Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
 
ROCKS OFF - The Charlie Watts Message Board

Free optional entertainment since (at least) 14 July 1998
...
"The Collector's Series - Rolling Stones Hot Rocks 1962 - 1969" © Mojo with thanks to Irina and Rollover

...
YaBB - Yet another Bulletin Board
Home Help Search Login Register Broadcast Message to Admin(s)


Pages: 1 
Send Topic Print
The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc) (Read 9,794 times)
lotsajizz
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline


Rocks Off Rules You Bastards

Posts: 1,788
Rhode Island
Gender: male
The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
May 27th, 2008 at 8:37pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
Was World War Two just as pointless and self-defeating as Iraq, asks Peter Hitchens
By PETER HITCHENS
Last updated at 21:01 19 April 2008

The Second World War was my religion for most of my life.
Brave, alone, bombed, defiant, we, the British, had won it on our own against the most evil and powerful enemy imaginable.
Born six years after it was over, I felt almost as if I had lived through it, as my parents most emphatically had, with some bravery and much hardship in both cases.
With my toy soldiers, tanks and field-guns, I defeated the Nazis daily on my bedroom floor.
I lost myself in books with unembarrassed titles like Men Of Glory, with their crisp, moving accounts of acts of incredible bravery by otherwise ordinary people who might have been my next-door neighbours.
I read the fictional adventures of RAF bomber ace Matt Braddock in the belief that the stories were true, and not caring in the slightest about what happened when his bombs hit the ground. I do now.
After this came all those patriotic films that enriched the picture of decency, quiet courage and self-mocking humour that I came to think of as being the essence of Britishness. To this day I can't watch them without a catch in the throat.
This was our finest hour. It was the measure against which everything else must be set.
So it has been very hard for me since the doubts set in. I didn't really want to know if it wasn't exactly like that. But it has rather forced itself on me.
When I lived in Russia at the end of the Soviet era, I found a country that made even more of the war than we did.
I even employed a splendid old Red Army war veteran to help me set up my office there: an upright, totally reliable old gentleman just like my father's generation, except that he was Russian and a convinced Stalinist who did odd jobs for the KGB.
They had their war films, too. And their honourable scars.
And they were just as convinced they had won the war single-handed as we were.
They regarded D-Day as a minor event and had never heard of El Alamein.
Once I caught myself thinking: "They're using the war as a way of comforting themselves over their national decline, and over the way they're clearly losing in their contest with America."
And then it came to me that this could be a description of my own country.
When I lived in America itself, where I discovered that the Second World War, in their view, took place mainly in the Pacific, and in any case didn't matter half as much as the Civil War and the Vietnam War, I got a second harsh, unwanted history lesson.
Now here comes another. On a recent visit to the USA I picked up two new books that are going to make a lot of people in Britain very angry.
I read them, unable to look away, much as it is hard to look away from a scene of disaster, in a sort of cloud of dispirited darkness.
Same story? British soldiers at Basra Palace during the Iraq War - a conflict justified on the precedent of the Second World War
They are a reaction to the use - in my view, abuse - of the Second World War to justify the Iraq War.
We were told that the 1939-45 war was a good war, fought to overthrow a wicked tyrant, that the war in Iraq would be the same, and that those who opposed it were like the discredited appeasers of 1938.
Well, I didn't feel much like Neville Chamberlain (a man History has shown saved Britain's chances) when I argued against the Iraq War. And I still don't.
Some of those who opposed the Iraq War ask a very disturbing question.
The people who sold us Iraq did so as if they were today's Churchills. They were wrong.
In that case, how can we be sure that Churchill's war was a good war?
What if the Men of Glory didn't need to die or risk their lives? What if the whole thing was a miscalculated waste of life and wealth that destroyed Britain as a major power and turned her into a bankrupt pensioner of the USA?
Funnily enough, these questions echo equally uncomfortable ones I'm often asked by readers here.
The milder version is: "Who really won the war, since Britain is now subject to a German-run European Union?"
The other is one I hear from an ever-growing number of war veterans contemplating modern Britain's landscape of loutishness and disorder and recalling the sacrifices they made for it: "Why did we bother?"
Don't read on if these questions rock your universe.
The two books, out in this country very soon, are Patrick Buchanan's Churchill, Hitler And The Unnecessary War and Nicholson Baker's Human Smoke.  Also on the same subject is the acclaimed David Irving series "Churchill's War".
I know Pat Buchanan and respect him, but I have never liked his sympathy for "America First", the movement that tried to keep the USA out of the Second World War.
As for Nicholson Baker, he has become famous only because his phone-sex novel, Vox, was given as a present to Bill Clinton by Monica Lewinsky.
Human Smoke is not a novel but a series of brief factual items deliberately arranged to undermine the accepted story of the war, and it has received generous treatment from the American mainstream, especially the New York Times.
Baker is a pacifist, a silly position open only to citizens of free countries with large navies.
He has selected with care to suit his position, but many of the facts here, especially about Winston Churchill and Britain's early enthusiasm for bombing civilian targets, badly upset the standard view.
In his element: Churchill preferred war to peace. claims U.S. author Patrick Buchanan
Here is Churchill, in a 1920 newspaper article, allegedly railing against the "sinister confederacy" of international Jewry.
I say "allegedly" because I have not seen the original. I also say it because I am reluctant to believe it, as I am reluctant to believe another Baker snippet which suggests that Franklin Roosevelt was involved in a scheme to limit the number of Jews at Harvard University.
Such things today would end a political career in an instant.
Many believe the 1939-45 war was fought to save the Jews from Hitler. No facts support this fond belief.
If the war saved any Jews, it was by accident.
Its outbreak halted the "Kindertransport" trains rescuing Jewish children from the Third Reich. We ignored credible reports from Auschwitz and refused to bomb the railway tracks leading to it.
Baker is also keen to show that Hitler's decision to exterminate the Jews of Europe came only after the war was fully launched, and that before then, although his treatment of the Jews was disgusting and homicidal, it stopped well short of industrialised mass murder.
The implication of this, that the Holocaust was a result of the war, not a cause of it, is specially disturbing.
A lot of people will have trouble, also, with the knowledge that Churchill said of Hitler in 1937, when the nature of his regime was well known: "A highly competent, cool, well informed functionary with an agreeable manner, a disarming smile, and few have been unaffected by a subtle personal magnetism."
Three years later, the semi-official view, still pretty much believed, was that Hitler was the devil in human form and more or less insane.
Buchanan is, in a way, more damaging. He portrays Churchill as a man who loved war for its own sake, and preferred it to peace.
As the First World War began in 1914, two observers, Margot Asquith and David Lloyd George, described Churchill as "radiant, his face bright, his manner keen ... you could see he was a really happy man".
Churchill also (rightly) gets it in the neck from Buchanan for running down British armed forces between the wars.
It was Churchill who, as Chancellor of the Exchequer, demanded deep cuts in the Royal Navy in 1925, so when he adopted rearmament as his cause ten years later, it was his own folly he was railing against.
Well, every country needs men who like war, if it is to stand and fight when it has to. And we all make mistakes, which are forgotten if we then get one thing spectacularly right, as Churchill did.
Americans may take or leave Mr Buchanan's views about whether they should have stayed out, but the USA did very well out of a war in which Britain and Russia did most of the fighting, while Washington pocketed (and still keeps) most of the benefits.
Surveying Buchanan's chilly summary, I found myself distressed by several questions.
The First and Second World Wars, as Buchanan says, are really one conflict.
Blood brothers: By Christmas 1940, Stalin (right) had murdered many more people than Hitler, and had invaded nearly as many countries
We went to war with the Kaiser in 1914 mainly because we feared being overtaken by Germany as the world's greatest naval power. Yet one of the main results of the war was that we were so weakened we were overtaken instead by the USA.
We were also forced, by American pressure, to end our naval alliance with Japan, which had protected our Far Eastern Empire throughout the 1914-18 war.
This decision, more than any other, cost us that Empire. By turning Japan from an ally into an enemy, but without the military or naval strength to guard our possessions, we ensured that we would be easy meat in 1941.
After the fall of Singapore in 1942, our strength and reputation in Asia were finished for good and our hurried scuttle from India unavoidable.
Worse still is Buchanan's analysis of how we went to war.
I had always thought the moment we might have stopped Hitler was when he reoccupied the Rhineland on March 7, 1936. But Buchanan records that nobody was interested in such action at the time. Nobody? Yes.
That includes Churchill, who said fatuously on March 13: "Instead of retaliating by armed force, as would have been done in a previous generation, France has taken the proper and prescribed course of appealing to the League of Nations."
He then even more wetly urged "Herr Hitler" to do the decent thing and withdraw.
Buchanan doesn't think that Britain and France could have saved Czechoslovakia in 1938, and I suspect he is right.
But this is a minor issue beside his surgical examination of Britain's guarantee to help Poland in March 1939. Hitler saw our "stand" as an empty bluff, and called it.
The Poles were crushed and murdered, and their country erased from the map. Hitler's eventual defeat left Poland under the Soviet heel for two generations.
We then embarked on a war which cost us our Empire, many of our best export markets, what was left of our naval supremacy, and most of our national wealth - gleefully stripped from us by Roosevelt in return for Lend-Lease supplies.
As a direct result we sought membership of a Common Market that has since bled away our national independence.
Would we not have been wiser to behave as the USA did, staying out of it and waiting for Hitler and Stalin to rip out each other's bowels?
Was Hitler really set on a war with Britain or on smashing the British Empire?
The country most interested in dismantling our Empire was the USA. Hitler never built a surface navy truly capable of challenging ours and, luckily for us, he left it too late to build enough submarines to starve us out.
He was very narrowly defeated in the Battle of Britain, but how would we have fared if, a year later, he had used the forces he flung at Russia to attack us instead?
But he didn't. His "plan" to invade Britain, the famous Operation Sealion, was only a sketchy afterthought, quickly abandoned.
Can it be true that he wasn't very interested in fighting or invading us? His aides were always baffled by his admiration for the British Empire, about which he would drone for hours.
Of course he was an evil dictator. But so was Joseph Stalin, who would later become our honoured ally, supplied with British weapons, fawned on by our Press and politicians, including Churchill himself.
By Christmas 1940, Stalin had in fact murdered many more people than Hitler and had invaded nearly as many countries.
We almost declared war on him in 1940 and he ordered British communists to subvert our war effort against the Nazis during the Battle of Britain.
And, in alliance with Hitler, he was supplying the Luftwaffe with much of the fuel and resources it needed to bomb London.
Not so simple, is it? Survey the 20th Century and you see Britain repeatedly fighting Germany, at colossal expense.
No one can doubt the valour and sacrifice involved.
But at the end of it all, Germany dominates Europe behind the smokescreen of the EU; our Empire and our rule of the seas have gone, we struggle with all the problems of a great civilisation in decline, and our special friend, the USA, has smilingly supplanted us for ever. But we won the war.

