Is there any truth to the rumor that the Stones have dropped Brown Sugar from the setlist because woke fuckwits have labeled it "problematic"?

If this is in another thread, apologies in advance, and delete

BS is my favorite warhorse and I'd be disappointed if they bowed to the "woke" twitter mob

There's been no official reason given why they're not playing it, so I would guess its either

a)  They're tired of it (after JJF, its their second most performed song)

b)  they've decided (be it their own decision or bowing to outside influences) that its no longer appropriate

My money is on b).

Good article:

"If the Rolling Stones released “Brown Sugar” today, no matter how quickly they wrote the song, the backlash would be instant. Twitter would lampoon them with carefully thought out hashtags. Multiple Change.org petitions would be signed. The band would be forced to issue an apology. (“It’s only rock and roll, and we’re very sorry we offended you.”)"

https://www.vulture.com/2015/04/brown-sugar-still-tastes-good.html

Half of their catalogue wouldn't survive. Shiver.

Deleted.

Hey, they dropped Satisfaction for a few tours....let us not jump to conclusions...I am fairly certain that, if they continue, it will return at some point.

A third and probably not likely theory: maybe they just didn't like how it sounded with Steve?

They gave "sympathy" a long rest at one point, when too many people were
mistakenly interpreting it as a devil-worship song. Once enough sanity returned,
so did "sympathy".

When i see how many people, including many stones fans, are mistakenly interpreting
"sugar" as a racist song, it wouldnt surprise me if the band were giving it a similar
rest. American cultural sanity is in short supply at the moment.

It was far too long and could use a rest. Not sure if Keith's fingers can play it anymore. Several bum notes on past tours.

gimmekeef wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2021 at 8:30pm:

It was far too long and could use a rest. Not sure if Keith's fingers can play it anymore. Several bum notes on past tours.

They could have used BS as a shortened opener.  Look how fast Wild Horses zips by these days.

Fuckers were grooving to it long before they knew what the lyrics were.

The mystery revealed:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/entertainment/news/the-rolling-stones-explain-why-they-arent-playing-brown-sugar-on-their-current-tour/ar-AAPnoCK?li=BBnbfcL

Keith: "I’m hoping that we’ll be able to resurrect the babe in her glory somewhere along the track.”

gimmekeef wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2021 at 8:30pm:

It was far too long and could use a rest. Not sure if Keith's fingers can play it anymore. Several bum notes on past tours.

He played it perfectly when I saw them in 2019.

Brown Sugar related posts will be deleted - posting access to be deleted as well      

The first rule of Brown Sugar is: you do not talk about Brown Sugar. The second rule of Brown Sugar is: you DO NOT talk about Brown Sugar!

:'(

Gazza wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2021 at 9:26am:

There's been no official reason given why they're not playing it, so I would guess its either a)  They're tired of it (after JJF, its their second most performed song) b)  they've decided (be it their own decision or bowing to outside influences) that its no longer appropriate My money is on b).

**************************
Ladies and Gentlemen, the Woken Stones!

Great comments about this ludicrous decision to drop / defer BS by the excellent, 'clear thinker', Nigel Farage on GB News 13th Oct.   Whatever next???  Housewives complaining about Under My Thumb?!!  Macron moaning about SFM?!!!   There are enough loonies around to try and wipe out the whole back catalogue!!!  They are classic works of art.  If you don't like them then press 'mute'!!!   Of course the 'nonsense' started in the '60s when yank TV forced them to sing 'Let's Spend Some Time Together'!!!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10085975/Rolling-Stones-drop-hit-song-Brown-Sugar-tour-set-list-now.html

It goes back a long ways. Changing Spend The Night to Time Together etc...Some Girls...when I saw the Stones at SF Candlestick Park there was a Bi-Plane circling with a banner that said "Under My Thumb Puts Down Women" (paraphrasing cant remember exactly). Today you can't even fly over a packed stadium and maybe for good reason. They have always been edgy but maybe in a world of social media slavery is an edge too far? (Crap, my dogs name is Sugar)

Now more women will buy tickets and albums, and stop picketing stadiums!

exile wrote on Oct 14^th, 2021 at 8:21pm:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10085975/Rolling-Stones-drop-hit-song-Brown-Sugar-tour-set-list-now.html

The DM took the lyrics from the internet, with its "Skydog slaver" canard.

It's dropped because it has become politically incorrect. Yes it is viewed as racist although I always thought Brown Sugar represented heroin. I was corrected by two different Stones historians who told me the original working title was Black Pussy so yeah, it could be considered racist by the currently over-sensitive young generation who are offended by everything. So if it was called White Sugar would it be a problem?

We folded too early. They smell blood now. They won't stop until total cancellation is reached.

Bitch wrote on Oct 14^th, 2021 at 10:13pm:

So if it was called White Sugar would it be a problem?

I would be offended by that.
I dont use refined sugar.
I prefer Raw Turbinado sugar with is Lite Brown Sugar...how come it taste so good???

anyway, IMO...

Its just time to call it...the song more glorifies slavery than it being an "anti-slavery" song.

