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Poll Poll
Question: What item is most likely found in the top drawer of Riffy's dresser?

naked pictures of Reagan    
  5 (20.0%)
Barry O voodoo doll    
  3 (12.0%)
Hoffa's body    
  2 (8.0%)
DVDs of "saved by the bell", season 3    
  1 (4.0%)
JC's boss's phone number    
  2 (8.0%)
bucket of chicken    
  5 (20.0%)
three sticks of "secret" deoderant, labels facing out    
  3 (12.0%)
"Eagles Greatest Hits" CD    
  4 (16.0%)




Total votes: 25
« Last Modified by: Starbuck on: Mar 3rd, 2010 at 5:01pm »

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Obama elected President (Read 620,225 times)
Brainbell Jangler
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #2825 - Feb 7th, 2009 at 4:28pm
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Riffhard wrote on Feb 7th, 2009 at 12:36am:
Well we are one step closer to a full blown socialist state thanks to left wing special interests groups, the Democrats that are paying them off, and three idiot Republicans that are apparently signing off on the largest transfer of private sector wealth and power to the federal government in, not just US history, but the entire history of recorded civilization! Thanks for pissing my daughters future away you fucking Marxist bastards in DC!! All of the sudden the benevolent hand of the farthest left government headed up by Obama, and his socialist buddies Pelosi and Reid are going to decide how to spend the money of generations of Americans who have zero legal say as to how this money will be spent! Thanks you socialist clowns!

The USA has entered into very dangerous territory when it punishes capitalism and free market economics. The Sal Alsinsky loving Obama is a pure ideologue who detests capitalism! He seeks power and more power! Have none of you people figured this out yet? He is gonna make the assinine Bush spending practices look like a goddmaned cake sale, and liberals are just whistling "Happy Days Are Here Again" about it!

Sounds like some people need to really brush up on history and remember what made this country the most successful democracy/republic ever conceived by man. The scare tactics of the most far left ideological president ever has pushed us to very edge of nothing less than a complete socialist remaking of our way of life. The Obamadrones have been duped into giving over all of our individual liberties to the power and judgment of a group of people that claim that they know better than "we the people" how to live as a society. Not one of these enlightened liberals has yet to even try and defend this generational theft of a spending bill! Not one! They can't defend it because they can't even explain it without giving away the big secret of nationalized socialism!


We're about to be screwed for a long long time and we are allowing purely un-American principles win the day as a way of ramming a far left agenda down all of our throats. This is going to get very very nasty. The American people are going to one day wake up and realize that "Hope" and "Change" really means "Servitude" and "Obedience" to  a huge central government that is the very antithesis of what the Founding Fathers had in mind. We are throwing our entire American history down the shitter because of the messianic appeal of an ideologue that rails against that very history!


Here learn something before it's too damned late! Learn it or forever say goodbye to it!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWsx1X8PV_A


Riffy


PS-Hey Goober, what do you think of the pope's problems? How about Romney slamming this pork pile shit of a bill? Time to rant about Germans and Mormons, no?


Brushing up on history sounds like a really good idea, riffy.  You may want to start with a history of the New Deal, which was far more of a leftward leap from conditions of the time than anything President Obama is proposing.  That got a lot of reactionaries yelling about socialism and an end to capitalism.  Then there was the hysterical bleating against the idea of Medicare by none other than reactionary demigod Ronald Raygun.  Yep, Medicare sure was the end of capitalism and freedom.  Medicare, for fuck's sake!  And trotting out Milton fucking Friedman, intellectual godfather of the fascist Pinochet bloodbath in Chile?  Give it a rest!

I will now--in my next entry--post some sensible comments on the recovery package from someone else with a Nobel Prize in Economics but without the blood of thousands of Chileans (and countless others around the world) on his hands:  Dr. Paul Krugman.
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #2826 - Feb 7th, 2009 at 4:31pm
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BJ....you're a great greased pole climber.

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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #2827 - Feb 7th, 2009 at 4:59pm
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"Edge of the Precipice" by Dr. Paul Krugman, winner of the Nobel Prize for Economics

A not-so-funny thing happened on the way to economic recovery.  Over the past two weeks, what should have been a deadly serious debate about how to save an economy in desperate straits turned, instead, into hackneyed political theater, with Republicans spouting all the old cliches about wasteful government spending and the wonders of tax cuts.

It's as if the dismal economic failure of the past eight years never happened--yet Democrats have, incredibly, been on the defensive.  Even if a major stimulus bill does pass the Senate, there's a real risk that important parts of the original plan, especially aid to state and local governments, will have been emasculated.

