It's natural to compare Mary J Blige's and Florence Welch's vocal spots on "Gimme Shelter" from last week's gigs (and with Lisa's from the last 20-some years).

I don't know Mary J's work very well, but she's obviously a great, commanding singer who always puts her heart into everything (that I've heard). And while not a great dancer, she's got quite a stage presence and looks terrific. But her take on "Gimme Shelter" left me a bit underwhelmed; I did expect a bit more. It seemed she didn't know the song very well (is that possible?), and tended to rely on the current gimmick of some very powerful female singers which is to over-sing and employ lots of vocal gymnastics to approximate "feeling". Too, visually she seemed a bit off with Jagger regarding "chemistry": maybe a bit intimidated (unlikey), maybe a tad arrogant (also seems unlikely, though I don't know much about her); maybe just shy; whatever, they didn't seem to click very well. A very fine performance to be sure, but...

Florence Welch - I do know her stuff with the Machine, and a few songs are really big deals. But she's still quite young and has a ways to go before really becoming consistent and finding her own "voice" (not litterally, but in the overall artistic sense). And I really didn't think she'd be up to the task on "Gimme Shelter". She lacks the R&B background of Mary J (and Lisa, and Merry Clayton as well). She is young and hasn't been at the game very long, so the possibilty of being intimidated by the event, being out of her depth, or just out-classed by the Stones seemed likely.

Boy, was I wrong. From the moment she walked on and got right in Mick's face there was a tension, and the song is about nothing if not tension, right down to the very chords and licks Keith and Woody play. And she kept it right up - advance, retreat, advance, retreat. Watching Jagger the way a fighter watches his opponent.
And when she got to Merry Clayton's original part - goddamn. It was the closest in tone, emotion, in SPIRIT, to the original that I've heard anyone pull off (including Alicia Keys). That song (like so many Stones' songs) isn't a "good times" party song, no matter how the band's presented it for the last few tours. The song's about - literally - life and death. And if it takes a somewhat artless bellowing or keening to express that - well that's what the song requires (and the hair-raising effect that Clayton originally brought to it).
It helped that the band were a little better that night, but that doesn't fully explain how she got over. Is she a great dancer? Not in the frequently cartoonish modern "pop" sense; she knows how to move her body, how to feel music, with subtlety, elegence and grace. And real animal sexuality. And you could tell Mick was just eating it up (albeit a littled startled, perhaps: my brother noted that L'Wren Scott might wanna have a word or two with Sir Mick about this performance!).

So there. Sorry to be so long winded, but Flo, unexpectadly, really blew me away.

Oh, I should have added: who do ya'all think/hope will be the guests in Brooklyn and Newark?

I guess there's talk that Springsteen and GaGa will guest for one or all three shows.
Springsteen (!!!); wonder what he'll do. Anything the man's on is going to be a big deal, probably great, maybe show-stealing.

GaGa - I can see why Mick would want her, but she's not a great singer. Standard loud/pseudo-gymnastic/faux R&B vocals, but fun and nutty and wild (I like her vibe, just not her music very much).

So who else would be good on "Gimme Shelter"? Alicia Keys? Karen O (Yeah Yeah Yeahs)? Could Chrissie Hynde hit those notes these days?
I's say Sharon Jones from the Dap Kings could nail it.

Who else?

Welcome back Mr. Yeats, Stones action always bring some good regulars back!

I'm gonna listen Forence once more, I have been very very busy so I just took a brief look at the video

Thanks, Voo. And thanks for helping me get re-registered.

Yep, an interesting time to be a Stones freak. Will the tour continue? Will they? Will they record more? What/ when/how about more archival stuff? etc.

Glad to be back.

I'm disapponted because this isn't a "catfight" thread. :scary :wow

P.S.: I do not like violence. I do like some drugs (tobacco, etc); but that's a subject for other thread

I dont usually enjoy " guest " slots but Florences performance last Thursday was staggeringly good .  I was at the show.. she was incredible.  I must have watched the clip 20 times since on You-tube ( Along with Mick T  and so on).    Just incredible.   So powerful.    I fear the North American shows may include a couple of duds.

