I think Fleetwood Mac would have been a much bigger band in the long term had they not been as influenced by their wives. Christine McVie wrecked that band the same way Linda MCCartney fucked up Wings and Yoko fucked up the Beatles.  No?

Like with Pink Floyd, there are two very different Flettwood Mac's.

There is the bluesy Peter Green incarnation and then there is the American gay-rock band that came later  ;)

Honky Tonk Man wrote on Oct 7^th, 2008 at 12:59pm:

and then there is the American gay-rock band that came later  ;)

:blankfriggingstare1

moy wrote on Oct 7^th, 2008 at 1:18pm:

[quote author=Honky Tonk Man link=1223401953/0#1 date=1223402373] and then there is the American gay-rock band that came later  ;)

As in the Fred Flinstone lyric  "we'll have a gay old time.....WILMA!!!" ?

then play on...........

Oh Well...

a great band. rumors is one of the best classic rock cd's ever made.  i have always appreciated this band.  

:pullanolte

Honky Tonk Man wrote on Oct 7^th, 2008 at 12:59pm:

Like with Pink Floyd, there are two very different Flettwood Mac's. There is the bluesy Peter Green incarnation and then there is the American gay-rock band that came later  ;)

Saw them in 2003. I can only wish Ronnie & Keith's guitar playing was anywhere near as faggoty-brilliant as Buckingham's was that night. :wtf3 I was amazed by how good they were.

You could also justifiably argue that there are two incarnations of the Stones. The one who were the living embodiment of a real, creative rock n roll band up to 1998 or so, and the Cohl corporate pawns theyve turned into ever since where art has taken a distant backseat to nostalgia and the pursuit of cash at all costs.

Amazingly, unlike Floyd or Fleetwood Mac, they dont even have the excuse of a change in personnel to explain the transformation.

Ten Thousand Motels wrote on Oct 7^th, 2008 at 12:52pm:

I think Fleetwood Mac would have been a much bigger band in the long term had they not been as influenced by their wives. Christine McVie wrecked that band the same way Linda MCCartney fucked up Wings and Yoko fucked up the Beatles.  No?

How could Linda McCartney fuck up a band in which she was a founding member?

Cant understand your take on Christine McVie preventing them being 'bigger'. They were little more than a cult or niche act when she joined. A few years later, their records were shifting about 30 million and they were playing football stadiums.

She is an absolutely brilliant singer.

I love Christine McVie {Christine Perfect.  ;)} I can't imagine that later incarnation of the band without her.

Yeah, but then there IS the Peter Green blusey Mac.... 8-)


And I think there must have been THREE incarnations of the Stones...if you include the Brian Jones era. Before the huge world tours and "Greatest R&R Band In The World" version. Maybe four, if you want to count the Mick Taylor years as a separate entity.

No. You're just trying to start threads ad infinitum but at least try to be sensible when doing so.

Stevie Nicks was the girl EVERYONE wanted to be ~ all the girls in my school wished they were her, she was the role model we tried to copy~ her style, poise, understated sexiness, her clothes, her voice, the songs, she was one cool chick! All the girls copied her. And we bought all the records, went to the concerts, played the albums, it was fun. FM is a fun band, we liked Christine McVie too but not as much as Stevie. I think they were great!

Sioux wrote on Oct 7^th, 2008 at 6:26pm:

I love Christine McVie {Christine Perfect.  ;)} I can't imagine that later incarnation of the band without her. Yeah, but then there IS the Peter Green blusey Mac.... 8-) And I think there must have been THREE incarnations of the Stones...if you include the Brian Jones era. Before the huge world tours and "Greatest R&R Band In The World" version. Maybe four, if you want to count the Mick Taylor years as a separate entity.

Each single change in personnel didnt necessarily see a change in direction. Musically, the most significant change came around the time Oldham was ousted and they became more orientated towards albums and away from appealing to kids - before Jones left. Changes since that have been gradual and a natural form of evolution.

The whole artistic ethos of the band from that point - for me at least - remained relatively constant for decades after that, even after Cohl's initial involvement in 1989.

They're unfortunately not the band I followed prior to 1998-99 or so, even though I still love their shows and continue to like what new music they occasionally produce.

I guess its a case of still loving the music as much as ever, but absolutely despising the business entity and how THAT has become more important. To their artistic detriment, unfortunately.

Bitch wrote on Oct 7^th, 2008 at 6:42pm:

Stevie Nicks was the girl EVERYONE wanted to be ~ all the girls in my school wished they were her, she was the role model we tried to copy~ her style, poise, understated sexiness, her clothes, her voice, the songs, she was one cool chick! All the girls copied her.

Did the girls at school also yearn to have a lackey whose job was to crouch underneath them and blow coke up their bum through a straw?  :wtf3

Allegedly.