Back to top
 

"He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man."  Dr. Johnson.
 
IP Logged
 
Glimmer Twin
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline


Rocks Off Rules You Bastards

Posts: 273
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #1 - May 27th, 2008 at 10:24pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
Whoever Peter Hitchens is, he's obviously an idiot.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
sirmoonie
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline



Posts: 3,477
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #2 - May 27th, 2008 at 10:31pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
Glimmer Twin wrote on May 27th, 2008 at 10:24pm:
Whoever Peter Hitchens is, he's obviously an idiot.  

He's sure as hell not his brother.  What a meandering disconncted hodge podge of bullshit.  What the hell was he trying to argue anyway?  If'n I didn't know better, I'd swear that guy posts here!
Back to top
 

"But in terms of what's left of white people, we're still it." - Andrew Moof Oldham
 
IP Logged
 
mojoman
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline


HMERLS

Posts: 6,528
joyzee
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #3 - May 27th, 2008 at 10:43pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
you made a grown man cry
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
lotsajizz
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline


Rocks Off Rules You Bastards

Posts: 1,788
Rhode Island
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #4 - May 28th, 2008 at 4:26am
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
Glimmer Twin wrote on May 27th, 2008 at 10:24pm:
Whoever Peter Hitchens is, he's obviously an idiot.  


Oh yeah.  England is so much better off now than seventy years ago.


