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Poll Poll
Question: What item is most likely found in the top drawer of Riffy's dresser?

naked pictures of Reagan    
  5 (20.0%)
Barry O voodoo doll    
  3 (12.0%)
Hoffa's body    
  2 (8.0%)
DVDs of "saved by the bell", season 3    
  1 (4.0%)
JC's boss's phone number    
  2 (8.0%)
bucket of chicken    
  5 (20.0%)
three sticks of "secret" deoderant, labels facing out    
  3 (12.0%)
"Eagles Greatest Hits" CD    
  4 (16.0%)




Total votes: 25
« Last Modified by: Starbuck on: Mar 3rd, 2010 at 5:01pm »

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Obama elected President (Read 624,036 times)
nankerphelge
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #6800 - Aug 11th, 2009 at 9:07pm
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(1) - they aren't evil, I was making fun of libs

(2) - There were many sources in that piece.  Plus, you believe in Obama?
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fuman
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #6801 - Aug 11th, 2009 at 10:02pm
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nankerphelge wrote on Aug 11th, 2009 at 9:07pm:
(1) - they aren't evil, I was making fun of libs

(2) - There were many sources in that piece.  Plus, you believe in Obama?



I believe a lot, not all. I don't believe he is trying to make America socialist. I'm sure their are lots of deals being made that I wouldn't like. Bottom line, yeah I trust him.

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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #6802 - Aug 11th, 2009 at 10:42pm
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fuman wrote on Aug 11th, 2009 at 10:02pm:
nankerphelge wrote on Aug 11th, 2009 at 9:07pm:
(1) - they aren't evil, I was making fun of libs

(2) - There were many sources in that piece.  Plus, you believe in Obama?



I believe a lot, not all. I don't believe he is trying to make America socialist. I'm sure their are lots of deals being made that I wouldn't like. Bottom line, yeah I trust him.





Nuff said. Thus you are.....well, you know the rest.



Riffy
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...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&"When all government...in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided...” Thomas Jefferson&&&&"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases." — Thomas Jefferson&&&&&&&&We're not old men.We don't bother about petty morals--Keef&&&&Actually, it only takes one drink to get me loaded. Trouble is, I can't remember if it's the thirteenth or fourteenth. &&-- George Burns&&&&&&I ain't no leftist!-Bob Dylan&&&&"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce
 
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #6803 - Aug 11th, 2009 at 11:08pm
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There are still some liberals out there that have not completely lost their fucking minds. Camille Paglia is a great example. Politically I couldn't be further away from her, but hey, at least she has some common sense. The lady never holds back on what she is actually thinking, and she is not afraid to say it. She defended Sarah Palin because she saw perfectly well that the media was viciously, and unfairly attacking her, and her family. Now she is laying into Obama, and really giving it to Pelosi. Some of you libs would do well to read this piece from Salon.com.


Here are a couple of passages that I found interesting. Interesting, mind you, because this liberal lady was ballsy enough to say what we all know to be true, but some drones just refuse to acknowledge.


These two paragraphs in particular mirror exactly what I have said over and over again. Albeit, nowhere near as eloquently as Paglia does here.


And what do Democrats stand for, if they are so ready to defame concerned citizens as the "mob" -- a word betraying a Marie Antoinette delusion of superiority to ordinary mortals. I thought my party was populist, attentive to the needs and wishes of those outside the power structure. And as a product of the 1960s, I thought the Democratic party was passionately committed to freedom of thought and speech.

But somehow liberals have drifted into a strange servility toward big government, which they revere as a godlike foster father-mother who can dispense all bounty and magically heal all ills. The ethical collapse of the left was nowhere more evident than in the near total silence of liberal media and Web sites at the Obama administration's outrageous solicitation to private citizens to report unacceptable "casual conversations" to the White House. If Republicans had done this, there would have been an angry explosion by Democrats from coast to coast. I was stunned at the failure of liberals to see the blatant totalitarianism in this incident, which the president should have immediately denounced. His failure to do so implicates him in it.



Here's the whole read, and while I don't agree with all of it, or even half of it, at least she sees things clearer than many here.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/paglia/2009/08/12/town_halls/


Riffy



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...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&"When all government...in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided...” Thomas Jefferson&&&&"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases." — Thomas Jefferson&&&&&&&&We're not old men.We don't bother about petty morals--Keef&&&&Actually, it only takes one drink to get me loaded. Trouble is, I can't remember if it's the thirteenth or fourteenth. &&-- George Burns&&&&&&I ain't no leftist!-Bob Dylan&&&&"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce
 
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #6804 - Aug 12th, 2009 at 5:25am
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“What rap did that was impressive was to show there are so many tone-deaf people out there,” he says. “All they need is a drum beat and somebody yelling over it and they’re happy. There’s an enormous market for people who can’t tell one note from another.” - Keef
 
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #6805 - Aug 12th, 2009 at 8:09am
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fuman wrote on Aug 11th, 2009 at 8:59pm:
nankerphelge wrote on Aug 11th, 2009 at 8:57pm:
Fact-checking Obama on Healthcare

Tuesday, August 11, 2009 8:21 PM

By: David A. Patten  

Several statements that President Barack Obama made at his town hall meeting at Portsmouth High School in New Hampshire on Tuesday merit closer inspection.

Among them:


Nobody will lose their current plan: "Now, the way we have approached it, is that if you've got healthcare under a private plan, if your employer provides you healthcare or you buy your own healthcare and you're happy with it, you won't have to change."