I hope not.

MrPleasant wrote on Dec 4^th, 2012 at 1:49am:

I'm disapponted because this isn't a "catfight" thread.

OK, here ya go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ih6W19KTlZo

Mary J Blige will be performing at the Brooklyn show.

I enjoyed her performance at the 02 gig but I thought (based on video footage admittedly, whereas I was actually at the first night's gig) that Florence was even better.  I was a bit underwhelmed when she was announced as the guest, but she was fantastic.

I have to agree with the comments about Florence. She really went for it and seemed soooooooo happy to be there, even climbing on the riser and giving Charlie a hug. I had no idea who she was, but I think I'll search out some "machine" stuff asap  - blown away .


sc uk

I got into it on Shidoobee with a guy who INSISTS Florence Welch was "ridiculous" and that it was clear from the video clips that:
a) Jagger went over to Lisa to APOLOGIZE for Flo's appearance.
b) Keith was making fun of/laughing AT her throughout the entire performance.

Idiot!!!  :shutthefuckup :shutthefuckup

LadyJane wrote on Dec 4^th, 2012 at 9:00am:

I got into it on Shidoobee with a guy who INSISTS Florence Welch was "ridiculous" and that it was clear from the video clips that: a) Jagger went over to Lisa to APOLOGIZE for Flo's appearance. b) Keith was making fun of/laughing AT her throughout the entire performance. Idiot!!!  :shutthefuckup :shutthefuckup

Jeez. Is that why, after Flo hugged and kisssed Keith, Woody, Mick twice, and was heading to the drum riser to kiss Charlie - Keith intercepted her to kiss her hand?
(she should have given Daryl some too).

Some people are afraid of unbridled passion and spontaneity, and, apparently, pretty girls getting down with their beloved pop stars (Springsteen also gets a lot of weird shit from some of his "fans" - mostly male - about the female musicians he works with, most notably his wife Patti. Who, come to think of it, looks a bit like Florence).

Mr. Yeats wrote on Dec 4^th, 2012 at 10:52am:

LadyJane wrote on Dec 4th, 2012 at 9:00am: I got into it on Shidoobee with a guy who INSISTS Florence Welch was "ridiculous" and that it was clear from the video clips that: a) Jagger went over to Lisa to APOLOGIZE for Flo's appearance. b) Keith was making fun of/laughing AT her throughout the entire performance. Idiot!!!  :shutthefuckup :shutthefuckup Jeez. Is that why, after Flo hugged and kisssed Keith, Woody, Mick twice, and was heading to the drum riser to kiss Charlie - Keith intercepted her to kiss her hand? (she should have given Daryl some too). Some people are afraid of unbridled passion and spontaneity, and, apparently, pretty girls getting down with their beloved pop stars (Springsteen also gets a lot of weird shit from some of his "fans" - mostly male - about the female musicians he works with, most notably his wife Patti. Who, come to think of it, looks a bit like Florence).

Didn't bother me so much that he didn't care for her performance. That's his right.

What angered me was his absolute certainty that HE KNEW what Mick and Keith thought and that if I disagreed, I therefore, knew NOTHING about the Band.
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!

LadyJane wrote on Dec 4^th, 2012 at 10:57am:

Mr. Yeats wrote on Dec 4th, 2012 at 10:52am: LadyJane wrote on Dec 4th, 2012 at 9:00am: I got into it on Shidoobee with a guy who INSISTS Florence Welch was "ridiculous" and that it was clear from the video clips that: a) Jagger went over to Lisa to APOLOGIZE for Flo's appearance. b) Keith was making fun of/laughing AT her throughout the entire performance. Idiot!!!  :shutthefuckup :shutthefuckup Jeez. Is that why, after Flo hugged and kisssed Keith, Woody, Mick twice, and was heading to the drum riser to kiss Charlie - Keith intercepted her to kiss her hand? (she should have given Daryl some too). Some people are afraid of unbridled passion and spontaneity, and, apparently, pretty girls getting down with their beloved pop stars (Springsteen also gets a lot of weird shit from some of his "fans" - mostly male - about the female musicians he works with, most notably his wife Patti. Who, come to think of it, looks a bit like Florence). Didn't bother me so much that he didn't care for her performance. That's his right. What angered me was his absolute certainty that HE KNEW what Mick and Keith thought and that if I disagreed, I therefore, knew NOTHING about the Band. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, fair point, LJ.

