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Question: What item is most likely found in the top drawer of Riffy's dresser?

naked pictures of Reagan    
  5 (20.0%)
Barry O voodoo doll    
  3 (12.0%)
Hoffa's body    
  2 (8.0%)
DVDs of "saved by the bell", season 3    
  1 (4.0%)
JC's boss's phone number    
  2 (8.0%)
bucket of chicken    
  5 (20.0%)
three sticks of "secret" deoderant, labels facing out    
  3 (12.0%)
"Eagles Greatest Hits" CD    
  4 (16.0%)




Total votes: 25
« Last Modified by: Starbuck on: Mar 3rd, 2010 at 5:01pm »

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Obama elected President (Read 623,465 times)
Ten Thousand Motels
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #4125 - Apr 5th, 2009 at 12:00pm
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fuman wrote on Apr 5th, 2009 at 11:56am:
Ten Thousand Motels wrote on Apr 5th, 2009 at 11:50am:
fuman wrote on Apr 5th, 2009 at 11:28am:
Perhaps the issue is more complicated than you or I can understand.
. . .


Absolutely Fuman.

But it might have been better to shoot it down. Who knows for sure? The US I believe has alot more nuclear firepower on the Korean Penninsula than that nut Jong. So he knows that any nuclear attack on  South Korea will result in his own obliteration.....the problem is that the guy is a whacko....so who knows.....isn't this what we pay our diplomats for? The Chinese, and possibly the Russians, are the only ones with any leverage over the guy.  



I would bet that we got ALL of the missile telemetry, and now have a solid understanding of their capability. We probably will learned where they are GETTING technology for their missile program. And most importantly, how to defeat the guidance system.

Just saying that it isn't always as straight forward as it seems.


It isn't all black and white. Here's some stuff to wade through.
Gordon Prather
http://www.antiwar.com/prather/
It will be interesting to read what he has to say about this launch.
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« Last Edit: Apr 5th, 2009 at 12:01pm by Ten Thousand Motels »  
 
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #4126 - Apr 5th, 2009 at 12:14pm
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fuman wrote on Apr 5th, 2009 at 11:56am:
Ten Thousand Motels wrote on Apr 5th, 2009 at 11:50am:
fuman wrote on Apr 5th, 2009 at 11:28am:
Perhaps the issue is more complicated than you or I can understand.
. . .


Absolutely Fuman.

But it might have been better to shoot it down. Who knows for sure? The US I believe has alot more nuclear firepower on the Korean Penninsula than that nut Jong. So he knows that any nuclear attack on  South Korea will result in his own obliteration.....the problem is that the guy is a whacko....so who knows.....isn't this what we pay our diplomats for? The Chinese, and possibly the Russians, are the only ones with any leverage over the guy.  



I would bet that we got ALL of the missile telemetry, and now have a solid understanding of their capability. We probably will learned where they are GETTING technology for their missile program. And most importantly, how to defeat the guidance system.

Just saying that it isn't always as straight forward as it seems.



funman what you seemingly have no problem ignoring is the message that our non-response sends to not only NK, but to every other nation that certainly doesn't have our best interests in mind. Iran got as much information about Barry's foreign policy passiveness as did NK! If you think that doing nothing but filing a UN complaint is good foreign policy then perhaps you can get work in Barry's State Department. So far what we've seen from Barry Co. has been childish ignorance about how the world works, and how the world at large perceives the USA as a leader. This is a failure and you can't paper over it. NK tested not only an intercontinental missile, but also tested our resolve as a country. Barry Co. failed that test. NK would never have tested that missle had McCain been president, and if they did, the response from the US would have been drastically different.


Riffy
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« Last Edit: Apr 5th, 2009 at 12:16pm by Riffhard »  

...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&"When all government...in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided...” Thomas Jefferson&&&&"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases." — Thomas Jefferson&&&&&&&&We're not old men.We don't bother about petty morals--Keef&&&&Actually, it only takes one drink to get me loaded. Trouble is, I can't remember if it's the thirteenth or fourteenth. &&-- George Burns&&&&&&I ain't no leftist!-Bob Dylan&&&&"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce
 
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #4127 - Apr 5th, 2009 at 12:29pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
Riffhard wrote on Apr 5th, 2009 at 12:14pm:
fuman wrote on Apr 5th, 2009 at 11:56am:
Ten Thousand Motels wrote on Apr 5th, 2009 at 11:50am:
fuman wrote on Apr 5th, 2009 at 11:28am:
Perhaps the issue is more complicated than you or I can understand.
. . .