I recall our very own VooDoo explaining to me (maybe here, maybe in person, cant recall)  that in the 60s/70s, the Mexican heroine was called Brown Sugar...so I always took that as a double entendre, and still do.

If a warhorse had to be dropped, I am fine with that...glad to have seen 3 new songs in charlotte and last evening also show out 3 tour premiers... its a win-win in my book.

I could use a few more warhorses dropped if it means a refresh of the setlist.

BITCH...you never called me in Charlotte...I had a glass of sweet white wine waiting for you...

Bitch wrote on Oct 14^th, 2021 at 10:13pm:

It's dropped because it has become politically incorrect. Yes it is viewed as racist although I always thought Brown Sugar represented heroin. I was corrected by two different Stones historians who told me the original working title was Black Pussy so yeah, it could be considered racist by the currently over-sensitive young generation who are offended by everything. So if it was called White Sugar would it be a problem?

Jagger categorically stated in the sleeve notes to 'Jump Back' that the song was NEVER called 'Black Pussy'. The myth obviously pissed him off enough that he went out of his way to state this.

And even if it was, so what? It wasnt released under that title. Songs evolve during composition. A working title might have no reflection to the content.  No one has seen the original lyrics.  The working title for 'Slave' was 'Vagina', but before anyone gets excited about potentially misogynism - it didnt have any lyrics!


Someone made a good point on facebook that Mick hasnt sang the 'hear him whip the women' lyric in 'Brown sugar' for a very long time. He's been singing 'you should have heard me' instead.

Bitch wrote on Oct 14^th, 2021 at 10:13pm:

So if it was called White Sugar would it be a problem?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7C8aXcy18qc

Some Guy wrote on Oct 13^th, 2021 at 1:20pm:

Brown Sugar related posts will be deleted - posting access to be deleted as well

Yes, that was (still is?) the rule posted by bv on IORR.
Sad

Here is the article that started this:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/commentary/ct-perspec-rolling-stones-brown-sugar-racist-lyrics-20190524-story.html

Steel Wheels wrote on Oct 17^th, 2021 at 5:38am:

Here is the article that started this: https://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/commentary/ct-perspec-rolling-stones-brown-sugar-racist-lyrics-20190524-story.html

Idiotic article.
Though 'Brown Sugar' is one of my alltime fav Stones tunes (and will always be) I will not say anymore
as I don't want to be banned here from Rocksoff.
Sad Sad Sad

philgood wrote on Oct 17^th, 2021 at 12:29pm:

as I don't want to be banned here from Rocksoff.

Banned from Rocks Off? Come on!!! Yes, we have banned a few but for real reasons, we didn't ban one starting a thread "Fuck You Gazza, will ya?" and many others, the only thing we don't tolerate is real shit

after all "Brown Sugar" is a Rolling Stone song

philgood wrote on Oct 17^th, 2021 at 12:29pm:

Steel Wheels wrote on Oct 17th, 2021 at 5:38am: Here is the article that started this: https://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/commentary/ct-perspec-rolling-stones-brown-sugar-racist-lyrics-20190524-story.html Idiotic article. Though 'Brown Sugar' is one of my alltime fav Stones tunes (and will always be) I will not say anymore as I don't want to be banned here from Rocksoff. Sad Sad Sad

the article quoted above about banning people for discussing the song comes from IORR.

Post whatever the hell you want to say about it on here. We're not that precious.

Steel Wheels wrote on Oct 17^th, 2021 at 5:38am:

Here is the article that started this: https://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/commentary/ct-perspec-rolling-stones-brown-sugar-racist-lyrics-20190524-story.html

What a pile of shite. Its like a parody of Andrew Oldham phoning a newspaper in 1964 and suggesting they run a story titled 'would you let your daughter go with a Rolling Stone?'

Gazza wrote on Oct 17^th, 2021 at 5:38pm:

Steel Wheels wrote on Oct 17th, 2021 at 5:38am: Here is the article that started this: What a pile of shite.

for sure. but there was a real danger, in the current climate, that the mob was going
to pick up this torch and run with it.  in fact, given how wired-in the stones are,
they might have even gotten wind of something...

i mean, they get sent questions all the time by the media, so who knows how many
of those questions were suddenly about "brown sugar"

dropping the song (for now) has been only a slight distraction for a few

not dropping it (for now) could have possibly been used by mass and social media
to polarize many and ruin the overwhelmingly positive vibe of this tour

thinking about it some more, its quite similar to how they've handled the
vax-mask thing. give it your verbal support but enforce nothing.
don't alienate half your audience

they're always laying traps for our troubadours.
but the Stones keep refusing to fall into them

excerpted from, where else, the Daily Mail...:
(this story is hilarious in so many ways, but the funniest is how
many regulars over there joined in calling the song racist.
the second funniest is how everybody over there is afraid
to post this story)


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-10117969/How-woke-trolls-silenced-Brown-Sugar-infiltrating-Rolling-Stones-online-fan-club.html

How woke trolls silenced Brown Sugar: Activists targeted
Rolling Stones devotees by infiltrating their online fan club
and swaying debate over song's lyrics
By RICHARD EDEN

Rolling Stones fans were shocked when the band announced last week that they
were dropping one of their biggest hits, Brown Sugar, from their world tour.