Fact: A nonprofit healthcare research organization, the Lewin Group, concluded in a study commissioned by the Heritage Foundation that more than 88 million Americans would lose their current insurance under the 1,018-page plan originally submitted to Congress.

"It is hard to argue against the facts," Nina Owcharenko, deputy director of the Center for Health Policy Studies for the Heritage Foundation, tells Newsmax. "The Lewin Group estimates more than 88 million could lose their current employer-based coverage under the House bill. Other estimates, by the Congressional Budget Office and Urban Institute, although lower than Lewin, still find millions of Americans could lose their current coverage."


Obama objects to special interests: "But let's face it, now is the hard part – because the history is clear – every time we come close to passing health insurance reform, the special interests fight back with everything they've got."

Fact: Actually, pharmaceutical companies and health insurance firms have tried hard to work with the administration to shape the proposals coming out of Congress.

"In stark contrast to the healthcare reform debate in the 1990s," reports The Hill, "the health insurance industry has refrained from launching attacks on Obama or the plans working their way through Congress. Insurance lobbyists have been very active on both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue trying to shape the legislations, but so far the industry has not used its considerable resources to stop the process, despite numerous Democratic proposals it opposes."

Robert Zirkelbach, communications director for the America's Health Insurance Plans trade organization, tells Newsmax: "The inconvenient fact is that our industry strongly supports healthcare reform and we actually proposed last year the insurance market reforms and consumer protections that people are talking about today."


Obama on prescription drugs: "Now, in terms of savings for you as a Medicare recipient, the biggest one is on prescription drugs, because the prescription drug companies have already said that they would be willing to put up $80 billion in rebates for prescription drugs as part of a healthcare reform package. Now, we may be able to get even more than that."

Fact: The White House admitted last week that a New York Times report that the administration had cut a backroom deal with the pharmaceutical companies was accurate. The administration desperately wanted to show that private companies were supporting its healthcare initiatives, so it offered the drug companies a deal: If they would sign onto the plan and agree to $80 billion in cuts, the administration would guarantee it would not allow Congress to go back to them for further reductions in drug prices. Former Clinton administration Labor Secretary Robert Reich wrote in a Salon.com column that he was "appalled" that Obama – who promised a new type of government independent of lobbyists – had cut a secret deal with Big Pharma. "We're on a precarious road – and wherever it leads, it's not toward democracy," Reich wrote.

Footnote: Obama's secret deal with the drug companies was exposed after the companies sought assurances, due to suggestions that they might be asked to make even deeper cuts despite the White House agreement. Obama's statement that "we may be able to get even more than that" will resonate in corporate boardrooms, as CEOs evaluate whether they can trust the White House to live up to its end of any bargains.


Obama spins 'public option': "Now, the only thing that I have said is that having a public option in that menu would provide competition for insurance companies to keep them honest."

Fact: Obama's effort to distance himself from the increasingly unpopular public option plan – which originally meant a publicly subsidized and operated healthcare insurance option – is complicated by his prior statements. Before he began his presidential run in earnest, Obama favored universal, single-payer (government) health insurance. In a June letter to Sen. Ted Kennedy, D-Mass., posted on Obama's Organizing for America Web site, Obama stated: "I strongly believe that Americans should have the choice of a public health insurance option operating alongside private plans. This will give them a better range of choices, make the healthcare market more competitive, and keep insurance companies honest." In July, when his chief of staff suggested the public option might be jettisoned, Obama released a statement reaffirming his commitment to the proposals then on the table for government-subsidized healthcare, saying it was "one of the best ways to bring down costs, provide more choices and assure quality is a public option that will force the insurance companies to compete and keep them honest."


Preventive care saves money: "And finally – this is important – we will require insurance companies to cover routine checkups and preventive care, like mammograms and colonoscopies – (applause) – because there's no reason we shouldn't be catching diseases like breast cancer and prostate cancer on the front end. That makes sense, it saves lives; it also saves money – and we need to save money in this health care system."

Fact: No one can dispute that catching diseases as early as possible is a laudable goal. But the president's assertion that preventative healthcare will generate savings and reduce healthcare costs – as logical as it may sounds -- is a myth.

Douglas W. Elmendorf, director of the Congressional Budget Office, recently addressed this point in a seven-page letter posted on CBO.gov. "Although different types of preventive care have different effects on spending, the evidence suggests that for most preventive services, expanded utilization leads to higher, not lower, medical spending overall." While that finding may seem counterintuitive, Elmendorf explains: "To avert one case of acute illness, it is usually necessary to provide preventive care to many patients, most of whom would not have suffered that illness anyway. Even when the unit cost of a particular preventive service is low, costs can accumulate quickly when a large number of patients are treated preventively." Again, that's not to suggest that preventative care isn't a good idea. But the unfortunate reality is it will drive healthcare costs up, not down.


Obama promises reform won't increase the deficit: "First of all, I said I won't sign a bill that adds to the deficit or the national debt. OK? So this will have to be paid for."

Fact: The Congressional Budget Office has estimated the cost of healthcare at more than $1 trillion over 10 years. The proposals made to reduce that cost – such as raising taxes on those earning more than $250,000 per year – have yet to make the bill deficit-neutral. The CBO estimates it will increase the deficit by $239 billion over the next decade. But even if Obama and congressional Democrats find a way to bridge that gap, the real cost of the current proposals comes after year 10. Based on CBO estimates that the net new costs of the program will increase by 8 percent per year, the Wall Street Journal estimates that by 2020, red ink generated by current proposals will tally over $188 billion – per year. The Journal adds, "As for the spending, when has a new entitlement ever come in under budget?"





