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undercover extended dance remix :retarded

I love that undercover video.....that's kind of what we're doing over in Iraq and Afghanistan today. Terrorizing the population. Keeping them in line. I'll bet they'll be so glad when "we" leave. But who'll protect them if "we" leave. As long as we're there we can protect "them" from "us." And they need protection from us. Blackwater can provide it for a fee.

June 27, 2008
The Yellow Press
by William S. Lind
antiwar.com

A person my age has watched many things decline in America, and few get better. As one of my neighbors says, everything good is gone or going. In that category we must now include good reporting. When I started work in Washington in 1973, it was axiomatic that a newspaper reporter talked to many sources for any story. The story, in turn, reflected a number of viewpoints and perspectives. No reporter worth his bourbon would have dreamed of just printing some press release put out by the government.

But that is now what they all seem to do, especially in covering the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Forgetting that the phrase "to lie like a bulletin" is military in origin – the reference is to bulletins issued by Napoleon's grande armeé – they print verbatim the happy talk the U.S. military is obliged by the Bush administration to spew. To the degree the war in Iraq is still covered, the American public is assured over and over that "violence is down." For the moment, that is true, but the implication that we are on a roll is not true. Fourth Generation wars do not move in linear fashion. Violence is down because the constantly shifting network of deals and alliances among Iraq's warlords has created a stable interlude. Those alliances will continue to shift, and as they do so violence will rise again. How many reporters are asking the talking-dog majors who brief the press the central strategic question, namely whether there is any evidence a state is reemerging in Iraq? As best I can tell, none. The same number appears to be trying to answer that question from other, more reliable sources.

The reporting on Afghanistan is if anything worse. On Sunday, June 22, the Cleveland Plain Dealer, a paper I like, printed an AP article under the headline, "Marines Drive Taliban From Volatile Province," namely Helmand. The article itself more modestly claims victory in one Helmand town, Garmser. If the 24th MEU has driven the Taliban out of Helmand province, I'll eat my yurt. One town, maybe, but what does taking a town mean in a guerilla war? When the Marines leave, which they will, the Taliban will return.

The fact of the matter is, the whole NATO/American effort in Afghanistan is circling the drain. The American papers should be full of in-depth, multi-sourced stories about the war there. A friend just back from Britain reports that the British press is full of just such stories. In one recent 10-day period, the Brits lost nine soldiers killed, including their first woman. Was that reported anywhere in the U.S. press?

What lies behind the decline in the quality of American reporting? Cutbacks in the size of newsrooms are part of the answer. As the electronic image replaces the printed word, newspapers are dying. To those who know that perceiving reality requires more than shadows on the cave wall, that is bad news.

Lazy reporters are another part of the answer. It is easy to print the bulletins. Reporters have always been lazy, but now their editors let them get away with it. Not too many decades ago, any reporter who single-sourced a story would have been sent back on the street to get more sources, with a richness of invective editors seldom lacked.

But the biggest reason, I suspect, is intellectual cowardice. After the defeat in Vietnam, many supporters of the war blamed the press for our failure. By printing the bad news, the press supposedly undermined popular support for the war and thereby caused our defeat. It's poppycock, of course. The Vietnam War was lost early in the game when MACV, at the demand of Gen. William Depuy, ordered an end to efforts to control the populated coastal lowlands in favor of fighting formal battles against enemy main force units in the highlands. Those units were sent there as bait, which MACV took.

But the American press was scarred by the accusations. Now, it is afraid to be accused of "not supporting the troops" if it does anything but print the bulletins. So the American public gets the mushroom treatment, and two failed wars continue ad infinitum. When the roof falls in both in Iraq and in Afghanistan, the shock will be considerable. America's yellow press will deserve no small share of the blame.

TenThousandMotels wrote on Jun 27^th, 2008 at 7:42pm:

The idiocy that is on display in the above post would be staggering if if came from anyone else but you TTM. Do you even know anyone that has served in Iraq or Afganistan?! That is the most uniformed meanspirited stupid fucking post that you have ever made, and trust me, that's saying something given your history of stupid uninformed posts. Fucking pathetic.