Now, I can disclose extraordinary details of how an organised group of woke
activists systematically targeted hundreds of thousands of devotees around
the world by infiltrating their online fan club.

The group of campaigners posed as hardcore Stones superfans to get access
to the online subscription fan club IORR (named after their song It's Only
Rock 'n' Roll) before relentlessly hammering fans and discussion threads
with angry political trolling posts slamming the song's reference to slavery.

...according to IORR founder and Norwegian Stones superfan Bjornulf Vik.
He has now been forced to shut down the fan club's subscription service and has
started a widescale cull of new members to try to kick out woke activist interlopers.
Vik had warned rogue activist subscribers trolling fans on his site that angry political
posts about Brown Sugar would not be accepted.

Vik said: 'IORR has been spammed by political posts related to Brown Sugar lately.
'Like many other things, some people do make this a highly political discussion. It
seems like it is impossible for some to discuss Brown Sugar without getting highly
political and offensive.'

Subscription Service?

Shut down?

'I can disclose extraordinary details of how an organised group of woke activists systematically targeted hundreds of thousands of devotees around the world'  WTF?  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Gazza wrote on Oct 21^st, 2021 at 4:54pm:

'I can disclose extraordinary details of how an organised group of woke activists systematically targeted hundreds of thousands of devotees around the world'  WTF?  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I'm sure it was Dear Leader who furnished these "facts". He is also fond of saying
his site gets two million visitors a year. The more accurate way of saying it is that
the same 1000 people (which includes me) view an average of six pages a day.
In other words, two million page views, not visitors. And when he gets called out
on such things, he loves to say "well, english is not my language"

BAD TASTE WARNING


I just googled it. Unbelievable that nobody's done this parody yet. So...


gulf coast cruise ship bound for Cancun beach
i get lots of time off, that's why i teach
i still pass for 19, frat boy for life
the way this bitch drinks, she could be my ex wife

White Sugar, how come you dance so shit
White Sugar, just like you having a fit

Drum machine beat for a synthesized child
meth plus X equals girl gone wild
frat boy knows its money well spent
sex on a party boat worth a months rent

White Sugar, how come you dance so bad
White Sugar, just like your ol' step-dad

I bet your mama even wilder than you
i bet she taught you all the ways to screw
I'm no perv boy but I know what I like
i wanna watch you riding that ____

White Sugar, how come your mouth so sweet
ah come on, White Sugar
just like a, just like a, cat in heat
i said fuck, fuck, FUCK YEAH !

Mick Jagger, Singer, Tattoo You Deluxe, Oct 22 2021:


Quote:

i stole an election, took it to a fence tried to get the highest price well its a lie, its a lie i swear it on my mother's life my conscience is clear, i got nothing to hide

Bjornulf Vik, Leader, IORR Rolling Stones Fan Club, Oct 23 2021:

Quote:

The Daily Mail journalist contacted me every day for days, while I was in Los Angeles, asking for an interview. I told him every day the very same message: "Sorry I do not have any comments" Then the journalist asked again and again, and in the end he said this (quote): "I need to establish a few things about this Brown Sugar trolling of IORR story. I want to talk to you OFF THE RECORD. This means that I will not be quoting you in the article." So again I told him this: "Sorry I do not have any comments" Then the journalist made up his own story, pretending to have comments from me, making up a lot of strange comments that do not make any sense...

Daily Mail, British newspaper with worldwide editions, from the original story:


Quote:

Vik said: 'IORR has been spammed by political posts related to Brown Sugar lately. Like many other things, some people do make this a highly political discussion. It seems like it is impossible for some to discuss Brown Sugar without getting highly political and offensive.'

Eddie Byword, IORR fan club member, in response to Vik, Oct 23 2021:


Quote:

bv, isn't this one of your comments (in the Daily Mail) posted on iorr?  "Like many other things, some people do make this a highly political discussion. It seems like it is impossible for some to discuss Brown Sugar without getting highly political and offensive".

Javadave, IORR fan club member, in further response to Vik, Oct 23 2021:


Quote:

Eddie is right, the quote was lifted from BV’s message when he informed us that the discussion was being tabled (i.e. deleted completely with any mention of the song banned).

Bjornulf Vik, Leader, Oct 23 2021, in further response:


Quote:

I have posted 10,264 times. If you copy and paste one word here and one word there, from what I have posted here, that does not make any authorized interview or a comment or a quote for any story. We - the fans who go see them live - should be happy they are still able to tour and perform live.

Important Note: because we were unsure about the relevance of Vik's last comment
about being happy that the Stones are still touring, and knowing that he sometimes has trouble
with English, which is not his first language, we sought out and have secured what Vik actually
said in his native tongue before it was mangled by Google Translate:

"Dere ubetydelige små dritt er heldige at Vik fremdeles gjør denne flotte siden tilgjengelig for deg gratis"

We hope this clears up any misunderstanding...