OK now



Cazart!!!!!!!!1
Back to top
 

"He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man."  Dr. Johnson.
 
IP Logged
 
sirmoonie
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline



Posts: 3,477
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #5 - May 28th, 2008 at 9:22am
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
lotsajizz wrote on May 28th, 2008 at 4:26am:
Glimmer Twin wrote on May 27th, 2008 at 10:24pm:
Whoever Peter Hitchens is, he's obviously an idiot.  


Oh yeah.  England is so much better off now than seventy years ago.


OK now



Cazart!!!!!!!!1

Ka-bong!

70 years ago, the United Kingdom was three years out of being attacked by Germany in World War II.  Currently, its in a sustained, continued economic expansion and its largest since the 1800s.  But that has nothing to do with the all around stupid article you posted, or point you were trying to make.

Did you even read it before you posted it?  It reads like a fifth grade report, even if the whacko statements in there made any sense.  Pretty clear where the IQ gene flowed in that family.  Where to even start with that jumbled mess?  More importantly, how does this yo-yo even get published, and when are they going to hire me?  Because I swear to fucking Christ, that dude was discovered posting here.

You need bongs, Jizz.  Break that bong out of the attic and have at the fucker.  You NEED bongs.
Back to top
« Last Edit: May 28th, 2008 at 9:42am by sirmoonie »  

"But in terms of what's left of white people, we're still it." - Andrew Moof Oldham
 
IP Logged
 
Joey
I Have No Life!
*****
Online



Posts: 20,252
Omaha , NE
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #6 - May 28th, 2008 at 9:54am
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
"   If'n I didn't know better, I'd swear that guy posts here!   "


...
!!!!!!



Back to top
 

...&&&&D.J. Jazzy Joe and the Fresh Prince of Boca Raton !™&& *** " VICTORY !!!! " ***...
 
IP Logged
 
Zack
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline


Chiba Face Rules You Bastards!

Posts: 1,727
Dakar
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #7 - May 28th, 2008 at 12:16pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
Jizzy, what's with you and Churchill?  This was written by a moron regurgitating a wacko.  Dubious post.
Back to top
 

Only a crowd can make you feel so alone.
 
IP Logged
 
Starbuck
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Online


Postito, Ergo Sum.

Posts: 4,698
Minneapolis, MN
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #8 - May 28th, 2008 at 12:33pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
this is the anti moonie thread....pro eagle/churchill sucks...what's next? prohibition? pay the bill for the mini bar? god help us!

moonie...pack the kids into the winnebago...we're playing a tribute band fest in st cloud in july with zed leppelin and tumbling dice...more details soon, but the place might be serving juicy lucys...
Back to top
 

"Why would any sane person want to leave Rocks Off? If you have an issue outside of Rocks Off, handle it. When you return it will be as if you never have left. Once you are here-it's expected you stay. Why waste long cultivated posting skills somewhere else? The outside world will not understand." -Nellie

“You assclowns are destroying this nation.” –Riffy

"You can lead a horse to the facts, but you can't make the horse understand the facts if he's a dumbfuck horse stuck on stupid." - Riffy

Posts: 66936 | Registered: Dec 2002



...
 
IP Logged
 
lotsajizz
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline


Rocks Off Rules You Bastards

Posts: 1,788
Rhode Island
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #9 - May 28th, 2008 at 1:24pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
sirmoonie wrote on May 28th, 2008 at 9:22am:
Ka-bong!

70 years ago, the United Kingdom was three years out of being attacked by Germany in World War II.  



I suggest you need a re-reading of history, Neil.  You need a refresher on just who declared war on who first.  Work on your dates too, in between bongs of course.  Myself, I'll be vaporizing instead of living in a mythical past.
Back to top
 

"He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man."  Dr. Johnson.
 
IP Logged
 
andrews27
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline


Wake up Bowie or we all
through!!

Posts: 1,597
Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #10 - May 28th, 2008 at 1:44pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
Speaking as a college History instructor, let me just say that a bit more historical understanding and research is needed before Hitchens' facts and views can be dismissed out-of-hand.

"Don't you start me talkin',
Or I'll tell everythin' I know!"

--David Johansen (after Sonny Boy Williamson)
Back to top
« Last Edit: May 28th, 2008 at 1:45pm by andrews27 »  

That guy that punched Mick at Altamont...and all the Hell's Angels...all that bad acid let them hear A Bigger Bang!!
 
IP Logged
 
Zack
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline


Chiba Face Rules You Bastards!

Posts: 1,727
Dakar
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #11 - May 28th, 2008 at 2:28pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
Hitchens would be writing in German today if Churchill didn't do what he did. 

The analogy between WWII and Iraq is bullshit, as is speculation on "why did we bother" to defeat Hitler. 
Back to top
 

Only a crowd can make you feel so alone.
 
IP Logged
 
Starbuck
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Online


Postito, Ergo Sum.

Posts: 4,698
Minneapolis, MN
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #12 - May 28th, 2008 at 2:45pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
analogies between wwII and iraq are even more sickening than pictures of the eagles wantonly posted by men from omaha who haven't been laid since 1989.
Back to top
 

"Why would any sane person want to leave Rocks Off? If you have an issue outside of Rocks Off, handle it. When you return it will be as if you never have left. Once you are here-it's expected you stay. Why waste long cultivated posting skills somewhere else? The outside world will not understand." -Nellie

“You assclowns are destroying this nation.” –Riffy

"You can lead a horse to the facts, but you can't make the horse understand the facts if he's a dumbfuck horse stuck on stupid." - Riffy

Posts: 66936 | Registered: Dec 2002



...
 
IP Logged
 
Joey
I Have No Life!
*****
Online



Posts: 20,252
Omaha , NE
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #13 - May 28th, 2008 at 3:04pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
" ..................... between wwII and iraq are even more sickening than pictures of the eagles wantonly posted by men from omaha who haven't been laid since 1989 "

" Somebodys gonna hurt someone
Before the night is through
Somebodys gonna come undone.
Theres nothin we can do.
Everybody wants to touch somebody
If it takes all night.
Everybody wants to take a little chance,
Make it come out right.