Riffy

Under rated LP. IMHO.

Riffhard wrote on Jun 27^th, 2008 at 8:05pm:

TenThousandMotels wrote on Jun 27^th, 2008 at 7:42pm:

Nope. We got NO business there now. NONE. ZERO. My youngest brother was in Iraq two or three times. As well as being one of the top recruiters for the army in northern New England. My nephew can't wait to go over and slam a few "ragheads".

Riffhard wrote on Jun 27^th, 2008 at 8:05pm:

[quote author=, and trust me, that's saying something given your history of stupid uninformed posts. Fucking pathetic.

Riffy

Vague generalities. Could you give me some specific examples?

BTW....just out of curiosity .... is the US CIA still running death squads in south America now that Ollie and Pinochet are retired? Back in the good old days you just threw leftists out of airplanes in the middle of the Atlantic.

30,000 people "disappeared"

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: These women--known as the Mothers of the Plaza de Mayo--have become famous in Argentina because they refuse to forget. Almost two decades have passed since their loved ones disappeared in what is often termed Argentina's "Dirty War." To have "disappeared" in those years--as an estimated 30,000 people did--is almost certainly to have been killed. The Mothers of the Plaza de Mayo want an accounting of what happened to their relatives and punishment of those responsible. The organization has been demonstrating in downtown Buenos Aires every week since just after a 1976 coup brought a military junta to power. Tex Harris was a political officer at the U.S. embassy in Buenos Aires in those years.

F. ALLEN "TEX" HARRIS, Former Embassy Official: For the most part the state terrorist system worked with a kind of numbing brutal efficiency. People were disappeared by what was called the Left Hand. They were tortured for information. They were identified for extermination, and they disappeared.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: The "exterminations" continued until 1982, when Britain defeated Argentina's generals in the Falklands War, and military rule ended. Three years later, Argentina's elected President, Raul Alfonsin, ordered trials of the nine admirals and generals who ruled the country during the years of military dictatorship. Five of the nine were convicted and given sentences ranging from several years to life imprisonment.

But in 1989, Alfonsin's successor, Carlos Menem, the current president, pardoned some leftist guerrillas and the convicted generals and forbade any future trials, saying this was the only way to heal the wounds of the past. Adolfo Perez Esquivel was among those upset by Menem's action. Esquivel had been Imprisoned and tortured in the 70's, and won a Nobel peace prize in 1980 for his non-violent resistance to the military government.

ADOLFO PEREZ ESQUIVEL: (speaking through interpreter) President Menem freed criminals who had been tried and who had not yet been sentenced, which is unconstitutional and violates treaties and international law. So what are the consequences--now--of this impunity? All the criminals are free and some of them hold public office.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: In 1995 this book was published and it added weight to the arguments of those who opposed the pardons. In the book ex naval officer Adolfo Scilingo admits that on orders from his superiors he and other officers dumped "The disappeared"--still alive--from airplanes into the South Atlantic.

ADOLFO SCILINGO: (speaking through interpreter) I participated in two flights. It may be easier than killing someone face to face, but I wiped out 30 sleeping, naked, defenseless people without even knowing what they did and, in fact, now knowing that the great majority never did anything. The use of airplanes--the transfer of the people onto the planes--all the logistics of these flights--I believe only a monster could have designed such a sophisticated killing machine.

Present day problems

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: In the two years since Scilingo's confession the movement against impunity has intensified but so has violence against government critics. This demonstration last March commemorated the murder two months earlier of photojournalist Jose Luis Cabezas.

He had been investigating police corruption in Buenos Aires Province for "Noticias" magazine when he was abducted from a party and killed. Then last month four men showing police identification abducted the ex-navy officer Adolfo Scilingo and carved three initials into his face. They were the initials of journalists to whom Scilingo had told his story. Those who oppose president's Menem's pardons argue the lack of accountability for past crimes is partly to blame for these more recent acts of intimidation. Alicia Portnoy was taken prisoner during the 1970's but survived.

ALICIA PORTNOY: If you don't do justice in those cases, this is going to sound very trite, it's been said so much that it sounds trite, but if you don't do justice, this can happen again.