This is the official statement by our friend Bjornulf Vik

UK Tabloid Daily Mail making up story about IORR fan club
Posted by: bv ()
Date: October 23, 2021 18:41

https://iorr.org/talk/read.php?1,2865998

---

The UK tabloid newspaper Daily Mail is featuring a story about the IORR fan club, as just published.

This is how the British Tabloids work:

First the Daily Mail journalist contacted me every day for days, while I was in Los Angeles, asking for an interview. I told him every day the very same message:

Sorry I do not have any comments

Then the journalist asked again and again, and in the end he said this (quote):

I need to establish a few things about this Brown Sugar trolling of IORR story.
I want to talk to you OFF THE RECORD. This means that I will not be quoting you in the article.

So again I told him this:

Sorry I do not have any comments

Then the journalist made up his own story, pretending to have comments from me, making up a lot of strange comments that do not make any sense, as seen below.

Don't believe a word of what the British tabloids print.

Revealed: How woke trolls silenced the Rolling Stones' Brown Sugar by infiltrating their online fan club and swaying debate over the song's lyrics (Daily Mail Oct 21, 2021)

Bjornulf

---

Rolling Stones fans fight back against woke cancellation of Brown Sugar by bombarding the band with requests to play the song at their concerts in 'fan favourite' vote
Rolling Stones have removed Brown Sugar from the setlist of their US tour
Came under fire from woke critics over lyrics about slavery and sexual violence
Now fans are fighting back and urging band to reintroduce the song to shows
Their are flooding a fan vote with requests for Brown Sugar at upcoming shows
By STEPHANIE LINNING FOR MAILONLINE

PUBLISHED: 06:26 EDT, 27 October 2021 | UPDATED: 06:26 EDT, 27 October 2021

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-10135491/Rolling-Stones-fans-fight-against-woke-cancelling-Brown-Sugar.html

Yap Yap 999 wrote on Oct 27^th, 2021 at 11:23am:

Now fans are fighting back and urging band to reintroduce the song to shows. Their are flooding a fan vote with requests for Brown Sugar at upcoming shows

Do we (the entire board) have grounds to sue here?
This is clearly libel and, let alone, not even possible.

Nanky...what say you???

Paranoid Android wrote on Oct 27^th, 2021 at 12:00pm:

Yap Yap 999 wrote on Oct 27th, 2021 at 11:23am: Now fans are fighting back and urging band to reintroduce the song to shows. Their are flooding a fan vote with requests for Brown Sugar at upcoming shows Do we (the entire board) have grounds to sue here? This is clearly libel and, let alone, not even possible. Nanky...what say you???

What does our dear leader(s) say? :willya :warhorse

I'd like to think they'll rip out a BS at the end of the last show of this tour, but I am perhaps a romantic where these guys are not. 

Maybe if we threw money at the stage.  Big, bank-banded wads of bills to cover their potential legal fees.  Because Karen's in the audience, and she's not that drunk on $12 beers.

Karen: "This is bad!  They swore that they weren't going to do this.  I'm going to sue, like I sued my wedding photographer."

andrews27 wrote on Nov 1^st, 2021 at 9:50am:

I'd like to think they'll rip out a BS at the end of the last show of this tour, but I am perhaps a romantic where these guys are not.  Maybe if we threw money at the stage.  Big, bank-banded wads of bills to cover their potential legal fees.  Because Karen's in the audience, and she's not that drunk on $12 beers. Karen: "This is bad!  They swore that they weren't going to do this.  I'm going to sue, like I sued my wedding photographer."

1 show left. Go ahead and play BS!  :willya

As its the last night of the US Tour (and possibly the last ever US gig), it'd be funny if just for the hell of it, they played the song 15 times in a row to make up for all the other shows where it was dropped.  Imagine the reaction.

(It would be even nuttier than the tour in 1973 where Neil Young played all of the at the time unreleased 'Tonights the Night' album, told the expectant and impatient audience 'heres a song you've heard before' and proceeded to play the title track again, before playing it one more time before the end of the night)

Maybe 'Hey Negrita' twice.
Let's get funky, queen.

https://i.imgur.com/yToHNty.jpg


C'mon clap your little hearts out !


https://i.imgur.com/p2oBcUk.jpg

Gazza wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2021 at 6:29pm:

As its the last night of the US Tour (and possibly the last ever US gig), it'd be funny if just for the hell of it, they played the song 15 times in a row to make up for all the other shows where it was dropped.  Imagine the reaction. (It would be even nuttier than the tour in 1973 where Neil Young played all of the at the time unreleased 'Tonights the Night' album, told the expectant and impatient audience 'heres a song you've heard before' and proceeded to play the title track again, before playing it one more time before the end of the night)

never heard that story...thats awesome!!

