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GENERAL >> MAIN BOARD >> Mick Jagger Furious with Prince Rupert http://rocksoff.org/cgi-bin/messageboard/YaBB.pl?num=1360503185 Message started by LanternHigh on Feb 10th, 2013 at 7:33am |
Title: Mick Jagger Furious with Prince Rupert Post by LanternHigh on Feb 10th, 2013 at 7:33am
http://shidoobeewithstonesdoug.yuku.com/topic/31570/master/1/#.UReeDvI6Chp
The Prince has write a book about the Stones' financial issues in public. Mick is more than angry with prince Rupert, while he usually had been silence when others had written about him. It's a good read. |
Title: Re: Mick Jagger Furious with Prince Rupert Post by Gazza on Feb 10th, 2013 at 10:09am
Looks quite an interesting book. Here's the Daily Mail piece :
Jagger fury as Bavarian Prince who worked as band's financial adviser for 40 years reveals truth about Rolling Stones' millions Prince Rupert Loewenstein was the Stones' financial adviser from 1968-2007 German aristocrat saw the penniless rockers laugh all the way to the bank Prince's memoirs unveils how band used to get 'bags stuffed with cash' Book has Mick Jagger fuming saying the Prince lacks 'good manners' By IAN GALLAGHER PUBLISHED: 22:15, 9 February 2013 | UPDATED: 22:18, 9 February 2013 Sir Mick Jagger has withstood any number of embarrassing tell-all revelations over the years, which he usually greets with an insouciant silence. So it is surprising that a new book about the Rolling Stones has incurred his anger – especially since it comes not from a gold-digging floozy, but an octogenarian Bavarian aristocrat. The author is Prince Rupert Loewenstein, who for nearly 40 years was the band’s most trusted – if unlikely – adviser. Rock n' roll banker: Prince Rupert Loewenstein, pictured in 1991 with Keith Richards, has written a book about his years as the Stones' financial manager which has Mick Jagger fuming And Sir Mick is riled because the new memoirs reveal some of the financial arrangements that made the band so wealthy. ‘Call me old fashioned, but I don’t think your ex-bank manager should be discussing your financial dealings and personal information in public,’ Sir Mick told The Mail on Sunday yesterday. ‘It just goes to show that well brought-up people don’t always display good manners.’ The withering putdown has dismayed Prince Rupert, once dubbed the human calculator, who turned the near-bankrupt Stones into a billion-pound machine before parting company, apparently on good terms, in 2007. Some say his unlikely alliance with Jagger shaped the band just as much as the singer’s partnership with Keith Richards. Without his guiding hand, it is believed the Stones may have folded years ago. Fuming: Mick Jagger hits back at Prince Rupert's book saying it shows 'bad manners' and he should not have made the band's financial issues public In his memoir, A Prince Among Stones, Loewenstein reveals how the band used to receive paper bags stuffed with cash at their gigs; how they became tax exiles in France, and how they became embroiled in a long legal battle with their ex-manager. But although it is studded with anecdotal gems, the waspish book is far removed from the usual warts-and-all, sex, drugs and rock and roll biographies: A Prince Among Stones AN EXTRACT FROM THE BOOK BY PRINCE RUPERT LOEWENSTEIN Towards the end of 1968, I received a telephone call from the art dealer Christopher Gibbs. ‘Could you look after the financial side of these friends of mine, Mick Jagger and The Rolling Stones?’ I said, politely: ‘Let me call you back tomorrow morning,’ not having heard of The Rolling Stones in any connection with anything that I might want to do. I asked my wife Josephine to tell me about them. She reminded me of the famous Times editorial that had been written the year before by William Rees-Mogg following Mick and Keith’s conviction for drugs possession, the leader article headlined ‘Who Breaks A Butterfly On A Wheel?’. I did remember the piece. I, of course, had been on the side of the wheel. Former friends: Prince Rupert and Mick Jagger, pictured together at The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame at The Waldorf Astoria, New York in 1989, parted on good terms, something which seems to have changed On the surface the Stones and I might have been seen as unlikely associates. My father was Prince Leopold zu Loewenstein-Wertheim-Freudenberg, from a family that can trace itself back to Luitpold Markgrave of Carinthia and later Duke of Bavaria (who died repelling the Huns in 907). My family is a branch of the Bavarian royal house. My mother, Countess Bianca Treuberg, was also Bavarian, although she had once owned one-sixth of the Brazilian crown jewels, because one of her great-grandmothers was a daughter of Emperor Dom Pedro I of Brazil. At that time, I was the managing director of the merchant bank Leopold Joseph. Christopher knew Mick Jagger, and Mick had asked him to find somebody to advise The Rolling Stones on their financial situation, which was not good. It had become clear to Mick that something was wrong. He knew the group was doing well and had a good contract with