Theres gonna be a heartache tonight,
A heartache tonight, I know.
Theres gonna be a heartache tonight, I know.
Lord, I know.

Some people like to stay out late
Some folks cant hold out that long
But nobody wants to go home now.
Theres too much goin on.

This night is gonna last forever.
Last all, last all summer long.
Some time before the sun comes up
The radio is gonna play that song.
Theres gonna be a heartache tonight,
A heartache tonight, I know.
Theres gonna be a heartache tonight,
A heartache tonight, I know.
Lord I know.

Theres gonna be a heartache tonight,
The moons shinin bright
So turn out the light, and well get it right.
Theres gonna be a heartache tonight, a
Heartache tonight I know.
Heartache baby,

Somebodys gonna hurt someone, (somebody)
Before the night is through
Somebodys gonna come undone,
Theres nothin we can do
(everybody) everybody wants to touch somebody
If it takes all night
Everybody wants to take a little chance
To make it come out right

Theres gonna be a heartache tonight
A heartache tonight, I know
Theres gonna be a heartache tonight,
A heartache tonight ,i know
Lets go.
We can beat around the bushes;
We can get down to the bone
We can leave it in the parkin lot,
But either way, theres gonna be a
Heartache tonight, a heartache tonight I know.
Therell be a heartache tonight
A heartache tonight I know. "


Back to top
 

...&&&&D.J. Jazzy Joe and the Fresh Prince of Boca Raton !™&& *** " VICTORY !!!! " ***...
 
IP Logged
 
andrews27
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline


Wake up Bowie or we all
through!!

Posts: 1,597
Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #14 - May 28th, 2008 at 3:05pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
Look up the PNAC report about galvanizing US to accept Middle East war on the basis of the provocation of "a new Pearl Harbor," my sweet neocons.
Back to top
 

That guy that punched Mick at Altamont...and all the Hell's Angels...all that bad acid let them hear A Bigger Bang!!
 
IP Logged
 
Joey
I Have No Life!
*****
Online



Posts: 20,252
Omaha , NE
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #15 - May 28th, 2008 at 3:09pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
" moonie...pack the kids into the winnebago...we're playing a tribute band fest in st cloud in july with zed leppelin and tumbling dice...more details soon, but the place might be serving juicy lucys "

... !!!!!!
Back to top
 

...&&&&D.J. Jazzy Joe and the Fresh Prince of Boca Raton !™&& *** " VICTORY !!!! " ***...
 
IP Logged
 
open-g
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline


Silence is golden, Duct
tape is silver

Posts: 617
Berlin
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #16 - May 28th, 2008 at 3:19pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
...
Back to top
 

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side."
 
IP Logged
 
sirmoonie
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline



Posts: 3,477
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #17 - May 28th, 2008 at 3:24pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
lotsajizz wrote on May 28th, 2008 at 1:24pm:
sirmoonie wrote on May 28th, 2008 at 9:22am:
Ka-bong!

70 years ago, the United Kingdom was three years out of being attacked by Germany in World War II.  



I suggest you need a re-reading of history, Neil.  You need a refresher on just who declared war on who first.  Work on your dates too, in between bongs of course.  Myself, I'll be vaporizing instead of living in a mythical past.

Who flippin' cares who formally declared war first?  Howe you, or anyone else, can deny that Germans were threatening civilization as we know it is demented.  And just so YOU know, Churchill was not Prime Minister in 1939.  I'm unclear how he started it.

Admit it, you didn't read that poorly put together article.  You still haven't read it.
Back to top
 

"But in terms of what's left of white people, we're still it." - Andrew Moof Oldham
 
IP Logged
 
sirmoonie
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline



Posts: 3,477
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #18 - May 28th, 2008 at 3:35pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
andrews27 wrote on May 28th, 2008 at 3:05pm:
Look up the PNAC report about galvanizing US to accept Middle East war on the basis of the provocation of "a new Pearl Harbor," my sweet neocons.

What the fuck do neocons have to do with it?  What does galvanizing US support for a Middle East war have to do with Hitchens point that World War II was some unnecessary sham, apparently dreamed up by Churchill and the United States to put the screws to the U.K.?  You're going at this completely backwards.

The absurd thing about the lesser Hitchens goofball statements is equating the magnitude of World War II to the Iraq situation.  Not even Bush Geeks run that play anymore.  Nothing you said supports that demented view which you appear to agree with.
Back to top
 

"But in terms of what's left of white people, we're still it." - Andrew Moof Oldham
 
IP Logged
 
sirmoonie
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline



Posts: 3,477
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #19 - May 28th, 2008 at 3:52pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
andrews27 wrote on May 28th, 2008 at 1:44pm:
Speaking as a college History instructor, let me just say that a bit more historical understanding and research is needed before Hitchens' facts and views can be dismissed out-of-hand.

"Don't you start me talkin',
Or I'll tell everythin' I know!"

--David Johansen (after Sonny Boy Williamson)


Nobody dismissed any of Hitchens facts that I could see, although I'm sure many are bogus and out of context - like that bullshit that he "hears" from an "ever-growing number of war veterans": "Why did we bother?"  Give me a break.

And his views got dismissed because they were mostly incomprehensible - the Holocaust was a result of Britain declaring war on Germany?  WTF?  The Bristish Empire was lost because the U.S. forced Britain quit being friends with the Japs?  WTF?  The fucking nitwit can't even decide if he wants to call Churchill a warmonger or an appeaser, so he tries both within a few paragraphs.
Back to top
 

"But in terms of what's left of white people, we're still it." - Andrew Moof Oldham
 
IP Logged
 
andrews27
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline


Wake up Bowie or we all
through!!

Posts: 1,597
Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #20 - May 28th, 2008 at 4:04pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
sirmoonie wrote on May 28th, 2008 at 3:35pm:
andrews27 wrote on May 28th, 2008 at 3:05pm:
Look up the PNAC report about galvanizing US to accept Middle East war on the basis of the provocation of "a new Pearl Harbor," my sweet neocons.

What the fuck do neocons have to do with it?  What does galvanizing US support for a Middle East war have to do with Hitchens point that World War II was some unnecessary sham, apparently dreamed up by Churchill and the United States to put the screws to the U.K.?  You're going at this completely backwards.