You believe the Lewin Group?

Cmon, you're not serious.




I guess he didn'y want to actually research the fact checkers... I'm sure he read the one I put up and researched the othe day...
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #6806 - Aug 12th, 2009 at 9:26am
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Pdog just a quick question for you, and a comment.


First the question. Why in the world would even contemplate allowing the federal government be the conduit through which you receive your health care given the fact that the same exact federal government has bankrupted Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, etc. etc. etc.


Now the comment. The CBO did in fact come straight out and say that the numbers that Barack Obama is spitting out are complete and utter fantasy. The Congressional Budget Office Director Douglas Elmendorf  (appointed by Barry no less) has said that there is absolutley no way that this massive government takeover of a full 1/6th of the US economy can be done as it has been planned.


Here read this. This destroys any of the BS fact check post that you made for one reason alone. Elmendorf is a non-partisan, and he was appointed by Barack Obama! I love how some of you on the left continue the BS spin machine of trying to "help people out who can't afford to help themselves"! That's crap! You're simply playing politics, and you're ignoring any, and all, facts that dispute your argument. Well you can't dispute what the CBO says!


Here--->Instead of saving the federal government from fiscal catastrophe, the health reform measures being drafted by congressional Democrats would worsen an already bleak budget outlook, increasing deficit projections and driving the nation more deeply into debt, the director of the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office said this morning.
Under questioning by members of the Senate Budget Committee, CBO director Douglas Elmendorf said bills crafted by House leaders and the Senate health committee do not propose "the sort of fundamental changes that would be necessary to reduce the trajectory of federal health spending by a significant amount."

"On the contrary," Elmendorf said, "the legislation significantly expands the federal responsibility for health-care costs."

....the reform measures put forth so far would not fulfill their pledge to "bend the cost curve" downward, Elmendorf said. Instead, he said, "The curve is being raised."

The CBO is the official arbiter of the costs of legislation, and Elmendorf's stark testimony is certain to undermine support for the measures even as three House panels begin debate and aim to put a bill on the House floor before the August recess.




Riffy
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...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&"When all government...in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided...” Thomas Jefferson&&&&"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases." — Thomas Jefferson&&&&&&&&We're not old men.We don't bother about petty morals--Keef&&&&Actually, it only takes one drink to get me loaded. Trouble is, I can't remember if it's the thirteenth or fourteenth. &&-- George Burns&&&&&&I ain't no leftist!-Bob Dylan&&&&"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce
 
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nankerphelge
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #6807 - Aug 12th, 2009 at 9:34am
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Here a fact check for ya.
Your Prez said yesterday at the oh-so-scripted Town Hall meeting that he was tired of the crazy stories about his health care reform bill.  Like the idea that there would be death committes and stuff.

And yet, look what he said a few months ago.


April 29 (Bloomberg) -- President Barack Obama said his grandmother’s hip-replacement surgery during the final weeks of her life made him wonder whether expensive procedures for the terminally ill reflect a “sustainable model” for health care.

The president’s grandmother, Madelyn Dunham, had a hip replaced after she was diagnosed with cancer, Obama said in an interview with the New York Times magazine that was published today. Dunham, who lived in Honolulu, died at the age of 86 on Nov. 2, 2008, two days before her grandson’s election victory.

***

Obama said “you just get into some very difficult moral issues” when considering whether “to give my grandmother, or everybody else’s aging grandparents or parents, a hip replacement when they’re terminally ill.

“That’s where I think you just get into some very difficult moral issues,” he said in the April 14 interview. “The chronically ill and those toward the end of their lives are accounting for potentially 80 percent of the total health- care bill out here.”
------------

Yeah that's it - some moral issues.


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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #6808 - Aug 12th, 2009 at 9:56am
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nankerphelge wrote on Aug 12th, 2009 at 9:34am:
Here a fact check for ya.
Your Prez said yesterday at the oh-so-scripted Town Hall meeting that he was tired of the crazy stories about his health care reform bill.  Like the idea that there would be death committes and stuff.

And yet, look what he said a few months ago.


April 29 (Bloomberg) -- President Barack Obama said his grandmother’s hip-replacement surgery during the final weeks of her life made him wonder whether expensive procedures for the terminally ill reflect a “sustainable model” for health care.

The president’s grandmother, Madelyn Dunham, had a hip replaced after she was diagnosed with cancer, Obama said in an interview with the New York Times magazine that was published today. Dunham, who lived in Honolulu, died at the age of 86 on Nov. 2, 2008, two days before her grandson’s election victory.

***

Obama said “you just get into some very difficult moral issues” when considering whether “to give my grandmother, or everybody else’s aging grandparents or parents, a hip replacement when they’re terminally ill.

“That’s where I think you just get into some very difficult moral issues,” he said in the April 14 interview. “The chronically ill and those toward the end of their lives are accounting for potentially 80 percent of the total health- care bill out here.”
------------

Yeah that's it - some moral issues.





Sounds reasonable to me. Difficult moral issues indeed.
Terminally ill and getting a hip replacement?

Your thoughts, where am I wrong?
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #6809 - Aug 12th, 2009 at 9:57am
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Here's the late great Ronald Wilson Reagan explaining public health care, and it's dangers and un-Americanism of it better than anyone. I would advise all you liberals to take a listen to this great man, and then perhaps it will come into focus for you.

