I'm probably a bigger fan of A Bigger Bang than most Stones fans are; for me, it's their best album of original material since Tattoo You and I rank it in the Top 10.

Other than maybe Black and Blue, I can't think of a more unfairly underrepresented Stones album. It's got some absolutely killer songs and lots of crunchy playing from Keith, including some of his better riffs of this century.

"Rough Justice," "Oh No Not You Again," "Dangerous Beauty," "She Saw Me Coming," "Look What the Cat Dragged In," "It Won't Take Long," and "Rain Fall Down" are great Stones rockers. I think "This Place is Empty" is an incredible Keith ballad. "Laugh, I Nearly Died" has one of the most unique musical atmospheres for any era or Stones songs. Remove four or five of the weaker tracks and you've got a pretty killer 11-12 song Stonea album.

I thought the ones they regularly performed all went over well live on the tour; even "Streets of Love" was elevated beyond the schmaltzy studio version. And yet aside from one lone "Streets of Love" in 2014, the album has been entirely discarded. They don't even play them in rehearsals. I don't get it; if "You Got Me Rocking" and "Out of Control" can still survive all these years, and they can bring back "Mixed Emotions," "The Worst," and even fucking "Anybody Seen My Baby" on at least one occasion in recent times, I don't see why at least "Rough Justice" can sub in for another turgid "YGMR" every so often.

Not sure if anyone is as passionate as me about this, and certainly it's easy to write it off as another symptom of the band's general aversion of anything post-1981 that isn't "Start Me Up," but I thought it was worth discussing.

Stoned In Staten Island wrote on Aug 9^th, 2020 at 9:26am:

I don't see why at least "Rough Justice" can sub in for another turgid "YGMR" every so often.

I had to look up "turgid":

swollen; distended; tumid. inflated, overblown, or pompous

I was hoping it meant POS. YGMR makes me cringe...so if you add BLOATED and UNWELCOME to the definition, its a great word to use here.

I pretty much disagree with most of the above...and think Bridges to be a much more superior album...but hey, I also love Undercover...

I like it, but largely for sentimental reasons.

I arrived home in the French Quarter, New Orleans on the first day evacuees from Katrina were allowed home. I had my copy mailed to me in Atlanta, but for lack of a CD player in my car I had to wait to get home to hear the new album.

Very few were back in the neighborhood, so I opened the windows and cranked up the volume. It didn't take long to draw a small crowd, including several members of the military.

That's a day I'll never forget.

nope.

Edith Grove wrote on Aug 9^th, 2020 at 4:35pm:

I like it, but largely for sentimental reasons. I arrived home in the French Quarter, New Orleans on the first day evacuees from Katrina were allowed home. I had my copy mailed to me in Atlanta, but for lack of a CD player in my car I had to wait to get home to hear the new album. Very few were back in the neighborhood, so I opened the windows and cranked up the volume. It didn't take long to draw a small crowd, including several members of the military. That's a day I'll never forget.

:blankfriggingstare1

For those who want to re.read the very first reviews of some songs check this thread out

I was in the presentation of the album, I taped it and posted some samples here on Rocks Off

THREAD OF THE VERY FIRST TIME WE LISTENED ABB, 7 pages of the premiere: http://www.rocksoff.org/Archives/08-24-2005/214276-1.html

And now... check the reactions 10 years after here: http://rocksoff.org/cgi-bin/messageboard/YaBB.pl?num=1441584697

It's an ok album like this imo:

"Rough Justice"
"Let Me Down Slow"
"It Won't Take Long"
"Back of My Hand"
"Oh No, Not You Again"
"Dangerous Beauty"
"Laugh, I Nearly Died"
"Driving Too Fast"      

Streets of love is a terrible terrible song and we shall never speak of it again!

as someone mentioned here (can't remeber who?) infamy sounds like the music of a video game!

Egon wrote on Aug 12^th, 2020 at 8:37am:

Streets of love is a terrible terrible song and we shall never speak of it again!

I don't think I have referred to that by its original title since it came out. It will forever be Streets of Shite.