If you can't see the utter contempt for country and our troops that your meanspirited and completely clueless post clearly shows then there's nothing that I could point to that could make it any clearer for you TTM. It's a classless and tasteless post. It shows a complete lack of knowledge as to what is happening on the ground inside these countries, and it's nothing but disgusting baseless lies. Not to mention that it shows that you seemingly have no problem throwing your own brother's fellow troops, and indeed your own brother as well, under the bus, and describe them all as terrorists just for good measure.

As I said before,pathetic.

Riffy

Riffhard wrote on Jun 27^th, 2008 at 8:51pm:

It's got nothing to do with the troops or my bother. It's policy. I suppose a good soldier has to not question bad policy.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/General/JohnnyGotHisGun.html

It will be you-you who urge us on to battle you who incite us against ourselves you who would have one cobbler kill another cobbler you who would have one man who works kill another man who works you who would have one human being who wants only to live kill another human being who wants only to live. Remember this. Remember this well you people who plan for war. Remember this you patriots you fierce ones you spawners of hate you inventors of slogans. Remember this as you have never remembered anything else in your lives.

We are men of peace we are men who work and we want no quarrel. But if you destroy our peace if you take away our work if you try to range us one against the other we will know what to do. If you tell us to make the world safe for democracy we will take you seriously and by god and by Christ we will make it so. We will use the guns you force upon us we will use them to defend our very lives and the menace to our lives does not lie on the other side of a nomansland that was set apart without our consent it lies within our own boundaries here and now we have seen it and we know it.

Put the guns into our hands and we will use them. Give us the slogans and we will turn them into realities. Sing the battle hymns and we will take them up where you left off. Not one not ten not ten thousand not a million not ten millions not a hundred millions but a billion two billions of us all the people of the world we will have the slogans and we will have the hymns and we will have the guns and we will use them and we will live. Make no mistake of it we will live. We will be alive and we will walk and talk and eat and sing and laugh and feel and love and bear our children in tranquillity in security in decency in peace. You plan the wars you masters of men plan the wars and point the way and we will point the gun.

TenThousandMotels wrote on Jun 27^th, 2008 at 8:55pm:

Riffhard wrote on Jun 27^th, 2008 at 8:51pm:

It's got nothing to do with the troops or my bother. It's policy. I suppose a good soldier has to not question bad policy.

Pathetic excuse of a pathetic post, but if it helps you feel better just keep telling yourself that you didn't disparage the troops when you plainly stated that they were terrorizing innocent Iraqis and Afghanis. I know what you meant, and so does everyone else that is willing to be intellectually honest.

Riffy

Riffhard wrote on Jun 27^th, 2008 at 9:19pm:

TenThousandMotels wrote on Jun 27^th, 2008 at 8:55pm:

Riffhard wrote on Jun 27^th, 2008 at 8:51pm:

It's got nothing to do with the troops or my bother. It's policy. I suppose a good soldier has to not question bad policy.

Pathetic excuse of a pathetic post, but if it helps you feel better just keep telling yourself that you didn't disbarage the troops when you plainly stated that they were terrorizing innocent Iraqis and Afganies. I know what you meant, and so does everyone else that is willing to be intellectually honest.

Riffy

You should ask them really.

Nice. But the occupation is still still illegal.

It is a universal truth that the loss of liberty at home is to be charged to the provisions against danger, real or pretended, from abroad.
James Madison

No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.
James Madison

The means of defense against foreign danger historically have become the instruments of tyranny at home.
James Madison

Hey TTM, major kudos to your brother, for serving our country.
Curious, have you ever talked to anyone who had a family member
perish on 9/11? I was at a corporation this week where walking
out the door was a memorial to 9 who had perished. Talking to
employees there, there was not one who did not think what is
happening in Iraq or Afganistan was not right. Furthermore,
they support more action of this ilk in the attempt to irradicate
such filth, that before 9/11, and to this day, is intent upon roasting
our US carcass over a fire of death right here in our country. In your little
lean-to in Maine. Your doing well in the copy & paste department with James Madison.
What would Mr. Madison think about our country not maintaining the
proper safeguards which let a band of Arabs take over four airplanes
crashing them into three buildings, and a field, where thousands died.
We should just not do anything? That these losers could obtain flying
lessons, go undetected at airports, reek havoc as they did, killing thousands of
innocent citizens, because our country pre 9/11 did nothing to weed out
the trash which had infiltrated our borders?
Enough with the pablum.