Absolutely Fuman.

But it might have been better to shoot it down. Who knows for sure? The US I believe has alot more nuclear firepower on the Korean Penninsula than that nut Jong. So he knows that any nuclear attack on  South Korea will result in his own obliteration.....the problem is that the guy is a whacko....so who knows.....isn't this what we pay our diplomats for? The Chinese, and possibly the Russians, are the only ones with any leverage over the guy. 



I would bet that we got ALL of the missile telemetry, and now have a solid understanding of their capability. We probably will learned where they are GETTING technology for their missile program. And most importantly, how to defeat the guidance system.

Just saying that it isn't always as straight forward as it seems.



funman what you seemingly have no problem ignoring is the message that our non-response sends to not only NK, but to every other nation that ceratinly doesn't have our best interests in mind. Iran got as much information about Barry's foreign policy passiveness as did NK! If you think that doing nothing but filing a UN complaint is good foreign policy then perhaps you can get work in Barry's State Department. So far what we've seen from Barry Co. has been childish ignorance about how the world works, and how the world at large perceives the USA as a leader. This is a failure and you can't paper over it. NK tested not only an intercontinental missile, but also tested our resolve as a country. Barry Co. failed that test. NK would never have tested that missle had McCain been president, and if they did, the response from the US would have been drastically different.


Riffy


I agree that the UN is a joke, but I don't think Iran "got as much information". I believe the message we have sent over the years is that when you have nukes, we will step cautiously. Look at Pakistan for example. This is why a nuke program will benefit developing nations. I wish this wasn't the case, but believe it is.

I am content with the way the world views the USA as a leader. Not in every case, but most.

And I believe that the we WERE partly responsible for the Soviets invading Georgia. I heard arguments from both sides regarding the invasion. And what was W's response? I guess our "resolve" was shown to the world. In W's defense, he is privy to what is in Putin's soul, and thus Putin's intentions, so maybe W knew it wasn't worth starting a direct engagement of the Soviet Army.

I DO NOT believe that the McCain response would have been different to the North Korean missile, well, except for the rhetoric.
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« Last Edit: Apr 5th, 2009 at 12:30pm by fuman »  
 
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Ten Thousand Motels
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #4128 - Apr 5th, 2009 at 12:29pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
Riffhard wrote on Apr 5th, 2009 at 12:14pm:
fuman wrote on Apr 5th, 2009 at 11:56am:
Ten Thousand Motels wrote on Apr 5th, 2009 at 11:50am:
fuman wrote on Apr 5th, 2009 at 11:28am:
Perhaps the issue is more complicated than you or I can understand.
. . .


Absolutely Fuman.

But it might have been better to shoot it down. Who knows for sure? The US I believe has alot more nuclear firepower on the Korean Penninsula than that nut Jong. So he knows that any nuclear attack on  South Korea will result in his own obliteration.....the problem is that the guy is a whacko....so who knows.....isn't this what we pay our diplomats for? The Chinese, and possibly the Russians, are the only ones with any leverage over the guy.  



I would bet that we got ALL of the missile telemetry, and now have a solid understanding of their capability. We probably will learned where they are GETTING technology for their missile program. And most importantly, how to defeat the guidance system.

Just saying that it isn't always as straight forward as it seems.



funman what you seemingly have no problem ignoring is the message that our non-response sends to not only NK, but to every other nation that certainly doesn't have our best interests in mind. Iran got as much information about Barry's foreign policy passiveness as did NK! If you think that doing nothing but filing a UN complaint is good foreign policy then perhaps you can get work in Barry's State Department. So far what we've seen from Barry Co. has been childish ignorance about how the world works, and how the world at large perceives the USA as a leader. This is a failure and you can't paper over it. NK tested not only an intercontinental missile, but also tested our resolve as a country. Barry Co. failed that test. NK would never have tested that missle had McCain been president, and if they did, the response from the US would have been drastically different.


Riffy


What should we have done? Shot it down? I don't think the American response would have been any different with McCain. I imagine the US consulted with Japan, South Korea, China and others and decided to take a pass.
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #4129 - Apr 5th, 2009 at 12:50pm
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Oh yeah - way too complicated to understand/

Crazy man has nukes and ICBMs and gives the entire international community the bird versus incompetent US leader who is chatting up the idea of nuke disarmament.

Whew - heady stuff there!!!

How about sitting down one-on-one with N. Korea (which the Bush Admin did, incidently) to try and prevent North Korea from further development of an ICBM deliver device to launch the nukes it has developed?