Claudia Lennear, the woman who inspired the Rolling Stones’
controversial song “Brown Sugar,” hopes the band reintroduces
it to their live set in the future.


https://i.imgur.com/wfUw47U.jpg



In a new interview with Spin, backing singer Lennear – who was dating frontman
Mick Jagger around the time “Brown Sugar” was written – said audiences were
“missing out on a great part of rock ’n’ roll history” via its absence. “When do
we learn to understand history without getting upset? Right now we’re not really
in that space,” she added. “I’m sensitive, but when it comes to poetic license,
I let go. It’s just a great riff. It’s a great hook. Keith Richards plays those first
two notes, everyone is on their feet, everybody’s clapping, dancing, singing.
When I hear it, my first thought is, ‘Long live the Rolling Stones.’”

She only appeared on one Stones song herself, 1973’s “Star Star,” and admitted
she didn’t like the lyrics, which explored the relationship between rock musicians
and groupies. She explained that she’d delivered her vocals “from a professional
standpoint.”

Lennear also discussed the fact that David Bowie wrote his 1973 song “Lady Grinning
Soul” about her during a period when the pair were dating. “You know, David will not
be outdone by a Rolling Stone,” she commented. “If a Rolling Stone says that they
wrote a song about me, he’s not to be left behind. He’s too competitive.”

https://ultimateclassicrock.com/rolling-stones-brown-sugar-inspiration/


p.s. LOVE this track from her solo album


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iT8R2g_3rkU

https://i.imgur.com/KzFc15F.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/GX4rLXF.jpg 
https://i.imgur.com/wB203Ns.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/nRvXHYo.jpg 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRntL77GUcw

How come ya, how come ya dance so good?

The Ikettes existed in one form or another for over 40 years, with over
50 women* filling those stilettos...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhNfkLJl0X0

Claudia was an Ikette from 1968-70 including on the US Stones tour
which is where she met Mick. Here's a longer taste of that iteration of
the Ikettes from the Hollywood Palace TV show...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXJO7uLEVJs

Claudia is considered to be one of the most successful ex-Ikettes
because of her work with Joe Cocker, Leon Russel, Humble Pie,
Delaney and Bonnie, Dave Mason etc. Her solo album Phew!
was not a big hit but some cuts off it certainly got a lot of play
in my house, with contributions from Ry Cooder, Jim Keltner, and
Allan Toussaint

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1YC6VXw6Wc

*the only white Ikette was Bonnie Bramlett, for 3 days in 1966,
and yes, she did perform in a black wig with makeup-darkened skin

Tina:
I also believe in the Ikette visual. I don't see it as cheap or vulgar. Nor do
I see myself as that. Sex is not cheap or vulgar. And I always loved the look
of long straight hair. Ike says he patterned me after Sheena of the jungle.
She was white, you know. But I still love the look and action of long hair
moving and the short skirts shimmying. I want action on that stage at all times.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UzGATX2ymg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1xsZ2iE3Zc


Tina:
My first experience with him was when Mick walked in the dressing room without knocking,
and he says, ‘I love how you girls dance,'. Often he would come into the dressing
room but we were always prepared because we never knew when he was coming in,
but that’s how Mick is.


https://i.imgur.com/0kCLZC4.jpg

i'm not saying jagger intended this, but it doesnt take too much imagination
to apply his infamous lyric, metaphorically at least, to Ike Turner

scarred old slaver's doing alright
hear him whip the women just around midnight


I've seen Ike and Tina clips all my life, but somehow never a whole show,
or even them opening 1969 Detroit, which i skipped to hang out and get
high with friends before the Stones took the stage.

Eagle Rock has posted an hour-long 1971 Ike and Tina show, which gives
a better perspective, puts their art in broader context, as far as the history
of music goes...

Viewed from a certain distance, Ike and Tina's Revue certainly shares more
than a few similarities with the approach of the current 10-piece touring
outfit known as the Rolling Stones


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M61sPCMVybE


Ike Turner began playing piano and guitar as a child and then formed the
Kings of Rhythm as a teenager. His first recording, "Rocket 88" is considered
a contender for the distinction of first rock and roll song.

During the 1950s, Turner also worked as a talent scout and producer for
Sun Records and Modern Records. He was instrumental in the early careers
of various blues musicians such as B.B. King, Howlin' Wolf, and Bobby "Blue" Bland.

In 1954, Turner relocated to East St. Louis where his Kings of Rhythm became one
of the most renowned acts in Greater St. Louis. He later formed the Ike & Tina
Turner Revue in 1960, which over the course of the decade became a soul/rock
crossover success.

Hailed as a "great innovator" of rock and roll by contemporaries such as
Little Richard and Johnny Otis, Turner was one of the first guitarists to
successfully transplant the intensity of the blues into more-commercial music.

“When I met her she was Anna Mae. I was the one who turned her into
Tina Turner. I had to tell her how to dress, how to walk and how to talk
on stage. I told her how to stand and how to look, the whole thing, man,
I mean from the wig down.”


https://i.imgur.com/YaIcMq7.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/kVlOYd9.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/emLTR3S.jpeg

I think it was actually Ike whipping the women in that period.  His "Beatle haircut" phase was his dumbest attempt at prolonging his relevance, which he lost completely when he lost Tina.

He was a two-and-a-half hit wonder, starting with Rocket 88, then two covers he got out of Tina's sweat appeal: Proud Mary and River Deep-Mountain High.  River Deep remains only half a hit, because it flopped in America, being unlistenable on portable radios and phonograms due to Spector's frenetic, hophead production.  (I was there, and heard it.)