To think that this is the same nation that once had this great man as president! Obummer isn't even close to the greatness of this man. The greatest president of the 20th century, and it's not even close!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRdLpem-AAs



Riffy
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« Last Edit: Aug 12th, 2009 at 10:34am by Riffhard »  

...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&"When all government...in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided...” Thomas Jefferson&&&&"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases." — Thomas Jefferson&&&&&&&&We're not old men.We don't bother about petty morals--Keef&&&&Actually, it only takes one drink to get me loaded. Trouble is, I can't remember if it's the thirteenth or fourteenth. &&-- George Burns&&&&&&I ain't no leftist!-Bob Dylan&&&&"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce
 
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #6810 - Aug 12th, 2009 at 10:02am
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fuman wrote on Aug 12th, 2009 at 9:56am:
nankerphelge wrote on Aug 12th, 2009 at 9:34am:
Here a fact check for ya.
Your Prez said yesterday at the oh-so-scripted Town Hall meeting that he was tired of the crazy stories about his health care reform bill.  Like the idea that there would be death committes and stuff.

And yet, look what he said a few months ago.


April 29 (Bloomberg) -- President Barack Obama said his grandmother’s hip-replacement surgery during the final weeks of her life made him wonder whether expensive procedures for the terminally ill reflect a “sustainable model” for health care.

The president’s grandmother, Madelyn Dunham, had a hip replaced after she was diagnosed with cancer, Obama said in an interview with the New York Times magazine that was published today. Dunham, who lived in Honolulu, died at the age of 86 on Nov. 2, 2008, two days before her grandson’s election victory.

***

Obama said “you just get into some very difficult moral issues” when considering whether “to give my grandmother, or everybody else’s aging grandparents or parents, a hip replacement when they’re terminally ill.

“That’s where I think you just get into some very difficult moral issues,” he said in the April 14 interview. “The chronically ill and those toward the end of their lives are accounting for potentially 80 percent of the total health- care bill out here.”
------------

Yeah that's it - some moral issues.





Sounds reasonable to me. Difficult moral issues indeed.
Terminally ill and getting a hip replacement?

Your thoughts, where am I wrong?




I'll tell you what funman. You tell your terminally ill mother that not only will she be dead in six months to a year, but thanks to socialized medicine she also will not be able to walk. You think the government has the right to make that call?! Pretty slippery slope there funman. Kinda makes Palin's comments seem a bit more believable. I mean we know damned good and well that Downs Syndrome people cost considerably more to treat over the course of their lives. Now a government panel will determine if that life is worth it.




Riffy
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« Last Edit: Aug 12th, 2009 at 10:03am by Riffhard »  

...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&"When all government...in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided...” Thomas Jefferson&&&&"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases." — Thomas Jefferson&&&&&&&&We're not old men.We don't bother about petty morals--Keef&&&&Actually, it only takes one drink to get me loaded. Trouble is, I can't remember if it's the thirteenth or fourteenth. &&-- George Burns&&&&&&I ain't no leftist!-Bob Dylan&&&&"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce
 
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #6811 - Aug 12th, 2009 at 10:04am
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"Sounds reasonable to me. Difficult moral issues indeed.
Terminally ill and getting a hip replacement?"

Okay so you have a parent - maybe 80 years old, in declining health, and they need a hip replacement. 
They could live for a year or two or maybe even 5, but they would have a better quality of life from the hip problem.

Is Obama suggesting that the government plan would allow for a denial of the hip replacement because some government person or group thinks your parent is going to die too soon to warrant that replacement. 

Does that sound reasonable to you fuman?

And if so, you may want to think about brain replacement surgery


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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #6812 - Aug 12th, 2009 at 10:14am
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Edith Grove wrote on Aug 11th, 2009 at 6:14pm:
Interesting, and for me believable!

                 Now you know why the Government is in the shape that it's in!
                 Could anyone be this DUMB?

                 YES, THEY WALK AMONG US, ARE IN POLITICS, AND THEY CONTINUE TO BREED.


                 I don't write it, I just offer it for your consideration. Like manure, you just gotta spread it around.



...

http://www.snopes.com/travel/trap/congress.asp  

Actually it's funny, but not true.  It's been making the rounds since 1998 and was originally put forth as a collection of stories told by various travel agents, not one guy from the DC airport, about ordinary people, not members of congress.  There's no proof that the original stories were true either, but it's easy to compare these stories to ones told 10 years ago and see that someone just changed the laughable protagonists into politicians.

Fact-checking only takes a matter of seconds.

Another untruth:  you actually DON'T have to spread untruths around.

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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #6813 - Aug 12th, 2009 at 10:15am
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nankerphelge wrote on Aug 12th, 2009 at 10:04am:
"Sounds reasonable to me. Difficult moral issues indeed.
Terminally ill and getting a hip replacement?"

Okay so you have a parent - maybe 80 years old, in declining health, and they need a hip replacement.  
They could live for a year or two or maybe even 5, but they would have a better quality of life from the hip problem.

Is Obama suggesting that the government plan would allow for a denial of the hip replacement because some government person or group thinks your parent is going to die too soon to warrant that replacement.  

Does that sound reasonable to you fuman?

And if so, you may want to think about brain replacement surgery





First off, I don't think there is a favorable possibility of a brain replacement, so I would opt out of that procedure.
Maybe just a reeducation program might do the trick?

Denial of hip replacement procedures certainly are made by the current "for profit" HMO's, agreed?