Somehow, Washington has lost any sense of what's at stake--of the reality that we may well be falling into an economic abyss, and that if we do, it will be very hard to get out again.

It's hard to exaggerate how much economic trouble we're in.  The crisis began with housing, but the implosion of the Bush-era housing bubble has set economic dominoes falling not just in the United States, but around the world.

Consumers, their wealth decimated and their optimism shattered by collapsing home prices and a sliding stock market, have cut back their spending and sharply increased their saving--a good thing in the long run, but a huge blow to the economy right now.  Developers of commercial real estate, watching rents fall and financing costs soar, are slashing their investment plans.  Businesses are canceling plans to expand capacity, because they aren't selling enough to use the capacity they have.  And exports, which were one of the U.S. economy's few areas of strength over the past couple of years, are now plunging as the financial crisis hits our trading partners.

Meanwhile, our main line of defense against recessions--the Federal Reserve's usual ability to support the economy by cutting interest rates--has already been overrun.  The Fed has cut the rates it controls basically to zero, yet the economy is still in free fall.

It's no wonder, then, that most economic forecasts warn that in the absence of government action we're headed for a deep, prolonged slump.  Some private analysts predict double-digit unemployment.  The Congressional Budget Office is slightly more sanguine, but its director, nonetheless, recently warned that "absent a change in fiscal policy . . . the shortfall in the nation's output relative to potential levels will be the largest--in duration and depth--since the Depression of the 1930s."

Worst of all is the possibility that the economy will, as it did in the '30s, end up stuck in a prolonged deflationary trap.

We're already closer to outright deflation than at any point since the Great Depression.  In particular, the private sector is experiencing widespread wage cuts for the first time since the 1930s, and there will be much more of that if the economy continues to weaken.

As the great American economist Irving Fisher pointed out almost 80 years ago, deflation, once started, tends to feed on itself.  As dollar incomes fall in the face of a depressed economy, the burden of debt becomes harder to bear, while the expectation of further price declines discourages investment spending.  These effects of deflation depress the economy further, which leads to more deflation, and so on.

And deflationary traps can go on for a long time.  Japan experienced a "lost decade" of deflation and stagnation in the 1990s--and the only thing that let Japan escape from its trap was a global boom that boosted the nation's exports.  Who will rescue America from a similar trap now that the whole world is slumping at the same time?

Would the Obama economic plan, if enacted, ensure than America won't have its own lost decade?  Not necessarily:  A number of economists, myself included, think the plan falls short and should be substantially bigger.  But the Obama plan would certainly improve our odds.  And that's why the efforts of Republicans to make the plan smaller and less effective--to turn it into little more than another round of Bush-style tax cuts--are so destructive.

So what should Obama do?  Count me among those who think that the president made a big mistake in his initial approach, that his attempts to transcend partisanship ended up empowering politicians who take their marching orders from Rush Limbaugh.  What matters now, however, is what he does next.

It's time for Obama to go on the offensive.  Above all, he must not shy away from pointing out that those who stand in the way of his plan, in the name of a discredited economic philosophy, are putting the nation's future at risk.  The American economy is on the edge of catastrophe, and much of the Republican Party is trying to push it over that edge.
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #2828 - Feb 7th, 2009 at 5:01pm
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Ten Thousand Motels wrote on Feb 7th, 2009 at 4:31pm:
BJ....you're a great greased pole climber.


Brick wall head-butter?  Sow's ear silk purse seamster?
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #2829 - Feb 7th, 2009 at 5:03pm
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Brainbell Jangler wrote on Feb 7th, 2009 at 5:01pm:
Ten Thousand Motels wrote on Feb 7th, 2009 at 4:31pm:
BJ....you're a great greased pole climber.


Brick wall head-butter?  Sow's ear silk purse seamster?


Grin Something like that.
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #2830 - Feb 7th, 2009 at 5:52pm
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February 6, 2009  
Endgame? What Endgame?
Afghanistan: A war without end  
by Justin Raimondo

So, you thought it was all going to be different, did you, that we were in for a change – a Big Change? Well, the bad news, as Newsweek reports, is that the more things change ….


"The Pentagon is prepared to announce the deployment of 17,000 additional soldiers and Marines to Afghanistan as early as this week even as President Barack Obama is searching for his own strategy for the war. According to military officials during last week's meeting with Defense Secretary Gates and the Joint Chiefs of Staff in the Pentagon's 'tank,' the president specifically asked, 'What is the end game?' in the U.S. military's strategy for Afghanistan. When asked what the answer was, one military official told NBC News, 'Frankly, we don't have one.' But they're working on it."