Bitch wrote on Oct 7^th, 2008 at 6:42pm:

Stevie Nicks was the girl EVERYONE wanted to be ~ all the girls in my school wished they were her, she was the role model we tried to copy

Guess you didn't go to Ridgemont High.
All those chicks wanted to be Pat Benatar...

Peter Green's fuckin' brilliant, but don't forget that Danny Kirwin and Jeremy Spencer were pretty damn good as well.....

lotsajizz wrote on Oct 7^th, 2008 at 7:18pm:

Peter Green's fuckin' brilliant, but don't forget that Danny Kirwin and Jeremy Spencer were pretty damn good as well.....

ditto :smile

that John Mayall had a friggin' guitar FACTORY there for a while!!

Not AS familiar with the Peter Green "edition" although I enjoy what I've heard.

Fleetwood Mac was probably my second favorite band of my teen years.
Agreed with Bitch about Stevie Nicks.
Saw The Dance Tour and Lindsay Buckingham's guitar REALLY blew me away. He's vastly underrated.

LJ.

In their big time record sales era, their albums were sometimes good, sometimes not. They've had a million lineups, with only Mick Fleetwood in there the whole time since 1967 (John McVie joined a few months later). They were a good blues-rock band, but not elite like Cream or the Stones. I actually liked them better between 1970-74 than 1967-70. Bare Trees is a solid rock-pop album that is as good, if not more unpolished, than Fleetwood Mac (1975) or Rumours. They had some bad luck there, with Peter Green being a schizo that bailed his own band in 1970, then Jeremy Spencer bolting to join the fucked-up cult Children of God and Danny Kirwan quitting from his own shaky nerves and alcoholism.

Bob Welch replaced Spencer and kind of had this weird adult contemporary, slick top 40 touch to his songs (best of which being "Future Games," "Hypnotized" and "The Ghost"). Christine McVie wrote great even before Buckingham Nicks arrived. Kiln House and Bare Trees were their best in the pre-Buckingham/Nicks days and get unjustly overlooked right to today. That being said, Buckingham was the best writer the band ever had (followed by McVie, Nicks and Kirwan) and the most complete guitarist (could ply blues, rock but also had incredible depth of skill in folk with his fingerpicking brilliance).

Peter Green could really play but only "Albatross" stands as a masterpiece he penned and it's instrumental. Spencer was a better songwriter, but Danny Kirwan was not only a great guitarist, but a talented songwriter so it's too bad. Also a good singer. Check out "Jewel Eyed Judy," "Station Man," "Dragonfly," "Sands of Time," "Woman of 1000 Years," "Bare Trees," "Child of Mine," "Dust" and the great instrumentals "Earl Gray" and "Sunny Side of Heaven"- all are great tunes). I don't think Penguin or Heroes Are Hard to Find are very good, although Mystery to Me was alright. The first of the three Peter Green LPs was the best of the lot. But Bare Trees and Kiln House kick ass. In their big arena days, lots of great songs although some of their 80s stuff is horribly overproduced, especially on Tango in the Night. But "Big Love," "Hold Me," "Gyspy," "Sara," "Tusk" and made their 1979-87 period decent. Afterward, I haven't paid attention to anything non-Buckingham related. Ok, my favourite albums:

1. Rumours: A
2. Bare Trees: A-
3. Kiln House: A-
4. Fleetwood Mac: B+
5. Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac: B+

Gazza wrote on Oct 7^th, 2008 at 7:07pm:

Bitch wrote on Oct 7th, 2008 at 6:42pm: Stevie Nicks was the girl EVERYONE wanted to be ~ all the girls in my school wished they were her, she was the role model we tried to copy~ her style, poise, understated sexiness, her clothes, her voice, the songs, she was one cool chick! All the girls copied her. Did the girls at school also yearn to have a lackey whose job was to crouch underneath them and blow coke up their bum through a straw?  :wtf3 Allegedly.

no we just had them licking it off us  :paristhong

Hey now :perverted

As simple as this (and I think I have told this many times in this board): The original Fleetwood Mac is one of my favorites blues bands (by ugly white folks) but the greenless Fleetwood Mac is a band I can’t hardly listen. However there are some songs on “Rumors” that I like (a little) and to be honest I have never heard something from the 80s to 00s

Gazza wrote on Oct 7^th, 2008 at 5:53pm:

How could Linda McCartney fuck up a band in which she was a founding member?

Come on Gazza! There's a lot of examples... Robert Lamm and Peter Cetera are a good example.

Voodoo Chile in Wonderland wrote on Oct 7^th, 2008 at 10:05pm:

Gazza wrote on Oct 7th, 2008 at 5:53pm: How could Linda McCartney fuck up a band in which she was a founding member? Come on Gazza! There's a lot of examples... Robert Lamm and Peter Cetera are a good example.

