1) Why does Keith seem to have such a, if you will, grudge against Brian Jones after all this time? He seems to have grown to dislike him more as the years have gone by even though Brian's been gone so long--Like he's never been able to forgive Brian.

2) Did the Stones ever meet with or comment on Jim Morrison, The Doors in general, Aerosmith or Guns N' Roses? Guns I know they met when GN'R opened for them in 1989 but during that period did any of the Stones ever comment on them--At time it seemed like GN'R was set to be the Stones of a new generation.

1) I dont know. It's pretty embarrassing, to put it mildly. An easy target, considering he can't answer back. Maybe thats exactly whats made his bitterness become more entrenched down the years - he's been able to do it without any retaliation.

2) I think Morrison may have met them during the '69 tour? One of Morrison's most celebrated arrests came when he was drunk on a flight to Phoenix in November 1969 en route to see the Stones in concert there.

In Danny Sugarman's book, "No One Here, Gets Out Alive"...he recalls asking Jim for tickets to the Stones show in LA...Morrison playfully (?) asked him "what does Jagger have that I don't?"...Danny Sugarman was the kid (12 years old!!) always hanging around and head of the Doors' fan club...later to become their 2nd manager...or maybe road manager... ...as the story goes...Jim got Sugarman the tickets...no problem...
I don't know if there is any relation to the two having had met...but a great story anyway!!

Coincidental, for your question...Sugarman also wrote a GnR bio "Appetite For Destruction: The Days of Guns N' Roses"...you may find your answers in both of these books.

I loved the Doors book...read it twice...due again for a read, I think...never read the GnR book

Gazza wrote on Jan 31^st, 2011 at 4:00pm:

1) I dont know. It's pretty embarrassing, to put it mildly. An easy target, considering he can't answer back. Maybe thats exactly whats made his bitterness become more entrenched down the years - he's been able to do it without any retaliation. 2) I think Morrison may have met them during the '69 tour? One of Morrison's most celebrated arrests came when he was drunk on a flight to Phoenix in November 1969 en route to see the Stones in concert there.

Yeah, I've noticed more and more over the years he's put down Brian and undercut Brian's importance in the beginnings of the band and even more pathetically kind of refuses to acknowledge Brian's musical contributions.

I recall Keith being quoted as saying that he doesn't really recollect meeting Morrison, though they could've perhaps once crossed paths in 'in a  smokey night club' Of course, this could all just be in Honky Tonk Man's imagination, here! One myth Keith has shot down was the one regarding Morrison meeting them in the south of France during the recording of Exile. Morison was, of course, in Paris at this time.

As for Keith's attitude towards Brian? Meh, who's ever going to really know? Things certainly soured once Anita left Brian for Keith and relations worsened from there on. What I don't get is Keith's bitching about Brian in the early years, when the pair were surely getting on.

StickyStones wrote on Jan 31^st, 2011 at 4:48pm:

Gazza wrote on Jan 31st, 2011 at 4:00pm: 1) I dont know. It's pretty embarrassing, to put it mildly. An easy target, considering he can't answer back. Maybe thats exactly whats made his bitterness become more entrenched down the years - he's been able to do it without any retaliation. 2) I think Morrison may have met them during the '69 tour? One of Morrison's most celebrated arrests came when he was drunk on a flight to Phoenix in November 1969 en route to see the Stones in concert there. Yeah, I've noticed more and more over the years he's put down Brian and undercut Brian's importance in the beginnings of the band and even more pathetically kind of refuses to acknowledge Brian's musical contributions.

Revisionism has been a big thing with the Stones in general in the last 5 or 10 years or so. History gets written by the winners, as the saying goes. The airbrushing of Wyman from the cover of 'Rarities' and the gradual downsizing of Jones' importance in the formative years of the band being two shining examples.

Honky Tonk Man wrote on Jan 31^st, 2011 at 5:09pm:

I recall Keith being quoted as saying that he doesn't really recollect meeting Morrison, though they could've perhaps once crossed paths in 'in a  smokey night club' Of course, this could all just be in Honky Tonk Man's imagination, here! One myth Keith has shot down was the one regarding Morrison meeting them in the south of France during the recording of Exile. Morrison was, of course, in Paris at this time.

Yes, he was. And in a hole in the ground at Pere-Lachaise cemetery at that!

The Stones started recording 'Exile' mid-July. Morrison died on 3rd July and was secretly buried a few days later.

Gazza wrote on Jan 31^st, 2011 at 5:16pm:

Honky Tonk Man wrote on Jan 31st, 2011 at 5:09pm: I recall Keith being quoted as saying that he doesn't really recollect meeting Morrison, though they could've perhaps once crossed paths in 'in a  smokey night club' Of course, this could all just be in Honky Tonk Man's imagination, here! One myth Keith has shot down was the one regarding Morrison meeting them in the south of France during the recording of Exile. Morrison was, of course, in Paris at this time. Yes, he was. And in a hole in the ground at Pere-Lachaise cemetery at that! The Stones started recording 'Exile' mid-July. Morrison died on 3rd July and was secretly buried a few days later.