He's searching for strategy – at this late date? Isn't this the same Barack Hussein Obama who told us Bush was neglecting the Afghan front, and that we had to redirect our efforts away from Iraq in order to invest more troops and treasure in Afghanistan, doing whatever it is we're supposed to be doing there? Surely he had some kind of plan in mind.


And, by the way, what are we doing there? Frankly, nobody knows – least of all, apparently, President Obama. His generals are equally clueless. Maybe they ought to ask the outgoing President – Dick Cheney, I mean. After all, this war was launched by the Cheney-Bush administration, and the neocons who talked us into this clearly had something very specific in mind – now what was it?  


Oh yeah, now I remember: they were going to "transform" the entire region by first smashing Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan, and then crushing Saddam Hussein: this was supposed to spark a general uprising extending from North Africa to the wilds of Waziristan, and usher in a new era of capital-'D' Democracy.


Well, yes, the invasion did indeed provoke a regional uprising: the only problem is that it wasn't and isn't directed at local despots, but against us. We never did get bin Laden – who seems to have vanished into a convenient hole, from which he occassionally issues threats, taunts, and I-told-you-so's. The revolutionary wave that was supposed to upend the Middle Eastern status quo has instead turned into a rising tide of anti-Americanism.  


Die-hard neocons point to the recent Iraqi elections as somehow making the invasion and occupation worth it, and yet look at the victors – the Da'wa party, led by Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, which beat its nearest rival, the Islamic Council, even in southern Iraq, a former Council stronghold. The party was founded in 1957 by a group of Shi'ite clerics and scholars, and led by the Ayatollah Baqir al-Sadr, who sought to establish an Islamic state in Iraq. The Ayatollah was, in theory, a democrat, but was executed before he could translate his principles into a party program. Da'wa was sympathetic to the Khomeini revolution, when it came, and the party soon became a wholly-owned subsidiary of Tehran, where its leading cadre took up residence as guests of the Iranian government.  


In 1983, members of the Da'wa party conducted simultaneous suicide bombings targeting the French and American embassies in Kuwait – retribution for Western support of Saddam during the Iran-Iraq war. A number of industrial targets, including oil production facilities, were also targeted. Although Islamic Jihad took responsibity for the bombings, the real identity of the bombers soon became known when part of a thumb was found and the print matched that of Raad Murtin Ajeel, a young Da'wa militant. Seventeen others were apprehended, and tried. Of the four tried in absentia, one was Jamal Jaffar Mohammed, a sitting member of Parliament and a prominent Da'wa leader. Our own government has attacked him as not only a convicted terrorist, but also a conduit for Iranian influence and arms in Iraq.  


Oh, but things will be different in Afghanistan – we're going to limit our aims. We're just going to go in and eliminate the bad guys, without fooling ourselves into thinking we can effect a socio-political transformation. It'll be more like a special forces operation than an all-out invasion and occupation. That, at least, is what conservative Democrats like Claire McCaskill are saying. Yet the war plans of the Afghan hawks, who occupy key posts in the Obama administration, aren't nearly as modest.


The inspiration for the coming Afghan "surge" is the new counterinsurgency orthodoxy championed by the Hero of Iraq, General David Petraeus, under whose auspices the Army's updated counterinsurgency manual was produced. Go here for a in-depth look at what's in store for us, as presented by two writers associated with the Center for a New American Security, a "centrist" Democratic thinktank which, according to E. J. Dionne, is the epicenter of the foreign policy action in the new admnistration.  


This new doctrine, based on our alleged success in Iraq, involves a long-term commitment that its advocates acknowledge might seem like "neocolonialism dressed up in PowerPoint," but, heck, it works. The idea is not to go in and then get out, but to hold territory and build up the social and material infrastructure: roads, schools, clinics, coupled with decisive displays of force when necessary – occasional "surges" just to remind the natives who's in charge.  


One can easily see the woozy liberalism Obama is so good at translating into performance art rationalizing this kind of "smart" war: unlike the Darth Vader-ish Bushies, the Obama-ites will preside over a benevolent empire, albeit not one that is at all hesitant to employ force to assert the essential principle of US foreign policy in the post-cold war era: the primacy of American power on a global scale. In Afghanistan, we are about to see the "liberal" Democratic version of the Bush Doctrine put into practice, as we venture into the tribal areas of Pakistan: it's a "myth," you see, that these regions are "ungovernable," according to the CNAS crowd. As long as the right people are doing the governing.


