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Question: What item is most likely found in the top drawer of Riffy's dresser?

naked pictures of Reagan    
  5 (20.0%)
Barry O voodoo doll    
  3 (12.0%)
Hoffa's body    
  2 (8.0%)
DVDs of "saved by the bell", season 3    
  1 (4.0%)
JC's boss's phone number    
  2 (8.0%)
bucket of chicken    
  5 (20.0%)
three sticks of "secret" deoderant, labels facing out    
  3 (12.0%)
"Eagles Greatest Hits" CD    
  4 (16.0%)




Total votes: 25
« Last Modified by: Starbuck on: Mar 3rd, 2010 at 5:01pm »

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Obama elected President (Read 622,175 times)
fuman
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #3725 - Mar 17th, 2009 at 1:48pm
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Starbuck wrote on Mar 17th, 2009 at 1:37pm:
fuman wrote on Mar 17th, 2009 at 1:24pm:
The USA isn't going away. Maybe we will get larger government, but why is that necessarily bad?


riffy! i'll field this one.

when i was in boot camp, one of the guys in my company was sent to the clinic to pick up some band aids for the company first aid box. he had to wait in line for over an hour...for a box of band aids. and they didn't even have scooby doo on them. this is what you get when the govt gets involved...massive inefficiency.

Quote:
If I had healthcare (National/Socialized), I would have one less thing to worry about. I am also willing to pay more in taxes to ensure that coverage for myself and fellow Americans. I think an honest debate on this issue is needed.


the tax increase that would be necessary to ensure decent health care for all americans would be so great, it would dwarf anything heretofore imaginable. that is bad. what will most likely be implemented is something that will cause the average person to wait in line for over an hour to get a box of band aids.

i want the govt to make sure canada doesn't invade and steal my rickenbackers. that's pretty much all i need it for. i don't need it to force me to sign on to a health care plan that is more expensive and less efficient than the one i already have.



Band-aids hardly are part of a safety net program. You should have to wait, in favor of more pressing medical attention. I hear your point that bureaucracies are usually inefficient, but I believe they can become efficient enough to provide their function. An hour wait for band-aids isn't a fair argument against national health care, in my opinion. Uninsured citizens currently go to hospital emergency care, which ends up costing the state much more in the end.

That you have coverage, and aren't willing to allow any inconvenience to this coverage is more to your point of opposition.
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nankerphelge
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #3726 - Mar 17th, 2009 at 1:49pm
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Yeah well good luck with that.
Determining where the "social safety net" begins and ends is the problem.
The federal government is not good at defining that, or providing efficiency to whatever scope of "protection" is ultimately chosen.  Look at Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, the Veterans' Admin -- 4 losers -- what makes you think federalizes anything will be any different? 

You bring up food safety -- yet you ignore the fact that the fedeal government is extremely inefficient at performing that function.  You have the FDA and USDA stepping all over each other as to who has jurisdiction over what.  The amount of oversight is minimal.  And some areas such as seafood are not regulated at all.  Perfect example of how the federal govenment cannot protect you efficiently or effectivley!!  Need more proof - go grab a spoonful of peanut butter, or some spinach, or ground beef!! How many recalls and deaths before you acknowldege that the feds are not the answer.

You mention education.  The federal government traditionally has not been in the business of educating the masses, despite liberal attempts to use the Department of Education to trump the state government control of schools.  And yes, private schools are great - why not hand control of education to the educators.  If one school outperforms another, than they are doing something right -- learn from that.  If you let the feds run it, you will settle for mediocrity and no choice.

You want a nanny state.
I don't.
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Brainbell Jangler
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #3727 - Mar 17th, 2009 at 1:51pm
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Riffhard wrote on Mar 17th, 2009 at 12:38pm:
Hey let's distract the moronic idiots drones by trying to blame the AIG execs! They'll never figure out that the bailouts are what caused this entire mess! Those execs got a few hundred million. Don't worry though. The drones are too fucking stupid to put two and two together! So what if we have wasted trillion upon trillion in tax payers' money! We must keep the drones focused on the measly few hundred million! Remember guys! Never let the left handed drone know what the right handed government is doing!


Riffy

"[T]he bailouts are what caused this entire mess!"???  Huh?  You mean, the way falling objects cause gravity?  Or the way injuries cause accidents?  Please elaborate.

And it's just a "measly few hundred million"?  Did you catch that, LJ and others struggling to pay the bills?  A few hundred million dollars is "measly" now?  Riffy, you're starting to sound like JB.