I'm in love with Street of Love, it's beautiful

:aimama

Stoned In Staten Island wrote on Aug 9^th, 2020 at 9:26am:

I'm probably a bigger fan of A Bigger Bang than most Stones fans are; for me, it's their best album of original material since Tattoo You and I rank it in the Top 10. Other than maybe Black and Blue, I can't think of a more unfairly underrepresented Stones album. It's got some absolutely killer songs and lots of crunchy playing from Keith, including some of his better riffs of this century. "Rough Justice," "Oh No Not You Again," "Dangerous Beauty," "She Saw Me Coming," "Look What the Cat Dragged In," "It Won't Take Long," and "Rain Fall Down" are great Stones rockers. I think "This Place is Empty" is an incredible Keith ballad. "Laugh, I Nearly Died" has one of the most unique musical atmospheres for any era or Stones songs. Remove four or five of the weaker tracks and you've got a pretty killer 11-12 song Stonea album. I thought the ones they regularly performed all went over well live on the tour; even "Streets of Love" was elevated beyond the schmaltzy studio version. And yet aside from one lone "Streets of Love" in 2014, the album has been entirely discarded. They don't even play them in rehearsals. I don't get it; if "You Got Me Rocking" and "Out of Control" can still survive all these years, and they can bring back "Mixed Emotions," "The Worst," and even fucking "Anybody Seen My Baby" on at least one occasion in recent times, I don't see why at least "Rough Justice" can sub in for another turgid "YGMR" every so often. Not sure if anyone is as passionate as me about this, and certainly it's easy to write it off as another symptom of the band's general aversion of anything post-1981 that isn't "Start Me Up," but I thought it was worth discussing.

ONNYA and Sweet Neocon contain probably the most inane lyrics Jagger has ever written. Something you'd expect from a 12 year old.

Most of the record is pretty solid. I'm not sure what you mean by it being 'under represented' or 'deserving a better fate' - it got a lot of critical acclaim when it came out. With hindsight, maybe a bit more than it deserved. It should have sold better, considering they performed one of the songs at the Super Bowl and did a two year tour to follow it.  Cold reality is that their target audience demographic largely stopped listening to new music three decades earlier. An album being promoted with a tour and then being largely forgotten about the next time they go on the road is nothing new. Standard practice for the last 30 years. 


It has too much filler to be a classic Stones album and Keith doesnt really contribute much composition wise but theres about 10-12 good to very good songs on it.

And 'Dangerous Beauty' is a fucking monster of a track. Love it.

I could go on and on, song by song, but my final take is that ABB is the most un-Rolling Stones-like Stones album, and that includes superior records in the category like Satanic Majesties and B2B (with the latter having much better late-period songs than ABB).

The only song that sticks with me from ABB is This Place is Empty.  Really, a midsection composed of Laugh, I Nearly Died and Sweet Neocon (a song that tries to bring out the Brown Sugar in Condoleeza Rice) is dragging the formula into Jagger-solo-record solipsism.

After playing it constantly and trying to get into it, I was stunned into submission to my initial bad feelings when people who came to visit asked me to take it off during the third song.  That's a far different reaction than when I played Had It With You while DJing at an outdoor party, and five young, hacky-sack type kids ran up excitedly to ask, "What Stones album is this on?"

ABB is an album that sinks in its efforts to swim above formula.  All I hear is four guys trying to reinvent the Rock 'n' Roll wheel, when the business at hand was to keep rolling with the wheel.

I suspect that among the reasons we've had no new album in 15 years is that they're trying not to make that album again.

This is why I keep recommending a classic Stones record: 10-12 songs, some genius covers, the rest pop originals or originals in black music traditions (blues-soul-R & B-gospel-acoustic blues).  They're the Stones, they don't need to kowtow to the 15-song CD/streaming standard, if 10-12 great songs will do.