Decca. Their singles and albums were selling and they were playing to enthusiastic crowds. He couldn’t understand why they weren’t seeing a penny. Christopher could find no one interested in looking at the finances of what virtually everyone in the City viewed as degenerate, long-haired, and, worst of all, unprofitable layabouts. Hall of fame: Prince Rupert Lowenstein with Jerry Hall at a charity event in 2006 It turned out that I had met Mick a short time before at the banker Peter Denman’s house in Chelsea. Cara, his wife, used to throw the new style of informal parties. It was on one of the occasions that we walked into the room and found everybody stoned. And one of the people whom I had tripped over was Mick. The second time I met Mick, in the autumn of 1968, was via a far more conventional arrangement, planned and by invitation, at the house he had bought on Chelsea Embankment, where he was living with Marianne Faithfull. I did not know quite what to expect when I headed to Cheyne Walk. I sat waiting in Mick’s drawing room, reading a newspaper. Despite the upwardly mobile address, the decor of the house was extremely sparse, the rooms quite bare. Soundlessly, Mick slipped into the room, wearing a green tweed suit. We talked for an hour or so. His manner was careful. The essence of what he told me was: ‘I have no money. None of us has any money.’ That explained the paucity of furniture. At the end of our conversation it was clear to me that Mick and I had clicked on a personal level. I certainly felt that Mick was a sensible, honest person. And I was equally certain that I represented a chance for him to find a way out of a difficult situation. I was intrigued. So far as the Stones’ music was concerned, however, I was not in tune with them, far from it. Rock and pop music was not something in which I was interested. I had heard some of The Beatles’ music. Their music was sufficiently harmonic to be acceptable to people such as me. I only really took against rock ’n’ roll when I heard the Stones. But the offer to look at the Stones’ financial situation had come at a very good time for me both professionally and psychologically. I was becoming rather bored with my work at Leopold Joseph. Avoidance: It was Prince Rupert who urged the Rolling Stones to abandon Britain for the South of France in 1970s in order to avoid paying income and surtax After the first two or three business meetings with Mick, I realised there was something exceptional in his make-up, that his personality was able to convert his trade as itinerant performer into something far more intriguing. With time, I even became less concerned, although never totally, about the aspects of his behaviour that came under the most criticism: the chucking of invitations and the late arrival at dinners and parties, even though I found it very difficult. A year or so after Mick and I met, Josephine and I had been invited to spend Christmas at Warwick Castle by Lord and Lady Brooke, great friends of ours. We suggested they might ask Mick and Marianne to stay for two or three nights and they agreed. I wanted to see how Mick behaved. I knew that he was intrigued and at the same time impressed by the aristocracy. The plan did not work out very well since Marianne stayed in bed 90 per cent of the time; Mick tried to make the best out of the tricky situation this created. The couple had, in any case, got off on the wrong foot by arriving extremely late in an old white Bentley flying the Green Flag of the Prophet. Sarah, Lady Brooke, had left in a huff having poured water into Marianne’s bed, which she had also turned into an ‘apple pie’. The reason she gave was that she thought Mick and Marianne would serve as a bad influence on her children. Given our burgeoning friendship, it was perfectly logical that Mick and Marianne would be invited to the White Ball that Josephine and I held in July 1969. There was a charming review of the ball by Vogue. ‘In bright Kensington moonlight, about 450 guests laughing and dancing joined the revels. Dancing continued until dawn; every room was decorated with white vinyl cushions; nearly all the guests wore white.’ That ‘nearly all’ was a reference to Marianne turning up in black. Quote:
Various guests caught the reporter’s eye: Jacqueline de Ribes ‘in her fringed Nina Ricci’, the Maharajah of Jaipur, Victoria Ormsby-Gore ‘looking like Alice in Wonderland’ and Peter Sellers in his long black wig. The very next day I was in Hyde Park for the Stones’ outdoor concert, where Mick read extracts from Shelley’s Adonaïs in memory of Brian Jones, the Stones’ guitarist whose body had been found early in the morning of the day of the White Ball. The effect was almost like the Nuremberg Rallies. For the first time I was made aware of the extraordinary power of the band’s music and, in particular, of Mick’s charisma. I was struck by the way he projected himself onto an audience without any of the disciplines usually required for a singing career. I realised that what Mick had was ‘star quality’. But, essentially he and the band were handcuffed on the one side by their contract with Allen Klein – a