ROCKS OFF - The Rolling Stones Message Board

Cool, thanks for sharing

Great article and pictures :booze

Sycophantic, shabbily researched, and poorly edited. Rubber LIPPED Mick Jagger, not hipped.

Glad to know Brian drank his milk.

Hi Suzy. Nice avatar and sig pic.

It is a recoup of what most Stones fans have heard before time and time again. I guess one could say it was interesting
nonetheless. :) ;D 8-) ::) :keithpunky :charliesgoodtonite

Many fans don't know HOW important Brian was to the early Rolling Stones!
And loved by the fans in those days.

Always get the shivers when I listen to his slide on No Expectations.
Poor beautiful Brian . .

CousinC wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2008 at 8:51pm:

Amen, and Amen. It's always good to read the true story about the beginning of the Stones, and Brian's part in it. I hope that truth is never completely covered up. History is important.

I do agree with you both. The articles also keep his starting the band and his contributions and his influence alive and will do so forever.
I just meant it was something a lot of us had seen before. But never hurts to repeat as often as necessary. :) ;D 8-) ::) :booze :willya

BTW how do you type in different colors on here?

Zack wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2008 at 6:56pm:

Sycophantic, shabbily researched, and poorly edited. Rubber LIPPED Mick Jagger, not hipped.

Glad to know Brian drank his milk.

Second that ... Wildly overstates Brian's contribution to the record, "No Expectations" slide work notwithstanding.

No I don't think so. In fact, it was nice to see a published article get it correct for a change, as opposed to the twins revising history and erasing Brian from the Stones' history.

What was incorrect was that Brian was together during this period, as seen in the Sympathy for the Devil film, ie sober and contributing. And after his second bust in '68 during the midst of the recording of Beggars, Brian quit drugs because he was too paranoid of going to prison.

"Jones was dismissed during the sessions, in June 1969, and replaced in the band he’d started by Mick Taylor, the 20-year-old Les Paul wielding guitarist from John Mayall’s Bluesbreakers. That was arguably the beginning of the Stones’ greatest twin-guitar dynasty, with Taylor’s virtuosity lifting things up a notch."

That part is true.

Yes Mick Taylor is an outstanding guitarist. I am glad he is still touring, maybe if he comes close to my area I will go see him.

I think Bill was/is an excellent bass guitarist as well. Now I would really love to see The Rhythm Kings.

I know this may sound silly but if Brian was still alive I would love to see all Seven of the Rolling Stones on stage at one time.
I bet that would be excellent. But it is only a thought. :) ;D ;) 8-) :charliesgoodtonite :booze

GhostofBrianJones wrote on Apr 25^th, 2008 at 5:52pm:

At the end of the day, I don't disparage Brian's crucial role in the Stones and his formidable musical talent. I wish things had worked out better for him in his life and the band. His death was unlikely and very fishy. Above all, tragic for such a young man.

Zack wrote on Apr 25^th, 2008 at 8:50pm:

GhostofBrianJones wrote on Apr 25^th, 2008 at 5:52pm:

Thank you, Zack. I agree totally. [smiley=dankk2.gif] :)

I don't really know too much about Beggars Banquet and the recording sessions and whatever else went on. Just bits and
pieces is all I know. I have some photos and some small articles on it and that is about it for me. It gets complicated trying
to figure out timelines, recording sessions, places they toured, their women, their differences in music, writing and etc.
They knew and met hundreds of famous people and not so famous people in their years as a band together. I would think
there is so much more for them to write about and even say then we already know. The Stones believe it or not are
a very discreet band. As well they should be. I often think that Bill could have probably written a lot more if he had
chosen to do so. And if he did it would most likely be in numbered volumes?? ;D But he was a gentleman when he
wrote his books and wrote them from the appropriate point of view without hurting his bandmates. YEAH BILL!! 8-)

:booze :weed

An excellent read. Thanks. :)

Zack wrote on Apr 25^th, 2008 at 12:13pm:

"Jones was dismissed during the sessions, in June 1969,"

That part is true.

Not necessarily:

Stone Alone, Bill Wyman, p. 521:

"Towards the end of May [1969], during a recording session, Brian intimated that he was thinking of leaving to pursue his own career. Nobody was particulary surprised."

Alexis Korner to Mark Andrews, Golden Stone, Laura Jackson, p. 197-198:

"Without a doubt your father felt that a great weight had been lifted off his shoulders once he had finally quit the Stones. He knew what he wanted, and that it was no longer with the band. He wanted back to R&B. He was writing songs too and working very hard. I was with him a lot during this time and he was in very fine fettle indeed."

