.

Riffy

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&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&"When all government...in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided...” Thomas Jefferson&&&&"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases." — Thomas Jefferson&&&&&&&&We're not old men.We don't bother about petty morals--Keef&&&&Actually, it only takes one drink to get me loaded. Trouble is, I can't remember if it's the thirteenth or fourteenth. &&-- George Burns&&&&&&I ain't no leftist!-Bob Dylan&&&&"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce

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Re: Obama elected President
Reply #6984 - Aug 21^st, 2009 at 5:21pm

This course of action should save Florida from the expense of future disasters.
Shame that New Orleans didn't try this, huh?

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/are-you-there-god-its-me-charlie.php

Gov. Charlie Crist (R-FL) is really taking his appeals to the state's religious right to a new level, in his campaign for Senate.

Town Hall reports that Crist was speaking to a group of real estate agents, and credited prayer notes in the Western Wall in Jerusalem with preventing his state from being hit by hurricanes during his time as governor.

Crist told of how he visited the Wall in 2007, and placed a note saying: "Dear God, please protect our Florida from storms and other difficulties. Charlie."

"Time goes on -- May, June, July, August, September, October, November, December -- no hurricanes," Crist said. "Thank God."

Crist has also had other people place notes in the Wall in 2008 and 2009.

Crist made it clear that's he's not personally taking credit for Florida having been spared from hurricanes. "I give that to God," Crist said. "But it's nice."

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Riffhard

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Re: Obama elected President
Reply #6985 - Aug 21^st, 2009 at 6:33pm

Obama to raise 10-year deficit to $9 trillion

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE57K4XE20090821

{{{{{Blank Friggin' Stare}}}}}

Geesh this guy is nuts! Go apologize to your kids now. This guy has just limited their lifestyles, and burdened them with an unbelievably massive debt the likes of which has never been seen in the history of civilization.

So, are we still blaming Bush for this? Just wondering. Who are we supposed to hate now? Big oil? Big Pharma? Big Insurance? Big Auto? Never Big Government though, right?

Riffy

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&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&"When all government...in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided...” Thomas Jefferson&&&&"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases." — Thomas Jefferson&&&&&&&&We're not old men.We don't bother about petty morals--Keef&&&&Actually, it only takes one drink to get me loaded. Trouble is, I can't remember if it's the thirteenth or fourteenth. &&-- George Burns&&&&&&I ain't no leftist!-Bob Dylan&&&&"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce

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Re: Obama elected President
Reply #6986 - Aug 21^st, 2009 at 8:18pm

Riffhard wrote on Aug 21^st, 2009 at 3:59pm:

Pdog this is a pointless pissing match. I am not building any strawmen here. I said that the guy that murdered Tiller was rightly found guilty. Tiller was scum. I have no problem calling him a scum because he was. He killed viable babies for profit, and he did it because he could legally get away with it. However, just because something is by the letter of the law legal that does not make it the morally right thing to do. It's legal to hire 18 year old chicks that are strung out on mind altering drugs to film porn. Is it the proper and right thing to do though? And if you answer in the affirmative I'd ask you to put your daughter in that scenario and then ask yourself the question again.

To make the claim, which you do, that what he did has no bearing on you is fine, but at least be consistent with your views. If you don't care about the babies that Tiller killed then why do you get so up in arms about the deaths of innocents in Iraq? I mean what business is it of yours who dies over there? See? There's the rub. You find it morally repugnant that innocent life is shed in war, especially one that you so adamantly disagree with, but you're willing to ignore the deaths of hundreds of innocents in Tiller's clinic because what he did was legal. That view just seems so blatantly contradictory to me.