"Enough with the pablum."

TTM LOVES pablum! And Barry O'Bama will deliver as much as he likes. YES WE CAN!

For some odd reason, I've never really liked that album. Perhaps I should give it another listen to see if it's aged well. [smiley=cheesy.gif] (Or, if I've aged well). [smiley=tongue.gif]

Undercover not so good: 5/10

As for Iraq - I agree we should not be there - from what I've read, none of the 9/11 assholes were from there. Have we found Osama yet??

" And they need protection from us. Blackwater can provide it for a fee. "

What the United States needs to do next is invade Iran and spend another four billion dollars a week protecting THAT country .

Why Not ?! ... It is only money and we can make our nations' children and grandchildren pay for it all ---- Joey like ( cause HE ain't paying for it ) !!!!!

" Re-Institute the Draft TOO , Ronnie "

JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJACKY CAKES !!!!

This thread is kinda funny.

Politics aside (I side with Riffhard, by the way) Undercover is an excellent song, and frankly under rated.

Nellcote wrote on Jun 28^th, 2008 at 5:14am:

Enough with the pablum.

Indeed. The pablum that the occupation of Iraq has something to do with 9-11.....

MrPleasant wrote on Jun 28^th, 2008 at 7:49pm:

This thread is kinda funny.

I'm glad someone finds it amusing. :keithpunky

That's OK Mr. P. , I've got kind of a warped sense of humor myself. :booze

Nellcote wrote on Jun 28^th, 2008 at 5:14am:

Hey TTM, major kudos to your brother, for serving our country.

Thanks. he's a good lad. I think he's got about 22 years added up. He's one of my few relatives that I never discuss politics with. We pretty much know what each others opinions are anyway. My nephew in doing the ROTC thing in college. My bother was in Northern Iraq during Gulf War I, he said that he never shot at an Iraqi soldier because they were always out of firing range. The US would go forward and the Iraqis would pull back.

wrote on Jun 28^th, 2008 at 8:06am:

"Enough with the pablum."

TTM LOVES pablum! And Barry O'Bama will deliver as much as he likes. YES WE CAN!

I'm not voting for Obama. But the only republican I'm voting for is Suzy-Girl. That's the only race in Maine that has national implications this year...like control of the Senate.

Glimmer Twin wrote on Jun 28^th, 2008 at 10:26pm:

Politics aside (I side with Riffhard, by the way) Undercover is an excellent song, and frankly under rated.

I side with Riffy too....on alot of stuff. Just not this. Riffy, as far as I can tell, and I only "know" him from the boards, is good person and a nice guy. They say war is hell for good reason. It divides people....for one thing.

" They say war is hell for good reason. It divides people....for one thing. "

" War is one Hell of a way to settle a dispute . " ( Keith John Moon , 1908 )

http://www.blackcommentator.com/283/283_welcome_home_shut_up_rockwell_guest.html

There are two kinds of courage in war - physical courage and moral courage. Physical courage is very common on the battlefield. Men and women on both sides risk their lives, place their own bodies in harm’s way. Moral courage, however, is quite rare. According to Chris Hedges, the brilliant New York Times war correspondent who survived wars in Latin America, Africa, the Middle East and the Balkans, “I rarely saw moral courage. Moral courage is harder. It requires the bearer to walk away from the warm embrace of comradeship and denounce the myth of war as a fraud, to name it as an enterprise of death and immorality, to condemn himself, and those around him, as killers. It requires the bearer to become an outcast. There are times when taking a moral stance, perhaps the highest form of patriotism, means facing down the community, even the nation.”