We are hearing an all-too-familiar narrative being spun out by the Afghan hawks, one that recalls the neocon storyline that lied us into invading and occupying Iraq. The authors of the CNAS blueprint for the longterm occupation of Afghanistan intersperse their earnest descriptions of the "new" "smart" way to subjugate a people with matter-of-fact assertions attached to no proof whatsoever, such as their description of the tribal areas as "home to the international headquarters of al-Qaeda as well as much of the Taliban insurgency." Does al-Qaeda even have an "international headquarters"? Confronted with this sort of prose, one imagines the terrorist equivalent of the Davos conference.  


If all this talk of Pakistan's "links" to al-Qaeda evokes a feeling of déjà vu, then that's because we heard the same argument in the run-up to the invasion of Iraq. Bin Laden and Saddam were supposedly bosom buddies, and 9/11 was their joint project. Government officials, up to and including the President, so much as said this long after the alleged connection had been debunked. Today we are hearing the same connection being made between al-Qaeda and a province of Pakistan with the same bold assertiveness – and the same absence of supporting evidence.  


If we are really proposing to build a nation, a democratic one even, in Afghanistan, it is hard to see how not inviting the elected President of the country you are trying to build to Obama's presidential inauguration furthers that aim. Yet that is precisely how the White House snubbed Hamid Karzai, whose government our soldiers have been fighting and dying for. Karzai, you'll recall, was elevated to the Afghan presidency amid much ceremony and to the applause of the Western media, in an election heralded as a success by the War Party in its heyday. To add real sting to the snub: Karzai's likely opponents in the upcoming presidential election were invited, including an unsavory warlord of disgusting personal habits and a human rights record comparable to Al Capone's.  


The new regime is supposed to be all about "competence," and technocratic efficiency, but this seems to me to be the most likely way to break up a fragile democratic polity. By directly interfering in Afghanistan's internal politics, we replicate the errors of Vietnam, where we overthrew the Catholic Ngo Dinh Diem, and installed a succession of military juntas and phony "democratic" governments. It ended with the helicopters taking off from the roof of the abandoned US embassy.  


The Soviets could not subdue the Afghans, and they have the advantage of sharing a border – one that turned into a decisive disadvantage, as the Russian defeat reverberated across Central Asia, creating seismic geopolitical tremors that presaged the breakup of the USSR.  


The US, on the other hand, will find it impossible to maintain an open supply route to its Afghan expeditionary force without creating a very big footprint in the surrounding regions, especially the 'stans: Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, and Tajikistan. This will rightly be seen by the Russians as a provocation, the latest chapter in the ongoing Western effort to encircle and isolate Russia. That's another front on which the Obama administration is likely to move: the installation of an advanced anti-missile system in Poland, at Moscow's doorstep, is a decision taken by the Bush administration that the new regime shows no sign of reversing. At least, not yet. Tensions are already rising over the US air base in Kyrgyzstan, where the Americans are being asked to leave their air base – or maybe not.  


It's the same old game, only with different players. Instead of Iraq, it's going to be Afghanistan and Pakistan. But, one has to ask – why? What's the rationale, this time? The liberation of Afghan women? That'll get the feminists. The myth of bin Laden's presence? That'll convince the more credulous. Good old fashioned do-gooder-ism will get the Hollywood liberals, who will jump at the chance to get all patriotic. The Republicans will support it, while urging a more aggressive war policy – and the Keynesians will love it, because, after all, any kind of government spending is good, it doesn't matter if you build roads, pyramids, or empires. It's all good.  


So there you have it: the new interventionist consensus, the coalition of special interests and ideological cliques that will foist another futile war of "liberation" on us. These are the supporters of what is now Obama's war, a conflict that promises to be much broader – and more destabilizing – than anything dreamed of by the Bush administration.  


What's the endgame, Mr. President? You tell us.

~ Justin Raimondo

I told you the Americans are stupid. That goes with the territory.  Duh.
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #2831 - Feb 7th, 2009 at 6:37pm
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52% of them certainly are...
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #2832 - Feb 7th, 2009 at 7:59pm
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Quote:
52% of them certainly are...

By defining stupidity as political disagreement with himself, glencar is trapped into asserting such absurdities as that Nobel laureates in economics and distinguished historians are stupid (his alternative rationalization being that they are crazy).  It would be a lonely world for glencar without the company of his delusions and those who share them.
Brainy
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #2833 - Feb 7th, 2009 at 8:21pm
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WASHINGTON — The White House won't say it explicitly. Neither will the Drug Enforcement Administration. Yet there is a whiff in the air that U.S. policy is about to change when it comes to medical marijuana.

The message is clear, said UCLA professor Mark Kleiman, a former Justice Department official and an expert on crime and drug policy.

"It is no longer federal policy to beat up on hippies," said Kleiman.

Tell that to the DEA.

In California this past week, agents raided four dispensaries in Los Angeles and seized 500 pounds of pot.