How about backing up the BOLD statement by Obama that we would use our ICBM interceptor missiles (PS - we don't use the old Gulf War technology to shoot down ICBMs) -- if you say you are gonna do it, then do it.  Now we look even more weak by not following up.

In short, Obama & Co. could have done just about everything better than they did!
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #4130 - Apr 5th, 2009 at 12:59pm
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We did nothing. Spin that all you want. Iran learned a lot. A whole lot.


Let's talk about the debt that Barry's budget is going to lay on us, shall we? Did you know that when this budget is signed into law that every single household in America will get handed a bill for $68,000.00? This bill is nothing more than economic child abuse. Barry, Pelosi, Reid, and the rest of the hard left idiots will be long gone when this bill comes due. With inflation tacked on we're looking at well over 10 trillion dollars, and that dosen't even take the trillions already spent, and the idiotic healthcare proposal coming soon into account! That's right. This budget is the most dangerously irresponsible budget ever passed! Not one Republican voted for it. Barry Co. and the Democrats own this insanity outright. The damage that this will cause longterm to our economy is stunning! It's a larger debt than we have incurred in the past 232 years combinded! Barry can tax "the rich" at a tax rate of 100% and it would still take over a century to pay this debt off! And you think he knows what the hell he is doing?! Anyone that voted for this shit budget just told the next three generations of Americans to fuck off. They have no legal recourse to stop the spending of their money and their future labor, and some are just fine with that! Stunning.

I never thought I'd see the day when a US president would sell out his own country both domestically and internationally, but sadly, that day has come. He's an ideologue folks. He dosen't appreciate the greatness of America. He sees a country with more problems than solutions. His own solutions are to talk down the economy in order to completly restructure the economic playing field, and garner more governmental control. He truly wants to spread the wealth around. By "spread the wealth", of course, he means to take from the achievers and to give to the underachievers out of some kind of ideologic "fairness". If you think that he's right then you're not only falling into the socialist abyss, but you're also totally ignorant of world history and the history and misery that socialism has caused. I would pity you, but you're screwing my childrens' futures as well so I can only mock you with the righteous scorn that you deserve. Stop being an Obamadrone and look at what this man is doing to our collective futures! I mean he is all about collectiveness afterall! Well he is collectively screwing all of us as well as our children. Wake up.

Riffy
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...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&"When all government...in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided...” Thomas Jefferson&&&&"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases." — Thomas Jefferson&&&&&&&&We're not old men.We don't bother about petty morals--Keef&&&&Actually, it only takes one drink to get me loaded. Trouble is, I can't remember if it's the thirteenth or fourteenth. &&-- George Burns&&&&&&I ain't no leftist!-Bob Dylan&&&&"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce
 
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #4131 - Apr 5th, 2009 at 1:03pm
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>I never thought I'd see the day when a US president would sell out his own country both domestically and internationally, but sadly, that day has come.<

Well.....you could start with Woodrow Wilson.
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #4132 - Apr 5th, 2009 at 1:03pm
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nankerphelge wrote on Apr 5th, 2009 at 12:50pm:
Oh yeah - way too complicated to understand/

Crazy man has nukes and ICBMs and gives the entire international community the bird versus incompetent US leader who is chatting up the idea of nuke disarmament.

Whew - heady stuff there!!!

How about sitting down one-on-one with N. Korea (which the Bush Admin did, incidently) to try and prevent North Korea from further development of an ICBM deliver device to launch the nukes it has developed?

How about backing up the BOLD statement by Obama that we would use our ICBM interceptor missiles (PS - we don't use the old Gulf War technology to shoot down ICBMs) -- if you say you are gonna do it, then do it.  Now we look even more weak by not following up.

In short, Obama & Co. could have done just about everything better than they did!



Well, does North Korea have ICBM's? I think not. They may be getting there though. We now know how close they are. Seems like a pretty important thing to understand for our negotiators. I personally feel that monitoring the missile was the correct thing to do.

Nuclear Disarmament is a very important issue. Especially the Soviet Nukes that are falling apart in financially depressed Soviet bloc nations. There is evidence that these old weapons could be sold to our enemies, if they haven't been already.

I never heard the President say that we WILL shoot it down. Not saying it didn't happen, just that I never heard him say it.
Certainly doesn't sound like our President, sounds more like W. Maybe he said COULD, but doubt he said WOULD.