Riffy

you're choosing my words... i never said i don't care about the babies being aborted. I said I don't know anyone who is having an abortion, so it has no direct effect on my life... and still you have not said how this has any affect on yours, yet you continue to say I am saying things I am not. Just like I never said i was up in arms about innocents killed in Iraq, I just made an analogy, based on you're comment made about collateral damage when we invaded iraq. i remeber you saying the children of terrists would just grow up to be islamic terrists and used the term terrorist babies... i'll never forget... but it is a moot point, it was just an analogy, not the same as me supporting or condoning any view or cause. I have not ignored anything... I actually think you made my point better... if a US bombing is done in a way, that is considered to be as humane as an act of war is, and not an illegal action or malicious, than yes, a clinic that performs legal abortions is the same... I'm not up in arms about either morally... one I see as a sad fact of war, the other a sad fact individuals choices... niether a crime by our socities standards.
in your words, karma is a form of natural justice, although you use a religous statement out of context, b/c karma and justice are not the same ( in fact, you are smearing a religion, yet you freak out when chrisitanity is taken out of context), yet it is clear that is what you're saying b/c you say the doctor killed innocents, call him horrible names ect... I don't know the man, but i'm sure he is not this pure evil you say he is, yet even if he was evil as satan, he's still protected under "the law".
are you really going to continue to put words in my mouth and ignore the simple question i asked you? and yes, you're building a strawmen, by using words i didn't use... i said "effect" not "bearing", like you did... not the same. and in that context you begin that paragraph, you're creating something, I'm supposed to then try to refute, that i never said... your statements after that are based on your choosing my words, and challenging me on that, not what i said... ie: strawman. it's a fake as a scarecrow in a cornfield... and regardless of you doing that, i still answered your strawman argument in my post here... death in war is not unlike an abortion, both a form of killing, both morally wrong to most and in this context both are legal. and both are choices that people make, that effect the lives of others... how many times have you made posts saying you talked to someone or know someone , related to a topic we're discusing? Many, many, many... which is great, but it is someone elses experience, not your own... and i've asked you, how does this particualr topic effect you, and you've only put words in my mouth... I know doctors and women and babies and soldiers and even a few iraqis... none of them make me an expert on the iraq war, abortion or anything.... Experience is way more than intelect or thinking you understand...

any you're lame comment about porn... is it legal to hire someone on drugs to film porn? It's not legal to fly a plane loaded either, and it's been done... There'a many in the sex industry who are sane, sober people... and there's alot of cops drunk and high... related to a few of them too... and my daughter isn't in porn, but she is on the pill... how about you, does that effect you personally? I know you're a father... maybe you should now think about someone commenting on your kid being on drugs and in porn might come off to you... Remeber, two months ago, here, someone said the murder of my children would be entertaining...

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LadyJane

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Re: Obama elected President
Reply #6987 - Aug 21^st, 2009 at 8:26pm

Ginda wrote on Aug 21^st, 2009 at 4:54pm:

You know what is reprehensible to me? Anti-abortionists (especially men) jackassing about how wrong it is. Let's step into Mr Peabody's Way Back machine to the time abortions were illegal. Ahh...we're here...pre-Roe v Wade. Now let's change your sex from male to female. A pregnant female. Frightened? You bet. Were you lucky enough to even get the name of a Dr who could help? Were you able to raise the money? I think 1969 prices were around $600. That's a lot of organizing to do while keeping everything as secret as possible, but for this fantasy trip we'll say you were successful. Oh and as far as the appt time...don't be late. It won't take long because there is no anesthetic but it must be sanitary because the instruments are still hot. About 30 minutes (and a lot of pain) later you're ready to start on the long trip home. And it doesn't end there...it takes a few more days. And that's an illegal abortion performed by a licensed Dr who later ended up in prison.

So before we all get so worried about labels allow me to say I am 100% PRO-CHOICE. Keep it legal and safe and unless you are in danger of getting pregnant yourself keep your nose out of it.

Agreed, Ginda.
BTW, nice to see another female in this thread. Wink

Stick around.

LJ.

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fuman

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Re: Obama elected President
Reply #6988 - Aug 21^st, 2009 at 8:49pm

Riffhard wrote on Aug 21^st, 2009 at 6:33pm:

Obama to raise 10-year deficit to $9 trillion

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE57K4XE20090821

{{{{{Blank Friggin' Stare}}}}}

Geesh this guy is nuts! Go apologize to your kids now. This guy has just limited their lifestyles, and burdened them with an unbelievably massive debt the likes of which has never been seen in the history of civilization.

So, are we still blaming Bush for this? Just wondering. Who are we supposed to hate now? Big oil? Big Pharma? Big Insurance? Big Auto? Never Big Government though, right?

Riffy

Dude, you're really got to stop pre-living these fears.

Honestly.

