Riffhard wrote on Apr 24^th, 2009 at 1:08pm:

It's nice to know that you live in a world where the United States is limited to the ethical options of emulating either Pol Pot or al Qaeda.  I would say that I expected this sort of moral barbarism from the reactionary right, but as the saying goes, "Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!"

Brainy

Starbuck wrote on Apr 21^st, 2009 at 7:33pm:

Sorry, Bubbaleh, I've been serving my country for decades. And youse?

3 years, 8 months & 26 days...

Saint Sway wrote on Apr 24^th, 2009 at 11:41am:



I DO have a little bit of first hand knowledge on torture.
OUCH!


Riffhard sayeth:

I love how only liberals are the ones that can determine
what is and what is not torture. It's not up to liberals to
make that call! It's up to the guys in the field!


According to Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., himself a torture victim
during the Vietnam War, the water board technique is a "very
exquisite torture" that should be outlawed.
(ABC News, Nov. 29, 2005 )

Although that's a little confusing because, since it IS torture,
it already is outlawed. And the news that "it's up to the guys
in the field" to decide what constitutes torture should come
as a surprise to everyone, including the guys in the field.

>We are hated by Islamic Fundamentalists BECAUSE WE EXIST.<

Well.....that and our forgeign policy.

Keith Olbermann Interviews Abu Ghraib Former Commander
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyez4uBPC4I

Ten Thousand Motels wrote on Apr 24^th, 2009 at 2:39pm:



Hey TTM can you please cite any, and all, instances of the arrest and convictions of any Islamic radicals by their own side for the maltreatment of American prisoners? I would love to read about that.

See the thing that liberals have such a tough time with is the fact that Americans were tried and convicted for the treatment of those inmates at Abu Ghraib. Even that isn't good enough for the liberal. They have no problem ignoring the evil done against Americans. Hell even that they try and blame on American policy! They only focus on the faults of America and never the greatness of America. For the liberal the only answer that will be accepted is the trial and conviction of senior Bush Administration officials. They would jump with glee at the chance to see Rumsfeld, Cheney, and Bush in prison. Never mind the fact that Bush and his administration kept us safe for the years following 9/11. That means nothing to the liberal! They will never accept the fact that Bush had anything to do with that fact. Only a conviction at the highest level will satiate their bloodlust and hatered of Bush. They hate Bush more than they hate the evil fucks that want us all dead! I give the ACLU as a prime example of this fact! Followed very very closely by Soros, Olberfuck, Media Matters, MSNBC,...and on and on and on and on and on...


Riffy

Riffhard wrote on Apr 24^th, 2009 at 2:58pm:



Fair enough. By this description I can now say I'm not a liberal. Thanks.

Thomas Jefferson -
Timeless Brilliance
4-24-9

John Kennedy once said to a assembled group of scholars in the White House,  "I think this is the most extraordinary collection of talent, of human knowledge, that has ever been gathered at the White House - with the possible exception of when Thomas Jefferson dined alone."
 
 
The quotes below prove his point.
 
When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe   
-Thomas Jefferson

 
The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. 
-Thomas Jefferson

 
It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world. 
-Thomas Jefferson

 
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. 
-Thomas Jefferson

 
My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government. 
-Thomas Jefferson

 
No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. 
-Thomas Jefferson

 
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. 
-Thomas Jefferson

 
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.. 
-Thomas Jefferson

 
 
In light of the present financial crisis, it's interesting to read what Thomas Jefferson said in 1802:
 
Banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. 
 
http://www.brainyquote.com ;

See that right there is a point on which well reasoned folks may argue. Though I would argue that peole that hold your opinion are not very well reasoned at all considering the enemy we face. I, for one, feel that allowing a group of Islamists intent on killing as many Americans as possible to succeed in their evil endeavor by not using harsh interrogation methods is considerably more immoral than doing what it takes to save those innocent lives.

Are you saying that the morally proper thing to do is to allow the deaths of thousands? Because whether you are willing to admit it or not that is exactly what you are "positing".

We did arrest a group of southeast Asian men inside the US with plans to commit a follow up attack on LA. That attack was thwarted by the intel gained by waterboarding KLM. That's not speculation. That is fact, and many people are going to be forced to testify to that fact by deposition should Barry Co. continue with this political vendetta. If that happens then this whole escapade is going to blow up in his face, and the faces of every liberal that is so intent on punishing Bush and his senior Administration officials.


I am so sure of this fact that I will wager right here and now that Barry is going to drop this issue well before we get to the deposition phase of a trial. There is a very real reason that so many of those CIA memos were redacted. They proved that we did, in fact, stop future attacks, and made many arrests because of this supposed torture of the mastermind of the worst attack ever on US soil.

It must be nice to be morally upright when the weight of the presidency isn't on your shoulders. When you are tasked with preventing an attack against US citizens then perhaps you'd be singing a different tune. In fact I feel certain you would be. Either that or you surrender the lives of perhaps thousands because you have an ideology that willingly ignores the evil that these suspects live with every day of their miserable lives.


Riffy

Ten Thousand Motels wrote on Apr 24^th, 2009 at 3:42pm:



This is perhaps the best post that I have ever had the pleasure to read from you TTM!

Now I would ask every person that has been following this thread go through those brilliant Jefferson quotes one at a time and ask yourself a question after reading each one. What Would Obama Do? WWOD?


Frighteningly enough those quotes are in direct conflict with the very policies that Barry always adopts. Every single Jefferson quote shows that Obama does not believe in the very core values that has made this nation so great, or, in fact, the great man that uttered those brilliant quotes. Quotes that prove Jefferson's enormous brilliance while at the same time proving the pure ineptness of our current president.



Riffy

TTM, you bore me. No offense.


As for the torture debate, I'm not four square behind actually torturing people. But BUT BUT it's nice to have the threat. And in rare cases, it should be used. Sorry, I'm just one of those people who cares about my country. I wish everyone did too.

Quote:


Bored?
Wake up and smell the chemtrails.