What about the June 9 visit to Cotchford Farm by Mick, Keith, and Charlie? It wasn't to give him a bonus. Some reports have him weeping after they left Sussex to head back to London.

before the article is removed this is the text

’68 Flashback: The Rolling Stones Make Beggars Banquet and Lose Brian Jones―The Band’s Original Blues Heart and Soul
Ted Drozdowski | 04.23.2008
By early 1968, quaaludes, acid, weed, and booze had taken their toll on guitarist Brian Jones. As the rest of the Rolling Stones toiled in the studio, the once Apollonian rock star straggled in whenever he pleased, sometimes so dazed that Keith Richards and Mick Jagger would beg producer Jimmy Miller to boot him out―or at least keep him isolated from the rest of the band while they were recording so the inappropriate parts he’d play didn’t bleed into anybody else’s microphone.

Nonetheless, by the time Beggars Banquet was completed, Jones had left his imprint on the album, playing slide beautifully on “No Expectations,” adding melodic sitar and Eastern European tambura to “Street Fighting Man,” coloring “Jigsaw Puzzle” and “Stray Cat Blues” with mellotron, and blowing blues harp on “Dear Doctor,” “Parachute Woman,” and “Prodigal Son.” No matter how difficult to achieve Jones’ contributions may have been, they are indelible parts of a historic album and, at their best, a reminder that Jones was at one time the Stones’ musical heart and soul.

At the time Jones was still a crown prince of the international rock scene. In London he’d been instrumental in bringing attention to Jimi Hendrix; in the States he’d been a conduit for the English bands that played 1967’s Monterey International Pop Festival; and in far-off Joujouka, he’d helped musician and journalist Robert Palmer bring the Master Musicians to the attention of the Western world. But a little more than six months after the December ’68 release of Beggars Banquet, Jones would be found dead in his swimming pool.

Before he became the lead role in his own rock tragedy, Jones was a schoolboy who fell in love with jazz and blues: first Charlie Parker and then Elmore James, Robert Johnson, and Muddy Waters. He even gave himself the stage name Elmo Lewis when he began playing blues in London’s clubs during the early ’60s, and former Stones’ bassist Bill Wyman claims Jones was among the very first young British bluesmen to play slide.

It was Jones who recruited Jagger for his band after he met the rubber hipped singer at a jam session with fellow English blues pioneer Alexis Korner’s group at London’s Ealing Club. Jagger in turn brought in his pal Richards, and with the addition of Ian Stewart on piano and some inspiration from a Muddy Waters’ song, the Rolling Stones were formed.

Jones taught Jagger harmonica and was the band’s indisputable leader in its early years, dredging his record collection for material to adapt with the group’s youthful energy. In those days it was Jones who lit up the stage, swaying and weaving with his guitar and harmonica while Jagger stood stock still as he sang. Jones also booked the gigs and plugged the shows to promoters and the press.

Those jobs were surrendered to manager Andrew Loog Oldham when he signed on, leaving Jones to tend to the music until the Jagger/Richards imprinted songs began arriving with greater frequency and the nucleus of the Rolling Stones reconfigured around their creative partnership.

Jones and Richards developed the dual-guitar interplay that became the band’s hallmark while listening to the Chicago blues tag-team of Eddie Taylor and Jimmy Reed on Reed’s hits like “Big Boss Man” and “Baby What You Want Me to Do.” But Jones’ abilities as an instrumentalist stretched well beyond the customs of blues.

From the 1964 debut album The Rolling Stones to Beggars Banquet, besides guitar, sitar, harmonica, mellotron, and tambura, Jones can be heard playing dulcimer, organ, recorder, congas, xylophone, accordion, harpsichord, sax, and oboe, and singing harmony. His main instruments, though, were his guitars: primarily a green Gretsch Double Anniversary model and the teardrop shaped Vox Phantom Mark III that would become his signature axe. For electric 12-strings, he relied on Rickenbackers. Jones also played a Gibson Les Paul, an ES-330, and a clutch of Firebirds, and typically pumped his guitars through Vox AC-30s.

With the Stones, Jones cemented his blues credentials as well as the band’s. In addition to original songs written under the inspiration of their African-American idols, the early Stones dipped into the genre’s canon with Jones at the fore. He played slide on Rolling Stones recordings of Howlin’ Wolf’s “Little Red Rooster,” harmonica on Waters’ “I Just Want to Make Love to You” (and the Stones-penned tribute to Chess Studios, “2120 South Michigan Avenue”), and sang harmony on their chart busting Irma Thomas cover “Time is on My Side,” among other tunes.

Mick Jagger has long been criticized―even by Keith Richards―for dabbling in trends with the Stones. That practice may have started with the album just before Beggars Banquet, the still hotly debated Their Satanic Majesties Request. Although “She’s a Rainbow” made the Top 40 and the album hit No. 2 on the pop charts, many fans saw its spacey sonics―exemplified by “2000 Light Years from Home”―as a bid to cash in on the psychedelic rock craze, popularized in the London underground by Pink Floyd and in the international pop realm by innovative Beatles and Beach Boys albums.

Beggars Banquet was a return to the R&B roots that made the Stones famous. It was also the first in a string of hallmark albums that would become the bedrock of their musical legacy, lasting through 1976’s Black and Blue.