Brainy
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fuman
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #3728 - Mar 17th, 2009 at 2:07pm
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nankerphelge wrote on Mar 17th, 2009 at 1:49pm:
Yeah well good luck with that.
Determining where the "social safety net" begins and ends is the problem.
The federal government is not good at defining that, or providing efficiency to whatever scope of "protection" is ultimately chosen.  Look at Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, the Veterans' Admin -- 4 losers -- what makes you think federalizes anything will be any different? 

You bring up food safety -- yet you ignore the fact that the fedeal government is extremely inefficient at performing that function.  You have the FDA and USDA stepping all over each other as to who has jurisdiction over what.  The amount of oversight is minimal.  And some areas such as seafood are not regulated at all.  Perfect example of how the federal govenment cannot protect you efficiently or effectivley!!  Need more proof - go grab a spoonful of peanut butter, or some spinach, or ground beef!! How many recalls and deaths before you acknowldege that the feds are not the answer.

You mention education.  The federal government traditionally has not been in the business of educating the masses, despite liberal attempts to use the Department of Education to trump the state government control of schools.  And yes, private schools are great - why not hand control of education to the educators.  If one school outperforms another, than they are doing something right -- learn from that.  If you let the feds run it, you will settle for mediocrity and no choice.

You want a nanny state.
I don't.


I don't want a "nanny state", but I would like to see improvements to help those in need. Senor citizens and children are the most vulnerable, and I would like to see that change.

Determining where the "social safety net" begins and ends is a good place to argue the fine points. I understand your opposition based on this one concern.

The federal government under W failed miserably, true, but W didn't believe government could make a difference in these areas, and he proved himself right. Same with Reagan.

If government doesn't provide education for those who can't afford private school, where will that leave us as a nation?
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #3729 - Mar 17th, 2009 at 2:23pm
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Brainbell Jangler wrote on Mar 17th, 2009 at 1:51pm:
Riffhard wrote on Mar 17th, 2009 at 12:38pm:
Hey let's distract the moronic idiots drones by trying to blame the AIG execs! They'll never figure out that the bailouts are what caused this entire mess! Those execs got a few hundred million. Don't worry though. The drones are too fucking stupid to put two and two together! So what if we have wasted trillion upon trillion in tax payers' money! We must keep the drones focused on the measly few hundred million! Remember guys! Never let the left handed drone know what the right handed government is doing!


Riffy

"[T]he bailouts are what caused this entire mess!"???  Huh?  You mean, the way falling objects cause gravity?  Or the way injuries cause accidents?  Please elaborate.

And it's just a "measly few hundred million"?  Did you catch that, LJ and others struggling to pay the bills?  A few hundred million dollars is "measly" now?  Riffy, you're starting to sound like JB.

Brainy


The bailouts were put into place in an idiotic fashion. Everyone knows this BJ. Not to mention the fact that Chris Dodd knew full well that these bonuses were to be paid out. So too did the WH! Now they are acting as if they are shocked by this! That's crap! The bonuses represent less than one tenth of one percent of the money that AIG was given in the form of a bailout! In the grand scheme of things that is tiny! That is a gnat on an elephant's ass! So instead of focusing on the sheer incompetency of how this idiotic bailout was handled the WH and congress are now desperately trying to shift blame onto the execs that got the bonuses! Bonuses, I might add, that were written into the bailout package to begin with!


The WH is now trying to claim that they knew nothing of these prearranged bonus payments! They are either completely "out of the loop" with the all powerful Democrat controlled congress, or they are totally inept. Which one is it? I suspect it's a combination of both.



Riffy
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #3730 - Mar 17th, 2009 at 2:26pm
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fuman wrote on Mar 17th, 2009 at 2:07pm:
If government doesn't provide education for those who can't afford private school, where will that leave us as a nation?


perhaps a start would be to repeal NCLB and let the states take care of their own kids.
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fuman
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #3731 - Mar 17th, 2009 at 2:32pm
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Starbuck wrote on Mar 17th, 2009 at 2:26pm:
fuman wrote on Mar 17th, 2009 at 2:07pm:
If government doesn't provide education for those who can't afford private school, where will that leave us as a nation?


perhaps a start would be to repeal NCLB and let the states take care of their own kids.



That sounds like a good place to start a discussion. I don't know all of the opinions from both sides, but would love to follow that debate.
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #3732 - Mar 17th, 2009 at 2:52pm
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fuman wrote on Mar 17th, 2009 at 2:32pm:
Starbuck wrote on Mar 17th, 2009 at 2:26pm:
fuman wrote on Mar 17th, 2009 at 2:07pm:
If government doesn't provide education for those who can't afford private school, where will that leave us as a nation?


perhaps a start would be to repeal NCLB and let the states take care of their own kids.