The absurd thing about the lesser Hitchens goofball statements is equating the magnitude of World War II to the Iraq situation.  Not even Bush Geeks run that play anymore.  Nothing you said supports that demented view which you appear to agree with.


Sorry - what is it you insist that I'm agreeing with, here?  He who launches the ad hominem attack is already out of ammo, so forgive me for ignoring the pop-pop-pop of your blanks.

And are we not already involved in unnecessary shams from Iraq through Central Asia?  "Not even Bush Geeks run that play anymore."  No, but they got you in the game with it, and now they're preparing the end-zone dance on the grave of your pension fund.
Back to top
« Last Edit: May 28th, 2008 at 4:20pm by andrews27 »  

That guy that punched Mick at Altamont...and all the Hell's Angels...all that bad acid let them hear A Bigger Bang!!
 
IP Logged
 
Starbuck
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Online


Postito, Ergo Sum.

Posts: 4,698
Minneapolis, MN
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #21 - May 28th, 2008 at 4:20pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
the iraq war sucks. scotty mcclellan told me so!
Back to top
 

"Why would any sane person want to leave Rocks Off? If you have an issue outside of Rocks Off, handle it. When you return it will be as if you never have left. Once you are here-it's expected you stay. Why waste long cultivated posting skills somewhere else? The outside world will not understand." -Nellie

“You assclowns are destroying this nation.” –Riffy

"You can lead a horse to the facts, but you can't make the horse understand the facts if he's a dumbfuck horse stuck on stupid." - Riffy

Posts: 66936 | Registered: Dec 2002



...
 
IP Logged
 
sirmoonie
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline



Posts: 3,477
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #22 - May 28th, 2008 at 4:25pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
andrews27 wrote on May 28th, 2008 at 4:04pm:
sirmoonie wrote on May 28th, 2008 at 3:35pm:
andrews27 wrote on May 28th, 2008 at 3:05pm:
Look up the PNAC report about galvanizing US to accept Middle East war on the basis of the provocation of "a new Pearl Harbor," my sweet neocons.

What the fuck do neocons have to do with it?  What does galvanizing US support for a Middle East war have to do with Hitchens point that World War II was some unnecessary sham, apparently dreamed up by Churchill and the United States to put the screws to the U.K.?  You're going at this completely backwards.

The absurd thing about the lesser Hitchens goofball statements is equating the magnitude of World War II to the Iraq situation.  Not even Bush Geeks run that play anymore.  Nothing you said supports that demented view which you appear to agree with.


Sorry - what is it you insist that I'm agreeing with, here?  He who launches the ad hominem attack is already out of ammo, so forgive me for ignoring the pop-pop-pop of your blanks.

And are we not already involved in unnecessary shams from Iraq through Central Asia?

Look Magoo, I don't know who the hell this Ad Hominem guy is or why his sperm count is low, that's not the point.  The point clearly is what does whether or not the U.S. is running shams from Iraq have to do with diet Hitchens point, or Jizz'ses's point?  It doesn't, either way.  Its mixing fish and apples, man.  Its stupid.  It doesn't make sense.  It is irrelevant to the point.
Back to top
 

"But in terms of what's left of white people, we're still it." - Andrew Moof Oldham
 
IP Logged
 
Starbuck
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Online


Postito, Ergo Sum.

Posts: 4,698
Minneapolis, MN
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #23 - May 28th, 2008 at 4:26pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
Joey wrote on May 28th, 2008 at 3:09pm:
" moonie...pack the kids into the winnebago...we're playing a tribute band fest in st cloud in july with zed leppelin and tumbling dice...more details soon, but the place might be serving juicy lucys "

... !!!!!!


joey, the drummer of the local who tribute band in the twin cities just drove a pacer into the pool of the richfield motel 6.
Back to top
 

"Why would any sane person want to leave Rocks Off? If you have an issue outside of Rocks Off, handle it. When you return it will be as if you never have left. Once you are here-it's expected you stay. Why waste long cultivated posting skills somewhere else? The outside world will not understand." -Nellie

“You assclowns are destroying this nation.” –Riffy

"You can lead a horse to the facts, but you can't make the horse understand the facts if he's a dumbfuck horse stuck on stupid." - Riffy

Posts: 66936 | Registered: Dec 2002



...
 
IP Logged
 
Joey
I Have No Life!
*****
Online



Posts: 20,252
Omaha , NE
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #24 - May 28th, 2008 at 4:26pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
" the iraq war sucks. scotty mcclellan told me so "

Torah is G-d’s gift to the Jews,
and it speaks to thee
of some vast eternal plan
in wondrous majesty.


The message is loud and clear
beyond minds that cannot see.
For G-d loves only Israel
and judges tenderly.


Torah, G-d’s gift to the Jews,
speaks in words sublime.
In messages born of purpose
to the Jewish soul and mind.


Let no nation read us wrong
or mistake Jewish pride.
Our strength is found in Torah
and what G-d Himself, provides.


Torah is G-d’s gift to the Jews.
And the Jew is G-d’s gift to man
to bring holiness down from heaven
to every sea and land.


G-d’s gifts are everywhere.
And it takes the Jew to see
messages of Torah
and immortality.


And messages of Torah
for all eternity.



Back to top
 

...&&&&D.J. Jazzy Joe and the Fresh Prince of Boca Raton !™&& *** " VICTORY !!!! " ***...
 
IP Logged
 
andrews27
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline


Wake up Bowie or we all
through!!

Posts: 1,597
Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #25 - May 28th, 2008 at 5:08pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
Quote:
Look Magoo, I don't know who the hell this Ad Hominem guy is or why his sperm count is low, that's not the point.  The point clearly is what does whether or not the U.S. is running shams from Iraq have to do with diet Hitchens point, or Jizz'ses's point?  It doesn't, either way.  Its mixing fish and apples, man.  Its stupid.  It doesn't make sense.  It is irrelevant to the point.


Let me note first that I am no lover of Patrick Buchanan or David Irving, and I only know N. Baker from his last anti-Bush novel.