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Riffhard

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Re: Obama elected President
Reply #6989 - Aug 21^st, 2009 at 9:00pm

Riffhard wrote on Aug 21^st, 2009 at 6:33pm:

Obama to raise 10-year deficit to $9 trillion

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE57K4XE20090821

{{{{{Blank Friggin' Stare}}}}}

Geesh this guy is nuts! Go apologize to your kids now. This guy has just limited their lifestyles, and burdened them with an unbelievably massive debt the likes of which has never been seen in the history of civilization.

So, are we still blaming Bush for this? Just wondering. Who are we supposed to hate now? Big oil? Big Pharma? Big Insurance? Big Auto? Never Big Government though, right?

Riffy

Ummm, what about this though? Remember this is before the idiotic plan for nationalized health care. Anyone care to try and defend this assinine spending? Is it Sarah Palin's fault? Bush's? The angry mobs at the townhall meetings? I just need to know where we should place the blame? I mean I know that Obama has nothing at all to do his own massive spending. I just need to know who to blame.

Riffy

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&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&"When all government...in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided...” Thomas Jefferson&&&&"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases." — Thomas Jefferson&&&&&&&&We're not old men.We don't bother about petty morals--Keef&&&&Actually, it only takes one drink to get me loaded. Trouble is, I can't remember if it's the thirteenth or fourteenth. &&-- George Burns&&&&&&I ain't no leftist!-Bob Dylan&&&&"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce

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Re: Obama elected President
Reply #6990 - Aug 21^st, 2009 at 9:32pm

Riffhard wrote on Aug 21^st, 2009 at 9:00pm:

Riffhard wrote on Aug 21^st, 2009 at 6:33pm:

Obama to raise 10-year deficit to $9 trillion

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE57K4XE20090821

{{{{{Blank Friggin' Stare}}}}}

Geesh this guy is nuts! Go apologize to your kids now. This guy has just limited their lifestyles, and burdened them with an unbelievably massive debt the likes of which has never been seen in the history of civilization.

So, are we still blaming Bush for this? Just wondering. Who are we supposed to hate now? Big oil? Big Pharma? Big Insurance? Big Auto? Never Big Government though, right?

Riffy

Ummm, what about this though? Remember this is before the idiotic plan for nationalized health care. Anyone care to try and defend this assinine spending? Is it Sarah Palin's fault? Bush's? The angry mobs at the townhall meetings? I just need to know where we should place the blame? I mean I know that Obama has nothing at all to do his own massive spending. I just need to know who to blame.

Riffy

this is obvious... kinda silly to ask who is to blame... Bush spent the money, now obama is spending up all our money faster...
makes me miss clinton... sweet dick willy knew how to balance a check book and a few women...

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fuman

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Re: Obama elected President
Reply #6991 - Aug 21^st, 2009 at 10:41pm

Riffhard wrote on Aug 21^st, 2009 at 9:00pm:

Riffhard wrote on Aug 21^st, 2009 at 6:33pm:

Obama to raise 10-year deficit to $9 trillion

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE57K4XE20090821

{{{{{Blank Friggin' Stare}}}}}

Geesh this guy is nuts! Go apologize to your kids now. This guy has just limited their lifestyles, and burdened them with an unbelievably massive debt the likes of which has never been seen in the history of civilization.

So, are we still blaming Bush for this? Just wondering. Who are we supposed to hate now? Big oil? Big Pharma? Big Insurance? Big Auto? Never Big Government though, right?

Riffy

Ummm, what about this though? Remember this is before the idiotic plan for nationalized health care. Anyone care to try and defend this assinine spending? Is it Sarah Palin's fault? Bush's? The angry mobs at the townhall meetings? I just need to know where we should place the blame? I mean I know that Obama has nothing at all to do his own massive spending. I just need to know who to blame.

Riffy

Ok, I'll take a shot.

It is pretty much all agreed upon that the health care system is taking us down, economically. Businesses are going under. Layoffs are forcing those that had coverage to lose it. Many people that need prescriptions. Something needs to be done. Same with Medicare. Since we don't want anything terrible to happen to granny, something is going to get passed.

Perhaps your fear of unknown tax increases (fair concern) carries more weight in your thought process than me in mine, but I side with the citizens. Americans. Your grandma. Even with the knowledge that corruption will bleed the appropriated funding for the administration of a public option program.

Without a public option, HMO's will continue to overcharge, yet get the added benefit of millions of new policies.
That can't be allowed to happen.