That sounds like a good place to start a discussion. I don't know all of the opinions from both sides, but would love to follow that debate.


The problem here funman is that the government does NOT want any school competition! They have the teachers unions' in their pockets, and vice versa. Therefore anything that threatens that cozy relationship is quashed. Who said any damned thing about private schools being the only option? What about the school voucher program that would allow lower income parents decide which school their children attend based on the schools' academic record? What about the charter school programs? These programs offer a great answer! Guess who's against them vehemently? That's right! Teachers' unions and Democrats! You see funman this is not about helping poor kids. No, not at all! This is about politics!

Here check this video out! These kids are from DC and they go to a charter school. I should say that they went to a charter school program. They are now forced to go back to some of the worst public schools in the country. Guess who decided their fate? Here's a hint-Hope and Change!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKzZJoPu1OQ



Riffy
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...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&"When all government...in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided...” Thomas Jefferson&&&&"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases." — Thomas Jefferson&&&&&&&&We're not old men.We don't bother about petty morals--Keef&&&&Actually, it only takes one drink to get me loaded. Trouble is, I can't remember if it's the thirteenth or fourteenth. &&-- George Burns&&&&&&I ain't no leftist!-Bob Dylan&&&&"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce
 
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #3733 - Mar 17th, 2009 at 2:55pm
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Riffhard wrote on Mar 17th, 2009 at 2:23pm:
Brainbell Jangler wrote on Mar 17th, 2009 at 1:51pm:
Riffhard wrote on Mar 17th, 2009 at 12:38pm:
Hey let's distract the moronic idiots drones by trying to blame the AIG execs! They'll never figure out that the bailouts are what caused this entire mess! Those execs got a few hundred million. Don't worry though. The drones are too fucking stupid to put two and two together! So what if we have wasted trillion upon trillion in tax payers' money! We must keep the drones focused on the measly few hundred million! Remember guys! Never let the left handed drone know what the right handed government is doing!


Riffy

"[T]he bailouts are what caused this entire mess!"???  Huh?  You mean, the way falling objects cause gravity?  Or the way injuries cause accidents?  Please elaborate.

And it's just a "measly few hundred million"?  Did you catch that, LJ and others struggling to pay the bills?  A few hundred million dollars is "measly" now?  Riffy, you're starting to sound like JB.

Brainy


The bailouts were put into place in an idiotic fashion. Everyone knows this BJ. Not to mention the fact that Chris Dodd knew full well that these bonuses were to be paid out. So too did the WH! Now they are acting as if they are shocked by this! That's crap! The bonuses represent less than one tenth of one percent of the money that AIG was given in the form of a bailout! In the grand scheme of things that is tiny! That is a gnat on an elephant's ass!

Riffy


It's good to see you have perspective! The money being given out to help people avoid foreclosure is infinitesimal compared to the money being given to the 'gnats ass on an elephant"!

I would think that you of all people would be against rewarding ALL types of failure!
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« Last Edit: Mar 17th, 2009 at 2:57pm by monkey_man »  

...&&&&.........&&&&"In other words shut the hell up about what others believe. It only makes you look like a small minded snob. "&&&&Riffy
 
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fuman
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #3734 - Mar 17th, 2009 at 3:04pm
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Riffhard wrote on Mar 17th, 2009 at 2:52pm:
fuman wrote on Mar 17th, 2009 at 2:32pm:
Starbuck wrote on Mar 17th, 2009 at 2:26pm:
fuman wrote on Mar 17th, 2009 at 2:07pm:
If government doesn't provide education for those who can't afford private school, where will that leave us as a nation?


perhaps a start would be to repeal NCLB and let the states take care of their own kids.



That sounds like a good place to start a discussion. I don't know all of the opinions from both sides, but would love to follow that debate.


The problem here funman is that the government does NOT want any school competition! They have the teachers unions' in their pockets, and vice versa. Therefore anything that threatens that cozy relationship is quashed. Who said any damned thing about private schools being the only option? What about the school voucher program that would allow lower income parents decide which school their children attend based on the schools' academic record? What about the charter school programs? These programs offer a great answer! Guess who's against them vehemently? That's right! Teachers' unions and Democrats! You see funman this is not about helping poor kids. No, not at all! This is about politics!