But where's the evidence for his views? On the three or four YouTube videos of the song, clearly the band are digging the performance greatly. Not once can you see a smirk or look of disdain on any of their faces. And what, in his view, made Welch "ridiculous" (as opposed to, say, just not being very good or whatever).

I was looking forward more to Florence Welch because I absolutely can't stand Mary J. Blige's singing or stage presence, but I was very surprised that I liked Mary J. Blige's more. Until I hear it with proper sound though, it's difficult to say. I just thought her voice sounded more powerful and I found Florence Welch's moves a little awkward.

The Wick wrote on Dec 4^th, 2012 at 11:05am:

I was looking forward more to Florence Welch because I absolutely can't stand Mary J. Blige's singing or stage presence, but I was very surprised that I liked Mary J. Blige's more. Until I hear it with proper sound though, it's difficult to say. I just thought her voice sounded more powerful and I found Florence Welch's moves a little awkward.

Regarding Florence's "awkwardness" - yeah, I can see that. But I think she was right in step with Jagger, taking cues from him, playing off him, etc. And ya gotta admit - brilliant as he is, Mick does have some pretty peculiar moves himself!
High stepping is never outta style!

"But where's the evidence for his views? On the three or four YouTube videos of the song, clearly the band are digging the performance greatly. Not once can you see a smirk or look of disdain on any of their faces. And what, in his view, made Welch "ridiculous" (as opposed to, say, just not being very good or whatever)."

Seemingly he just "knows". Here read for yourself. The regular print is me and that in italics is him:

___________________________________________________________________
Do you honestly think Mick Jagger would apologize to a "hired hand" during a performance? LOL

Yes , I still think that even Mick Jagger is capable of human reactions
and I still think that he is able to think of  Lisa as a friend and not a hired hand

Who do you think invited her to perform?? My money is on Jagger.

mine too ,but its only marketing

Towards the end of the song Keith gives Flo a nice nod and big smile.

He did that for Aguileira too , if you think that Keith enjoyed this "performance"
you know nothing about Keith - period

Florence Welch many not be YOUR cup of tea but the Band clearly enjoyed her

yes ,if you interprete joking and laughing as enjoying - they did

as did most of the fans I know who were
there and/or have viewed the clips.
Of course this is all in my humble f'ing opinion.


btw , I cant understand that a Stones purist thinks that this ridiculous appearance has something remarkable
but even if you enjoyed it (I have no problem with it) ,why you cant stand another opinion ?

LadyJane wrote on Dec 4^th, 2012 at 11:19am:

"But where's the evidence for his views? On the three or four YouTube videos of the song, clearly the band are digging the performance greatly. Not once can you see a smirk or look of disdain on any of their faces. And what, in his view, made Welch "ridiculous" (as opposed to, say, just not being very good or whatever)." Seemingly he just "knows". Here read for yourself. The regular print is me and that in italics is him: ___________________________________________________________________ Do you honestly think Mick Jagger would apologize to a "hired hand" during a performance? LOL Yes , I still think that even Mick Jagger is capable of human reactions and I still think that he is able to think of  Lisa as a friend and not a hired hand Who do you think invited her to perform?? My money is on Jagger. mine too ,but its only marketing Towards the end of the song Keith gives Flo a nice nod and big smile. He did that for Aguileira too , if you think that Keith enjoyed this "performance" you know nothing about Keith - period Florence Welch many not be YOUR cup of tea but the Band clearly enjoyed her yes ,if you interprete joking and laughing as enjoying - they did as did most of the fans I know who were there and/or have viewed the clips. Of course this is all in my humble f'ing opinion. btw , I cant understand that a Stones purist thinks that this ridiculous appearance has something remarkable but even if you enjoyed it (I have no problem with it) ,why you cant stand another opinion ?