Although Richards was the driving chain of Beggars Banquet, he was still operating under the influence of Jones as much as that of his blues idols―even if Richards was disillusioned with Jones’ dissipation. Legend has it that if Jones was in the mood to play, he’d check the calendar to see if the Stones were in the studio. Then he’d show up at the session with whatever instrument he was currently infatuated with―sitar, tambura―and insist on playing it, appropriate or not. That didn’t improve Jones’ stock with his bandmates, who’d already put him on notice. Miller would typically place Jones in an isolation booth or behind baffles in the studio while the rest of the group recorded live to keep his sound away from the band’s.

Still, Jones had flashes of brilliance, like the ringing slide on “No Expectations.” And his sitar and tambura were subtle textures with just enough paisley trimmings to help make “Street Fighting Man” sound like an anthem in 1968 instead of the mere pop song its authors had intended. When the disc was released, after the band struggled for several months with its record label over the bathroom wall graffiti album cover they’d designed, Beggars Banquet was the best LP the Stones had made to date, with a gritty sound that honored their history and a mature songwriting style that foreshadowed their future triumphs.

Sadly, those were achieved without Jones. Despite warnings from Jagger and Richards after the entreaties of friendship failed, Jones continued his terrible downward slide. For the Stones’ next album, the magnificent country and blues inspired Let It Bleed, Jones contributed only congas to “Midnight Rambler” and autoharp to “You Got the Silver,” which features Richards’ first recorded lead vocal performance. Jones was dismissed during the sessions, in June 1969, and replaced in the band he’d started by Mick Taylor, the 20-year-old Les Paul wielding guitarist from John Mayall’s Bluesbreakers.

That was arguably the beginning of the Stones’ greatest twin-guitar dynasty, with Taylor’s virtuosity lifting things up a notch. But days before Taylor stood in Jones’ shoes on stage for the first time, the band’s estranged founder was discovered on July 3, 1969, at the bottom of his swimming pool. Despite Jagger and Richards’ early emergence as the group’s star songwriting team, the sound of the first nine Stones albums and a stack of singles released from 1962 to 1968 all remain part of Jones’ enduring legacy.

Zack wrote on Apr 27^th, 2008 at 6:05pm:

What about the June 9 visit to Cotchford Farm by Mick, Keith, and Charlie? It wasn't to give him a bonus. Some reports have him weeping after they left Sussex to head back to London.

It's the old "was he pushed -- did he leap" debate and to me it always seemed a little of both. They'd clearly had enough. I think he also wanted out at the end, but it wasn't the easiest thing to walk away from. So in some ways I see him forcing their hand; at the end he just stopped showing up, a nice passive aggressive touch. The June 9 meeting seems mere formality. According to Mick and Keith, he wasn't surprised by the topic and he was also given the choice to stay. He chose not to. I think both sides ultimately got what they wanted.

And I wouldn't be surprised if he did in fact cry after they left -- I imagine people who end a painful relationship and know it was the right thing to do might still mourn its passing. Afterall, he formed and spent 7 years -- his entire adult life really -- with the Stones.

zooeyglass wrote on Apr 27^th, 2008 at 8:26pm:

Zack wrote on Apr 27^th, 2008 at 6:05pm:

What about the June 9 visit to Cotchford Farm by Mick, Keith, and Charlie? It wasn't to give him a bonus. Some reports have him weeping after they left Sussex to head back to London.

Perfectly put, zooeyglass....thank you!

I'm always amazed by his credit on Midnight Rambler. Was his "percussion" parts deleted from the final product? I know it wont happen, but i'd love to hear a version with his congas on it.

Zack wrote on Apr 27^th, 2008 at 6:05pm:

What about the June 9 visit to Cotchford Farm by Mick, Keith, and Charlie? It wasn't to give him a bonus. Some reports have him weeping after they left Sussex to head back to London.

zooeyglass wrote on Apr 27^th, 2008 at 8:26pm:

It's rubbish. Brian was elated when he quit the Stones. Ronni Money, Brian's father Lewis, and Mary Hallet have all confirmed this. I believe it was Tom Keylock who said Brian was crying, and as we know Tom Keylock is a lying sack of shit, the same Tom Keylock who looted Brian's home after he was killed.

Les Perrin's wife Janie related that she got a long, unhappy telegram from him the next morning that worried her, but by the time she called him he was fine. So Brian's immediate reaction upon their departure doesn't seem to have been one of pure elation. In his remaining weeks, yes, most who had contact with Brian reported he was happy and moving forward with plans for a new band.

ROCKS OFF - The Rolling Stones Message Board
http://rocksoff.org/cgi-bin/messageboard/YaBB.pl GENERAL >> MAIN BOARD >> Incredible article about Brian Jones and Beg Banq http://rocksoff.org/cgi-bin/messageboard/YaBB.pl?num=1208988050 Message started by GarpJarp on Apr 23^rd, 2008 at 5:00pm