Here check this video out! These kids are from DC and they go to a charter school. I should say that they went to a charter school program. They are now forced to go back to some of the worst public schools in the country. Guess who decided their fate? Here's a hint-Hope and Change!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKzZJoPu1OQ



Riffy



The teachers union isn't working, testing shows. They are able to hang on to poor performers.
I agree something must be done about that.

I still believe that the Federal Government must oversee the individual state programs. Separation of church and state is one reason for my position (Dover ID trial to be specific) .
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #3735 - Mar 17th, 2009 at 3:11pm
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Hey where are all the stock market quoters out there? The stock market hates Obama crowd . . . where are you? OK I'll quote the latest. . . .

...
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #3736 - Mar 17th, 2009 at 3:19pm
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monkey_man wrote on Mar 17th, 2009 at 2:55pm:
Riffhard wrote on Mar 17th, 2009 at 2:23pm:
Brainbell Jangler wrote on Mar 17th, 2009 at 1:51pm:
Riffhard wrote on Mar 17th, 2009 at 12:38pm:
Hey let's distract the moronic idiots drones by trying to blame the AIG execs! They'll never figure out that the bailouts are what caused this entire mess! Those execs got a few hundred million. Don't worry though. The drones are too fucking stupid to put two and two together! So what if we have wasted trillion upon trillion in tax payers' money! We must keep the drones focused on the measly few hundred million! Remember guys! Never let the left handed drone know what the right handed government is doing!


Riffy

"[T]he bailouts are what caused this entire mess!"???  Huh?  You mean, the way falling objects cause gravity?  Or the way injuries cause accidents?  Please elaborate.

And it's just a "measly few hundred million"?  Did you catch that, LJ and others struggling to pay the bills?  A few hundred million dollars is "measly" now?  Riffy, you're starting to sound like JB.

Brainy


The bailouts were put into place in an idiotic fashion. Everyone knows this BJ. Not to mention the fact that Chris Dodd knew full well that these bonuses were to be paid out. So too did the WH! Now they are acting as if they are shocked by this! That's crap! The bonuses represent less than one tenth of one percent of the money that AIG was given in the form of a bailout! In the grand scheme of things that is tiny! That is a gnat on an elephant's ass!

Riffy


It's good to see you have perspective! The money being given out to help people avoid foreclosure is infinitesimal compared to the money being given to the 'gnats ass on an elephant"!

I would think that you of all people would be against rewarding ALL types of failure!



I am in no way supporting these assinine bonuses m_m!! I am just pointing out the way that the WH and the Dem congress are using the bonuses as a grand distraction to the utter failure of the bailouts thus far! Hey, I was all for the first bailout because I was told by everyone in the media and our government that it was absolutely necessary. As it turns out much of that money can not be accounted for. So we the tax payers got screwed! Shocker!

Now with these latest bailouts and the upcoming budget debates the focus is being put on these AIG executives that received bonuses that were ORIGINALLY PUT IN WRITING as part of the bailout package! Everyone knew these bonuses were going to come due! Chris Dodd wrote the legislation FFS!! They knew when they agreed to it back in September! So now they risk pissing off the Golden Goose (read-you and I, the American taxpayer!) so what do they do? They demonize the executives that accepted the bonuses! Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice? It's never gonna happen! I know what these scumbag politicos are trying to do here. They're desperately trying to use any means at their disposal to distract the American people away from their own utter incompetency! Apparently some,even here, are falling for this political game of two card monte. I'm not!


This whole shitstorm got started because the federal government started to insert itself into the free market capitalist system with a series of insane public works schemes that coerced banks into making shitty loans. This idiocy spread like a virus and some scumbags in the business world saw that the government had pulled the federal trough up the the steps of Wall Street. Gee, imagine that!? Some people tried to take advantage of this influx of federal spending and easy to get loans! Had the federal government stayed the hell out of the way then none of this shit would have ever happened! Capitalism isn't the problem! Government trying to steer capitalism is the problem!