Ouch...That's pretty funny,considering I'm listening to I'm A Man by Chicago right now. Way back when they were a good band.

sweetcharmedlife wrote on Oct 7^th, 2008 at 10:12pm:

Voodoo Chile in Wonderland wrote on Oct 7th, 2008 at 10:05pm: Gazza wrote on Oct 7th, 2008 at 5:53pm: How could Linda McCartney fuck up a band in which she was a founding member? Come on Gazza! There's a lot of examples... Robert Lamm and Peter Cetera are a good example. Ouch...That's pretty funny,considering I'm listening to I'm A Man by Chicago right now. Way back when they were a good band.

Yeah, back when they were Chicago Transit Authority. I was living her in Va., but listening to WLS in Chicago, late at night, on my tiny transistor radio in 1968. I heard a song called "Listen" by a band that they called "Chicago". I wanted to know who the group was! I kept yelling at the radio, "I KNOW you are in Chicago! It's a Chicago station! But, who is the band??"  ::)


And I still remember the first time I heard "Hold Me" {Fleetwood Mac} on the car radio. I just loved it. I had to make a U-turn, head back to the mall, and go to Sam Goody's {remember that place?} and buy the 45. YES, they still made 45's back then! I still have it.....

IMO, the Stones haven't gone through different incarnations - they've just evolved musically. Don't forget: Essentially, the only change with the Stones has been with the second guitarist. The core lineup is still intact.

Fleetwood Mac on the other hand - like I stated in my original post - have changed beyond all recognition. The Green-era is far, far more credible.

Honky Tonk Man wrote on Oct 8^th, 2008 at 4:34am:

IMO, the Stones haven't gone through different incarnations - they've just evolved musically. Don't forget: Essentially, the only change with the Stones has been with the second guitarist. The core lineup is still intact. Fleetwood Mac on the other hand - like I stated in my original post - have changed beyond all recognition. The Green-era is far, far more credible.

Agreed, but they were just two different types of band. Check out some of the stuff between 1970-74. It's a good bridge between the eras, with the personnel change time period yielding plenty of great stuff, some of their best, in the wake of Green. I liked their electric blues, but Green's FM was short on substance. Then Play On shows how the band was evolving. "Albatross" was one of the turning points. They made some awesome folkier mellow stuff between 1970-74, not unlike music heard on the Stones Goats Head Soup in fact.

Voodoo Chile in Wonderland wrote on Oct 7^th, 2008 at 10:05pm:

Gazza wrote on Oct 7th, 2008 at 5:53pm: How could Linda McCartney fuck up a band in which she was a founding member? Come on Gazza! There's a lot of examples... Robert Lamm and Peter Cetera are a good example.

Thats missing the point. It would have to have been good BEFORE someone or something fucked it up. If she was there from the start, then that implies it was already fucked up when she joined.

Gazza wrote on Oct 8^th, 2008 at 7:12am:

Voodoo Chile in Wonderland wrote on Oct 7th, 2008 at 10:05pm: Gazza wrote on Oct 7th, 2008 at 5:53pm: How could Linda McCartney fuck up a band in which she was a founding member? Come on Gazza! There's a lot of examples... Robert Lamm and Peter Cetera are a good example. Thats missing the point. It would have to have been good BEFORE someone or something fucked it up. If she was there from the start, then that implies it was already fucked up when she joined.

It seems to me that what starts fucked up stays fucked up
unless the original fuck up is unfucked up somehow.   :D

" It seems to me that what starts fucked up stays fucked up
unless the original fuck up is unfucked up somehow.   "


< ----- The above statement makes Joey drink in mornings


Oh Little Fella ( Little Fijikins )  ... Why ?!   ... WHY ?!

Joey wrote on Oct 8^th, 2008 at 9:19am:

" It seems to me that what starts fucked up stays fucked up unless the original fuck up is unfucked up somehow.   " < ----- The above statement makes Joey drink in mornings

I think it origially came from Confucious or Plato.

Ten Thousand Motels wrote on Oct 8^th, 2008 at 9:24am:

Joey wrote on Oct 8th, 2008 at 9:19am: " It seems to me that what starts fucked up stays fucked up unless the original fuck up is unfucked up somehow.   " < ----- The above statement makes Joey drink in mornings I think it origially came from Confucious or Plato.

Or a confused Plato.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_JdKJQPS9I

How can you not like Chritine after hearing something like this?

Gazza wrote on Oct 8^th, 2008 at 7:12am:

Voodoo Chile in Wonderland wrote on Oct 7th, 2008 at 10:05pm: Gazza wrote on Oct 7th, 2008 at 5:53pm: How could Linda McCartney fuck up a band in which she was a founding member? Come on Gazza! There's a lot of examples... Robert Lamm and Peter Cetera are a good example. Thats missing the point. It would have to have been good BEFORE someone or something fucked it up. If she was there from the start, then that implies it was already fucked up when she joined.

What if the person who fucks up the band wasn't fucked when the band started but became fucked by some internal/external agency, thereby fucking up the band by extension?

The most fucked up thing about Wings was the notion that it was a real band.