I (like you) prefer the government would stay out of this, but capitalism doesn't seem to regulate itself in the medical arena. Not like the financial services industry anyway.

Now I will admit that this program will work better with a Dem in office. We've all seen how Repub Admins handle social related programs. (it's safe to breathe the air in NYC on 912 or Katrina or SocSec)
So I see the potential. Gotta side with granny.

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nankerphelge

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Re: Obama elected President
Reply #6992 - Aug 22^nd, 2009 at 6:35am

Why is it that if it has to do with the female reproductive system, all the pro-choice folks don't want the government anywhere near women.

Yet now it seems that, aside from the female reproductive system, the government is invited to implement a healthcare system that will make all these important healthcare decisions for people?

Does anyone see a problem with the logic?

Wouldn't the same concern apply - who is the government to make my decisions for me?

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Re: Obama elected President
Reply #6993 - Aug 22^nd, 2009 at 8:01am

nankerphelge wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2009 at 6:35am:

Why is it that if it has to do with the female reproductive system, all the pro-choice folks don't want the government anywhere near women.

Yet now it seems that, aside from the female reproductive system, the government is invited to implement a healthcare system that will make all these important healthcare decisions for people?

Does anyone see a problem with the logic?

Wouldn't the same concern apply - who is the government to make my decisions for me?

the proposed system isn't making decisions for womens reproduction. that is false... most of the crap being stated about what is in the bill is false... why is the medical insurance industry spending a million plus dollars a day to fight against the poposed medicare for all system? that answer is obvious, they stand to lose money, they are doing exactly what tobacco companies did for years when the truth about their product and how they marketed came out. the way to stop abortions, isn't by trying to stop abortions. it takes a little more, and it seems too many americans just want to hear simple comments regarding what a problem is, blame someones and stay pissed. you really don't see people wanting to be bothered by the long boring information or the work and plans to logistically begin to solve complex problems... it's much easier to just type of a reactionary false comment like you did.
One thing you miss, and many guys miss... a women is pregnant from the point of conception... in some cases the guy guy is non existent, unwilling, suddenly doesn't want to deal with the pregnancy ect... and is not accountable legally until the child is born or aborted, or misacarried ect... is it bizarro world when a women can be charged with abusing a fetus by drinking booze or doing drugs while pregnant, and at the same time make a decision to end the pregnancy through abortion and do it legally... it's crazy... but it is reality. From what i see, you and riffy can identify the problem from your POV, yet i don't hear your solutions for unwanted pregnancies, healthcare ect... just aot of complaining and fingerpointing. and i don't see how most of this effects your lives.

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LadyJane

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Re: Obama elected President
Reply #6994 - Aug 22^nd, 2009 at 8:14am

nankerphelge wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2009 at 6:35am:

Why is it that if it has to do with the female reproductive system, all the pro-choice folks don't want the government anywhere near women.

Yet now it seems that, aside from the female reproductive system, the government is invited to implement a healthcare system that will make all these important healthcare decisions for people?

Does anyone see a problem with the logic?

Wouldn't the same concern apply - who is the government to make my decisions for me?

Excuse me??
I believe I have been CRYSTAL CLEAR on the issue, although I wonder sometimes if anyone even reads MY posts.
I want the Govenment OUT of my life and yours as much as possible.

LJ.

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nankerphelge

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Re: Obama elected President
Reply #6995 - Aug 22^nd, 2009 at 8:49am

"the proposed system isn't making decisions for womens reproduction. that is false"

Have another cup of coffee.
I didn't say the bill had anything in it about women's reproduction.

What I said was, why is it that some pro-lifers get themselves all lathered up at any government intrusion into the abortion decision, but there does not seem to be the same level of concern when the government wants to take over healthcare generally, and important decisions about, well, name it, gall bladder surgery, cancer surgery?

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Re: Obama elected President
Reply #6996 - Aug 22^nd, 2009 at 8:51am

LadyJane wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2009 at 8:14am:

nankerphelge wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2009 at 6:35am:

Why is it that if it has to do with the female reproductive system, all the pro-choice folks don't want the government anywhere near women.

Yet now it seems that, aside from the female reproductive system, the government is invited to implement a healthcare system that will make all these important healthcare decisions for people?

Does anyone see a problem with the logic?

Wouldn't the same concern apply - who is the government to make my decisions for me?