Sorry, LJ. That must have been quite the frustrating exchange for you.
Does he think Florence (and all guests) don't rehearse their song with the band at least once, or at least meet the band and go through chord changes with Chuck and probably meet Lisa and Bernard (especially for a singing guest)?

Marketing? Sure. They're marketing the Rolling Stones. They give younger, newer, or just less well known guests a shot because they (at least Mick, but probably the others have a say) LIKE that act and want to give them a boost (they've been helping their fellow musicians this way since '69). They could have got anyone from Adele to a roadies' niece if they wanted to. They chose Florence.

Maybe Keith LIKES Christina Aguilera. Maybe likes her music, or at least her performance with the Stones. Does this guy think Keith just listens to Chuck Berry and Jimmy Reed and nothing else?
Does he know Richards? We've all read the same shit - the same books, interviews, articles, antecdotes. "You don't know Keith". You shoulda told him "yeah I do, and he told me he loves Florence and the Machine and Christina Aguilera and Lady Gaga and Justin Timberlake and Justin Beiber too".

And what's a "Stones purist"? Is that like those people who in '66 said 'how dare the Stones - a gritty R&B band - do a song like "Lady Jane" (or "Dandelion" or "She's a Rainbow" or whatever? (no offense to you, LJ).

And lastly: You all were on a Rolling Stones discussion board, discussing the Rolling Stones. I didn't see anywhere where you refused to indulge is "opinion" (misinformed though it was). He, on the other hand, refused to indulge your views.

LOL.

Thanks Mr Yeats.

I was quite frustrated with my exchange with this character.

As for Stones purist, that's a term coined by our old friend and former Rocks Off poster jb aka Mr Lawyer. It's akin to a Stones loyalist, meaning no other Band comes close to them. I use the term to describe myself in my Shidoobee sig line; kind of tongue and cheek.

Here's another of Welch and The Stains...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-V7VkQKW6eM&feature=plcp

"Oh little Flo,
How I love you so,
Especially in your nightie.
When the moonlight flits,
Across your tits,
Oh jesus christ almighty".


Having said that - 'Flo' was maybe basing her performance a tdsy too much on Shezza 'Nipples' Crow's turn with the Stones (on HTW)
Personally I think Blige rode the Stones groove train perfectly and appreciate why & that she has been invited for saucy seconds.

LadyJane wrote on Dec 4^th, 2012 at 11:19am:

"But where's the evidence for his views? On the three or four YouTube videos of the song, clearly the band are digging the performance greatly. Not once can you see a smirk or look of disdain on any of their faces. And what, in his view, made Welch "ridiculous" (as opposed to, say, just not being very good or whatever)." Seemingly he just "knows". Here read for yourself. The regular print is me and that in italics is him: ___________________________________________________________________ Do you honestly think Mick Jagger would apologize to a "hired hand" during a performance? LOL Yes , I still think that even Mick Jagger is capable of human reactions and I still think that he is able to think of  Lisa as a friend and not a hired hand Who do you think invited her to perform?? My money is on Jagger. mine too ,but its only marketing Towards the end of the song Keith gives Flo a nice nod and big smile. He did that for Aguileira too , if you think that Keith enjoyed this "performance" you know nothing about Keith - period Florence Welch many not be YOUR cup of tea but the Band clearly enjoyed her yes ,if you interprete joking and laughing as enjoying - they did as did most of the fans I know who were there and/or have viewed the clips. Of course this is all in my humble f'ing opinion. btw , I cant understand that a Stones purist thinks that this ridiculous appearance has something remarkable but even if you enjoyed it (I have no problem with it) ,why you cant stand another opinion ?

fuck 'em.

I'm surprised this isn't a poll.

Miss Flo...sounds just fine...dirty and gritty and not as soulful as MJB...and that is fine by me...

Perhaps she is thrown off by the fact that she can't see a harp player ( other than Mick-  ;D )
I do think she is not mic'd well...
of is used to using those ear things instead of a mic...she takes it away from her face too early so many times...

The choreography is poor...but at times it looks intentionally poor...and at times it looks
like a West Side Story Outake...