All this puts Ike a step behind Isaac Hayes in influence.  If this seems cruel, well - sorry, Ike.  You bit that cruelty like it was a hot dog.

andrews27 wrote on Dec 1^st, 2021 at 12:13pm:

He was a two-and-a-half hit wonder, starting with Rocket 88, then two covers he got out of Tina's sweat appeal: Proud Mary and River Deep-Mountain High.

Got it. Thanks. That's helpful. I'll remember to evaluate pioneering black
musicians only by the amount of hits they had on white radio


Rev 20 Redlights wrote on Nov 26^th, 2021 at 4:52pm:

In a new interview with Spin, singer Claudia Lennear said audiences were “missing out on a great part of rock ’n’ roll history” via the absence of Brown Sugar. “When do we learn to understand history without getting upset?”

https://i.imgur.com/P0wpSkE.jpeg


https://i.imgur.com/61hVBQk.jpeg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0wPrN_Y_4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SI1EN6GCGc0

Got it. Thanks. That's helpful. I'll remember to evaluate pioneering black
musicians only by the amount of hits they had on white radio

Which was the audience market Ike was aiming for in the 1960s-1970s.  And in acquiescing to Tina working with Spector, which otherwise bristled him.  How'd he do on the Black charts in this period?  Did he care?  Who was the audience for a soul revue at that time?

https://i.imgur.com/ptp9p8K.jpeg


The Kings of Rhythm are an American rhythm and blues and soul group
formed in the late 1940s in Clarksdale, Mississippi and led by Ike Turner
through to his death in 2007.

1951: "Heartbroken and Worried" / "I'm Lonesome Baby" (Chess 1459) – Ike Turner And His Kings of Rhythm,
1952: "My Heart Belongs To You" / "Looking for My Baby"(RPM 362) – Bonnie and Ike Turner With Orchestra Acc.
1954: "Sinners Dream" / "Stay At Home" (Checker 792) – Eugene Fox
1954: "Wicked Little Baby" / "Why Don't You Believe In Me" (Modern 929) – Clayton Love
1954: "I Miss You So" / "Early Times" (Modern 930) – Dennis Binder & His Orchestra
1954: "The Snuggle"/ "Bourbon Street Jump" (Sun 204) – Raymond Hill
1954: "Baby Please" / "Gypsy Blues" (Flair 1037) – Matt Cockrell
1954: "The Drean (Part 1)" / "The Dream (Part 2) (RPM 420) – The Fox
1956: "As Long As I Have You" / "I Wanna Make Love To You" (RPM 446) – The Trojans
1956: "What Am I To Do" / "I'll Die In Love With You" (Federal 12267) – The Rockers
1956: "My Baby's Tops" / "Flaming Tops" (Federal 12284) – The Gardenias
1956: "I'm Tore Up" / "If I Never Had Known You" (Federal 12265) – Billy Gayles with Ike Turner's Rhythm Rockers
1956: "Do Right Baby" / "No Coming Back" (Federal 12282) – Billy Gayles With Ike Turner's Kings Of Rhythm
1957: "Much Later" / "The Mistreater" (Federal 12291) – Jackie Brenston With Ike Turner's Kings Of Rhythm
1957: "What Can It Be" / "Gonna Wait For My Chance" (Federal 12283) – Jackie Brenston With Ike Turner's Kings Of Rhythm
1957: "Do You Mean It" / "She Made My Blood Run Cold" (Federal 12297) – Ike Turner And His Orchestra
1958: "Boxtop" / "Chalypso Love Cry" (Tune Town 501) – Ike Turner, Carlson Oliver, Little Ann
1959: "Box Top" / "Walking Down The Aisle" (Cobra 5033) – Ike Turner's Kings of Rhythm
1959: "(I Know) You Don't Love Me" / "Down & Out" (Artistic 1504) – Ike Turner's Kings of Rhythm, vocal by Tommy Hodge
1961: "Crackerjack" / "Gettin' Late" (Crackerjack 4000) – Ike Turner's Kings of Rhythm
1962: "Prancing" / "It's Gonna Work Out Fine" (Sue 760) – Ike & Tina's Kings of Rhythm
1962: "Drifting" / "Love You Baby" (Kent 45x378) – Ike Turner And His Orchestra, vocal by Bobby "Blue" Bland
1963: "Lonely Soldier" / "The Bad Man" (Sony 111) – Bobby John
1963: "Remove My Doubts" / "Don't Believe 'Em" (Sony 113) – Stacy Johnson
1963: "What's That You've Got" / "Need My Help" (Sony 114) – Ernest Lane
1964: "Anything - To Make It With You" / "Walking Down The Isle" (Sonja 2007) – Vernon Guy
1964: "Getting Nasty" / "Nutting Up" (Sonja 5001) – Nasty Minds
1965: "The New Breed (Pt. 1)" / "The New Breed (Pt. 2)" (Sue 138) – Ike Turner & His Kings of Rhythm

https://i.imgur.com/zeiaWj8.jpeg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGtdQu4jnfs

https://i.imgur.com/xL8AuLp.jpeg


https://i.imgur.com/mifD26x.jpeg


https://i.imgur.com/Dpicp5Y.jpeg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mp4LBWTcFE


https://i.imgur.com/AUtTeAX.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gxb4UY_xn_8