However, Hitchens is correct in his evaluation of US-UK politics.  It was a stipulation, directly from Roosevelt to Churchill, that the cost of the Lend-Lease bailout would be the dismantling of Britain's colonial empire and the UN support of nationalism.  Roosevelt was apparently not the originator of this, as it was carried on after his death under Truman's admin (and FDR never thought Truman worthy of including in any war briefings).

The upshot of the empire's dismantling was US military and surveillance proximity to Soviet satellite nations and the USSR itself, from former British turf.  This, along with the long Cold War, *may* have been the endgame of FDR's backers in US-international banking.  It may have been the point of FDR's early courting of Stalin, of his insistence that only he understood and could play "Uncle Joe," and of his shutout of Churchill's overtures to Stalin at Yalta.  On the same business trip, FDR also shut out Churchill from US negotiations with Ibn Saud for aid in exchange for oil and military rights in Arabia.  Consider also Eisenhower's refusal to permit Anthony Eden to use the British military to take back the Suez in the Egyptian nationalization crisis.  See Paul Johnson's excellent study of the 20th century, "Modern Times," and ex-CIA officer Robert Baer's recent precis on the Saudi meeting in "Sleeping with the Devil."

In its day (and in the years before 1917), US entry into WW I was widely perceived by the Left in the US as a fight to protect US investments in Europe.  I myself am interested in Buchanan's thesis that WW I and WW II are the same conflict redux, as the upshot of both was a repartitioning of Europe (and, at Versailles, 1919, the Middle East and western Central Asia).  After WW II, the 1919 repartitioning co-opted from Woodrow Wilson's idealism by David Lloyd George of England and Clemenceau of France was adapted by the US to serve its own petroleum needs, and the requisites of the long Cold War game of bankrupting the Soviets.

As I have made manifest, I tend to agree with Hitchens' suggestion that a Pearl Harbor-style incident was used to create paranoid support for the latest grab of land, resources, and governments.  In 1917, suspicion of the motives of the Great War could not be immediately laid to rest in the US citizenry by the sinking of the Lusitania, which only resulted in the persecution and even lynching of German-Americans in podunk towns of the midwest.  It took Wilson's 1917 revelation to Congress of the infamous Zimmerman telegram, timed to coincide with the abdication of the Czar and the impending withdrawal of Russia from the war, to get the US to declare war on Germany.  "Infamous" as in the infamous "attacks" at Pearl, the Gulf of Tonkin, the WTC/Pentagon.
   
Back to top
« Last Edit: May 28th, 2008 at 10:31pm by andrews27 »  

That guy that punched Mick at Altamont...and all the Hell's Angels...all that bad acid let them hear A Bigger Bang!!
 
IP Logged
 
lotsajizz
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline


Rocks Off Rules You Bastards

Posts: 1,788
Rhode Island
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #26 - May 28th, 2008 at 7:33pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
Zack wrote on May 28th, 2008 at 2:28pm:
Hitchens would be writing in German today if Churchill didn't do what he did.  

The analogy between WWII and Iraq is bullshit, as is speculation on "why did we bother" to defeat Hitler.  



You've fallen for the myth--read more.  Hitler had no designs on England or the Western Hemisphere.  His ambitions were Eastward, as has been exceedingly well documented.  Leaving him on his venture to the East was clearly in the West's best interests.  Instead, Churchill--in the pay and in debt to various foreign and cosmopolitan interests--liquidated the Empire and fought a needless war that strengthened a Stalin who was far more dangerous.
Back to top
 

"He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man."  Dr. Johnson.
 
IP Logged
 
lotsajizz
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline


Rocks Off Rules You Bastards

Posts: 1,788
Rhode Island
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #27 - May 28th, 2008 at 7:36pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
sirmoonie wrote on May 28th, 2008 at 3:24pm:
lotsajizz wrote on May 28th, 2008 at 1:24pm:
sirmoonie wrote on May 28th, 2008 at 9:22am:
Ka-bong!

70 years ago, the United Kingdom was three years out of being attacked by Germany in World War II.  



I suggest you need a re-reading of history, Neil.  You need a refresher on just who declared war on who first.  Work on your dates too, in between bongs of course.  Myself, I'll be vaporizing instead of living in a mythical past.

Howe you, or anyone else, can deny that Germans were threatening civilization as we know it is demented.  



Your assertion is belied by the historical record.  I bet you still believe the Lusitania was an innocent ship also.....more myths foisted on us by those who seek to rewrite history.


Back to top
 

"He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man."  Dr. Johnson.
 
IP Logged
 
lotsajizz
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline


Rocks Off Rules You Bastards

Posts: 1,788
Rhode Island
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #28 - May 28th, 2008 at 7:46pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
Sleep tight Englishmen...


Motorist told flag could be racist
A TEENAGE motorist was told to remove an England flag from his car by a police officer because it could be offensive to immigrants.

Ben Smith, 18, was driving back home to Ingram Road in Melksham on Thursday evening after filling up with petrol, when the officer stopped him on a routine patrol.

He checked the tax disc and tyres on his Vauxhall Corsa but when he noticed the flag of St George on the parcel shelf he told Mr Smith to take it down.

Mr Smith, who works for G Plan Upholsterers on Hampton Park West, said: "He saw the flag and said it was racist towards immigrants and if I refused to take it down I would get a £30 fine.

"I laughed because I thought he was joking, but then I realised he was serious so I had to take it down straight away. I thought it was silly - it's my country and I want to show my support for my country."

Mr Smith had recently installed new speakers in the parcel shelf of his car and wanted to cover them up so they did not get stolen.

He used the flag and laid it out flat on the shelf so it was not obscuring his view out of the rear window.

But it was only there a couple of days before he was stopped by the officer at about 9.30pm close to Melksham Enterprise Park and made to take it down.

He said he is used to getting stopped by the police because he is a young male driver and is often mistaken for a boy racer'.

But he thought it was "a bit strange" to be asked to take down the England flag when the officer found nothing else wrong with his car.

PC Dave Cooper, of Chippenham Road Policing Unit, said he had never come across an officer asking someone to remove an England flag from their car because it could be racist.

He added: "It all depends on the context of a stop. If they are going past a lot of Polish people, for instance, and abusing them, then we possibly would ask them to take the flag down."

He said there would be no police log of Mr Smith having been stopped with details of what was said to him, as there was nothing wrong with his car.

