Ian Billen wrote on Sep 18^th, 2015 at 3:03am:



When Teddy says it, it doesnt need explaining.

With all this splitting of hairs, I'm fast running out of fucks to give, Ian.

Then again, I'm arguing semantics  with the person who until about two months ago refused to believe that Keith would ever issue a solo album - even though the same bonafide insider who's just verified tentative plans for a Stones album was the same source who told us it had been finished a year ago and he was waiting on some Stones downtime to put it out.

If it happens - great. The signs are very good now that I'm reading Mick has okayed it. But you can excuse people for being cynical when its been talked about since about 2008, when it wont be recorded until at least another six months and will probably not be available to buy until maybe 2017.

Gazza wrote on Sep 18^th, 2015 at 7:53pm:



____________________________________________

I can't believe Keith put the album out and it was actually basically finished a year ago I concede ..

He was only working on the material since 2008. I am not believing anyone except Keith only for the simple fact that he has been constantly talking about a Stones album for the last few months .. and now he says he just met with the Stones and there are now 'definite' plans.

Sure.. he has added lib / BS'd us before  .. but not this consistently  .. and he has never said that there were in fact...'definite'... plans to start to record an album between all of them before that I know of ...he simply mentioned he'd like to or that they are thinking about it. There is a major difference.

Ian

Gazza wrote on Sep 18^th, 2015 at 5:47pm:

Right and Teddy doesn't have to say it every day for 10 years. Says it once and you know it's true.

Quote:
scl this statement made me think of this song Hmmmm interesting lol
Crazy for You

By Madonna

Swaying room as the music starts
Strangers making the most of the dark
Two by two their bodies become one

I see you through the smokey air
Can't you feel the weight of my stare
You're so close but still a world away
What I'm dying to say, is that

I'm crazy for you
Touch me once and you'll know it's true
I never wanted anyone like this
It's all brand new, you'll feel it in my kiss
I'm crazy for you, crazy for you

Trying hard to control my heart
I walk over to where you are
Eye to eye we meet, no word at all

Slowly now we begin to move
Every breath I'm deeper into you
Soon we two are standing still in time
If you read my mind, you'll see

I'm crazy for you
Touch me once and you'll know it's true
I never wanted anyone like this
It's all brand new, you'll feel it in my kiss
I'm crazy for you, crazy for you

It's all brand new, I'm crazy for you
And you know it's true
I'm crazy, crazy for you

Keith has relegated himself to being a guitar player in the band with a huge iconic image. Sure, he still plays great, sings great, and comes up with some great riffs and licks (again - when he can be arsed), but at this stage, the Stones could play a show or two, or even a tour, with someone filling in for Keith. Or even record an entire album without his input. They absolutely could not without Mick.

Ian Billen wrote on Sep 20^th, 2015 at 10:05pm:

Sure they could. Keith himself has said that Mick is the only guy he's ever heard to be able to cop his rhythm attack and tone ('Guitar Player' magazine around the time of 'Main Offender' and 'Voodoo Lounge'; early '90s). And remember, Mick wrote "Brown Sugar" solo, with the intro riff and all. Never mind "Sway" and "Moonlight Mile" which don't feature Richards at all, save for his overdubbed harmony vocal on "Sway".

There's a million guys who've slavishly studied Keiths' guitar playing - his tone, attack, lead style, guitar and amp set up, even his look. Not that we'd want or welcome it, but obviously any number of guys from around the world could fill in on an actual Stones gig and, sonically, do just fine. a lot more people can approximate what Keith does than people who can come close to what Jagger does vocally and visually.

Mick better be on board. Keith just blew his wad of songs on Friday so Mick better have some ideas in the can. Hell bring Steve Jordan and Woody into the creative process and make a kick ass Stones album again. (I know not gonna happen)

Ian Billen wrote on Sep 20^th, 2015 at 9:31pm:


Er...Those were written 19-24 years ago. BTB was conceived from a pair of abandoned solo projects. They were not written together.  Both VL and BTB had a pretty much even share of songs which were primarily written by each of the two of them.  That wasnt the case with ABB no matter how you dress it up.