Excuse me??
I believe I have been CRYSTAL CLEAR on the issue, although I wonder sometimes if anyone even reads MY posts.
I want the Govenment OUT of my life and yours as much as possible.

LJ.

this is why we should never re-elect anyone. abandoning the two party system and having the people fight tooth and nail to remove all the special interest money infecting our legislation. as much as i agree with you in principal, it isn't really govt. invading our lives, it's the private sector, religions, special interests ect... anyone with enough money can influence govt. to such extremes as to cause mass changes in how people like you and me get information and live our daily lives.

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Re: Obama elected President
Reply #6997 - Aug 22^nd, 2009 at 9:01am

"What I said was, why is it that some pro-lifers get themselves all lathered up at any government intrusion into the abortion decision, but there does not seem to be the same level of concern when the government wants to take over healthcare generally, and important decisions about, well, name it, gall bladder surgery, cancer surgery?"

there's nothing that will be any dif. from what medicare does, except rudcing costs by competition. There's incentives for doctors to treat patiens better than they have been with private insurance and people already with insurance aren't going to gain or lose coverage or treatment, only people who have non, will nkow have access... We've been paying for Iraqi's to get free healthcare since 2003... and in our country we're spending more, and getting less than 36 other countries... under the bill, doctors make the decisions.... currently 1/4 million dollars a day is being spent by insuance companies to fight this proposed legislation. if the insurance operated the way people thin it ideally should, then we wouldn't spend the most and get such a lower level of care in the USA. They don't and these high costs are inflated by greed. the level of treatment recieved with insurance is sub standard for millions and then there's the millionds without. a new expanded version of medicare for all is what we need. it makes a healthier country and it is patriotic and the right thing. too bad the bible only had inepreted prophecies to go to war in the mid east, and not how we should keep people healthy, maybe we'd have more passion about helping people when we spend insane amounts of money. i'm not sure why we have free healthcare we pay for for potential terrorists in iraq, and we can't provide affordable care for our people here... talk about making your country look weak.

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Re: Obama elected President
Reply #6998 - Aug 22^nd, 2009 at 3:51pm

Found this today:

Thomas Jefferson Quotes:

When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe .. Thomas Jefferson

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. Thomas Jefferson

It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world. Thomas Jefferson

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. Thomas Jefferson

No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. Thomas Jefferson

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. Thomas Jefferson

Very Interesting Quote: In light of the present financial crisis, it's interesting to read what Thomas Jefferson said in 1802:

'I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.

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“What rap did that was impressive was to show there are so many tone-deaf people out there,” he says. “All they need is a drum beat and somebody yelling over it and they’re happy. There’s an enormous market for people who can’t tell one note from another.” - Keef

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Re: Obama elected President
Reply #6999 - Aug 22^nd, 2009 at 6:50pm

Edith Grove wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2009 at 3:51pm:

Found this today:

Thomas Jefferson Quotes:

When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe .. Thomas Jefferson

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. Thomas Jefferson

It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world. Thomas Jefferson

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. Thomas Jefferson

No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. Thomas Jefferson

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. Thomas Jefferson

Very Interesting Quote: In light of the present financial crisis, it's interesting to read what Thomas Jefferson said in 1802:

'I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.

and private banks run the federal reserve of the usa... and no one seems to really give a fuck... pisses me the fuck off, that we basically send all our income tax directly to these same banks to pay off interest on loans of our own money, in some never ending anal rape!!! i can understand idiot democrats not gicving a shit, sonce spending money is what they are supposed to do, with reckless abandon... but republicans. the party that was once about fiscal conservatism... bitch about deficits and debt all you want, as long as our money is handled like this, it really doesn't matter if it is 1 mil or 10 trillion dollars... it will never be paid off... ever. we are slaves!!!

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Poll
Question: What item is most likely found in the top drawer of Riffy's dresser?
naked pictures of Reagan 5 (20.0%) Barry O voodoo doll 3 (12.0%) Hoffa's body 2 (8.0%) DVDs of "saved by the bell", season 3 1 (4.0%) JC's boss's phone number 2 (8.0%) bucket of chicken 5 (20.0%) three sticks of "secret" deoderant, labels facing out 3 (12.0%) "Eagles Greatest Hits" CD 4 (16.0%) Total votes: 25 « Last Modified by: Starbuck on: Mar 3^rd, 2010 at 5:01pm »