That a person might live for a year or two or maybe even 5, and they would have a better quality of life from the hip problem is the exact moral dilemma.
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #6814 - Aug 12th, 2009 at 10:18am
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All I know is I am home sick and have seen clips from yesterday's meeting.


I see an arrogant, flippant man who feels he is above the "average Joe." (Yes I know. They are all "plants"  Roll Eyes )
So smug it sickens me. It did from DAY 1 and continues today.

One of our local Reps to Congress, Brian Higgins, is REFUSING TO MEET WITH HIS CONSTITUENTS!!! Needless to say, the fine people of Western New York, those that have stayed here all their lives and paid HIGLY in taxes for it, are NOT AMUSED.

Trouble is brewing everywhere and it's grass roots.
Nice to see the people standing up for themselves isn't it????

LJ.
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #6815 - Aug 12th, 2009 at 10:21am
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Jesus Christ wrote on Aug 12th, 2009 at 10:14am:
Edith Grove wrote on Aug 11th, 2009 at 6:14pm:
Interesting, and for me believable!

                 Now you know why the Government is in the shape that it's in!
                 Could anyone be this DUMB?

                 YES, THEY WALK AMONG US, ARE IN POLITICS, AND THEY CONTINUE TO BREED.


                 I don't write it, I just offer it for your consideration. Like manure, you just gotta spread it around.



...

http://www.snopes.com/travel/trap/congress.asp  

Actually it's funny, but not true.  It's been making the rounds since 1998 and was originally put forth as a collection of stories told by various travel agents, not one guy from the DC airport, about ordinary people, not members of congress.  There's no proof that the original stories were true either, but it's easy to compare these stories to ones told 10 years ago and see that someone just changed the laughable protagonists into politicians.

Fact-checking only takes a matter of seconds.

Another untruth:  you actually DON'T have to spread untruths around.





Hey JC perhaps you can put your fancy little truth detector on the words of the CBO?


Here's another one for your truth detector. Is it true that Obama sucks with teeth? I say yes!



Riffy
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...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&"When all government...in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided...” Thomas Jefferson&&&&"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases." — Thomas Jefferson&&&&&&&&We're not old men.We don't bother about petty morals--Keef&&&&Actually, it only takes one drink to get me loaded. Trouble is, I can't remember if it's the thirteenth or fourteenth. &&-- George Burns&&&&&&I ain't no leftist!-Bob Dylan&&&&"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce
 
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #6816 - Aug 12th, 2009 at 10:25am
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fuman wrote on Aug 12th, 2009 at 10:15am:
nankerphelge wrote on Aug 12th, 2009 at 10:04am:
"Sounds reasonable to me. Difficult moral issues indeed.
Terminally ill and getting a hip replacement?"

Okay so you have a parent - maybe 80 years old, in declining health, and they need a hip replacement.  
They could live for a year or two or maybe even 5, but they would have a better quality of life from the hip problem.

Is Obama suggesting that the government plan would allow for a denial of the hip replacement because some government person or group thinks your parent is going to die too soon to warrant that replacement.  

Does that sound reasonable to you fuman?

And if so, you may want to think about brain replacement surgery





First off, I don't think there is a favorable possibility of a brain replacement, so I would opt out of that procedure.
Maybe just a reeducation program might do the trick?

Denial of hip replacement procedures certainly are made by the current "for profit" HMO's, agreed?

That a person might live for a year or two or maybe even 5, and they would have a better quality of life from the hip problem is the exact moral dilemma.


Moral dilemma for WHOM???????????????
This should be an issue for the patient, his/her family, his/her Doctor.
GOVERNMENT HAS NO PLACE HERE. NONE. ZIP.

GOVERNMENT HAS NO PLACE WITH REGARDS TO A WOMEN'S RIGHT TO CHOOSE!
GOVERNMENT HAS NO PLACE IN MY/YOUR BEDROOM WITH REGARDS TO SEXUAL PREFERENCE/PRACTICES!
HOW IS THIS DIFFERENT??????????????????????

LJ.
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...
 
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #6817 - Aug 12th, 2009 at 10:32am
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LadyJane wrote on Aug 12th, 2009 at 10:18am:
All I know is I am home sick and have seen clips from yesterday's meeting.


I see an arrogant, flippant man who feels he is above the "average Joe." (Yes I know. They are all "plants"  Roll Eyes )
So smug it sickens me. It did from DAY 1 and continues today.

One of our local Reps to Congress, Brian Higgins, is REFUSING TO MEET WITH HIS CONSTITUENTS!!! Needless to say, the fine people of Western New York, those that have stayed here all their lives and paid HIGLY in taxes for it, are NOT AMUSED.

Trouble is brewing everywhere and it's grass roots.
Nice to see the people standing up for themselves isn't it????

LJ.



Hey LJ how many times have I said to you on the phone that Obama will bring about the utter destruction of the Democrat Party? The problem with Obama (and some of his supporters on this site apparently don't see it) is that he is a very hard left ideologue. Many who voted for him did so out of nothing more than disillusionment of eight years of Bush. That would be fine except for one very big underlying problem. The media was complicit in keeping his very hard left history buried. Any time that that history saw the light of day the media were quick to jump to Barry's defence, "That's nothing more than right wing talking points! That's just guilt by association!....) The problem is that his past is exactly what made him the man that he is today. It's no shock at all that he would be pursuing hard left policies. And even though some people (see funman) can't see that he is decidedly socialist in his thinking, many people are starting to see it plain as day. It's no coincidence that his numbers are sinking faster than any president's since before WWII. Yes, even faster than Bush's!