Riffy
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...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&"When all government...in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided...” Thomas Jefferson&&&&"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases." — Thomas Jefferson&&&&&&&&We're not old men.We don't bother about petty morals--Keef&&&&Actually, it only takes one drink to get me loaded. Trouble is, I can't remember if it's the thirteenth or fourteenth. &&-- George Burns&&&&&&I ain't no leftist!-Bob Dylan&&&&"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce
 
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fuman
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #3737 - Mar 17th, 2009 at 3:40pm
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Wow, is this real?

http://mediamatters.org/items/200903160026


Apparently, Fox News used old footage of Biden quoting McCain's statement that "the fundamentals of our economy are strong", but put it in the context that Biden has changed his mind about the fundamentals of our economy. Isn't that criminal? I think it is for a News channel to willfully misrepresent.
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #3738 - Mar 17th, 2009 at 4:09pm
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Riffhard wrote on Mar 17th, 2009 at 3:19pm:
monkey_man wrote on Mar 17th, 2009 at 2:55pm:
Riffhard wrote on Mar 17th, 2009 at 2:23pm:
Brainbell Jangler wrote on Mar 17th, 2009 at 1:51pm:
Riffhard wrote on Mar 17th, 2009 at 12:38pm:
Hey let's distract the moronic idiots drones by trying to blame the AIG execs! They'll never figure out that the bailouts are what caused this entire mess! Those execs got a few hundred million. Don't worry though. The drones are too fucking stupid to put two and two together! So what if we have wasted trillion upon trillion in tax payers' money! We must keep the drones focused on the measly few hundred million! Remember guys! Never let the left handed drone know what the right handed government is doing!


Riffy

"[T]he bailouts are what caused this entire mess!"???  Huh?  You mean, the way falling objects cause gravity?  Or the way injuries cause accidents?  Please elaborate.

And it's just a "measly few hundred million"?  Did you catch that, LJ and others struggling to pay the bills?  A few hundred million dollars is "measly" now?  Riffy, you're starting to sound like JB.

Brainy


The bailouts were put into place in an idiotic fashion. Everyone knows this BJ. Not to mention the fact that Chris Dodd knew full well that these bonuses were to be paid out. So too did the WH! Now they are acting as if they are shocked by this! That's crap! The bonuses represent less than one tenth of one percent of the money that AIG was given in the form of a bailout! In the grand scheme of things that is tiny! That is a gnat on an elephant's ass!

Riffy


It's good to see you have perspective! The money being given out to help people avoid foreclosure is infinitesimal compared to the money being given to the 'gnats ass on an elephant"!

I would think that you of all people would be against rewarding ALL types of failure!



I am in no way supporting these assinine bonuses m_m!! I am just pointing out the way that the WH and the Dem congress are using the bonuses as a grand distraction to the utter failure of the bailouts thus far! Hey, I was all for the first bailout because I was told by everyone in the media and our government that it was absolutely necessary. As it turns out much of that money can not be accounted for. So we the tax payers got screwed! Shocker!

Now with these latest bailouts and the upcoming budget debates the focus is being put on these AIG executives that received bonuses that were ORIGINALLY PUT IN WRITING as part of the bailout package! Everyone knew these bonuses were going to come due! Chris Dodd wrote the legislation FFS!! They knew when they agreed to it back in September! So now they risk pissing off the Golden Goose (read-you and I, the American taxpayer!) so what do they do? They demonize the executives that accepted the bonuses! Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice? It's never gonna happen! I know what these scumbag politicos are trying to do here. They're desperately trying to use any means at their disposal to distract the American people away from their own utter incompetency! Apparently some,even here, are falling for this political game of two card monte. I'm not!


This whole shitstorm got started because the federal government started to insert itself into the free market capitalist system with a series of insane public works schemes that coerced banks into making shitty loans. This idiocy spread like a virus and some scumbags in the business world saw that the government had pulled the federal trough up the the steps of Wall Street. Gee, imagine that!? Some people tried to take advantage of this influx of federal spending and easy to get loans! Had the federal government stayed the hell out of the way then none of this shit would have ever happened! Capitalism isn't the problem! Government trying to steer capitalism is the problem!


Riffy


So Riffy, just so I'm clear on your point. Which branch of the government made AIG commit massive insurance fraud with its uncollateralized credit default swaps?
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #3739 - Mar 17th, 2009 at 4:35pm
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"Isn't that criminal? I think it is for a News channel to willfully misrepresent."

Nah...

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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #3740 - Mar 17th, 2009 at 4:51pm
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"Okay, okay, everyone settle down now.  Yes we bailed out AIG and our esteemed Treasury Secretary missed the fine print that Senator Dodd put in the bailout bill that allowed the executives at AIG to get the bonuses.  But the President still has complete confidence in Secretary Geithner, and we are certain that either he or Senator Dodd will find some way to block those bonuses now even though they allowed them to happen.  Perhaps Senator Schumer has it right and will find a way to tax those bonuses.  The point is, no matter how ham-handed this Administration is, we always find a way to cover our asses."