The Bigger Bang 'who did what' thing has been done to death on here before and there's not a shred of evidence in interviews with anyone to suggest that was anywhere close to being a 50/50 split in terms of songwriting. Just because you're working on songs with someone for a few weeks doesnt mean you wrote half of them. Several of those songs were leftovers from 'Alfie' for starters.  I doubt many were started from scratch. That's generally not the way these guys write.

Even if I were to concede (which I dont) that Keith co-wrote half the songs on A Bigger Bang, when you throw in 'One More Shot' and 'Losing My Touch', that's barely ten released Rolling Stones songs where Keith has been the main or joint contributor in the last eighteen years. (I'd argue that the true figure is about six or seven, but anyway).

The only solo output in that time has been his recently released album. And some of those songs actually have their genesis from as much as 22 years ago (the title track is the same as a 'doodle' thats on a bootleg of Voodoo Lounge outtakes and 'Trouble' is the finished version of a song that was recorded by the Stones during the '40 Licks' sessions in Paris in 2002. And thats just the ones we know about because they've been leaked.

When you look how long its taken these 'new' songs to come to fruition, that doesnt really fill me with confidence that Keith will be full of fresh ideas for the next Stones album.

Mick, on the other hand, hasnt released a solo album for over a decade, and his only post ABB work of note was Superheavy, so its reasonable to expect him to have a bit more material available to work on.

PS - and the Stones get 'resurrected' these days on Mick's terms.  That's been the way since 1989 and especially since 'Life' was published. Those public spats always end up with Keith's role in the band reducing in importance afterwards.

Gazza wrote on Sep 21^st, 2015 at 6:34pm:



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Gazza ... Don Was claimed most of A Bigger Bang were not from any other recording sessions. He said they had a ton of material together and even a lump from the 40 licks sessions ... but went on to say almost none of that was used because he said the ABB sessions seemed to be "all from a piece" and that he wanted to stick to that piece.

As well ..he claimed they wrote the stuff as a team as opposed to solo or individually if your watch the DVD about the very making and song writing of A Bigger Bang (sort of hard to argue with that because they made it a point to get that across in that they were working together and writing together more closely than they had in many years). I am going to have to take Don Was's word on that very subject  (without bein a smart arse).

With respect, but I cant believe what everyone is saying on any message board if their producer said that and Charlie Watts affirmed that was the case from what he knows (he came later as you understand). Ronnie was the least present on the album during the writing early demos (according to Mick).

I concede the writing for ABB appeared to be 60/40 Mick.
and it probably was but they wrote almost all the stuff <together>.. besides a few like SOL.

Ian

Ian Billen wrote on Sep 21^st, 2015 at 8:01pm:


I didnt suggest that most of the songs were leftovers.

I'll take Mick's word over Don Was, considering he wrote the bloody songs. I also dont buy into the 'yeah we've working together closer than we have been since we were kids' mantra that gets trotted out every time. What else are they going to say? "Mick/Keith (delete where applicable) wrote 90% of the material" ?

"Laugh I Nearly Died" is a leftover that was originally written for  'Alfie'. As is, from memory "Biggest Mistake". Matt Clifford's involvement on 'Streets of Love' certainly indicates that its pre-2004. I would imagine there's a few more as the 'Alfie' sessions only predate the first ABB sessions by about 4-5 months.

Its not a big deal. Stones songs have for decades often taken years to ferment.  I would doubt there has been any Stones album since probably 'Satanic Majesties' which didnt include material that had been worked on or earmarked for previous projects.  Maybe 'Some Girls' (although 'Miss You' was worked on by Mick with Billy Preston first of all but it wasnt a leftover from a previous record) - and that was also an album where most of the songs had Mick as the main or only writer.

If theyre going to collaborate on songs - and they usually do - its after each of them brings in their own demos. They rarely write songs together from scratch and havent really done that since they were living a couple of hundred yards from each other in Cheyne Walk. 'Steel Wheels' was maybe an exception for the most part although even those sessions had some songs left over from solo projects

From top of my head, except for Rough Justice, This Place Is Empty and Infamy (all Keith's songs), the rest of the album is 100% Mick with bits here and there from Keith.
Mick even said in an interview at the time that he came over with about 11-12 songs/demos to the session written during the last year (2003-04).