One thing I read was Morrison got a pre-release copy of Sticky Fingers while in Paris (he was there from March 1971 to his death that July and was very much alive when Fingers came out that April) and loved it.

As for Mick's reaction to Morrison, I remember reading he saw The Doors Hollywood bowl concert, & found Jim's performance boring, this was in '68 sometime, Mick was in L.A. for something, if I did a google I could probably find it, it was in Circus magazine, which was one of the few Rock mags at the time.

Posted on a site about The Doors.
When Jim and the Doors performed at the Hollywood Bowl Jims mood and performance was a little below the usual high-energy performance he would deliver. It turned out that Mick Jagger was sitting next to his girl Pamela in the audience. Even though Jim tried very hard it caught him off guard for that evenings performance since it was Micks first time to see a live Doors performance.
http://www.thedoors.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19783

Honky Tonk Man wrote on Jan 31^st, 2011 at 5:09pm:

What I don't get is Keith's bitching about Brian in the early years, when the pair were surely getting on.

I remember a Keith interview that mentions Brian was holding out a little extra money for himself as "leader" of the band.

Keith said something like "that was the beginning of Brian's falling out" when it was discovered what Brian was doing.

Edith Grove wrote on Jan 31^st, 2011 at 6:38pm:

Honky Tonk Man wrote on Jan 31st, 2011 at 5:09pm: What I don't get is Keith's bitching about Brian in the early years, when the pair were surely getting on. I remember a Keith interview that mentions Brian was holding out a little extra money for himself as "leader" of the band. Keith said something like "that was the beginning of Brian's falling out" when it was discovered what Brian was doing.

I know, but we've heard all this before. I understand how difficult Brian could be. But, in the beginning...and a couple of times after that, it was Keith and Brian closer-than-this and Mick feeling left out. And if you look at interviews with Keith not long after Brian died, he sounds sad, melancholic....not always saying "Hey Brian was a great guy" and stuff, but not bashing him and minimizing his importance {he founded the band, fer goodness sake!} and his musical abilities. It all now just sounds like comments of a bitter, grumpy,  maybe jealous/guilty in a way? 67 year old guy.....it's sad, cuz I think, over the years, Keith has convinced himself he feels this way...

I remember Keith saying in an interview that it was good to see people just get on stage and play music, referring to GNR.

Sioux wrote on Feb 1^st, 2011 at 8:18am:

Edith Grove wrote on Jan 31st, 2011 at 6:38pm: Honky Tonk Man wrote on Jan 31st, 2011 at 5:09pm: What I don't get is Keith's bitching about Brian in the early years, when the pair were surely getting on. I remember a Keith interview that mentions Brian was holding out a little extra money for himself as "leader" of the band. Keith said something like "that was the beginning of Brian's falling out" when it was discovered what Brian was doing. I know, but we've heard all this before. I understand how difficult Brian could be. But, in the beginning...and a couple of times after that, it was Keith and Brian closer-than-this and Mick feeling left out. And if you look at interviews with Keith not long after Brian died, he sounds sad, melancholic....not always saying "Hey Brian was a great guy" and stuff, but not bashing him and minimizing his importance {he founded the band, fer goodness sake!} and his musical abilities. It all now just sounds like comments of a bitter, grumpy,  maybe jealous/guilty in a way? 67 year old guy.....it's sad, cuz I think, over the years, Keith has convinced himself he feels this way...

I think sometimes people get mad at people they're angry at for dying before they could have some closure on their relationship, and thus as the years go by it intensifies whatever bad feelings were there when the person died.

For example...My grandparents separated bitterly in 1968 cause my grandpa had cheated and they were in court for the next few years. My grandpa suffered a moderate (but not disabling in any way) stroke in 1973 and was forced (due to lack of money/anyplace else to live) to move back into my grandmother's house, but they didn't and never got back together; he just lived there because he had nowhere else to go. It was an odd environment since my grandmother's boyfriend (step-grandpa) also lived in the house at the same time, as did my mother and aunt.

While before their break up they had had vicious fights, and had deep bitterness between them due to their break up in '68, they were very civil in this period post 1973, my grandmother would even do favors for him like cashing his checks for him and even defend him when my aunt would act nasty toward him, but they never talked much otherwise. My grandpa died suddenly in 1975, two years after moving back home, and my grandmother is much more bitter and hateful toward him now with him long gone than she ever was when he was alive...Almost like she's mad at him for dying without them ever having closure and probably with a lot of questions she had unanswered and without her being able to make peace and say things she might've wanted to say.

Now, that makes some mighty good sense to me.  :) That may very well be a part of it...thanks for the explanation--and story. Very compelling...

When you have five people working so closely, and so intensly for such a long period of time, all this stuff is inevitable. The miracle is that the band has survived this long.