...
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #3741 - Mar 17th, 2009 at 5:01pm
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Cheney Flat out Wrong: Bush Aministration is Responsible for the Damage to our Economy

March 16, 2009 - 3:04pm.
Capitol Hil lBlue - blog
www.capitolhillblue.com

Vice President Cheney recently asserted on CNN’s State of the Union that the Bush Misadministration should not be blamed for the current economic crisis. ISZATSO? Cheney neglects some basic facts about this economic crisis as he tries to avert responsibility for the economic wreckage we are currently experiencing. Eight years of the Bush Administration’s incompetence has left Americans poorer, America weaker, and our National Economic Security seriously damaged. There can be no doubt this economic Pearl Harbor was caused by The Bush Administration and the six years of a Republican controlled Congress that rubber stamped Bush/Cheney policies and budgets.

1) In the same way that Bush was warned about the impending attack of Al-Qaida before September 11, 2001 but chose to do nothing about it. So to the Bush administration was warned by the FBI in 2004 of the widespread mortgage fraud and chose to do nothing about it. [See Paul Shukovsky. “FBI saw mortgage fraud early,” (01-28-09) Seattle Post-Intelligencer. (03.14.09), ].

2) Similarly, we now know that for 10 years the SEC knew about the Madoff fraud but repeatedly chose to do nothing about it or even to investigate the evidence exposing it presented to them by whistleblower Harry Markopolos. The irresponsibility and incompetence of these Bush operatives on the SEC has led to the greatest investment fraud in American History, but it was entirely in line with other see no evil antics of the Bush Administration. [See Aaron Smith, “Madoff: ‘I knew this day would come,” (03.12.09), CNNMoney.Com, (03.14.09), ].

3) The Bush administration hid the expenses of the two wars it chose to fight, [see Adam Levine, “The dirtiest word in the budget,” (02.26.09), AC360, (3.14.09),
and savaged the economy by adding an additional $4 trillion in to the National Debt during its eight years in power. [See Mark Knoller, “Bush Administration Adds 4 Trillion to the National Debt,“ (9.29.08), CBS News: Couric & Co., (03.14.09), ].

4) The eight years of the Bush administration progressively damaged the economy as it looked the other way as wide spread looting of the American Treasury through government corruption and war profiteering, sweetheart deals and kickbacks, high level officials on the take, trillions of missing and unaccounted for dollars, non-bid contracts, as well as fraudulent contractor billing for reconstruction projects took place. [See Stephen Lendman, “Exposing Bush Administration Corruption,” (06.16.08), The Populist Party, (3.14.09), ]. Any honest description of the fiscal misbehavior of the last eight years would catalog the most astonishing lawlessness which gave away Billions to Bush’s Republican friends and allies.

5) Much of the financial crash we have experienced is directly the result of the Bush Administration’s deregulatory policies and incompetence. Bush’s allies in congress, especially conservatives such as Senator Phil Gramm, were strong voices for freeing the markets from regulation on the notion they would be self regulating. Hell bent to dismantle the New Deal safeguards against Stock market misbehavior, Conservatives in Congress promoted the massive use of risky new financial products as they shut down FDR’s long respected traditions of oversight and regulation. Their misguided notion that the markets could regulate themselves opened the flood gates for massive securities fraud, the results of which we see all around us in our disappearing 401Ks. [See “The Consequences of Conservative Policies in our Housing and Financial markets,” (10.21.08), Center for American Progress Action Fund, (3.14.09), ].

6) When the Bush administration’s wrecking crew had brought down the American Banking Industry, they launched the most audacious demand for $700 Billion to bail-out the banks, a fund they originally wanted complete control of without any oversight from Congress. [See David M. Herszenhorn, “Administration is Seeking $700 Billion for Wall Street,” (09.21.08), The New York Times, (03.14.09), ]. Even with the controls Congress demanded, we have lately discovered that in bailing out the banks there was some $78 billion given out which was not guaranteed by any asset whatsoever: a flat-out gift to the corporate friends of Bush and the Treasury Secretary. Scandalously, the Bush Administration poured $254 billion into financial institutions but received only $176 billion in value in return. [See Reuters, “Regulator Says Bailout Fund is Misleading the Public,” (02.06.09), New York Times, (03.14.09), ].

That the American Treasury and the personal wealth of American Investors and Retirees were looted during the Bush Administration is incontrovertible. The horror stories of the origins and effects of this wreckage continue to emerge almost daily. We should thank God that they were blocked from turning over Social Security funds to Wall Street. Let us admit that we are well rid of G. W. Bush and his looters. Let us hear no more that our current economic troubles were caused by anyone else but George W. Bush as president and chief cheerleader of his “anything goes” attitude towards government.
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #3742 - Mar 17th, 2009 at 5:04pm
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nankerphelge wrote on Mar 17th, 2009 at 4:35pm:
"Isn't that criminal? I think it is for a News channel to willfully misrepresent."