More and more U.S. soldiers and Marines, at great cost to their own careers and reputations, are speaking publicly about U.S. atrocities in Iraq, even about the cowardice of their own commanders, who send youth into atrocity-producing situations only to hide from the consequences of their own orders. In 2007, two brilliant war memoirs - ROAD FROM AR RAMADI by Staff Sergeant Camilo Mejia, and THE SUTRAS OF ABU GHRAIB by Army Reservist Aidan Delgado - appeared in print. In March 2008, at the Winter Soldier investigation just outside Washington D.C., hard-core U.S. Iraqi veterans, some shaking at the podium, some in tears, unburdened their souls. Jon Michael Turner described the horrific incident in which, on April 28, 2008, he shot an Iraqi boy in front of his father. His commanding officer congratulated him for “the kill.” To a stunned audience, Turner presented a photo of the boy’s skull, and said: “I am sorry for the hate and destruction I have inflicted on innocent people.”

The Winter Soldier investigation was followed by the publication of COLLATERAL DAMAGE: AMERICA’S WAR AGAINST IRAQI CIVILIANS, by Chris Hedges and Laila Al-Arian. Based on hundreds of hours of taped interviews with Iraqi combat veterans, this pioneering work on the catastrophe in Iraq includes the largest number of eyewitness accounts from U.S. military personnel on record.

The Courage to Resist

We cannot understand the psychological and moral significance of military resistance unless we recognize the social forces that stifle conscience and human individuality in military life. Gwen Dyer, historian of war, writes that ordinarily, “Men will kill under compulsion. Men will do almost anything if they know it is expected of them and they are under strong social pressure to comply.” “Only exceptional people resist atrocity,” writes psychiatrist Robert Lifton.

How much easier it is to surrender to the will of superiors, to merge into the anonymity of the group. It takes uncommon courage to resist military powers of intimidation, peer pressure, and the atmosphere of racism and hate that drives all imperial wars.

Silencing the Witnesses to War

War crimes are collective in nature. Especially in wars based on fraud, soldiers are expected to lie - to their country, to their community, even to themselves. The silencing process begins on the battlefield in the presence of officers, power-holders who seek to nullify the perceptions and personal experience of troops under their command.

In his war memoir, Aidan Delgado describes attempts of his commanders to suppress the truth about Abu Ghraib. First his captain says the Army has nothing to hide, Abu Ghraib is just a rumor. But then the captain continues: “We don’t need to air our dirty laundry in public. If you have photos that you’re not supposed to have, get rid of them. Don’t talk about this to anyone, don’t write about it to anyone back home.” In the U.S. military, the truth is seditious.

Two years ago, Marine Sergeant Jimmy Massey published his riveting autobiography (written with Natasha Saulnier) in France and Spain. How the Marine Corps - through indoctrination and intimidation - transforms a homeboy from the Smoky Mountains of North Carolina into a professional killer who murders “innocent people for his government” is the subject of Massey’s unsettling, impassioned, Jar-head raunchy, and ultimately uplifting memoir, COWBOYS FROM HELL. (No U.S. publisher has picked up the book. A Marine who speaks truth to power is not without honor save in his own country.) In Chapter 18, Jimmy describes a seemingly minor encounter with his captain. Here Massey gives us a look into the process of human denial in its early phase.

Massey has just participated in a checkpoint massacre of civilians. His sense of decency, his sanity, is still in tact. Like any normal human being, he is distraught. The carnage of the war, the imbalance of power between the biggest war machine in history and a suffering people devoid of tanks and air power - the sheer injustice of it all - begins to take its toll on Massey’s conscience.

In the wake of the horrific events of the day, his captain is cool. He walks up to Massey and asks; “Are you doing all right, Staff Sergeant?” Massey responds: “No, sir. I am not doing O.K. Today was a bad day. We killed a lot of innocent civilians.”

Fully of aware of the civilian carnage, his captain asserts: “No, today was a good day.”

Relatives wailing, cars destroyed, blood all over the ground, Marines celebrating, civilians dead, and “it was good day”!

The Massey incident goes beyond the mendacity of military life. It concerns the control, the dehumanization of the psyches of our troops.

As one Vietnam veteran put it years ago: “They kept fucking with my mind.”