Sotheby's:

    Jagger, Mick
    10 autograph letters signed to Marsha Hunt
 
A remarkable series of passionate, thoughtful and articulate love letters
written whilst filming Ned Kelly in Australia in 1969, when Jagger was at
the height of his creative powers and the potent symbol of rebellious youth
and social change, written to his lover, the image of “Black is Beautiful”
and the inspiration for “Brown Sugar”

“... I feel with you something so unsung there is no need to sing it...”

References to poetry, responses to the Australian landscape, and anxiety
about the future of his relationship with Hunt co-exist with the familiar
Jagger swagger of deliberately mis-spelt words, surreal flights of fancy,
and raw sexual desire.

This outpouring of words was inspired by a suitably extraordinary woman.
Marsha Hunt has been described as London’s Josephine Baker: strikingly
beautiful with a distinctive Afro hairstyle, educated, highly articulate, and
ambitious. Hunt’s family came from the Mississippi delta but she was born
in Philadelphia and attended the University of California, Berkeley, before
coming to London in 1966. She soon became part of the blues circuit (from
which the Stones had emerged earlier in the decade) where she sang
with Alexis Korner and a young Elton John, and lived for a while with
the influential bluesman John Mayall...



https://i.imgur.com/L5jGB7M.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/l6iUJjg.jpeg


https://i.imgur.com/sEQHtUa.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvsMvPZVQT8

Sotheby's (continued)

In the spring of 1969 Hunt was contacted by the Stones' office and invited
to appear in a photo shoot, posing in “tarty” clothes alongside the band
as publicity for their forthcoming single “Honky Tonk Women”: she refused
on the grounds that she did not wish to look like she had “just been had by
all the Rolling Stones”. Shortly afterwards, as Hunt recalled in her 1986 memoir
Real Life, Jagger appeared unannounced at her Bloomsbury flat:
"framed by the doorway as he stood grinning with a dark coat ... He drew
one hand out of his pocket and pointed it at me like a pistol ... 'Bang'."
The two embarked on a passionate, but initially very private, affair, at
a time when an inter-racial relationship was then charged to an extent
that is difficult to imagine today. Jagger had, of course, always been
enthralled by American black culture and the Rolling Stones had long
played a part in “soft” integration by introducing their largely white
audience to black music; here, again, he was at the crest of a wave,
and Jagger and Hunt’s relationship was a potent symbol of a new sexual
and racial order. In 1970 Hunt became the mother to Jagger's first child. 


https://i.imgur.com/rzKbDXR.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/JXwa0GE.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/dM4Na7y.jpeg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VagFIPJwTxA

Black boys are delicious
Chocolate flavored love
Licorice lips like candy
Keep my cocoa handy

White boys are so pretty
Skin as smooth as milk
White boys are so pretty
Hair like Chinese silk


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr-90GzKdHo

How much?
$301,000 Dec 2012.
Ever published?
Pretty sure not.
Who bought them?
Dunno. Probably Mick.

Marsha:
The passage of time has given these letters a place in our cultural history.
1969 saw the ebbing of a crucial, revolutionary era, highly influenced by such
artists as The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, James Brown and Bob Dylan.
Their inner thoughts should not be the property of only their families, but
the public at large, to reveal who these influential artists were - not as
commercial images, but their private selves.

There's nothing salacious in the letters. This is somebody reflecting what
is going on in his life at a particular time when, because of his age - he
was actually 25 when he went off to Australia - you're really looking at
somebody in their artistic prime, talking about filming, talking about music,
talking about the future, and they are reflective. There has been a growing
50-year history of this person as a writer and as an influence upon young
people. It would have been criminal for these letters not to become public.
One has to look at the fact that he has become historically important.

Legal note: unfortunately Sotheby's did not agree with Marsha, and very much
limited public access to the contents so as not to be sued by the copyright holder.


By way of background, Marsha Hunt began her rise to fame as a model...


https://i.imgur.com/bGmbupB.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/togoNeN.jpeg


https://i.imgur.com/LgPz82f.jpeg


...but she wouldn't hit it big until she started wearing her hair in what
at that time was called a "natural", getting the cover of british Vogue
with her famous nude shot (see previous post), a full five years before
american Vogue had its first black cover girl

(the term "afro" came a bit later)

Essence magazine credits two women with first popularizing the style.
Marsha Hunt and sweet black Angela Davis


https://i.imgur.com/ep3uNX0.jpg


more about both women when The Brown Sugar Chronicles continue...


however we will be entirely ignoring this incident:
https://i.imgur.com/TUswlrr.jpg

Rev 20 Redlights wrote on Nov 28^th, 2021 at 12:07pm:

Tina: I also believe in the Ikette visual. I always loved the look of long straight hair. Ike says he patterned me after Sheena of the jungle. And I still love the look and action of long hair moving and the short skirts shimmying.