I don't fear that we look weak to the world. I would think that most of the world is still pretty cautious about America, after 8 years of Cheney.
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #4133 - Apr 5th, 2009 at 1:06pm
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fuman wrote on Apr 5th, 2009 at 1:03pm:
nankerphelge wrote on Apr 5th, 2009 at 12:50pm:
Oh yeah - way too complicated to understand/

Crazy man has nukes and ICBMs and gives the entire international community the bird versus incompetent US leader who is chatting up the idea of nuke disarmament.

Whew - heady stuff there!!!

How about sitting down one-on-one with N. Korea (which the Bush Admin did, incidently) to try and prevent North Korea from further development of an ICBM deliver device to launch the nukes it has developed?

How about backing up the BOLD statement by Obama that we would use our ICBM interceptor missiles (PS - we don't use the old Gulf War technology to shoot down ICBMs) -- if you say you are gonna do it, then do it.  Now we look even more weak by not following up.

In short, Obama & Co. could have done just about everything better than they did!



Well, does North Korea have ICBM's? I think not.



funman the missile that North Korea just launched WAS an ICBM!!!!

Geesh!



Riffy
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...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&"When all government...in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided...” Thomas Jefferson&&&&"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases." — Thomas Jefferson&&&&&&&&We're not old men.We don't bother about petty morals--Keef&&&&Actually, it only takes one drink to get me loaded. Trouble is, I can't remember if it's the thirteenth or fourteenth. &&-- George Burns&&&&&&I ain't no leftist!-Bob Dylan&&&&"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce
 
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #4134 - Apr 5th, 2009 at 1:19pm
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Anyone???
This current discussion is ALMOST comical; stakes are frighteningly too high however.

...

LJ.
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...
 
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #4135 - Apr 5th, 2009 at 1:26pm
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Riffhard wrote on Apr 5th, 2009 at 1:06pm:
fuman wrote on Apr 5th, 2009 at 1:03pm:
nankerphelge wrote on Apr 5th, 2009 at 12:50pm:
Oh yeah - way too complicated to understand/

Crazy man has nukes and ICBMs and gives the entire international community the bird versus incompetent US leader who is chatting up the idea of nuke disarmament.

Whew - heady stuff there!!!

How about sitting down one-on-one with N. Korea (which the Bush Admin did, incidently) to try and prevent North Korea from further development of an ICBM deliver device to launch the nukes it has developed?

How about backing up the BOLD statement by Obama that we would use our ICBM interceptor missiles (PS - we don't use the old Gulf War technology to shoot down ICBMs) -- if you say you are gonna do it, then do it.  Now we look even more weak by not following up.

In short, Obama & Co. could have done just about everything better than they did!



Well, does North Korea have ICBM's? I think not.



funman the missile that North Korea just launched WAS an ICBM!!!!

Geesh!



Riffy



Not if it failed, and there has never been a successful North Korean ICBM.
It was just a big missile IMO.

They're just posturing, trying to get attention.
You're just looking for any reason to disagree with our President.
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #4136 - Apr 5th, 2009 at 1:37pm
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Let me get this straight. In your opinion it was just a big missile, right? So the fact that it had a range that means that it could be placed on another continent thus being the very definition of an ICBM means what to you exactly? When is an ICBM an ICBM to you? When it is enroute to Anchorage or Honolulu? I'm just trying to determine how your definition differs from the rest of the world's, that's all.


Riffy
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...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&"When all government...in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided...” Thomas Jefferson&&&&"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases." — Thomas Jefferson&&&&&&&&We're not old men.We don't bother about petty morals--Keef&&&&Actually, it only takes one drink to get me loaded. Trouble is, I can't remember if it's the thirteenth or fourteenth. &&-- George Burns&&&&&&I ain't no leftist!-Bob Dylan&&&&"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce
 
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #4137 - Apr 5th, 2009 at 1:52pm
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Back to the economy though. This is a very frightening read. Moreso because, once again, Obamadrones are willfully blind to this kind of massive governement expansion at the cost of our individual liberty and money. They are either willfully blind to it, or worse yet, in complete agreement with this massive swing towards federal takeover of the private sector.



Riffy

_______________________________________

Obama Wants to Control the Banks


There's a reason he refuses to accept repayment of TARP money.



By STUART VARNEY

I must be naive. I really thought the administration would welcome the return of bank bailout money. Some $340 million in TARP cash flowed back this week from four small banks in Louisiana, New York, Indiana and California. This isn't much when we routinely talk in trillions, but clearly that money has not been wasted or otherwise sunk down Wall Street's black hole. So why no cheering as the cash comes back?