In 1994 Jonathan Shay, staff psychiatrist in the Department of Veterans Affairs, published a pioneering work on post traumatic stress – Achilles in Vietnam: Combat Trauma and the Undoing of Character. According to Shay, who recorded volumes of testimony from Vietnam veterans, commanders routinely try to efface the perceptions and the normal feelings of compassion among American troops. Military necessity, including the ever-present need for political propaganda, determines what is perceived, and how it is perceived, in war.

It was an extremely common experience in Vietnam, Shay writes, to be told by military superiors dealing with crime and trauma: “You didn’t experience it, it never happened, and you don’t know what you know.” And it was fairly common for traumatized soldiers to say to reporters: “It didn’t happen. And besides, they had it coming.” Shay recorded the testimony of one veteran who, in great anger, describes the pressures to alter his perceptions of collective murder.

“Daylight came, and we found out we killed a lot of fishermen and kids...You said to the team, ‘Don’t worry about it. Everything’s fucking fine.’ Because that’s what we were getting from upstairs. The fucking colonel says, ‘Don’t worry about it. We’ll take care of it. We got body count.’ They’d be handing out fucking medals for killing civilians. So in your mind you’re saying, ‘Ah, fuck it, they’re just gooks.’ I was sick over it, after this happened. I actually puked my guts out...But see, it’s all explained to you by captains and colonels and majors. ‘Fuck it, they was suspects anyways. You guys did a great job. Erase it. It’s yesterday’s fucking news.’”
Willful Ignorance at Home

The collective process of denial on the battlefield eventually extends to the homeland. Returning soldiers, to be sure, are often honored, but only so long as they remain silent about the realities, the pathos, the absurd evils of war. Willful public ignorance is a source of pain for veterans.

Ernest Hemingway’s brilliant short story, Soldier’s Home, published in 1925 after World War I, gives us insight into the reluctance of civilians to address the psychic needs of soldiers back from war.

The simply told story is about a young man named Krebs who returns to his home in Oklahoma. At first Krebs does not want to talk about the war. But soon he feels the need to speak - to his family, his neighbors and friends. But as Hemingway tells us, “Nobody wanted to hear about it.” His town did not want to learn about atrocities, and “Krebs found that to be listened to at all he had to lie.”

There’s the rub. His ability to assimilate into civilian life depended on his willingness to fabricate stories about the war. Soldiers are not only expected to lie on behalf of the military during the course of war, they are also expected to participate in homecoming rituals that preserve the civilian fantasy of war’s nobility.

In Hemingway’s story, the pressure to lie is so powerful, Krebs begins to manufacture stories about his experiences in battle - just to get along, just be able to lead a normal life.

Repression, however, is a major cause of mental illness and loneliness. Krebs morale deteriorates. He sleeps late in bed. He loses interest in work. He withdraws into himself.

That’s all Hemingway tells us. It’s a quietly told story, all the more powerful for its understatement.

There is a connection between Hemingway’s war-informed fiction and real life. As Shay notes, there is a tension between a soldier’s need to communalize shame and grief and the unwillingness of civilians to listen to troops whom they sent into battle. One Vietnam veteran told the following story:

“I had just come back from Vietnam and my first wife’s parents gave a dinner for me and my parents and her brothers and their wives. And after dinner we were all sitting in the living room and her father said: ‘So, tell us what it was like.’ And I started to tell them, and I told them. And do you know that within five minutes the room was empty. They were all gone, except my wife. After that I didn’t tell anybody what I had seen in Vietnam.”
Welcome home, soldier. Now shut up.

Notwithstanding clichés and pieties about support for troops, those who promote war are often the least likely to share the burdens and memories of war when soldiers return. When Ron Kovic, who was paralyzed from the chest down during the war in Vietnam, steered his wheelchair down the aisle of the Republican National Convention in 1972, the delegates spat on him and cheered for Nixon - “Four more years.”

W.D. Erhart, Vietnam veteran and author of Passing Time, never forgot the horrific episodes of his tour in Vietnam. In his first autobiography, he tells a friend about his speech at a Rotary Club. “I even put on a coat and tie and went to the Rotary Club. The Rotary Club, for chrissake. I laid it all out for ‘em. I told ‘em about search and destroy missions, harassment and interdiction fire, winning hearts and minds, all that stuff...Was I ever sharp that day.