highly intelligent, if unconventional New York accountant, who specialised in giving advice to rock musicians – and on the other to Decca Records. My job was going to be to allow them to escape, Houdini-like, from both. I also realised that if a way could be found to get past the dodgy business practices that surrounded touring, there was a lot of money to be made. Personal details: The Prince speaks of the messy divorce proceedings between Mick and Bianca Jagger, pictured on their wedding day in 1971 After reviewing a few of the basic documents, I realised why the Stones would not have received the money. It would have gone to Klein and therefore they would have depended on what he gave them, as opposed to what the record company or the publishing company did. They were completely in his hands. What had also become apparent to me was that the band would have to abandon their UK residence. If they did not do this, they could be paying between 83 and 98 per cent of their profits in British income tax and surtax. I selected the South of France as a suitable location for them. Quote:
When I needed to see the group, I saw them at Nellcôte, the French house Keith was renting, where the sessions for the new album were rumbling on. That new album became Exile On Main Street, which may be one of the few top-selling albums, if not the only one, to contain a reference to tax planning in the title. By 1972, I had managed to reach a satisfactory contract with Allen Klein, which meant The Rolling Stones were now free to record for a company of their choice. (Although litigation with Klein continued for the next 18 years.) Touring, at the time, was a deeply corrupt business. Unaccounted-for cash delivered in a paper bag to the band and their management was the norm. Bands were only too delighted to receive parcels of money, but failed to realise they were participating in a huge tax fraud. Slowly but surely we were able to alter how tours operated, but even on the tour that took place in 1978 at the time of Some Girls, somebody, an accountant or one of the tour personnel, asked me: ‘What do we do with the $50,000 in this paper bag?’ I replied: ‘You give it straight to the auditors.’ I summoned the Stones and told them: ‘A tax fraud in the United States could really halt your career, so I am afraid the paper bag of dollar bills will have to go back into your taxable income.’ Scalping tickets – the reselling of concert tickets – was another area of great concern. Everyone I spoke to about it said: ‘There’s nothing you can do about that. That’s the promoter’s business. Do you want the Stones’ children to be kidnapped? You should be aware that you are dealing with difficult and potentially dangerous people.’ Scalping was endemic, all-pervasive. I had to come to terms with the fact that there was an irreducible core of approximately ten per cent that would never come our way, and that we should concentrate on securing and accounting for the remaining 90 per cent. I had to learn to accept some of the realities of the music business. I once described my role with the band as ‘a combination of bank manager, psychiatrist and nanny’. Snappy comments: The Prince calls Keith Richards the 'most intelligent mind' of the group and says Jagger 'has no real career' unless performing alongside Keith All the time I worked with the Stones I never changed my habits, my clothes or my attitudes. I was never tempted by the rock ’n’ roll lifestyle. Although I enjoyed a good vintage wine, I was never a heavy drinker, nor a drug-taker. I always aimed to maintain a strict discipline backstage, for security reasons, and tried to see that the band and the entourage did not get drunk or disorderly. To many outsiders it must seem extraordinary that I was never a fan of the Stones’ music, or indeed of rock ’n’ roll in general. Yet I feel that precisely because I was not a fan, desperate to hang out in the studio and share in the secret alchemy of their creative processes (something I never did since I couldn’t take the noise levels), I was able to view the band and what they produced calmly, dispassionately, maybe even clinically – though never without affection. Many friends were proud and happy recipients of gratis CDs; I never played a Stones track by choice. I did find some Rolling Stones songs moving. I enjoyed Paint It Black, for example. But by and large it was rather like the circus. When one stops being a child, the circus becomes a bit of a bore. Quote:
In 2006, I had a major haemorrhage. Keith also had a medical trauma that year. He went to an expensive holiday resort in Fiji where he foolishly attempted to climb a tree. Although, from my perspective, Keith was still comparatively young, he fell. A blood clot formed between his skull and brain, which had to be operated on. He needed a good month of monitoring and convalescence. The passing of the years was soon uppermost in my mind. Drummer Charlie Watts had been diagnosed with cancer of the throat. Mick lost his voice periodically. I could not see The Rolling Stones being able to manage more than one or two more tours of the magnitude of their previous global circumnavigations, which lasted a long time and used up a huge amount of energy. I realised that, after more than 35 years, things might nearly be over between me and The Rolling Stones. More than a decade earlier, my aunt Helga, then in her late 80s, had rung me saying: ‘I hear The Rolling Stones will be playing in Cologne next week. Since they have made money for the family I feel that I should hear them before I die.’ I got her the tickets and after the concert she was interviewed on German television and asked whether they had been too loud for her, to which she answered: ‘No, I am deaf.’ When she was asked what she thought of them, she said: ‘Psychologically most interesting.’ I concurred, then as now, with her assessment. I enjoyed around four decades of interest, not only psychological, thanks to The Rolling Stones. Our Father’s house has many mansions – my life had certainly been enriched. © Prince Rupert Loewenstein 2013. A Prince Among Stones by Prince Rupert Loewenstein is published by Bloomsbury, priced £20. To order your copy at the special price of £16.99 with free p&p, call the Mail Book Shop on 0844 472 4157 or visit mailbookshop.co.uk Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2276087/Rupert-Loewenstein-Mick-Jagger-fury-Bavarian-Prince-worked-bands-financial-adviser-40-years-reveals-truth-Rolling-Stones-millions.html#ixzz2KVq3NQqi Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook |
Title: Re: Mick Jagger Furious with Prince Rupert Post by sweetcharmedlife on Feb 10th, 2013 at 11:06am
Interesting read. If Mick is pissed at the book,I'm surprised they didn't have some non-disclosure agreement with the Prince. You think this might spur Mick to finally write a book? Everybody else has. He might as well tell his story. :blankfriggingstare1
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Title: Re: Mick Jagger Furious with Prince Rupert Post by Steel Wheels on Feb 10th, 2013 at 12:35pm
Great title for an article, but Mick's direct quotes don't = furious.
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Title: Re: Mick Jagger Furious with Prince Rupert Post by nankerphelge on Feb 10th, 2013 at 1:31pm
"I always aimed to maintain a strict discipline backstage, for security reasons, and tried to see that the band and the entourage did not get drunk or disorderly."
Right. Like the sheep in the shower in '81..... |
Title: Re: Mick Jagger Furious with Prince Rupert Post by lavendar on Feb 10th, 2013 at 1:41pm
Where is Bavaria? :-?
Memoirs of a Prince |
Title: Re: Mick Jagger Furious with Prince Rupert Post by Pdog on Feb 10th, 2013 at 3:37pm lavendar wrote on Feb 10th, 2013 at 1:41pm:
Germany… |
Title: Re: Mick Jagger Furious with Prince Rupert Post by Gazza on Feb 10th, 2013 at 3:45pm lavendar wrote on Feb 10th, 2013 at 1:41pm:
Its a state of Germany. Munich is the main city. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bavaria |
Title: Re: Mick Jagger Furious with Prince Rupert Post by Gazza on Feb 10th, 2013 at 3:49pm sweetcharmedlife wrote on Feb 10th, 2013 at 11:06am:
He hasn't been employed by the band since the Bigger Bang tour, having retired at the end of it. Maybe if he had a non-disclosure agreement, there was an expiry date? I doubt it's a massive eye opener or that it's too indiscreet. I also doubt Mick's as outraged as the Daily Mail headline suggests (as Steel Wheels said above, the quote attributed to Mick hardly comes across as dramatic as 'furious') It looks to be a good read, though. I doubt Mick will ever write an autobiography - and if he did, his guarded nature would result in it being hugely anti-climactic. |
Title: Re: Mick Jagger Furious with Prince Rupert Post by The Wick on Feb 10th, 2013 at 4:10pm
I actually think he is furious because he rarely comments directly on these things but he has in this case and he wants to really insult the guy. The Stones are not exactly models of how to treat people but this is a very cheap thing he has done with this book. Yes he made them enormous money but it worked vice versa as well and he is being tarty. I just wonder if there was a bad break between the two camps and this is pay back.
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Title: Re: Mick Jagger Furious with Prince Rupert Post by uncleson on Feb 10th, 2013 at 4:38pm
Yeah, writing that book wa kind of nasty. Old Baron Von Whatever held a fiduciary position and should keep that information to himself.
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Title: Re: Mick Jagger Furious with Prince Rupert Post by Heart Of Stone on Feb 10th, 2013 at 4:44pm
Great, great read, I got to look into this book, thanks for pointing to us Lantern.
Mick is probably upset too over the remark Keith is the most intelligent. |
Title: Re: Mick Jagger Furious with Prince Rupert Post by Edith Grove on Feb 10th, 2013 at 5:38pm
The way Mick is about money, I'd expect him to furious about this. :wtf2
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Title: Re: Mick Jagger Furious with Prince Rupert Post by Paranoid Android on Feb 10th, 2013 at 6:01pm
Nice article... On the front end, and I agree with Jagger.