My answer: The government wants to control the banks, just as it now controls GM and Chrysler, and will surely control the health industry in the not-too-distant future. Keeping them TARP-stuffed is the key to control. And for this intensely political president, mere influence is not enough. The White House wants to tell 'em what to do. Control. Direct. Command.

It is not for nothing that rage has been turned on those wicked financiers. The banks are at the core of the administration's thrust: By managing the money, government can steer the whole economy even more firmly down the left fork in the road.

If the banks are forced to keep TARP cash -- which was often forced on them in the first place -- the Obama team can work its will on the financial system to unprecedented degree. That's what's happening right now.

Here's a true story first reported by my Fox News colleague Andrew Napolitano (with the names and some details obscured to prevent retaliation). Under the Bush team a prominent and profitable bank, under threat of a damaging public audit, was forced to accept less than $1 billion of TARP money. The government insisted on buying a new class of preferred stock which gave it a tiny, minority position. The money flowed to the bank. Arguably, back then, the Bush administration was acting for purely economic reasons. It wanted to recapitalize the banks to halt a financial panic.

Fast forward to today, and that same bank is begging to give the money back. The chairman offers to write a check, now, with interest. He's been sitting on the cash for months and has felt the dead hand of government threatening to run his business and dictate pay scales. He sees the writing on the wall and he wants out. But the Obama team says no, since unlike the smaller banks that gave their TARP money back, this bank is far more prominent. The bank has also been threatened with "adverse" consequences if its chairman persists. That's politics talking, not economics.

Think about it: If Rick Wagoner can be fired and compact cars can be mandated, why can't a bank with a vault full of TARP money be told where to lend? And since politics drives this administration, why can't special loans and terms be offered to favored constituents, favored industries, or even favored regions? Our prosperity has never been based on the political allocation of credit -- until now.

Which brings me to the Pay for Performance Act, just passed by the House. This is an outstanding example of class warfare. I'm an Englishman. We invented class warfare, and I know it when I see it. This legislation allows the administration to dictate pay for anyone working in any company that takes a dime of TARP money. This is a whip with which to thrash the unpopular bankers, a tool to advance the Obama administration's goal of controlling the financial system.

After 35 years in America, I never thought I would see this. I still can't quite believe we will sit by as this crisis is used to hand control of our economy over to government. But here we are, on the brink. Clearly, I have been naive.

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...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&"When all government...in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided...” Thomas Jefferson&&&&"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases." — Thomas Jefferson&&&&&&&&We're not old men.We don't bother about petty morals--Keef&&&&Actually, it only takes one drink to get me loaded. Trouble is, I can't remember if it's the thirteenth or fourteenth. &&-- George Burns&&&&&&I ain't no leftist!-Bob Dylan&&&&"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce
 
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #4138 - Apr 5th, 2009 at 1:57pm
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Riffhard wrote on Apr 5th, 2009 at 1:37pm:
Let me get this straight. In your opinion it was just a big missile, right? So the fact that it had a range that means that it could be placed on another continent thus being the very definition of an ICBM means what to you exactly? When is an ICBM an ICBM to you? When it is enroute to Anchorage or Honolulu? I'm just trying to determine how your definition differs from the rest of the world's, that's all.


Riffy



You're right. I was playing with definitions there. Still believe that what we learned was more important than shooting an anti-ballistic missile at it. We surely learned tons, as much as North Korea learned if not more.

Do you really believe that North Korea would use a nuclear armed missile against anyone?
Or Iran? Yeah, I heard the rhetoric. They want nukes to deter us, that's all.
It's the radical muslims that worry me.
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #4139 - Apr 5th, 2009 at 2:02pm
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The Cost of Running a Global Empire
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article9759.html
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #4140 - Apr 5th, 2009 at 2:22pm
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Riffhard wrote on Apr 5th, 2009 at 1:52pm:
Back to the economy though. This is a very frightening read. Moreso because, once again, Obamadrones are willfully blind to this kind of massive governement expansion at the cost of our individual liberty and money. They are either willfully blind to it, or worse yet, in complete agreement with this massive swing towards federal takeover of the private sector.



Riffy

_______________________________________

Obama Wants to Control the Banks


There's a reason he refuses to accept repayment of TARP money.