He added the officer could have been based anywhere around the county and just made an independent stop.



Back to top
 

"He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man."  Dr. Johnson.
 
IP Logged
 
sirmoonie
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline



Posts: 3,477
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #29 - May 28th, 2008 at 10:47pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
lotsajizz wrote on May 28th, 2008 at 7:36pm:
sirmoonie wrote on May 28th, 2008 at 3:24pm:
lotsajizz wrote on May 28th, 2008 at 1:24pm:
sirmoonie wrote on May 28th, 2008 at 9:22am:
Ka-bong!

70 years ago, the United Kingdom was three years out of being attacked by Germany in World War II.  



I suggest you need a re-reading of history, Neil.  You need a refresher on just who declared war on who first.  Work on your dates too, in between bongs of course.  Myself, I'll be vaporizing instead of living in a mythical past.

Howe you, or anyone else, can deny that Germans were threatening civilization as we know it is demented.  



Your assertion is belied by the historical record.  I bet you still believe the Lusitania was an innocent ship also.....more myths foisted on us by those who seek to rewrite history.



In very brief form, my understanding of the historical record is that after losing World War I, Germans decided to expand their territory and began systematically invading neighboring countries and exterminating or enslaving the inhabitants.  The underlying basis for this violence and conquest was a belief in some kind of German racial superiority (thereby adding the only humorous bit to the saga the ruined the lives of hundreds of millions of people) and entitlement.  None of this was secret, it was shouted by their duly elected leaders for years.  Things were atrocious in the countries that Germans decided to invade (Poland, Czech Republic, Denmark, Norway, Belgium, Netherlands, and others), as the inhabitants were considered inferior people or "Untermenschen" and treated in like fashion.  Along the way, it was decided that the entire Jewish race should be exterminated, and progress was made toward that goal even before, as you, Peter Hitchens, and the Pope believe, Churchill decided to start World War II. 

There is absolutely no evidence, as you suggest there is, that this behavior would stop on its own at any time.  Why the hell would it?  Its entire purpose, in and of itself, was to keep expanding.  My view, which is the significant majority view now, is that German cultural model would be a threat to civilization as we know it, and knew it then.  I guess you either agree with that or not.
Back to top
 

"But in terms of what's left of white people, we're still it." - Andrew Moof Oldham
 
IP Logged
 
lotsajizz
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline


Rocks Off Rules You Bastards

Posts: 1,788
Rhode Island
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #30 - May 29th, 2008 at 4:21am
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
You need to read more Neil.
Back to top
 

"He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man."  Dr. Johnson.
 
IP Logged
 
Zack
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline


Chiba Face Rules You Bastards!

Posts: 1,727
Dakar
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #31 - May 29th, 2008 at 9:57am
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
lotsajizz wrote on May 28th, 2008 at 7:46pm:
Sleep tight Englishmen...


Motorist told flag could be racist
A TEENAGE motorist was told to remove an England flag from his car by a police officer because it could be offensive to immigrants.

Ben Smith, 18, was driving back home to Ingram Road in Melksham on Thursday evening after filling up with petrol, when the officer stopped him on a routine patrol.

He checked the tax disc and tyres on his Vauxhall Corsa but when he noticed the flag of St George on the parcel shelf he told Mr Smith to take it down.

Mr Smith, who works for G Plan Upholsterers on Hampton Park West, said: "He saw the flag and said it was racist towards immigrants and if I refused to take it down I would get a £30 fine.

"I laughed because I thought he was joking, but then I realised he was serious so I had to take it down straight away. I thought it was silly - it's my country and I want to show my support for my country."

Mr Smith had recently installed new speakers in the parcel shelf of his car and wanted to cover them up so they did not get stolen.

He used the flag and laid it out flat on the shelf so it was not obscuring his view out of the rear window.

But it was only there a couple of days before he was stopped by the officer at about 9.30pm close to Melksham Enterprise Park and made to take it down.

He said he is used to getting stopped by the police because he is a young male driver and is often mistaken for a boy racer'.

But he thought it was "a bit strange" to be asked to take down the England flag when the officer found nothing else wrong with his car.

PC Dave Cooper, of Chippenham Road Policing Unit, said he had never come across an officer asking someone to remove an England flag from their car because it could be racist.

He added: "It all depends on the context of a stop. If they are going past a lot of Polish people, for instance, and abusing them, then we possibly would ask them to take the flag down."

He said there would be no police log of Mr Smith having been stopped with details of what was said to him, as there was nothing wrong with his car.

He added the officer could have been based anywhere around the county and just made an independent stop.





He meant the Welsh.
Back to top
 

Only a crowd can make you feel so alone.
 
IP Logged
 
gimmekeef
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline



Posts: 5,753
Ontario Canada
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #32 - May 29th, 2008 at 10:09am
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
lotsajizz wrote on May 28th, 2008 at 7:33pm:
Zack wrote on May 28th, 2008 at 2:28pm:
Hitchens would be writing in German today if Churchill didn't do what he did.  

The analogy between WWII and Iraq is bullshit, as is speculation on "why did we bother" to defeat Hitler.  



You've fallen for the myth--read more.  Hitler had no designs on England or the Western Hemisphere.  His ambitions were Eastward, as has been exceedingly well documented.  Leaving him on his venture to the East was clearly in the West's best interests.  Instead, Churchill--in the pay and in debt to various foreign and cosmopolitan interests--liquidated the Empire and fought a needless war that strengthened a Stalin who was far more dangerous.


So Hitler completes his eastern dominance and just decides to pack it in leaving England alone to itself? Sure......
Back to top
 

"Runnin Like A Cat In A Thunderstorm"
 
IP Logged
 
sirmoonie
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline



Posts: 3,477
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #33 - May 29th, 2008 at 10:36am
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
gimmekeef wrote on May 29th, 2008 at 10:09am:
lotsajizz wrote on May 28th, 2008 at 7:33pm:
Zack wrote on May 28th, 2008 at 2:28pm:
Hitchens would be writing in German today if Churchill didn't do what he did.  

The analogy between WWII and Iraq is bullshit, as is speculation on "why did we bother" to defeat Hitler.  