Voodoo Chile in Wonderland wrote on Aug 9^th, 2020 at 5:45pm:

Edith Grove wrote on Aug 9th, 2020 at 4:35pm: I like it, but largely for sentimental reasons. I arrived home in the French Quarter, New Orleans on the first day evacuees from Katrina were allowed home. I had my copy mailed to me in Atlanta, but for lack of a CD player in my car I had to wait to get home to hear the new album. Very few were back in the neighborhood, so I opened the windows and cranked up the volume. It didn't take long to draw a small crowd, including several members of the military. That's a day I'll never forget. :blankfriggingstare1

That's right, Voodoo !

I directed and produced my own Stones show, and without any warhorses.

I just listened to it last week. It holds up. Probably better than it's initial reaction. I like it.....But then again. I like Dirty Work. :keithpunky

I like Dirty Work for all the reasons I don't like ABB.

Dirty Work, minus Winning Ugly and Back to Zero, plus all the bootlegged outtakes, is some great Stones.

Sweet Neocon is about the worst song, ever, by anyone. Not even that I disagree with the sentiment, but if you feel that strongly about it, at least write a decent song okay.

Other than that, a surprisingly solid 10 song album? What ten? I don't remember!

ijwthstd wrote on Oct 7^th, 2020 at 7:45pm:

Sweet Neocon is about the worst song, ever, by anyone. Not even that I disagree with the sentiment, but if you feel that strongly about it, at least write a decent song okay. Other than that, a surprisingly solid 10 song album? What ten? I don't remember!

Laugh, I Nearly Died, is a close contender - It's the kind of self-indulgent bathos that belongs on a third-rate Jagger solo like Goddess In the Doorway.  The chant section is interesting, but would have been brought off better by female back-up singers. (And has anybody noticed how few of those there are on Stones songs, and how subdued in the mix they end up?)

ABB suffers from CD-age programming: the need to put 15-plus songs on a record to justify CD playing length, and take the sting out of high CD prices.  These guys - and their record companies - were always great at delivering a focused 10- to 12-song LP, and they didn't need to alter that formula, as their fan base would purchase a CD of LP length.  They were able to pull off the long form with success on Voodoo Lounge and Bridges to Babylon, but when the songwriting grew strained in the ABB period, the record failed.  (And this from the band that splattered 18 turds-on-the-run across the two LPs of Exile on Main St., and made a genius record that seems immortal.)  The 12-song, 45-minute Blue and Lonesome proved the wisdom of sticking closer to the LP-length formula, as did Steel Wheels.

The proof of the concept is in your statement that there's a solid 10-song album within ABB, but you can't remember what songs those might be.  I can't, either, because there's too much forgettable stuff on the platter. 

Maybe the RO membership should try compiling versions of a shorter ABB (10 songs or 12) on this thread.

Have to be cut: Laugh, I Nearly Died; Sweet Neocon; Back of My Hand
Have to be kept: Rough Justice; Rain Fall Down; Streets of Love

So what are the other 7 to 9 keepers?

And how good a record do we end up with?  I'd set Steel Wheels as a comparison baseline.
 

ijwthstd wrote on Oct 7^th, 2020 at 7:45pm:

Sweet Neocon is about the worst song, ever, by anyone. Not even that I disagree with the sentiment, but if you feel that strongly about it, at least write a decent song okay. Other than that, a surprisingly solid 10 song album? What ten? I don't remember!

This.  Nothing wrong with topical lyrics.  Just don't reduce the impact by making them cringeworthy. At least the cynicism in 'Dangerous Beauty' was amusing.

andrews27 wrote on Oct 8^th, 2020 at 11:12am:

Maybe the RO membership should try compiling versions of a shorter ABB (10 songs or 12) on this thread. Have to be cut: Laugh, I Nearly Died; Sweet Neocon; Back of My Hand Have to be kept: Rough Justice; Rain Fall Down; Streets of Love So what are the other 7 to 9 keepers? And how good a record do we end up with?  I'd set Steel Wheels as a comparison baseline.