By STUART VARNEY

I must be naive. I really thought the administration would welcome the return of bank bailout money. Some $340 million in TARP cash flowed back this week from four small banks in Louisiana, New York, Indiana and California. This isn't much when we routinely talk in trillions, but clearly that money has not been wasted or otherwise sunk down Wall Street's black hole. So why no cheering as the cash comes back?

My answer: The government wants to control the banks, just as it now controls GM and Chrysler, and will surely control the health industry in the not-too-distant future. Keeping them TARP-stuffed is the key to control. And for this intensely political president, mere influence is not enough. The White House wants to tell 'em what to do. Control. Direct. Command.

It is not for nothing that rage has been turned on those wicked financiers. The banks are at the core of the administration's thrust: By managing the money, government can steer the whole economy even more firmly down the left fork in the road.

If the banks are forced to keep TARP cash -- which was often forced on them in the first place -- the Obama team can work its will on the financial system to unprecedented degree. That's what's happening right now.

Here's a true story first reported by my Fox News colleague Andrew Napolitano (with the names and some details obscured to prevent retaliation). Under the Bush team a prominent and profitable bank, under threat of a damaging public audit, was forced to accept less than $1 billion of TARP money. The government insisted on buying a new class of preferred stock which gave it a tiny, minority position. The money flowed to the bank. Arguably, back then, the Bush administration was acting for purely economic reasons. It wanted to recapitalize the banks to halt a financial panic.

Fast forward to today, and that same bank is begging to give the money back. The chairman offers to write a check, now, with interest. He's been sitting on the cash for months and has felt the dead hand of government threatening to run his business and dictate pay scales. He sees the writing on the wall and he wants out. But the Obama team says no, since unlike the smaller banks that gave their TARP money back, this bank is far more prominent. The bank has also been threatened with "adverse" consequences if its chairman persists. That's politics talking, not economics.

Think about it: If Rick Wagoner can be fired and compact cars can be mandated, why can't a bank with a vault full of TARP money be told where to lend? And since politics drives this administration, why can't special loans and terms be offered to favored constituents, favored industries, or even favored regions? Our prosperity has never been based on the political allocation of credit -- until now.

Which brings me to the Pay for Performance Act, just passed by the House. This is an outstanding example of class warfare. I'm an Englishman. We invented class warfare, and I know it when I see it. This legislation allows the administration to dictate pay for anyone working in any company that takes a dime of TARP money. This is a whip with which to thrash the unpopular bankers, a tool to advance the Obama administration's goal of controlling the financial system.

After 35 years in America, I never thought I would see this. I still can't quite believe we will sit by as this crisis is used to hand control of our economy over to government. But here we are, on the brink. Clearly, I have been naive.




Once I saw the word Fox, I stopped. Say no more . . .

Fox is to news what professional wrestling is to sports.
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #4141 - Apr 5th, 2009 at 2:40pm
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fuman wrote on Apr 5th, 2009 at 2:22pm:
Riffhard wrote on Apr 5th, 2009 at 1:52pm:
Back to the economy though. This is a very frightening read. Moreso because, once again, Obamadrones are willfully blind to this kind of massive governement expansion at the cost of our individual liberty and money. They are either willfully blind to it, or worse yet, in complete agreement with this massive swing towards federal takeover of the private sector.



Riffy

_______________________________________

Obama Wants to Control the Banks


There's a reason he refuses to accept repayment of TARP money.



By STUART VARNEY

I must be naive. I really thought the administration would welcome the return of bank bailout money. Some $340 million in TARP cash flowed back this week from four small banks in Louisiana, New York, Indiana and California. This isn't much when we routinely talk in trillions, but clearly that money has not been wasted or otherwise sunk down Wall Street's black hole. So why no cheering as the cash comes back?

My answer: The government wants to control the banks, just as it now controls GM and Chrysler, and will surely control the health industry in the not-too-distant future. Keeping them TARP-stuffed is the key to control. And for this intensely political president, mere influence is not enough. The White House wants to tell 'em what to do. Control. Direct. Command.

It is not for nothing that rage has been turned on those wicked financiers. The banks are at the core of the administration's thrust: By managing the money, government can steer the whole economy even more firmly down the left fork in the road.

If the banks are forced to keep TARP cash -- which was often forced on them in the first place -- the Obama team can work its will on the financial system to unprecedented degree. That's what's happening right now.

Here's a true story first reported by my Fox News colleague Andrew Napolitano (with the names and some details obscured to prevent retaliation). Under the Bush team a prominent and profitable bank, under threat of a damaging public audit, was forced to accept less than $1 billion of TARP money. The government insisted on buying a new class of preferred stock which gave it a tiny, minority position. The money flowed to the bank. Arguably, back then, the Bush administration was acting for purely economic reasons. It wanted to recapitalize the banks to halt a financial panic.