https://i.imgur.com/J2Lq9js.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/bVDzqBH.jpg



Rev 20 Redlights wrote on Dec 1^st, 2021 at 7:41am:

Raven (Dec 1): Viewed from a certain distance, Ike and Tina's Revue certainly shares more than a few similarities with the approach of the current 10-piece touring outfit known as the Rolling Stones

Steve (Dec 6):
There are a couple of things with “Satisfaction.” I miss the Brian Jones acoustic
guitar part. I miss that when I’m playing it. Maybe one day, that’ll happen.
But currently it’s more of a kind of almost Revue approach, which is how
Otis Redding did “Satisfaction” with the MG’s. It’s brighter, faster tempo-wise,
so I give it more of an Al Jackson approach. The stomp beat is how I approach it
since we play it faster than the record. The record has this push and pull with
the acoustic guitar off the lead riff and the way Charlie plays the beat. When it’s
faster and there’s no acoustic guitar, it’s a different animal.


Ike and Tina Revue at the max 14 members
https://i.imgur.com/9jnzH1F.jpg


Mick and Keith Revue at the max 15 members
https://i.imgur.com/K53ff8R.jpg


1) its a crime we don't have a similar posed photo for every Stones line-up

2) don't worry, all you Angela Davis fans, that episode is still on its way,
when The Brown Sugar Chronicles continue...


https://i.imgur.com/ERsHMiN.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1VhBD0OVgs


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESjzB0m_60E


https://i.imgur.com/DuUuw7U.jpeg


Whoa! Just stumbled upon this, from earlier this year, featuring Carla Thomas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-R7hN6bZZ8

i


Rev 20 Redlights wrote on Dec 7^th, 2021 at 9:01am:

Whoa! Just stumbled upon this, from earlier this year, featuring Carla Thomas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-R7hN6bZZ8

i didnt remember that valerie was one of the openers for Stones hyde park


https://i.imgur.com/AQtfjfu.jpeg

Got a sweet black angel
Got a pin up girl
Got a sweet black angel
Up upon my wall


A selection of her many posters from that time period:


https://i.imgur.com/ePU4Mhb.jpeg


https://i.imgur.com/B8bJgKm.jpeg


https://i.imgur.com/d8ax5DR.jpeg


particularly popular, for some odd reason, were posters of Angela smoking.
I had the two posters to the right up upon my dorm room wall


https://i.imgur.com/9NI2grj.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HnDONDvJVE


jagger's key lines, and very funny ones...

She's a sweet black angel
Not a gun toting teacher
Not a Red loving schoolmarm

...because on the contrary that is exactly what she was.
She admitted buying the guns that were used to kill the judge,
and she was a proud orthodox Communist who loved the Soviet
Union and East Germany. She claimed there were ZERO political
prisoners in any of the Communist countries

Mick's words, as usual, drip with nuance and irony. At the same
time, he 1) appreciates the folk hero mythology that erupted
around her, 2) condemns the legally baseless murder charge
brought against her by the government, and 3) clearly distances
himself from the stupidity of her stalinesque politics.

in short, she was a perfect resistance symbol, but a terrible
resistance leader

Compare Mick's sardonic lyrics with the ludicrous fawning
nursery rhymes of Loko (Lennon-yOKO), in their tune "Angela",
released one month after Exile (its on youtube, but i'm
not gonna link to it, the music is even worse than the words)

Angela, you're still a people teacher
Angela, your word reaches far
Angela, you're one of the millions of
political prisoners in the world

They gave you sunshine
They gave you sea
They gave you everything but the jailhouse key
They gave you everything but equality

But Loko were hardly the only ones who went overboard with
their virtue signaling...

Neil Young and Marsha Hunt
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GN8784y0ep8

https://i.imgur.com/eTSZZQk.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/vX9CNCp.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/VP10FzN.jpg


...as we'll see next time when The Brown Sugar Chronicles continue

various bootlegs strung together with Otis Taylor's version
(warning: contains provocative images)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ydItXpD9tI


marsha hunt or angela davis or both?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ss2OMa6oYrE

The Brown Sugar Chronicles will return in 2022...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mGLWEqCGv4

Meanwhile, Marsha Hunt wishes you a Merry XXmas...

https://i.imgur.com/nSCgzZ6.jpeg

As do I of course...

https://i.imgur.com/ALDaV9g.jpeg

...because no matter what anybody says
I know deep down in my heart that
Y'all are Rock Stars !!!

Rev 20 Redlights wrote on Dec 13^th, 2021 at 5:11pm:

As do I of course...

:wow :smilestu

Thanks!!

Hey rolling stones, IF you do decide to tour this year, i know you won't be allowed
to play Brown Sugar yet, but how about y'all covering this one instead?

Seriously

Even if you have to change it to Run Brother Run

(obviously it would work best with billy preston, but i'm sure chuck and matt
could handle it)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omx_4h3_u78


https://www.rocksoff.org/headers2022/j2-iwm2022.jpg

Will they play Brown Sugar this go?