Go listen to that link that I posted with Reagan talking about socialized medicne. It could have been stated yesterday. It is spot on!


Riffy
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...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&"When all government...in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided...” Thomas Jefferson&&&&"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases." — Thomas Jefferson&&&&&&&&We're not old men.We don't bother about petty morals--Keef&&&&Actually, it only takes one drink to get me loaded. Trouble is, I can't remember if it's the thirteenth or fourteenth. &&-- George Burns&&&&&&I ain't no leftist!-Bob Dylan&&&&"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce
 
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #6818 - Aug 12th, 2009 at 10:41am
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Hey JC could I borrow your truth detector? I just need to run this story by it. I think there may be some truth here, but I can't be sure.

Oh, and funman, I would STRONGLY ADVISE YOU TO WATCH THIS VIDEO. Here's where socialized/nationalized medicine leads. Always leads! Remember there is zero incentive for profit, and all incentive for savings. This video proves that point better than anything I, or anyone else could say.


I double dog dare you to watch this video! This destroys every single argument that liberals make. It destroys them utterly, and finally. Spin your way out of this story libs. Again, I double dog dare ya to watch! Hell, I triple dog dare ya!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEK_GH7sgcc&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Efacebook%2Eco...



Riffy
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...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&"When all government...in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided...” Thomas Jefferson&&&&"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases." — Thomas Jefferson&&&&&&&&We're not old men.We don't bother about petty morals--Keef&&&&Actually, it only takes one drink to get me loaded. Trouble is, I can't remember if it's the thirteenth or fourteenth. &&-- George Burns&&&&&&I ain't no leftist!-Bob Dylan&&&&"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce
 
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #6819 - Aug 12th, 2009 at 11:07am
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Riffhard wrote on Aug 12th, 2009 at 10:02am:
fuman wrote on Aug 12th, 2009 at 9:56am:
nankerphelge wrote on Aug 12th, 2009 at 9:34am:
Here a fact check for ya.
Your Prez said yesterday at the oh-so-scripted Town Hall meeting that he was tired of the crazy stories about his health care reform bill.  Like the idea that there would be death committes and stuff.

And yet, look what he said a few months ago.


April 29 (Bloomberg) -- President Barack Obama said his grandmother’s hip-replacement surgery during the final weeks of her life made him wonder whether expensive procedures for the terminally ill reflect a “sustainable model” for health care.

The president’s grandmother, Madelyn Dunham, had a hip replaced after she was diagnosed with cancer, Obama said in an interview with the New York Times magazine that was published today. Dunham, who lived in Honolulu, died at the age of 86 on Nov. 2, 2008, two days before her grandson’s election victory.

***

Obama said “you just get into some very difficult moral issues” when considering whether “to give my grandmother, or everybody else’s aging grandparents or parents, a hip replacement when they’re terminally ill.

“That’s where I think you just get into some very difficult moral issues,” he said in the April 14 interview. “The chronically ill and those toward the end of their lives are accounting for potentially 80 percent of the total health- care bill out here.”
------------

Yeah that's it - some moral issues.





Sounds reasonable to me. Difficult moral issues indeed.
Terminally ill and getting a hip replacement?

Your thoughts, where am I wrong?



I'll tell you what funman. You tell your terminally ill mother that not only will she be dead in six months to a year, but thanks to socialized medicine she also will not be able to walk. You think the government has the right to make that call?! Pretty slippery slope there funman. Kinda makes Palin's comments seem a bit more believable. I mean we know damned good and well that Downs Syndrome people cost considerably more to treat over the course of their lives. Now a government panel will determine if that life is worth it.


Riffy



...

So exactly WHERE, in the interview excerpted above or anywhere else, does it say that a Government Death Panel will decide the fate of your poor old grandma? Or Sarah Palin's Down Syndrome baby?

The "Death Panel" lie arose from a provision being discussed which would allow insurance to pay for end of life counseling IF it was requested BY THE PATIENT. Call me a drone - oh, that's right, you do that anyway - but that doesn't seem very evil to me. I wish former Governor Palin would support the troops and stop makin' stuff up. It's gettin' harder to tell the chachakos from the sourdoughs. (wink)

And...after railing about how the liberal press should keep her children out of their comments...why does SHE continue to drag them into hers?

As far as the healthcare "debate" (sic) - I'm pretty sure you guys will get your way - the insurance companies will continue to man the Death Panels for the foreseeable future, and the American Healthcare System which is the "Envy of the World" (or laughing stock, depending on who you ask)  will continue to have Profit as its motivating factor, rather than health or care or anything as ridiculous as that. 
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...&&&&"Hey, JC go fuck yourself you little bitch!" - Riffhard&&&&"...Jesus was...a tranny. " - Nankerphelge&&&&&&&&
 
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #6820 - Aug 12th, 2009 at 11:15am
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
Jesus Christ wrote on Aug 12th, 2009 at 11:07am:
Riffhard wrote on Aug 12th, 2009 at 10:02am:
fuman wrote on Aug 12th, 2009 at 9:56am:
nankerphelge wrote on Aug 12th, 2009 at 9:34am:
Here a fact check for ya.
Your Prez said yesterday at the oh-so-scripted Town Hall meeting that he was tired of the crazy stories about his health care reform bill.  Like the idea that there would be death committes and stuff.

And yet, look what he said a few months ago.