Fast forward to today, and that same bank is begging to give the money back. The chairman offers to write a check, now, with interest. He's been sitting on the cash for months and has felt the dead hand of government threatening to run his business and dictate pay scales. He sees the writing on the wall and he wants out. But the Obama team says no, since unlike the smaller banks that gave their TARP money back, this bank is far more prominent. The bank has also been threatened with "adverse" consequences if its chairman persists. That's politics talking, not economics.

Think about it: If Rick Wagoner can be fired and compact cars can be mandated, why can't a bank with a vault full of TARP money be told where to lend? And since politics drives this administration, why can't special loans and terms be offered to favored constituents, favored industries, or even favored regions? Our prosperity has never been based on the political allocation of credit -- until now.

Which brings me to the Pay for Performance Act, just passed by the House. This is an outstanding example of class warfare. I'm an Englishman. We invented class warfare, and I know it when I see it. This legislation allows the administration to dictate pay for anyone working in any company that takes a dime of TARP money. This is a whip with which to thrash the unpopular bankers, a tool to advance the Obama administration's goal of controlling the financial system.

After 35 years in America, I never thought I would see this. I still can't quite believe we will sit by as this crisis is used to hand control of our economy over to government. But here we are, on the brink. Clearly, I have been naive.




Once I saw the word Fox, I stopped. Say no more . . .

Fox is to news what professional wrestling is to sports.



LOL! Thus you are an Obamadrone! Are there any lies in the article? No. Is this bank, among others, trying to pay back TARP funds only to be told, "No thanks" from the Administration? Yes. By keeping these banks in debt to the US federal government does the government now have total control over these leanding institutions? Yes.

You're a pretty funny guy funman. You never bring any facts to back up your positions, and you willfully ignore any and all facts that the other side presents. Facts be damned from both sides of your mouth! These facts can't be facts because they are presented by a Fox News contributor? Well would it make any difference to you that the article came from the Wall Street Journal? No. Of course not. Hey brother let me help you out here-facts are facts. Learn to live with them. Because some very striking facts are taking place right before your eyes, but you're so deep into Obamadronism that you're missing them.



Riffy
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...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&"When all government...in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided...” Thomas Jefferson&&&&"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases." — Thomas Jefferson&&&&&&&&We're not old men.We don't bother about petty morals--Keef&&&&Actually, it only takes one drink to get me loaded. Trouble is, I can't remember if it's the thirteenth or fourteenth. &&-- George Burns&&&&&&I ain't no leftist!-Bob Dylan&&&&"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce
 
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #4142 - Apr 5th, 2009 at 2:53pm
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There are facts, and then there are conclusions. I won't go into a rant about how stupid you are as you like to do to somehow prove you're right, but I will say that I don't agree with the conclusions.

I saw the photos of President Obama meeting with the top bankers, and also read that some (many?) wanted to give the money back. I agree that part is truthful. I don't agree with the conclusion the President Obama is trying to take over control of the nation. I don't believe we are planning to intern citizens in FEMA camps, I just hear so much crap from Fox that I have trouble with anything they say. I still read or listen as much as I can stand though.

I also have trouble with Chris Matthews, Keith Olbermann, Wolf Blitzer, John King, and many others. I prefer to listen to the CSPAN interviews and Charlie Rose (when it's political). Then I search out opposition pieces.

In my view, your opposition is all over the map, which tells me you just don't like the Dems policies. Ok. But the socialism rant is old, and will certainly be destined to the heap where the "he's a Muslim" rant lies dying.

In a little less than 4 years we will all have a chance cast our vote.
(or as ACORN tells us, vote early and vote often)
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #4143 - Apr 5th, 2009 at 3:25pm
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funman perhaps if you bothered to really acknowledge the facts then you wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the only too obvious conclusions.

For example. It is a fact that when Bush handed out the TARP funds initially it was on the grounds that those funds were to be paid back by the banks to the federal government thus to the American taxpayer. Are we good so far? You do acknowledge that fact, correct?

Okay then. So is it also a fact that some banks were forced into accepting TARP funds under threat from Paulson? Well, in fact, yes. That also is a fact. Are banks being show the back of Barry Co.'s hand when they want to make good on these loans that they were forced to accept? Again, yes. Now it is here, funman, that you and facts go your seperate ways.

