Tue May 13, 9:02 AM ET

:youmademecrylikeababy LONDON (AFP) - Albert Einstein described belief in God as "childish superstition" and said Jews were not the chosen people, in a letter to be sold in London this week, an auctioneer said Tuesday.

The father of relativity, whose previously known views on religion have been more ambivalent and fuelled much discussion, made the comments in response to a philosopher in 1954.

As a Jew himself, Einstein said he had a great affinity with Jewish people but said they "have no different quality for me than all other people".

"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish.

"No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this," he wrote in the letter written on January 3, 1954 to the philosopher Eric Gutkind, cited by The Guardian newspaper.

The German-language letter is being sold Thursday by Bloomsbury Auctions in Mayfair after being in a private collection for more than 50 years, said the auction house's managing director Rupert Powell.

In it, the renowned scientist, who declined an invitation to become Israel's second president, rejected the idea that the Jews are God's chosen people.

"For me the Jewish religion like all others is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions," he said.

"And the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong and with whose mentality I have a deep affinity have no different quality for me than all other people."

And he added: "As far as my experience goes, they are no better than other human groups, although they are protected from the worst cancers by a lack of power. Otherwise I cannot see anything 'chosen' about them."

Previously the great scientist's comments on religion -- such as "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind" -- have been the subject of much debate, used notably to back up arguments in favour of faith.

Powell said the letter being sold this week gave a clear reflection of Einstein's real thoughts on the subject. "He's fairly unequivocal as to what he's saying. There's no beating about the bush," he told AFP.

another self-hating jew...........

the cross ron wood was wearing during the shine a light movie was awesome.  i believe he is a believer.

:willya

this makes much more sense to me than his e=mc² !

Yeah sure, god's chosen.  Where I went to school, most of them guys couldn't even get picked for kickball.

The greatest graffiti that I ever read was on the wall in a men's room in Athens, Georgia.


It read-

"God is dead-Nietzsche"

"Nietzche is dead-God"



Riffy

Riffhard wrote on May 13^th, 2008 at 6:09pm:

The greatest graffiti that I ever read was on the wall in a men's room in Athens, Georgia. It read- "God is dead-Nietzsche" "Nietzche is dead-God" Riffy

the best graffiti line i ever read in a mans stall.

you know how the door never reaches the floor...well, there were 2 magic marker arrows pointing towards the floor and the caption line read,   caution, limbo dancers.

God Bless :warhorse :pukey Albert :blankfriggingstare1

Do you really believe that god came down from heaven and spoke to a tribe of desert nomads. What about all the other "chosen people" god has talked to. I find it interesting that god only talks to people in the desert in the mid-east and not oriental people in Japan or black people in Africa or south american people. There is no god, it's a made up way for the those in power to keep everyone in line.

:keithpunky

chris girard wrote on May 13^th, 2008 at 8:42pm:

Do you really believe that god came down from heaven and spoke to a tribe of desert nomads. What about all the other "chosen people" god has talked to. I find it interesting that god only talks to people in the desert in the mid-east and not oriental people in Japan or black people in Africa or south american people. There is not god, it's a made up way for the those in power to keep everyone in line. :keithpunky

If it's ok by you Chris I'm gonna continue to believe and pray to God. You cool with that? I mean if I'm wrong then when I die I will have nothing to lose. You on the other hand may well be screwed.


Riffy

Oy Riffy, religion too?  

So what''s going to happen to poor Chris?  Take the wrong exit off the turnpike and end up in Newark?  (It's happened to me.  And it kind of seemed like, well, you know.)

Zack wrote on May 13^th, 2008 at 8:56pm:

Oy Riffy, religion too?   So what''s going to happen to poor Chris?  Take the wrong exit off the turnpike and end up in Newark?  (It's happened to me.  And it kind of seemed like, well, you know.)

Oh Zack give it a rest! The guy makes an insanley judgmental comment on what he does not believe and in the same post he belittles everyone that is a believer. I'm not gonna sit around and have some athiest cast judgement on me. Don't want to believe? I could really care less. Good for you, but don't you fucking dare try and belittle my faith! You jump on me?!?!?!!!! Did you even fucking read Chris' post?! Did you not find it a little bit judgemental? Because you'd have to be blind not to see it that way. That's exactly what he was trying to do. Chris has got it all figured out. Billions of people around the world are just too stupid to figure out what Chris figured out years ago.


Riffy

Riffy/Zak--I would  never try to make people think the way I do or even try to convince them I am right. I respect you and what you believe, always will.

chris girard wrote on May 13^th, 2008 at 9:19pm:

Riffy/Zak--I would  never try to make people think the way I do or even try to convince them I am right. I respect you and what you believe, always will.

Then we're cool. The same goes for me btw with regards to the religion question.


Riffy

I'm rather sorry I went to Catholic school - it made me less realistic than I should be.  I'm catching up, though.

Catholic school thread, all?

