Question:
Was there ever discussion or whatever of Ry Cooder replacing Brian--Did the Stones ever want him in the band? Or was he simply a session player and there was never any consideration of him becoming more? I ask because his period with the band coincides with Brian's phase out, so it'd seem logical to think he was a candidate for replacing Brian but I'm not sure.

I would say NO because Ry Cooder is American and one of the requirements is that to be a Stone you must be British. Thats one reason Darryl Jones will never become an official Stone. I'm sure about this point.  

Bitch wrote on Jan 25^th, 2012 at 10:22pm:

I would say NO because Ry Cooder is American and one of the requirements is that to be a Stone you must be British. Thats one reason Darryl Jones will never become an official Stone. I'm sure about this point.

...but they auditioned at least one American for Taylor's replacement, didn't they?

I think that "British band" thing was an off-the-cuff reason Keith came up with for justifying Ronnie's selection.

Edith Grove wrote on Jan 26^th, 2012 at 4:59am:

Bitch wrote on Jan 25th, 2012 at 10:22pm: I would say NO because Ry Cooder is American and one of the requirements is that to be a Stone you must be British. Thats one reason Darryl Jones will never become an official Stone. I'm sure about this point.   ...but they auditioned at least one American for Taylor's replacement, didn't they? I think that "British band" thing was an off-the-cuff reason Keith came up with for justifying Ronnie's selection.

A weak excuse for picking a lesser guitarist  :aimama

Wayne Perkins = The best guitarist that the Stones never had.

Bitch wrote on Jan 25^th, 2012 at 10:22pm:

I would say NO because Ry Cooder is American and one of the requirements is that to be a Stone you must be British. Thats one reason Darryl Jones will never become an official Stone. I'm sure about this point.

Its not a 'requirement' - its just the way it evolved.

Cooder never auditioned for the Stones. There was no vacancy when he played with them as Brian was still a band member.  Wouldnt have happened anyway. His mutual antipathy with Richards is well-known.

Harvey Mandel and Wayne Perkins were shortlisted for the job in 1975 - both Americans.

Darryl Jones not becoming a band member had nothing to do with his nationality but was purely a financial matter. No way were they going to split their share of the pie in 1994 to accommodate a newcomer. If being 'British' was a factor, they'd have recruited a British bass player.

If anything, they already had Bill's replacement in the band by that stage - Ronnie Wood. Woody was a salaried employee until they signed the contract with Virgin, a contract which Bill refused to sign as he'd declared his intention to leave. Woody effectively got 'promoted' at that time to fill the vacancy, although he doesn't quite have the same board member status as the other three.  

Ry's my favourite guitarist on the planet by some distance. I'm personally glad he never joined the Stones. A great solo career would have been all but swallowed up in the Stones' bubble.  Preferable that I got to appreciate two terrific bodies of work instead of one.

StickyStones wrote on Jan 26^th, 2012 at 5:50am:

Edith Grove wrote on Jan 26th, 2012 at 4:59am: Bitch wrote on Jan 25th, 2012 at 10:22pm: I would say NO because Ry Cooder is American and one of the requirements is that to be a Stone you must be British. Thats one reason Darryl Jones will never become an official Stone. I'm sure about this point.   ...but they auditioned at least one American for Taylor's replacement, didn't they? I think that "British band" thing was an off-the-cuff reason Keith came up with for justifying Ronnie's selection. A weak excuse for picking a lesser guitarist  :aimama Wayne Perkins = The best guitarist that the Stones never had.

Had they not picked Woody, we'd be talking about a band who split well over a generation ago. In fact, we almost certainly wouldnt be here.

I think that makes up for those shortcomings.

Gazza wrote on Jan 26^th, 2012 at 6:37am:

StickyStones wrote on Jan 26th, 2012 at 5:50am: Edith Grove wrote on Jan 26th, 2012 at 4:59am: Bitch wrote on Jan 25th, 2012 at 10:22pm: I would say NO because Ry Cooder is American and one of the requirements is that to be a Stone you must be British. Thats one reason Darryl Jones will never become an official Stone. I'm sure about this point.   ...but they auditioned at least one American for Taylor's replacement, didn't they? I think that "British band" thing was an off-the-cuff reason Keith came up with for justifying Ronnie's selection. A weak excuse for picking a lesser guitarist  :aimama Wayne Perkins = The best guitarist that the Stones never had. Had they not picked Woody, we'd be talking about a band who split well over a generation ago. In fact, we almost certainly wouldnt be here. I think that makes up for those shortcomings.