The only obvious conclusion is that the US federal governement is trying to dictate the practices, lending and otherwise, of the US banking industry. Or least as much of it as they can. They have done the exact same thing with the automotive industry! Any industry that recived any stimulus money is now being put in the crosshairs of the Barry Co. Admin. By the way, that includes almost every industry in our country. What other logical explanation is there? Wait to see what they plan on for the pharmaceutical industry!

There isn't any other rational conclusion unless you are so delusional that you think otherwise. So you ignore the facts that are clearly available to you. Obama has already largely socialized the majority of the automotive industry. He is trying to socialize the banking industry. He has made no bones about his desire to socialize healthcare for all Americans, and you ignore these facts and draw conclusions that are completely at odds with what is happening before your very eyes!


I know an Obamadrone when I see one funman, and you are one.


Riffy
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...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&"When all government...in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided...” Thomas Jefferson&&&&"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases." — Thomas Jefferson&&&&&&&&We're not old men.We don't bother about petty morals--Keef&&&&Actually, it only takes one drink to get me loaded. Trouble is, I can't remember if it's the thirteenth or fourteenth. &&-- George Burns&&&&&&I ain't no leftist!-Bob Dylan&&&&"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce
 
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #4144 - Apr 5th, 2009 at 4:54pm
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Maybe we need 2 Prezzies - one Republican to handle the foreign policy & USSC appointments & one Dem to dole out $$$ to life's losers.
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #4145 - Apr 5th, 2009 at 5:03pm
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that little break did not help your postin'.
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #4146 - Apr 5th, 2009 at 6:28pm
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Quote:
Maybe we need 2 Prezzies - one Republican to handle the foreign policy & USSC appointments & one Dem to dole out $$$ to life's losers.



We just had that, sort of.

One to explain in simpler terms what was just discussed, and the other to then decide.
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #4147 - Apr 5th, 2009 at 6:42pm
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fuman wrote on Apr 5th, 2009 at 6:28pm:
Quote:
Maybe we need 2 Prezzies - one Republican to handle the foreign policy & USSC appointments & one Dem to dole out $$$ to life's losers.



We just had that, sort of.

One to explain in simpler terms what was just discussed, and the other to then decide.

The decider reference, well played.
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #4148 - Apr 5th, 2009 at 8:20pm
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fuman wrote on Apr 5th, 2009 at 6:28pm:
Quote:
Maybe we need 2 Prezzies - one Republican to handle the foreign policy & USSC appointments & one Dem to dole out $$$ to life's losers.



We just had that, sort of.

One to explain in simpler terms what was just discussed, and the other to then decide.



When all else fails we can whip the horse's eyes....err, I mean blame Bush.



Riffy
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...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&"When all government...in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided...” Thomas Jefferson&&&&"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases." — Thomas Jefferson&&&&&&&&We're not old men.We don't bother about petty morals--Keef&&&&Actually, it only takes one drink to get me loaded. Trouble is, I can't remember if it's the thirteenth or fourteenth. &&-- George Burns&&&&&&I ain't no leftist!-Bob Dylan&&&&"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce
 
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #4149 - Apr 5th, 2009 at 8:38pm
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No one has failed, just moving on.

You think that America is becoming socialist, I don't. I understand some of your concerns, but disagree. That's all.

I think back to General Motors in the 1980's, and how they (Roger Smith?) treated the American worker in their employ. GM laid off some 30,000 workers and moved these operations to Mexico where they paid fifty cents an hour to citizens of Mexico.
At the time, I was working at Hughes Aircraft, and GM had just purchased Hughes. Their directive to all exempt (exempt from labor laws) employees was a joke. That we shall work a minimum of 45 hours per week. At that time we were working close to 60 hours per week. So we took their directive and cut back our hours. I became a pretty good volleyball player with my spare time, and we had some great beach parties. The program slipped schedule, and we were offered over-time to speed up our effort.

It is with that experience that I weigh Obama's decision to request Wagoner to step aside, and I like it. Same with the banks. The bankers wanted to give the money back because they didn't want the pay limits that accompanied these funds. That's their reason. Fuck everybody else. Normally I would shudder at this new direction, but not these days. They are looking out for themselves and only themselves. These CEO's are EXTREMELY smart, and surely look down at the less intelligent minions. So screw them. The past eight years has transfered so much wealth to so few, and because of their self interest Obama has chosen to call them out. If I truly felt this was all a part of some socialist new direction, I would be as outraged as you appear to be.

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