"It's a little bit surprising, because I think current DEA management didn't get the message," said Kleiman. "The message is, this is no longer drug warrior time. We are not on a cultural crusade against pot-smoking."

California law permits the sale of marijuana for medical purposes, though it is still against federal law.

Thirteen states have laws permitting medicinal use of marijuana. California is unique among them for the presence of dispensaries, businesses that sell marijuana and even advertise their services. Legal under California law, such dispensaries are still illegal under federal law.

Story continues below 

"Anyone possessing, distributing or cultivating marijuana for any reason is in violation of federal law," Sarah Pullen, a DEA spokeswoman in Los Angeles, said Thursday.

That may be the law, but it contradicts the medical marijuana position of the new president.

"The president believes that federal resources should not be used to circumvent state laws, and as he continues to appoint senior leadership to fill out the ranks of the federal government, he expects them to review their policies with that in mind," said White House spokesman Nick Shapiro, repeating past statements.

So on Friday, DEA officials in Washington declined to comment at all on the subject.

As a presidential candidate, Obama repeatedly promised a change in federal drug policy in situations where state laws allow use of medical marijuana.

"I think the basic concept of using medical marijuana for the same purposes and with the same controls as other drugs prescribed by doctors, I think that's entirely appropriate," Obama told the Mail Tribune of Medford, Ore., in March.

A year earlier at a campaign stop in New Hampshire, Obama said: "I would not have the Justice Department prosecuting and raiding medical marijuana users."

At age 47, Obama is part of a generation that had plenty of exposure to pot.

In his memoir, "Dreams from My Father," he described time spent as a youth struggling with questions about his race and identity, and turning to drugs _ including marijuana and cocaine _ to "push questions of who I was out of my mind."

The new president is unlikely to make any official change in policy before he has a new DEA chief and drug czar in place.

Yet experts believe it is already clear the Obama administration will change the strategy, if not the law, on medical marijuana.

Philip Heymann, a former deputy attorney general in the Clinton administration who is now a Harvard professor, said it's time for the agency to put more effort into fighting drugs more dangerous than marijuana.

"I do expect him to appoint an administrator who takes marijuana less seriously than is traditional for the DEA, as I think most Americans do," said Heymann.

Heymann said he expects the Obama administration will eventually instruct the DEA to emphatically scale back raids on dispensaries, and conduct such raids only in instances where investigators believe a business is abusing the dispensary system as a cover for other criminal behavior.

So last week's raids in California may be the last of their kind.

"The DEA's not likely to want to confront a new president," said Heymann. "It may simply be that they're behaving as they have traditionally, and they haven't anticipated the change Obama and his spokesman are signaling."

____

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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #2834 - Feb 7th, 2009 at 8:26pm
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President Barack Obama talks directly to the American people about the immediate need for action on the economy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HvC0IqNoBg&eurl=http://my.barackobama.com/page/i...
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #2835 - Feb 7th, 2009 at 8:27pm
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Good article, except that the description of Phil Heymann as "a former deputy attorney general in the Clinton administration who is now a Harvard professor" is, if technically accurate, misleading.  He would be better described as a Harvard law professor who took time off to serve as a deputy attorney general in the Clinton administration.
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #2836 - Feb 7th, 2009 at 9:06pm
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Riffy, I've been calling George Walker Bush III "goober" for years now.  I beginning to get the feeling you don't think much of my intelligence level, or the things that flow from that - logic, insight, comprehension, capability for abstract thought, etc.  Is that true, Riffy?  You think god shorted me on all that geeky stuff?  You think I'm as dumb as George Walker Bush III?  Like for reals? 

Well, in light of these developments, frankly I'm not sure that you and I can be political friends anymore.  A great schism has come between us.  A chasmic intellectual vortex of ungirdable width.  And now, I alone, shall lead the board's conservatives to the promised land, while you Bush Geeks languish hopelessly in the sweltering squalor of your fatuous big government, terrorist coddling, muffy muff philosophies.
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #2837 - Feb 7th, 2009 at 11:36pm
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So, which of the Great Right Hopes is going to address the issues discussed in Professor Krugman's article, particularly the danger of a deflationary spiral?  Hmmmmm?
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #2838 - Feb 8th, 2009 at 11:57am
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Brainbell Jangler wrote on Feb 7th, 2009 at 11:36pm:
So, which of the Great Right Hopes is going to address the issues discussed in Professor Krugman's article, particularly the danger of a deflationary spiral?  Hmmmmm?