Let Me Down Slow
It Wont Take Long
Back Of My Hand
Rain Fall Down
She Saw Me Coming
Biggest Mistake

Dangerous Beauty
Under The Radar
Look What The Cat Dragged In
Driving Too Fast
This Place Is Empty
Laugh I Nearly Died

10-song album in that order. I'd add the two songs in italics if you're making it a 12-song record.



andrews27 wrote on Oct 8^th, 2020 at 11:12am:

ABB suffers from CD-age programming: the need to put 15-plus songs on a record to justify CD playing length, and take the sting out of high CD prices.  These guys - and their record companies - were always great at delivering a focused 10- to 12-song LP, and they didn't need to alter that formula, as their fan base would purchase a CD of LP length.  They were able to pull off the long form with success on Voodoo Lounge and Bridges to Babylon, but when the songwriting grew strained in the ABB period, the record failed.  (And this from band that splattered 18 turds-on-the-run across the two LPs of Exile on Main St., and made a genius record that seems immortal.)  The 12-song, 45-minute Blue and Lonesome proved the wisdom of sticking closer to the LP-length formula, as did Steel Wheels.

The balance of ABB (and Voodoo Lounge before it) also suffer from the compulsion to add extra songs because it was their first new album in many years. Its understandable and honourable in a way but in the end some of those songs were b-side material.  (BTB didnt have the same problem IMO - at 13 songs, it didnt feel over-long)

By this yardstick, the next album will probably have about 40 songs on it at this rate

No fair adding Under the Radar - you have to work with what's on the 16-song CD release.

To me, Back of My Hand is B-side material, and it stiffed when it appeared in the live shows.  I'd rate Infamy higher, though I don't like it that much more.

I keep Streets of Love/Rough Justice because it was a single release, and as such immovable history, however diminished.

I'll have to listen to the album (for the first time since c. 2007) to compile my alternate version.

1 Rough Justice
2 Let Me Down Slow
3 It Won't Take Long
4 Rain Fall Down
5 Streets of Love
6 Back of My Hand
7 Biggest Mistake
8 This Place Is Empty
9 Dangerous Beauty
10 Laugh, I Nearly Died

Perks loves it, except Neocon.. Under the Radar was a much better song. It was just Mick lookin for press attention.

Can I post this link here?

https://www.guitars101.com/forums/f145/rolling-stones-ocean-way-recording-studios-los-angeles%3B-june-6-2005-a-738913.html

Of course you can

It was actually me who circulated these recordings to begin with, via the torrent tracker that we had on this site a few years ago.  I think it was probably around 2006-07.

I found them on soulseek when I noticed someone had a folder called 'Bigger Bang Alternate Mixes' on his account.

I downloaded them and messaged him to ask how he got them because at that point they had never circulated.

He told me he just assumed they were 'out there' (he wasnt a Stones collector). He'd been working at a storage facility in New York (I later established that it was Sterling Sound Studios) and when accessing a shared folder noticed the folder so he made a copy.



Unfortunately soon afterwards he had a hard drive crash so the lossless files that he had downloaded were lost. He did however make a back up file as mp3's. So, all copies that are in circulation are lossy.

The versions on here are the same takes that are on the album. In some cases, I couldnt detect any real difference at all. Several tracks, however, are noticeably longer as they've been edited for release. For example. 'Biggest Mistake' as listed here is 4:55. On the album, its 4:05. 'Dangerous Beauty' and 'Drivin' Too Fast' are both about half a minute longer.

Thanks for the track info.

Given the rules above, I'd edit it like this:

1. Rough Justice
2. Let Me Down Slow
3. This Place Is Empty
4. Rain Fall Down
5. It Won't Take Long
6. She Saw Me Coming
7. Oh No, Not You Again
8. Biggest Mistake
9. Dangerous Beauty
10. Look What The Cat Dragged In
11. Street Of Love
12. Infamy

That's a pretty solid record.

Don't listen to my earlier advice - use Under the Radar in the line-up.  I had only heard it once before, but now I can't live without it.  It's the great missing piece that would have made ABB more Stones-like.

I'll put up my shorter ABB line-up tomorrow, with detailed and annoying notes.

Yes. I love it!