And just how did Woody save the Stones?
Hasn't he been a liability several times, the '81 tour most apparently? Hasn't there been at least one or two instances where his firing has been seriously considered?
He might have a cool personality, but that doesn't make him anything special in the Stones.

Brian Jones-- Likely a mentally or emotionally disturbed man. Yet the best musician ever to be a member of the band.
Mick Taylor-- Little to no charisma or stage presence, yet the best guitarist ever in the band who brought the Stones to a new level of popularity and songwriting and helped turn live shows into EVENTS with his guitar playing skills. Allowed the Stones to compete in the 1970s. Keith alone or a similar player alongside him would have reduced the Stones' relevance in the 1970s when it was all about the guitar.

It's just my opinion that while Woody might be an OK guitarist, he is neither the musician that Brian was, nor the guitarist that Taylor was/is. He is just a journeyman and gets along well with Keith because he doesn't threaten Keith's ego. The only thing which saved the Stones in the late 70s-early '80s was Mick taking control and pushing the Stones into new directions which Keith didn't want to go in generally. Regardless of who was on guitar, Mick still would've wanted the band to pursue Disco, New Wave and Punk.

If anything, the Stones ideally needed another Brian--a MUSICIAN who would've helped realize Mick's experimental ideas/complimented them. Instead we got a raven haired lesser copy of Keith.

StickyStones wrote on Jan 26^th, 2012 at 7:24am:

Gazza wrote on Jan 26th, 2012 at 6:37am: StickyStones wrote on Jan 26th, 2012 at 5:50am: Edith Grove wrote on Jan 26th, 2012 at 4:59am: Bitch wrote on Jan 25th, 2012 at 10:22pm: I would say NO because Ry Cooder is American and one of the requirements is that to be a Stone you must be British. Thats one reason Darryl Jones will never become an official Stone. I'm sure about this point.   ...but they auditioned at least one American for Taylor's replacement, didn't they? I think that "British band" thing was an off-the-cuff reason Keith came up with for justifying Ronnie's selection. A weak excuse for picking a lesser guitarist  :aimama Wayne Perkins = The best guitarist that the Stones never had. Had they not picked Woody, we'd be talking about a band who split well over a generation ago. In fact, we almost certainly wouldnt be here. I think that makes up for those shortcomings. And just how did Woody save the Stones? Hasn't he been a liability several times, the '81 tour most apparently? Hasn't there been at least one or two instances where his firing has been seriously considered? He might have a cool personality, but that doesn't make him anything special in the Stones. .

By being the catalyst between two strong domineering personalities that no other band member could have been or tried to be. The entire band have pretty much acknowledged it.

Its got nothing to do with his ability - or lack of it - as a musician. Thats another issue entirely.

Without Woody's ability to bring Mick and Keith together, the Stones probably would not have survived the 80s.

From this statement-- He taught Keith Richards to play slide, and the open G tuning favored by John Lee Hooker. Richards once said, "I took Ry Cooder for everything I could get," a compliment that may explain the fact that the money lick in "Honky Tonk Women" is pure Cooder-by-way-of-Hooker.
From this link.
http://www.alternatemusicpress.com/features/ry.html

So the open tuning that Keith learned was from Ry Cooder, in the '71 interview Keith does say he learned it from him like he learned licks from watching Chuck Berry in films.

Bitch wrote on Jan 25^th, 2012 at 10:22pm:

I would say NO because Ry Cooder is American and one of the requirements is that to be a Stone you must be British. Thats one reason Darryl Jones will never become an official Stone. I'm sure about this point.

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble; it's what you know for sure that just ain't so."--Mark Twain
:aimama

StickyStones wrote on Jan 26^th, 2012 at 5:50am:

Edith Grove wrote on Jan 26th, 2012 at 4:59am: Bitch wrote on Jan 25th, 2012 at 10:22pm: I would say NO because Ry Cooder is American and one of the requirements is that to be a Stone you must be British. Thats one reason Darryl Jones will never become an official Stone. I'm sure about this point.   ...but they auditioned at least one American for Taylor's replacement, didn't they? I think that "British band" thing was an off-the-cuff reason Keith came up with for justifying Ronnie's selection. A weak excuse for picking a lesser guitarist  :aimama Wayne Perkins = The best guitarist that the Stones never had.