LOL! Let me start out by saying that I respect you BJ. You are a true believer. You actually believe in socialism. You are the very definition of a liberal elite, no offense. You believe that only Ivy League intellectuals have the wherewithal and know how to get the nation out of this economic downturn. I don't believe that at all. Quite the opposite in fact. I believe in a common sense approach to this mess. I believe in economic freedom and capitalism. It is these principles that the nation was founded on. Stupidly I believed that the TARP spending was nessesary. I believed it because all the members of congress said it must be done. Since then we have seen that the money allocated for this great government solution has dissappeared into the ether. This is the way government spending has always gone. The government is not efficient at anything. It never has been! When someone tells me that government is the answer I have to stifle a laugh. This is the same government that has bankrupted every great worthwhile program that it came up with in the first place! The list is endless. Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, Public Education, and of course, Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac, and countless other well intentioned programs. The government created all of this mess that we find ourselves in right now! Greedy capitalists had next to nothing to do with this shitstorm. No, the fingerprints of big government are all over this. It was the government that forced banks into making loans that in no way would have been made otherwise. This crap started with Jimmy Carter and the Urban Renewal Act that he signed into law in 1977. Then Bill Clinton doubled down on this government boondoggle. Then the bill came due when Fannie and Freddia went belly up and Bush signed off on the TARP funding.

Now we are expected to believe that an additional TRILLION dollars will fix it! Please?! If this is the case then perhaps you can explain the list of appropriations in the bill that I listed earlier? Can you defend that pork pile? Where is the help for the banking crisis? Where is the help for the toxic loans that the government forced banks to make? I can easliy point out the idiocy of money for STDs, abortions, and condoms. But can you defend them? I think not. This bill is nothing more than a liberal Democrat wish list. It was Rahm Emmanual himself that said, and I quote, "Never let a crisis go to waste!" I see what this is. Yet you, being a true believer, think that a trillion here, and a trillion there is fine so long as an intellectual like Paul Krugman supports it. Gee, I wonder why a hard left liberal like Krugman would support it?

I'm sorry BJ, but I'll put my faith in the economic genius of the late Milton Friedman. He was 100 times the economic genius that Krugman is. When China embraced capitalism because they were going broke under socialist spending who did they turn to? It wasn't Krugman! It was Friedman! Same goes for Russia! They studied the Freidman philosophy. Krugman wasn't even on their list! You point that Krugman won a Noble prize. Gee, big whoop! So did Yasaser Arraffat! So a decidedly liberal group of European elites gives Krugman an award and we're supposed to be impressed? But hey, since you put so much weight in a Noble prize I guess I should mention that Friedman won one too. Well before Krugman did in fact.

As far as FDR is concerned, I think the revisionist history of his brilliant New Deal is more than a little disturbing. It has led to the misguided belief that government spending is the magic bullet to fix all of our economic ills. The fact is that the New Deal actually extended the depression. It certainly didn't end it! Don't take my word for it though. Here's what FDR's own Treasury Secretary Henry Morgenthau had to say about it back in the day,“We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work,” he declared in 1939. “We have never made good on our promises...I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started...And an enormous debt to boot!” Just take a look at this chart. You'll notice that the depression ended with the onset of WWII. It had nothing to do with the New Deal!

...

The fallacy of government spending to get ourselves out of debt has been proven to be nothing more than throwing good money after bad. Plus given the fact that this particular bill dosen't even address the root cause of the problem, but rather just pays off liberal special interest groups like ACORN, unions, and trial lawyers you'll forgive me if I call it a crap sandwich. The American people know it too. The majority of American people now reject this spending package outright! Even the Congressional Budget Office has sated unequivically that this bill will not help, but rather hurt long term prospects of economic recovery! Now Democrats loved to point to the numbers from the CBO when Bush was in office. Not surprisingly they readily ignore them when it comes to spending on their own special interest groups!


Remember in the words of Rahmbo-Never let a crisis go to waste!

Hope all is well with you BJ. The girls are well I take it? My youngest just celebrated her 11th last week! It goes quick, huh?!




Riffy

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...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&"When all government...in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided...” Thomas Jefferson&&&&"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases." — Thomas Jefferson&&&&&&&&We're not old men.We don't bother about petty morals--Keef&&&&Actually, it only takes one drink to get me loaded. Trouble is, I can't remember if it's the thirteenth or fourteenth. &&-- George Burns&&&&&&I ain't no leftist!-Bob Dylan&&&&"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce
 
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #2839 - Feb 8th, 2009 at 1:01pm
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Oh, and by the way. You erronously try and link Friedman to the violence of Pinochet's governemnt. Friedman never supported Pinochet politically. That is a ridiculous link that only the intellectually dishonest try and assert! Here's a little "cut an paste" job for you. Bear in mind that Friedman met Pinochet once, and only for 45 minutes at that!