SOUND: 7.5
StTYLE: 8.0


ps: to see those beautiful legs covered up with flairs is a nice change...and they still look great!!!

Edith?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW-mVsInr6Y

hey - yo, yo yo
MrPleasant wrote on Dec 4^th, 2012 at 10:46pm:

Edith? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW-mVsInr6Y

No. It's me - Frank. Frank Rizzo. Blow the shit outta ya ears, jerky.
You think ya funny or sumthin'? Well lemme tell you'bout funny there, sizzle chest.

Hey, yo, yo, YOOU,you froggie motherfucker.

So dis Irish paddy mick; and dis black jungle-bunny; and dis hymie kike walks inna bar. And dey looks around. And dey walks up to da ba'.

And da ba'tender looks at 'em, an'says:

"What? What is dis? Some kinda joke?"

Now get da fuck outta here, Mr. UnPleasent, 'fore I put a boot up ya fuckin' ass, ya rat bastid.

Im a Stones purist... and i thought she friggin rocked.  As will Gary Clark Jr.

Mr. Yeats wrote on Dec 5^th, 2012 at 2:26am:

hey - yo, yo yo MrPleasant wrote on Dec 4th, 2012 at 10:46pm: Edith? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW-mVsInr6Y No. It's me - Frank. Frank Rizzo. Blow the shit outta ya ears, jerky. You think ya funny or sumthin'? Well lemme tell you'bout funny there, sizzle chest. Hey, yo, yo, YOOU,you froggie motherfucker. So dis Irish paddy mick; and dis black jungle-bunny; and dis hymie kike walks inna bar. And dey looks around. And dey walks up to da ba'. And da ba'tender looks at 'em, an'says: "What? What is dis? Some kinda joke?" Now get da fuck outta here, Mr. UnPleasent, 'fore I put a boot up ya fuckin' ass, ya rat bastid.

Sure.    

My mom bought me "Grrr". I'm not joking. She went to a trip, returned and asked me if I had that piece of plastic.   I asked her about the money involved, and she told me not to worry. It was a christmas present in advance.  I have the best mom in the world, and I'm a sorry son.  Have pity on me before I die.

LadyJane wrote on Dec 4^th, 2012 at 11:19am:

"But where's the evidence for his views? On the three or four YouTube videos of the song, clearly the band are digging the performance greatly. Not once can you see a smirk or look of disdain on any of their faces. And what, in his view, made Welch "ridiculous" (as opposed to, say, just not being very good or whatever)." Seemingly he just "knows". Here read for yourself. The regular print is me and that in italics is him: ___________________________________________________________________ Do you honestly think Mick Jagger would apologize to a "hired hand" during a performance? LOL Yes , I still think that even Mick Jagger is capable of human reactions and I still think that he is able to think of  Lisa as a friend and not a hired hand Who do you think invited her to perform?? My money is on Jagger. mine too ,but its only marketing Towards the end of the song Keith gives Flo a nice nod and big smile. He did that for Aguileira too , if you think that Keith enjoyed this "performance" you know nothing about Keith - period Florence Welch many not be YOUR cup of tea but the Band clearly enjoyed her yes ,if you interprete joking and laughing as enjoying - they did as did most of the fans I know who were there and/or have viewed the clips. Of course this is all in my humble f'ing opinion. btw , I cant understand that a Stones purist thinks that this ridiculous appearance has something remarkable but even if you enjoyed it (I have no problem with it) ,why you cant stand another opinion ?

What a silly twat.

WaiteringOnAFiend wrote on Dec 4^th, 2012 at 1:33pm:

Here's another of Welch and The Stains... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-V7VkQKW6eM&feature=plcp "Oh little Flo, How I love you so, Especially in your nightie. When the moonlight flits, Across your tits, Oh jesus christ almighty". Having said that - 'Flo' was maybe basing her performance a tdsy too much on Shezza 'Nipples' Crow's turn with the Stones (on HTW) Personally I think Blige rode the Stones groove train perfectly and appreciate why & that she has been invited for saucy seconds.

;D ;D

http://www.retrosellers.com/images/pc105.jpg