Possibly....and its all opinion mind you but Page and Beck did somewhat jam or audition for the Stones and I personally would rank them a tad above Wayne Perkins....imho....

Brainbell Jangler wrote on Jan 26^th, 2012 at 2:26pm:

Bitch wrote on Jan 25th, 2012 at 10:22pm: I would say NO because Ry Cooder is American and one of the requirements is that to be a Stone you must be British. Thats one reason Darryl Jones will never become an official Stone. I'm sure about this point.   "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble; it's what you know for sure that just ain't so."--Mark Twain :aimama

It's a quote from the big red book According to the Rolling Stones which is the only official book sold on RS.com. I dont have it handy so I cant give a page number but its in there. I didnt make this up!  :tongui

gimmekeef wrote on Jan 26^th, 2012 at 7:47pm:

StickyStones wrote on Jan 26th, 2012 at 5:50am: Edith Grove wrote on Jan 26th, 2012 at 4:59am: Bitch wrote on Jan 25th, 2012 at 10:22pm: I would say NO because Ry Cooder is American and one of the requirements is that to be a Stone you must be British. Thats one reason Darryl Jones will never become an official Stone. I'm sure about this point.   ...but they auditioned at least one American for Taylor's replacement, didn't they? I think that "British band" thing was an off-the-cuff reason Keith came up with for justifying Ronnie's selection. A weak excuse for picking a lesser guitarist  :aimama Wayne Perkins = The best guitarist that the Stones never had. Possibly....and its all opinion mind you but Page and Beck did somewhat jam or audition for the Stones and I personally would rank them a tad above Wayne Perkins....imho....

The Stones might've wanted them and yes both are far better players...But it's different where Page and Beck wouldn't have joined the Stones even if asked. On the other hand, it was pretty much a tie between Perkins and Ronnie in 1975. I don't think Perkins would've said no if they offered him the gig.

I also think a part of the reason why Perkins wasn't picked was because he was too similar to Taylor--perhaps not just in playing but maybe in personality? Maybe they feared if they picked Perkins, he'd end up quitting like Mick did out of the blue? Might've been silly thinking on their part but at the time it could've seemed like a legitimate concern from their point of view.

From IORR.ORG, don't remember the OP.
Couple of pics from the Redlands sessions with Ry.

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/439/keitryh.jpg

http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/6913/ry1z.jpg

The Ry Cooder thing is so overblown. I actually hadn't ever come across the notion that he taught Keith slide. Hard to believe, given that Keith lived cheek-by-jowl with Brian Jones. He might've picked up a thing or two!

To sum up the Cooder thing, at the risk of sounding like a broken record: To believe that Keith "ripped off" Ry Cooder is to completely misunderstand the organic nature of musical inspiration. There is a reason Cooder, despite being a more technically gifted guitarist, did not write riffs like Can't You Hear Me Knocking, All Down the Line, Rocks Off, Jiving Sister Fanny, Happy, Before They Make Me Run, etc.

The reason is, he is not Keith Richards.

The elements of the Keef Riff reside somewhere in the unique circuitry of Keith Richards's brain; they're the experiential sum of everything he ever listened to, including Ry Cooder.

Mathijs addressed this a while ago in IORR, noting well that you could play the seeming HTW forerunner "Downtown Suzie" for 100 years and never come up with what Keith actually played. Keith's genius as a player lies in his economy. As only Keith could have, he intuited an essence in Ry's (much busier) playing and performed a small musical miracle.  

philgood wrote on Jan 27^th, 2012 at 9:26am:

From IORR.ORG, don't remember the OP. Couple of pics from the Redlands sessions with Ry. http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/439/keitryh.jpg http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/6913/ry1z.jpg

Hahah

That was great. Thanks. [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif]

Useless trivia: Kurt Cobain's (there was a thread about Nirvana in this board, not long ago) favorite movie, reportedly, was Paris Texas. If that's true, there's no denying that he had a good set of eyes, and ears (the soundtrack, available as a very short CD, with some dialogue, was played mainly by Cooder. The film is lovely by the way; but not only that: as all classics, it stands the test of time.)


:wtf3 :boring

http://youtu.be/zIU-bONSpnA

http://youtu.be/VR5zhn_geVw