Riffy

-------------------------------------------------------


Milton Friedman and Chilean economic policy

Milton Friedman advocated releasing price controls and replacing undeveloped countries' command-based economies with laissez-faire free market capitalism, even if it meant using quick reforms that Jeffrey Sachs would refer to as "shock therapy." In the case of Chile, these reforms were instituted in the wake of a violent coup, and Friedman's name has been strongly linked to the coup in Chile by critics such as exiled Chilean Foreign Affairs Minister Orlando Letelier.

Friedman did not personally support Pinochet, though he had given some lectures advocating free market economic policies in La Universidad Católica de Chile and met with Pinochet for 45 minutes, where the general "indicated very little indeed about his own or the government's feeling" and the president asked Friedman to write him a letter laying out what he thought Chile’s economic policies should be; Friedman did that. The New York Times columnist Anthony Lewis declared in 1975 that "the Chilean junta’s economic policy is based on the ideas of Milton Friedman…and his Chicago School".  However, Milton Friedman did not even meet with Pinochet until 1975, two years after the coup, and free-market policies were not begun until 1975, again, two years after the coup.

Commenting on his statement about the "Miracle", Friedman says that "the emphasis of that talk was that free markets would undermine political centralization and political control."  Friedman claimed that "The real miracle in Chile was not that those economic reforms worked so well, because that's what Adam Smith said they would do. Chile is by all odds the best economic success story in Latin America today. The real miracle is that a military junta was willing to let them do it." He says the "Chilean economy did very well, but more important, in the end the central government, the military junta, was replaced by a democratic society. So the really important thing about the Chilean business is that free markets did work their way in bringing about a free society." The term Miracle of Chile is also commonly used to refer to the claimed favorable economic results of economic liberalization in that economy. Detractors claim that the Chilean economy went into serious decline between 1973 and 1983. Supporters point out that this economic downturn was not confined to Chile but was a Latin American phenomenon; Chile being the first nation in the region to recover.

Some people have criticized Friedman for assisting the Pinochet government with economic reforms, pointing to the brutal tactics used by that regime. Friedman has defended himself against such criticisms, stating that he had given nearly similar speeches and promoted the same policies in China and Yugoslavia, and pointing out that his visit was unrelated to the political side of the regime and that during his visit to Chile he even stated that following his economic liberalization advice would help bring political freedom and the downfall of the regime.


Long term results

The experience of Chile in the 1970s and 1980s, and especially the export of the Chilean pension model by former Labor Minister Jose Piñera, has influenced the policies of the Communist Party of China and has been invoked as a model by economic reformers in other countries, such as Boris Yeltsin in Russia and almost all Eastern European post-Communist societies.


Current Chilean economy

According to the 2008 Index of Economic Freedom, Chile is the world's 8th "most free" economy today. Chile is ranked 3rd out of 29 countries in the Americas and has been a "regional leader" for over a decade. Chile had GDP growth of 6.1% in 2004, and has averaged a 4.0% annual increase in GDP over the last five years for which data is available


...

Blue represents Chile's GDP. Orange represents the rest of South America.
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« Last Edit: Feb 8th, 2009 at 1:05pm by Riffhard »  

...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&...&&&&"When all government...in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided...” Thomas Jefferson&&&&"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases." — Thomas Jefferson&&&&&&&&We're not old men.We don't bother about petty morals--Keef&&&&Actually, it only takes one drink to get me loaded. Trouble is, I can't remember if it's the thirteenth or fourteenth. &&-- George Burns&&&&&&I ain't no leftist!-Bob Dylan&&&&"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce
 
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #2840 - Feb 8th, 2009 at 1:46pm
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Brainbell Jangler wrote on Feb 7th, 2009 at 7:59pm:
Quote:
52% of them certainly are...

By defining stupidity as political disagreement with himself, glencar is trapped into asserting such absurdities as that Nobel laureates in economics and distinguished historians are stupid (his alternative rationalization being that they are crazy).  It would be a lonely world for glencar without the company of his delusions and those who share them.
Brainy

Or glencar could just be making a joke. Relax there, Nelly!
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glencar
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #2841 - Feb 8th, 2009 at 1:47pm
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Oh & maybe you'll see fit to defend your Prez. Seems like he's been screwing up A LOT lately.
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glencar
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #2842 - Feb 8th, 2009 at 1:48pm
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Some Guy wrote on Feb 7th, 2009 at 8:21pm:
WASHINGTON — The White House won't say it explicitly. Neither will the Drug Enforcement Administration. Yet there is a whiff in the air that U.S. policy is about to change when it comes to medical marijuana.