Nah...

...




Dan Rather had a document in his hands, that turned out to be false. Shame on him for not checking his source.

If the Fox story is accurate, they completely fabricated their story. Do you see my point?

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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #3743 - Mar 17th, 2009 at 5:24pm
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Ok, they (Fox News) admit the error:
******************************************
Martha MacCallum, co-anchor of the Fox News program "The Live Desk," apologized today after Fox News "inadvertently" used a six-month-old clip of Joe Biden talking about the economy.

The misleading segment featured splices of recent interviews with Obama administration officials discussing the state of the economy. One clip showed Joe Biden saying that the "fundamentals of the economy are strong." The Huffington Post reported yesterday that the clip of Biden was taken from a much earlier stump speech, and that he was repeating a statement John McCain made on the campaign trail.
******************************************


Really? They "inadvertently" used a six-month old clip? Thank goodness for the internet, eh?
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #3744 - Mar 17th, 2009 at 8:34pm
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monkey_man wrote on Mar 17th, 2009 at 4:09pm:
So Riffy, just so I'm clear on your point. Which branch of the government made AIG commit massive insurance fraud with its uncollateralized credit default swaps?



m_m I'm trying to make the larger point here. It's not which branch of government did or did not do with regards to AIG. My point is that the federal government inserted itself into the lending practices of banks. We know where that led. Andrew Cuomo is all over the place slamming this bonus crap, yet his hands are filthy! He was the Sec of Housing and Urban development for Clinton. Now he's Obama's Atty General. It was under his watch with Clinton that these ridiculous loans were pushed through. Pushed through under threat of federal government intervention mind you. Jamie Gorelick and Franklin Raines were, and still are, huge contributors towards Barack Obama and many many Democrats. They were filthy rich with misbegotten gains of some criminal book keeping by Fannie Mae under Franklin Raines! Are the Democrats that recieved massive political contributions going to be forced to return those contributions to the taxpayers?! NO! Hell no! Are any questions being put to Chris Dodd and Barney Frank for allowing this scandal to fly under the radar when they knew full well what was going on? No again! Hell no! The American people are being duped here, and most have no idea that the government was directly responsible for the majority of this whole mess.

So now AIG signs up for a massive government bailout because they too made some equally corrupt moves and the big bad government has it's scape goat! Bravo! Not a single word about Fannie and Freddie mind you! The AIG mess would never have happened had the government kept it's nose out of the banking industry! Nor would have the Fannie and Freddie crap. Or the other bank bailouts! It all comes back to the federal government messing with the free market capitalist system.

Remember that AIG had binding contracts with their executives concerning these bonuses. The government, with Chris Dodd signing off on them, knew full well that these bonuses had been agreed to months ago! Now they claim to be stunned at this "massive manipulation of taxpayer funding". That's a crap argument and anyone that has been paying attention knows it. The Obama Admin is hoping that the American people are nothing more than drones that can be manipulated, but make no mistake, the only manipulating going on here is from Barry Co. There are still drones out there that can be made to think that "evil capitalists" created this clusterfuck. However, the drone base, thankfully, is starting to get smaller. Some people are starting to wake up. I just hope that more of them wake up before the whole country succums to even more of the Obamainations of this inept Admin.



Riffy
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...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&"When all government...in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided...” Thomas Jefferson&&&&"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases." — Thomas Jefferson&&&&&&&&We're not old men.We don't bother about petty morals--Keef&&&&Actually, it only takes one drink to get me loaded. Trouble is, I can't remember if it's the thirteenth or fourteenth. &&-- George Burns&&&&&&I ain't no leftist!-Bob Dylan&&&&"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce
 
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #3745 - Mar 17th, 2009 at 8:56pm
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One more thing. I just wanted to point out the new sig that I have added to my profile.


Not that anyone with any sense dosen't know this already, but Thomas Jefferson and the other Founders knew full well the evils of socialism and huge government power grabs. What Obama, Pelosi, Reid, and the rest of the far left Democrats are doing is polarly opposite of what the Founders of this nation wanted or expected from the future leaders of this nation. That Barry Co. is so blatantly using an economic downturn to grab more power for a centralized socialist government should scare the ever loving shit out of every single American!


"When all government...in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided...”