This is a very crass move on the Prince's part. Like the Mafia accountant showing the real books to the feds...it should not be done. I also find it wierd that an entire book can come out of all of this...a series of articles? Sure. A tell all interview on ( Insert talk show name here)...why not? A book? I don't see it. Could Jagger feel that this will make fans/ticket buyers resent the band and not purchase their $800.00 tickets? |
Title: Re: Mick Jagger Furious with Prince Rupert Post by AngieBlue on Feb 10th, 2013 at 9:55pm
Interesting read and I'll check the book out when it's cheap on the Nook.
I'm not surprised by Mick's reaction. He's very close mouthed about financial matters and the details of his personal life. The closer the boys get to the end of their career the more books like this are going to be published. |
Title: Re: Mick Jagger Furious with Prince Rupert Post by MrPleasant on Feb 11th, 2013 at 1:42am
So Mick has a small penis, or doesn't he?
(I wonder if Keith's bio will edit that part out) (I also wonder why I seem to care less) |
Title: Re: Mick Jagger Furious with Prince Rupert Post by sweetcharmedlife on Feb 11th, 2013 at 10:57am Paranoid Android wrote on Feb 10th, 2013 at 6:01pm:
If they don't resent the very concept of $800.00 tickets. Then I don't think a tell all book by their money man will matter very much. |
Title: Re: Mick Jagger Furious with Prince Rupert Post by gimmekeef on Feb 11th, 2013 at 11:09am
Gee like this fake prince didnt make enough dough off the band he writes a book....yawwwwwwwn that no one will buy
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Title: Re: Mick Jagger Furious with Prince Rupert Post by Joey on Feb 11th, 2013 at 1:45pm
" How right Uncle Werner was about Mick and Keith’s trouble. His view was that a dispute like theirs – a form of divorce – is enormously complicated by being between two men each fighting to prove his male sexual dominance. In a way, Keith is coming out as the winner on a human level – Mick on a professional one. Alas! Keith is right and that is the problem. Mick has no real career aside from his vast talent as a rock performer with Keith.
There was one embarrassing time when Mick wanted to have extra remuneration on everything because, in his view, he was the quasi-manager. I had a call from Keith a couple of hours later. He said: ‘Rupert, do you think Mick’s interventions in the things that you do make us money or lose us money?’ I reassured him: ‘I know what you mean – it won’t happen.’ But that proved to me that Keith knew what it was about, and could deal with issues rationally. " Stones Is Stones Baby ..................... Bigger than ALL of us !!!!!!!!!! In life there are three constants : 1. ) Death 2. ) Taxes 3. ) Mick & Keef |
Title: Re: Mick Jagger Furious with Prince Rupert Post by Bitch on Feb 12th, 2013 at 6:36am
Well I never trust a man in a bow-tie. BUT he did get the band's financial matters straightened out so he gets credit for that. But now he puts these personal details out in public, which is NOT something a gentleman does. I can see why MICK feels betrayed. Also if he sides with KEEF its an insult to MICK who considers himself the brains behind the operation. No mention of KEEF being upset, in fact I bet he's gloating! More MICK vs KEEF with KEEF coming out on top. Yes, its safe to say MICK would be furious over this. MICK likes to be the smartest, and the most important band member! And we all know he is, right? Wrong! As much as I love MICK, as time goes on I realize KEEF is smarter than he lets on and he puts on an act to live up to his reputation. Interesting!
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Title: Re: Mick Jagger Furious with Prince Rupert Post by The Wick on Feb 12th, 2013 at 11:33am
I love Keith but this looks like the old Prince trying to get back at Mick for dropping him. It just looks like Mick thought he was no longer needed or for whatever reason, they parted ways and he's upset now.
Keith has never tried to make himself look thick, if anything it's the absolute opposite. He just likes to play the bohemian raspy old pirate role, which he hasn't been for years. For all the talk about everything else and the influence of everyone, the number 1 reason why the Stones are still together and still successful is: :wtf2 |
Title: Re: Mick Jagger Furious with Prince Rupert Post by Saint Sway on Feb 12th, 2013 at 11:54am
They didnt sign a confidentiality agreement with this guy? Hows that possible?
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Title: Re: Mick Jagger Furious with Prince Rupert Post by nankerphelge on Feb 12th, 2013 at 12:05pm
My reaction as well, Sway.
And as mentioned, I would think Prince Prospero would be ethically bound by any fiducuary duties not to reveal any confidences, even if a non-disclosure agreement was signed, and even if the releationship is over. I think Jagger hit it on the head that "well brought up people can have bad manners." Just the tone of the excerpt makes me think this guy is a dick. |
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