The message is clear, said UCLA professor Mark Kleiman, a former Justice Department official and an expert on crime and drug policy.

"It is no longer federal policy to beat up on hippies," said Kleiman.




Is it hippies who are using medical marijuana? That line there gives the lie to all that BS.
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Brainbell Jangler
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #2843 - Feb 8th, 2009 at 2:12pm
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Quote:
Brainbell Jangler wrote on Feb 7th, 2009 at 7:59pm:
Quote:
52% of them certainly are...

By defining stupidity as political disagreement with himself, glencar is trapped into asserting such absurdities as that Nobel laureates in economics and distinguished historians are stupid (his alternative rationalization being that they are crazy).  It would be a lonely world for glencar without the company of his delusions and those who share them.
Brainy

Or glencar could just be making a joke. Relax there, Nelly!

Another one of your "jokes," eh?  Like the Springsteen crack?  Keep your day job.  BTW, it's "Brainy," not "Nelly."  Nellcote is another poster with whom I'm sure you're familiar.
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glencar
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #2844 - Feb 8th, 2009 at 5:03pm
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Yeah, he's the one that makes sense except when it comes to sports teams...
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glencar
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #2845 - Feb 8th, 2009 at 5:11pm
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Back on topic, the decline continues...


So far our enemies are treating the Obama administration's craven attempts to sweet talk them with the contempt these efforts deserve. As  John has recounted, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad responded to Obama's misguided criticisms of America's policies toward Muslim countries, broadcast throughout the Arab world in his interview with the al Arabiya television network, by stating that he would be willing to consider an improvement in relations with the U.S. if Obama will apologize for America's many offenses against Iran.

Our adversaries often test the mettle of new American presidents early on. Here, given the signals Obama sent out during the presidential campaign and in the first weeks of his administration, it's natural for Ahmadinejad to wonder just how far President Obama will go to humiliate the U.S.

Nor is Ahmadinehad an outlier. Abe Greenwald observes that Russia has reacted to Vice President Biden's overtures with similar disdain. "Today," reports Greenwald, "Russia's Deputy Prime Minister Sergei Ivanov praised Vice President Joe Biden's recent kind words for Russia before making Biden seem foolish for ever uttering them." Greenwald is referring to this AP account of the Deputy Prime Minister's reaction to Talkin' Joe's overtures:

    "The U.S. administration sent a very strong signal, and the signal was heard-a signal that says they're ready to resume the Russian and U.S. dialogue frankly and openly," Ivanov told a news conference on the sidelines of the Munich Security Conference.

    But he said Russia did not feel it necessary to immediately reciprocate.

    "It is not an Oriental bazaar," he said. "And we do not trade the way people do in the bazaars."

Greenwald's dry conclusion is: "I guess Ivanov didn't get the memo about 'smart power.'" My conclusion is that Ivanov got the memo and understood the real meaning of this pseudo-concept.
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glencar
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #2846 - Feb 9th, 2009 at 7:45am
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From powerline.com;;;


In today's Rasmussen survey, Barack Obama's approval rating is down to 59%. His "approval index," the difference between those who strongly approve and those who strongly disapprove, has declined to +11. There's little doubt that Obama's eroding support over the past week is linked to his strident backing of the Democrats' pork extravaganza, which many people (including the Congressional Budget Office) fear will make the economy worse, not better.

The "stimulus" debate was a golden opportunity for Obama to follow Bill Clinton's triangulation strategy, staking out a middle position between Congressional liberals and conservatives. If he had brokered a stimulus bill that was stripped of Pelosi-Reid pork and included a healthy dose of tax cuts, he could have cemented and enhanced his popularity as well as promoting good (or at least better) public policy. Obama's preference for jamming a hard-left bill down the throats of the American people bodes poorly, I'm afraid, for the future of his administration.
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glencar
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #2847 - Feb 9th, 2009 at 7:54am
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Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University School of Law, St. Paul, Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning the Presidential election:



Number of States won by: Democrats: 19 -- Republicans: 29


Square miles of land won by: Democrats: 580,000 -- Republicans: 2,427,000


Population of counties won by: Democrats: 127 million -- Republicans: 143 million


Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by: Democrats: 13.2 -- Republicans: 2.1



Professor Olson adds: "In aggregate, the map of the territory Republicans won was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of the country. Democrat territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in government-owned tenements and living off various forms of government welfare..."

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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #2848 - Feb 9th, 2009 at 7:56am
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glencar= fire.
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glencar
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Re:  Obama elected President
Reply #2849 - Feb 9th, 2009 at 8:05am
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short lived though. Off to sleep.
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