Thomas Jefferson


What Barack Obama is trying to do is circumvent the US Constitution by doing exactly what Jefferson warns about in the quote above. Anyone that either denys this fact or ignores it is siding with tyranny. It's as simple as that.



That quote cannot be parsed or taken out of context. It stands as a true reflection of how the Founders thought, and also as to how prescient they were about the threat of ideologues and their own future designs on the nature of our rebublic. It's pathetic that more people can't, or refuse, to see what's going on here.


Riffy

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« Last Edit: Mar 17th, 2009 at 8:57pm by Riffhard »  

...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&"When all government...in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided...” Thomas Jefferson&&&&"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases." — Thomas Jefferson&&&&&&&&We're not old men.We don't bother about petty morals--Keef&&&&Actually, it only takes one drink to get me loaded. Trouble is, I can't remember if it's the thirteenth or fourteenth. &&-- George Burns&&&&&&I ain't no leftist!-Bob Dylan&&&&"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce
 
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #3746 - Mar 17th, 2009 at 10:47pm
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Chew on this Obama fans! I know that it's easy to try and lay the blame for the AIG bonus ruckus on Bush. Why? Because everthing is Bush's fault, right?

Well let's take a look at the top recepients of AIG's political contributions. Please pay particular close attention to the two top contibutees! Gee, good old Chris and Barry have a lot in common. They both got massive contributions from groups that illegally cooked the books! Fannie and Freddie, and also AIG. Also please note the politcal party that made out with a substancial amount of all donated contributions.


This disaster will end the day that the drones wake up. You are being lied to people. Wake up and smell the socialist funk!


Riffy

____________________________________________________

American International Group: RecipientsSelect Cycle:

Money to Congress: 2008 Cycle

House # of Members Average Contribution Total Contributions
Democrats 34 $3,069 $104,350
Republicans 21 $1,223 $25,693
Independents 0 $0 $0
TOTAL 55 $2,364 $130,043

The US House of Representatives has 435 members.

Senate # of Members Average Contribution Total Contributions
Democrats 18 $17,906 $322,322
Republicans 15 $6,816 $102,249
Independents 0 $0 $0
TOTAL 33 $12,865 $424,571

The US Senate has 100 members.

Top Recipients

Senate Dodd, Chris $103,100- I am stunned!
Senate Obama, Barack $101,332- Shocked I am! Shocked I say!
Senate McCain, John $59,499
Senate Clinton, Hillary $35,965
Senate Baucus, Max $24,750
Presidential Romney, Mitt $20,850
Senate Biden, Joseph R Jr $19,975
House Larson, John B $19,750
Senate Sununu, John E $18,500
Presidential Giuliani, Rudolph W $13,200
House Kanjorski, Paul E $12,000
Senate Durbin, Dick $11,000
House Perlmutter, Edwin G $10,500
House Rangel, Charles B $9,000
Presidential Edwards, John $7,850
Senate Corker, Bob $7,400
House Smith, Chris $6,900
House Neal, Richard E $6,500
Senate Rockefeller, Jay $6,500
Senate Reed, Jack $6,000


Based on data released by the FEC on February 09, 2009


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...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&"When all government...in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided...” Thomas Jefferson&&&&"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases." — Thomas Jefferson&&&&&&&&We're not old men.We don't bother about petty morals--Keef&&&&Actually, it only takes one drink to get me loaded. Trouble is, I can't remember if it's the thirteenth or fourteenth. &&-- George Burns&&&&&&I ain't no leftist!-Bob Dylan&&&&"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce
 
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #3747 - Mar 17th, 2009 at 11:00pm
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fuman wrote on Mar 17th, 2009 at 5:04pm:
nankerphelge wrote on Mar 17th, 2009 at 4:35pm:
"Isn't that criminal? I think it is for a News channel to willfully misrepresent."

Nah...

...




Dan Rather had a document in his hands, that turned out to be false. Shame on him for not checking his source.

If the Fox story is accurate, they completely fabricated their story. Do you see my point?



Anyone who thinks Karl Rove is above planting that phony memo to discredit Rather and distract attention from very real questions about Bush's National Guard "service" knows nothing about Rove's history of dirty tricks going back to his College Republican days.
Brainy
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #3748 - Mar 18th, 2009 at 4:12am
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Anyone who is in favor of government controlled health care should be forced to tour a VA hospital before making a final decision.
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #3749 - Mar 18th, 2009 at 4:33am
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Anyone that supported W. shouldn't be a Rolling Stones fan.  Logic has never been their strong point though so fuggit, right? Wow!
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