April 29 (Bloomberg) -- President Barack Obama said his grandmother’s hip-replacement surgery during the final weeks of her life made him wonder whether expensive procedures for the terminally ill reflect a “sustainable model” for health care.

The president’s grandmother, Madelyn Dunham, had a hip replaced after she was diagnosed with cancer, Obama said in an interview with the New York Times magazine that was published today. Dunham, who lived in Honolulu, died at the age of 86 on Nov. 2, 2008, two days before her grandson’s election victory.

***

Obama said “you just get into some very difficult moral issues” when considering whether “to give my grandmother, or everybody else’s aging grandparents or parents, a hip replacement when they’re terminally ill.

“That’s where I think you just get into some very difficult moral issues,” he said in the April 14 interview. “The chronically ill and those toward the end of their lives are accounting for potentially 80 percent of the total health- care bill out here.”
------------

Yeah that's it - some moral issues.





Sounds reasonable to me. Difficult moral issues indeed.
Terminally ill and getting a hip replacement?

Your thoughts, where am I wrong?



I'll tell you what funman. You tell your terminally ill mother that not only will she be dead in six months to a year, but thanks to socialized medicine she also will not be able to walk. You think the government has the right to make that call?! Pretty slippery slope there funman. Kinda makes Palin's comments seem a bit more believable. I mean we know damned good and well that Downs Syndrome people cost considerably more to treat over the course of their lives. Now a government panel will determine if that life is worth it.


Riffy



...

So exactly WHERE, in the interview excerpted above or anywhere else, does it say that a Government Death Panel will decide the fate of your poor old grandma? Or Sarah Palin's Down Syndrome baby?

The "Death Panel" lie arose from a provision being discussed which would allow insurance to pay for end of life counseling IF it was requested BY THE PATIENT. Call me a drone - oh, that's right, you do that anyway - but that doesn't seem very evil to me. I wish former Governor Palin would support the troops and stop makin' stuff up. It's gettin' harder to tell the chachakos from the sourdoughs. (wink)

And...after railing about how the liberal press should keep her children out of their comments...why does SHE continue to drag them into hers?

As far as the healthcare "debate" (sic) - I'm pretty sure you guys will get your way - the insurance companies will continue to man the Death Panels for the foreseeable future, and the American Healthcare System which is the "Envy of the World" (or laughing stock, depending on who you ask)  will continue to have Profit as its motivating factor, rather than health or care or anything as ridiculous as that.  



Here's some truth for you JC/Flea. Anyone that supports government sponsored health care is an idiot that refuses to learn from history. In other words, you are an idiot. Did you watch the video I posted above? It pretty much deconstructs and destroys your shortsighted view of health care. See JC/Flea, Oregon already has a state run plan, and the citizens of that state hate it. Hate it! Plus they tried to kill a woman to save a few shekels. How very enlightened and progressive they are, huh? Liberals run Oregon, and liberals tried to talk a lady into just accepting death. How humane! Oh, and guess who gave this woman the drugs that she needed to live? It was the big bad pharmaceutical industry!


Riffy
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...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&"When all government...in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided...” Thomas Jefferson&&&&"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases." — Thomas Jefferson&&&&&&&&We're not old men.We don't bother about petty morals--Keef&&&&Actually, it only takes one drink to get me loaded. Trouble is, I can't remember if it's the thirteenth or fourteenth. &&-- George Burns&&&&&&I ain't no leftist!-Bob Dylan&&&&"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce
 
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #6821 - Aug 12th, 2009 at 11:29am
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Here's some more truth for JC/Flea and the other Obamadrones.


Check these listings from Craigslist in Cali.


Classic! Time to rally the astroturf drones!


Aug 11 - *Help CURE the Health Care Crisis & MAKE MONEY* $9-$13/hr, FT* - (East Sacramento) img <<nonprofit

Aug 7 - Make social change - Help Pass Obama's Health Care Reform!!! - (Sacramento) img <<et cetera

Aug 4 - Help pass Obama's Health Care Reform!!! Earn $9-14 an hour!!! - (Sacramento) img <<et cetera

Aug 3 - ***Help Pass Obama's Health Care Plan and Earn $325-$500/Week - (Sacramento, CA) img <<nonprofit

Jul 31 - Help Pass Obama's Health Care Reform! Earn $325-550 per week! - (Sacramento) img <<et cetera

Jul 29 - Work to Pass Obama's Plans this Summer! Earn $9-14/hr! - (Sacramento) img <<et cetera

Jul 28 - Build Support for Obama's Plans!!! Earn $325-550 a Week! - (Sacramento) img <<nonprofit

Jul 27 - HELP PASS OBAMA'S PLANS AND EARN $325-550 A WEEK!!! - (Berkeley) img <<nonprofit

Jul 27 - HELP PASS OBAMA'S PLANS AND EARN $325-550 A WEEK!!! - (Sacramento) img <<et cetera

Jul 23 - HELP PASS OBAMA'S PLAN TO FIGHT GLOBAL WARMING! EARN $9-14/HOUR!!! - (Sacramento) img <<et cetera

Jul 21 - BUILD PUBLIC SUPPORT FOR OBAMA'S PLAN & EARN $9-14 AN HOUR!!! - (Sacramento) img <<nonprofit

Jul 15 - Make $350-550 per Week Working for OBAMA's PROGRESSIVE AGENDA!!! - (Sacramento) img <<nonprofit

Jul 14 - SUMMER CAMPAIGN STAFF POSITIONS AVAILABLE!!! EARN $350-550 A WEEK! - (Sacramento) img <<et cetera


I wonder where the money is coming from to pay these drones? Gee, do ya think any tax payer money could be at work here? Surely not?!