“Now listen. You won’t believe this. I got done and nobody said a word. No applause. Nothing. Then this skinny old fart shaped like a cold chisel gets up and says he’s a retired colonel, and he thinks we should keep on pounding those little yellow bastards until they do what we say or we kill ‘em all, and he tells me I can’t be a real veteran because a real veteran wouldn’t go around badmouthing the good old U.S. of A., and the whole place erupts in thunderous applause.”

Welcome home, soldier. Now shut up.

Today Georgia Stillwell is a mother of a 21-year-old Iraqi war veteran. Her son is now homeless, unemployed, and despondent. Early one morning he drove his car over an embankment. She says that her son is a mere physical shell of himself. “My son’s spirit and soul must still be wandering the streets of Iraq.” It is not simply what happened in Iraq, but how veterans are treated at home when they seek to unburden their souls, that reinforces post-traumatic stress. On the night he drove the car off the road, he was crying, talking about the war. “His friends tell me he talks about the war. They describe it as ‘crazy talk.’ He wants the blood of the Iraqis he killed off his hands.”

Riffhard wrote on Jun 27^th, 2008 at 8:51pm:

Not to mention that it shows that you seemingly have no problem throwing your own brother's fellow troops, and indeed your own brother as well, under the bus, and describe them all as terrorists just for good measure.
Riffy

I didn't throw Pat Tillman under the bus. The MSM did. Pat's brother, who also was an army ranger, had quite alot to say about that. Who threw Tillman under the bus?

Who's the lady lawyer from NYC who's now doing time in the gulag for defending the blind shiek?

I'm happily married, so please stop sending me wedding propositions.

If i ever get into trouble I want to keep this guy on retainer.

TenThousandMotels wrote on Jun 29^th, 2008 at 1:10pm:

Nellcote wrote on Jun 28^th, 2008 at 5:14am:

Call it what you want.
Inside job?
False flag operation?
Go along to get along?

LOL. The problem is....at least your probelm is TRUTH. ...and Facts. The fact is that it was an Isreali /American operation that brought down those towers. Put that in your Masshole pipe and smoke it.

ROTFLMAO! You have gone around the bend several times over in this thread alone! That you would buy into the insane conspiracy theory concerning 9/11 is bizzare in the extreme.

Here's your hat TTM. Sized to fit all people that believe anything that reeks of stupidity.

Riffy

I'd rather wear a tin foil hat than chains and shackles.

TenThousandMotels wrote on Jun 29^th, 2008 at 2:02pm:

I'd rather wear a tin foil hat than chains and shackles.

Or you can be like myself and others and wear neither. Your choice though.

Riffy

TenThousandMotels wrote on Jun 29^th, 2008 at 7:37am:

wrote on Jun 28^th, 2008 at 8:06am:

"Enough with the pablum."

TTM LOVES pablum! And Barry O'Bama will deliver as much as he likes. YES WE CAN!

I'm not voting for Obama. But the only republican I'm voting for is Suzy-Girl. That's the only race in Maine that has national implications this year...like control of the Senate.

suzy creamcheese?

TenThousandMotels wrote on Jun 29^th, 2008 at 7:37am:

wrote on Jun 28^th, 2008 at 8:06am:

"Enough with the pablum."

TTM LOVES pablum! And Barry O'Bama will deliver as much as he likes. YES WE CAN!

I'm not voting for Obama. But the only republican I'm voting for is Suzy-Girl. That's the only race in Maine that has national implications this year...like control of the Senate.

The Dems will keep the Senate so that race actually has little importance.

ROCKS OFF - The Rolling Stones Message Board
http://rocksoff.org/cgi-bin/messageboard/YaBB.pl GENERAL >> MAIN BOARD >> Undercover (some political content) http://rocksoff.org/cgi-bin/messageboard/YaBB.pl?num=1214608118 Message started by TenThousandMotels on Jun 27^th, 2008 at 6:08pm