For mine the trouble with religious faith, no matter what the strain or stripe, particularly post Enlightenment and especially post nuclear ( hey the einstein connection! ) is it's unreasonableness. Faith (almost by defintion) allows or is a manifestation of belief in something notwithstanding a lack of evidence for believing so or, indeed, despite the presence of (often overwhelming) evidence to the contrary. Consequently it can be seen as  an indicator of (and often often seeks to exploit) the feeble minded.

that's why I go for Bhuddism - it has no gods or theology - a human response to the human conditon but one which still acknowledges the existence  of some kind of universal force - without the somewhat childish (to borrow einstein's description) need to anthropomorphize it

stonedinaustralia wrote on May 13^th, 2008 at 10:39pm:

For mine the trouble with religious faith, no matter what the strain or stripe) particularly post Enlightenment and especially post nuclear ( hey the einstein connection! ) is it's unreasonableness. Faith (almost by defintion) allows or is a manifestation of belief in something notwithstanding a lack of evidence for believing so or, indeed, despite the presence of (often overwhelming) evidence to the contrary. Consequently can be seen as  an indicator of and it often often seeks to exploit the feeble minded. that's why I go for Bhuddism - it has no gods or theology - a human response to the human conditon but one which still acknowledges the existence  of some kind of universal force - without the somewhat childish (to borrow einstein's description) need to to anthropomorphize it

It's all too complicated for my small brain. Hell just exists because some people deserve to go to Hell, at least for awhile...like the Burmese Junta. A little Hell punishment wouldn''t hurt them guys.

The fact is that the belief in science and a belief in God are not exclusive of each other. They can be compatible. In fact there have been many many scientists that absolutly insist on the exsistance of God. While one may differ on the term with which to describe God, there is ample scientific evidence to support the positon of a God figure's exsitence. I could link many different sites that point this out, but hey...do your own damn research! ;) ! Google "Science proves the exsitence of God", and see what you get. Many very facinating articles that are written by some of the world's preemminent scientists. I believe in God because I have had personal events in my life which have borne out my belief.


I do agree with you SIA that certain relgions use their theology to bend the way their particular adherants think and behave. Feeble minds are easy to bend. One needs look no furthur than radical Islam for proof of this. However, I can't fault God for that. No. That's man made relgious affiliations that are soley responsible for that crap. The pollution of God's word if you will. In the case of Islam though there can be zero doubt that the actual religion is a theology that preaches hatered of the infidel, etc.

Read Willful Blindness by Andrew McCarthey. That book lays out some facts about the religion of Islam that most people are, well, willfully blind to. Andrew McCarthey was the lead prosecutor in the "Blind Sheik" case from the 1st bombing of the World Trade Center back in 1994. The book is stunning.


Riffy

Alcohol makes me happy.

I prayed today, I prayed tonight. I don't need no religion, so I got you all beat.
If you can't find God without religion, well, I'd say that's pretty funny, because God is everywhere. and you might not like this, but God, unlike people, doesn't take sides or play favorites, that's a human flaw, and it is evidenced in the writings people have created concerning god and the contrived religions. Even the atheist and agnostic have faith, they must or they wouldn't be able to function. It's just how they choose to use that faith. It's usually in the form of buses running on time kinda stuff.
I just find the archaic my god is better than your god, just like saying I got more money than you or my dick is bigger than yours. How fucking insecure are we, as people? Really!!!
It's really simple. Help others, don't hurt others... and you're happy. You don't even need to beleive in god or pray to live like that, and you can still do gods work.

chris girard wrote on May 13^th, 2008 at 8:42pm:

Do you really believe that god came down from heaven and spoke to a tribe of desert nomads. What about all the other "chosen people" god has talked to. I find it interesting that god only talks to people in the desert in the mid-east and not oriental people in Japan or black people in Africa or south american people. There is no god, it's a made up way for the those in power to keep everyone in line. :keithpunky

Belief in such fairy tales has existed since caveman needed an explanation as to natural phenemenon.  That it still exists today is an anachronism.   Generally it is a crutch for the feeble minded or those with a screw loose.

Pdog wrote on May 14^th, 2008 at 12:27am:

I prayed today, I prayed tonight. I don't need no religion, so I got you all beat. If you can't find God without religion, well, I'd say that's pretty funny, because God is everywhere. and you might not like this, but God, unlike people, doesn't take sides or play favorites, that's a human flaw, and it is evidenced in the writings people have created concerning god and the contrived religions. Even the atheist and agnostic have faith, they must or they wouldn't be able to function. It's just how they choose to use that faith. It's usually in the form of buses running on time kinda stuff. I just find the archaic my god is better than your god, just like saying I got more money than you or my dick is bigger than yours. How fucking insecure are we, as people? Really!!! It's really simple. Help others, don't hurt others... and you're happy. You don't even need to beleive in god or pray to live like that, and you can still do gods work.

     “The Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together.”

Pdog wrote on May 14^th, 2008 at 12:27am:

I prayed today, I prayed tonight. I don't need no religion, so I got you all beat. If you can't find God without religion, well, I'd say that's pretty funny, because God is everywhere. and you might not like this, but God, unlike people, doesn't take sides or play favorites, that's a human flaw, and it is evidenced in the writings people have created concerning god and the contrived religions. Even the atheist and agnostic have faith, they must or they wouldn't be able to function. It's just how they choose to use that faith. It's usually in the form of buses running on time kinda stuff. I just find the archaic my god is better than your god, just like saying I got more money than you or my dick is bigger than yours. How fucking insecure are we, as people? Really!!! It's really simple. Help others, don't hurt others... and you're happy. You don't even need to beleive in god or pray to live like that, and you can still do gods work.