Riffy




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...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&"When all government...in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided...” Thomas Jefferson&&&&"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases." — Thomas Jefferson&&&&&&&&We're not old men.We don't bother about petty morals--Keef&&&&Actually, it only takes one drink to get me loaded. Trouble is, I can't remember if it's the thirteenth or fourteenth. &&-- George Burns&&&&&&I ain't no leftist!-Bob Dylan&&&&"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce
 
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #6822 - Aug 12th, 2009 at 11:46am
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Riffhard wrote on Aug 12th, 2009 at 9:57am:
Here's the late great Ronald Wilson Reagan explaining public health care, and it's dangers and un-Americanism of it better than anyone. I would advise all you liberals to take a listen to this great man, and then perhaps it will come into focus for you.

To think that this is the same nation that once had this great man as president! Obummer isn't even close to the greatness of this man. The greatest president of the 20th century, and it's not even close!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRdLpem-AAs



Riffy



I remember the Reagan administration's proposal to replace vegetables with ketchup and relish (public school hot lunch's).

They said at the time (paraphrasing) "kids won't eat the vegetables, so lets give them what they want".
Hmmm, it has nothing to do with cutting out an expense for other people's children?
Nutritionally equivalent?
Money, money, money, money? (Almost gives one a boner just reading those words)

Reagan was not an intelligent man. He does have a favorable poll, true. Neil Young still says he liked him, but it's not based on policy.
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #6823 - Aug 12th, 2009 at 11:55am
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LadyJane wrote on Aug 12th, 2009 at 10:25am:
fuman wrote on Aug 12th, 2009 at 10:15am:
nankerphelge wrote on Aug 12th, 2009 at 10:04am:
"Sounds reasonable to me. Difficult moral issues indeed.
Terminally ill and getting a hip replacement?"

Okay so you have a parent - maybe 80 years old, in declining health, and they need a hip replacement.  
They could live for a year or two or maybe even 5, but they would have a better quality of life from the hip problem.

Is Obama suggesting that the government plan would allow for a denial of the hip replacement because some government person or group thinks your parent is going to die too soon to warrant that replacement.  

Does that sound reasonable to you fuman?

And if so, you may want to think about brain replacement surgery





First off, I don't think there is a favorable possibility of a brain replacement, so I would opt out of that procedure.
Maybe just a reeducation program might do the trick?

Denial of hip replacement procedures certainly are made by the current "for profit" HMO's, agreed?

That a person might live for a year or two or maybe even 5, and they would have a better quality of life from the hip problem is the exact moral dilemma.


Moral dilemma for WHOM???????????????
This should be an issue for the patient, his/her family, his/her Doctor.
GOVERNMENT HAS NO PLACE HERE. NONE. ZIP.

GOVERNMENT HAS NO PLACE WITH REGARDS TO A WOMEN'S RIGHT TO CHOOSE!
GOVERNMENT HAS NO PLACE IN MY/YOUR BEDROOM WITH REGARDS TO SEXUAL PREFERENCE/PRACTICES!
HOW IS THIS DIFFERENT??????????????????????

LJ.



I didn't think that I conceded the point that our government should/would decide. I don't like the fact that private industry currently decides either.

Just saying that "I see the dilemma" of putting a new coat of paint on a car that doesn't run (sorry for the gross analogy).

Hope you feel better soon. Been very sick the past few days myself, but feeling stronger everyday (love that song).
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #6824 - Aug 12th, 2009 at 1:01pm
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fuman wrote on Aug 12th, 2009 at 11:46am:
Riffhard wrote on Aug 12th, 2009 at 9:57am:
Here's the late great Ronald Wilson Reagan explaining public health care, and it's dangers and un-Americanism of it better than anyone. I would advise all you liberals to take a listen to this great man, and then perhaps it will come into focus for you.

To think that this is the same nation that once had this great man as president! Obummer isn't even close to the greatness of this man. The greatest president of the 20th century, and it's not even close!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRdLpem-AAs



Riffy




Reagan was not an intelligent man. He does have a favorable poll, true. Neil Young still says he liked him, but it's not based on policy.



You have just invalidated your entire argument with this partisan idiotic quote. He was intelligent enough to win the largest landslide election victory in modern US election history. Not to mention unseat the worst president (at that time) in US history. Tip O'Neil often said that Reagan was not only the nicest man he'd worked against, but also the most politically savvy and intelligent person inside the Beltway. Perhaps you'd like to claim that you know better than Tip O'Neil?


You are beyond a drone. You are a staunch partisan hack who would never ever change your position even when facts have proven your position is wrong.

I have shown videos that prove that Obama wants a single payer system. Did that help change your attitude? No you refused to believe what you just saw with your own eyes, and heard with your own ears.

I show you a video that proves that state run health care is all about saving money, and has dick all to do with actually helping people live longer. Did that change your position? No. You are an ideological hack. Facts mean nothing to you when they don't jibe with point of view.



Riffy
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...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&"When all government...in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided...” Thomas Jefferson&&&&"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases." — Thomas Jefferson&&&&&&&&We're not old men.We don't bother about petty morals--Keef&&&&Actually, it only takes one drink to get me loaded. Trouble is, I can't remember if it's the thirteenth or fourteenth. &&-- George Burns&&&&&&I ain't no leftist!-Bob Dylan&&&&"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce
 
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