Amen.

this is a good movie- www.expelledthemovie.com

chris girard wrote on May 13^th, 2008 at 8:42pm:

Do you really believe that god came down from heaven and spoke to a tribe of desert nomads. What about all the other "chosen people" god has talked to. I find it interesting that god only talks to people in the desert in the mid-east and not oriental people in Japan or black people in Africa or south american people. There is no god, it's a made up way for the those in power to keep everyone in line. :keithpunky

Actually, "those in power" have continued over the last 10-15 years to erode Christian principles in society. For the sake of human rights, society will continue to crumble. What many call successes and human advancement, are actually detrimental changes to the strength of society which lies on the foundation of the family.

One aspect of Christianity that's always amazed me is that they pray for non-believers every day. They don't even know you or those people that share your beliefs. That's a fairly strong example of human compassion - something this world desperately needs more of, but fades daily.

Its always amazed me that people who lack faith have to publicly and repeatedly dictate that "there is no God" and criticize people of faith because "there's no proof" of a (Christian) God. Exactly what is your proof, then, for you to contradict?

Lazy B. i think chrisg was making the point that despite claims to the contrary  no one religion has a mortgage over what "god" is or isn't

I mean in a sense isn't it all a question of definition. If you defined god as an elctro-magnetic force then I would agree "it' exists. But if you posit some "being' who takes an interventionist role in human affairs then I would suggest you have let your thinking get clouded

In my view a lot of this religious stuff is perpetrated because people are unwilling to  discredit things their parents have told them (and thus it is handed down generation after generation). see e.g. Mel Gibson whose defense of his hard-core Catholic beliefs includes the statement that he believes because his father did  and his "daddy wouldn't lie to me"

having said that one should be careful to make the distinction between a belief in God as oppposed to support of a church the latter being more than anything vehicles for social engineering (i.e. keeping property and assets (and children!!) with 'the group" and excluding outsiders)

and as pdog has (rightfully imho) pointed out you don't need god(s) to lead a moral life

:smokingI just hope there is a God so I can listen to to any Rolling Stones bootleg I want in heaven...

Meanwhile, I was still thinking....

Einstein's letter about religion sells for $400K.

Fri, May, 11:41 AM ET

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20080513/capt.7cfd5a964d724df4869c3ef7f601bde2.britain_einstein_letter_lkw102.jpg

LONDON - A letter in which Albert Einstein dismissed the idea of God as the product of human weakness and the Bible as "pretty childish" has sold at auction for more than $400,000.

Bloomsbury Auctions said Friday that the handwritten letter sold to an overseas collector after frenetic bidding late Thursday in London. The sale price of $404,000, including the buyer's premium, was more than 25 times the pre-sale estimate.

Bloomsbury did not identify the buyer, but managing director Rupert Powell said it was someone with "a passion for theoretical physics and all that that entails."

"This extraordinary letter seemed to strike a chord, and it gave a deep personal insight one of the greatest minds of the 20th century," Powell said.

The letter was written to philosopher Eric Gutkind in January 1954, a year before Einstein's death. In it, the Einstein said that "the word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish."

Einstein experts say the letter supports the argument that the physicist held complex, agnostic views on religion. He rejected organized faith but often spoke of a spiritual force at work in the universe.

Einstein's most famous legacy is the special theory of relativity, which makes the point that a large amount of energy could be released from a tiny amount of matter, as expressed in the equation EMC2 (energy equals mass times the speed of light squared).

The theory changed the face of physics, allowing scientists to make predictions about space and paving the way for nuclear power and the atomic bomb.

I have Hope and I have Faith, that's not just 2 strippers from Albuquerque- DLR

chris girard wrote on May 13^th, 2008 at 8:42pm:

Do you really believe that god came down from heaven and spoke to a tribe of desert nomads. What about all the other "chosen people" god has talked to. I find it interesting that god only talks to people in the desert in the mid-east and not oriental people in Japan or black people in Africa or south american people. There is no god, it's a made up way for the those in power to keep everyone in line. :keithpunky

No one religion has a monopoly on god, all people throughout the world have some sort of god. I just finshed reading a book called "God" and its about all the beliefs that exist in all religions in the world. It is amazing how similar some of the beliefs are in the world. I really find it hard to believe that someone is up there looking down and judging us. But I must admit I ask now and then is this all there is for us???? Is this it and then its over? Don't know the answer to those questions? Do we get a 2nd chance-I doubt it, but it is nice to think about.

I hope I have not upset too many of the people on the board by being so bold. It's comforting to know that there are other people out there that think the Stones are the best band.

Religion is a very personal thing, I'm Christian myself, what was said in the Bible always made sense to me, people can believe in whatever higher power they want, I say, keep a open mind, the only religion I don't trust is Islam, Their trouble makers, big time!!