You've fallen for the myth--read more.  Hitler had no designs on England or the Western Hemisphere.  His ambitions were Eastward, as has been exceedingly well documented.  Leaving him on his venture to the East was clearly in the West's best interests.  Instead, Churchill--in the pay and in debt to various foreign and cosmopolitan interests--liquidated the Empire and fought a needless war that strengthened a Stalin who was far more dangerous.


So Hitler completes his eastern dominance and just decides to pack it in leaving England alone to itself? Sure......

Jizz is enjoying the luxury of baseless hypothetical theories - no way to actually prove him wrong.  But even assuming Germans only wanted to kill and enslave the entire Eastern half of Europe for their Lebensraum, and then magically stop just because they were completely satiated, wouldn't it still be a good idea to challenge that?  I mean, surely there are some human and moral principles involved in this somewhere?  And wouldn't the world be a lot different and a lot more miserable if that had been allowed to happen?  Its all ridiculous in any case, its clear exactly what Germany wanted to do based on the many words of its elected leaders, its actions, and the actions of the partners it acted in concert with.  These people thought it was a good idea to spend time, energy, national resources, and $$$$$ building human extermination camps, ffs.
Back to top
 

"But in terms of what's left of white people, we're still it." - Andrew Moof Oldham
 
IP Logged
 
nankerphelge
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline


Maybe being bad is more
fun than being good...

Posts: 2,761
Sweet Virginia
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #34 - May 29th, 2008 at 10:40am
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
While there is no doubt that Hitler was influenced by those who saw expansion to the east as necessary, justified, etc., and wrote about it in MK, the thought that this man would somehow show restraint towards other countries borders on the ridiculous.

Hitler did not subscribe to the strict agrarian notions that Germany needed that eastern european land to feed the motherland.  Hitler orchestrated a vast industrial expansion primarily for the purpose of preparing for an inevitable war.  German technological advances in aircraft and tanks were not the works of someone that wanted to plow farmland.  The man had far bigger plans for Germany, and he knew that sooner or later that someone -- likely the Brits or Russians -- would declare war. 

A lot of ink has been spilled on this.
It is ridiculous to think that one has THE answer.
     
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Joey
I Have No Life!
*****
Online



Posts: 20,252
Omaha , NE
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #35 - May 29th, 2008 at 2:52pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
... !!!!!!!!

Back to top
 

...&&&&D.J. Jazzy Joe and the Fresh Prince of Boca Raton !™&& *** " VICTORY !!!! " ***...
 
IP Logged
 
Some Guy
Resident Cretin
*****
Offline



Posts: 15,825
Atlanta
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #36 - May 29th, 2008 at 2:54pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Joey
I Have No Life!
*****
Online



Posts: 20,252
Omaha , NE
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #37 - May 29th, 2008 at 2:55pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
" what's next? prohibition? pay the bill for the mini bar? ....  "



What ?!   :


... !!!!!!!!



Back to top
 

...&&&&D.J. Jazzy Joe and the Fresh Prince of Boca Raton !™&& *** " VICTORY !!!! " ***...
 
IP Logged
 
lotsajizz
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline


Rocks Off Rules You Bastards

Posts: 1,788
Rhode Island
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #38 - May 29th, 2008 at 3:33pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
gimmekeef wrote on May 29th, 2008 at 10:09am:
So Hitler completes his eastern dominance and just decides to pack it in leaving England alone to itself? Sure......



1) 'completing eastern dominance' would've taken his lifetime if even ever could have been achieved
2) there is no documentation that Hitler had anything but admiration for the English and their Empire and he was quite unwilling to replace it....a reading of Mein Kampf and the Second Book make that quite clear and no writing rebuts it....

and this all begs the question that what beating Hitler unleashed was far worse--Stalin, the communists, Mao---some groups conveniently forget the death toll with the latter was far worse than anything the Nazis did....I guess it depends on who the victims are/were?

OK now


Cazart!
Back to top
« Last Edit: May 29th, 2008 at 3:35pm by lotsajizz »  

"He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man."  Dr. Johnson.
 
IP Logged
 
gimmekeef
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline



Posts: 5,753
Ontario Canada
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #39 - May 29th, 2008 at 3:45pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
lotsajizz wrote on May 29th, 2008 at 3:33pm:
gimmekeef wrote on May 29th, 2008 at 10:09am:
So Hitler completes his eastern dominance and just decides to pack it in leaving England alone to itself? Sure......



1) 'completing eastern dominance' would've taken his lifetime if even ever could have been achieved
2) there is no documentation that Hitler had anything but admiration for the English and their Empire and he was quite unwilling to replace it....a reading of Mein Kampf and the Second Book make that quite clear and no writing rebuts it....

and this all begs the question that what beating Hitler unleashed was far worse--Stalin, the communists, Mao---some groups conveniently forget the death toll with the latter was far worse than anything the Nazis did....I guess it depends on who the victims are/were?

OK now


Cazart!


Your argument hinges on Hitler being a rational thinker dedicated to his previous writings.History would suggest a lunatic capable of heinous crimes with no thought of compromise.Stalin and Mao were no saints either of course but Hitler had to go first.We just should have reloaded Patton and let him roll east.
Back to top
 

"Runnin Like A Cat In A Thunderstorm"
 
IP Logged
 
Starbuck
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Online


Postito, Ergo Sum.

Posts: 4,698
Minneapolis, MN
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #40 - May 29th, 2008 at 4:20pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
actually, some of what sean says is true. i would argue that hitler was much more rational than stalin, who was fucking paranoid-schizophrenic-drive-a-pickaxe-through-your-brain from the get go. of course, the more the war dragged on, the more hitler descended into madness, but in the early days, he was most assuredly not nearly as crazy as stalin. provided that you were a regular aryan, were not circumsized and goose stepped with the beat of the rest of country, you would be fine. not so in stalin's russia, where if you dumped leaves in your neighbor's yard, he might get pissed and report you to the govt as goddamn trotskyite, whereupon you'd disappear within a fortnight.

no, i'd take hitler over stalin any day of the week. one of the sad ironies of history is that stalin died an old man in his bed instead of being strung up by his bollocks, which is what the bastard deserved. i can't believe we had to work with that fuckstick. hell, he was running around taking over the baltics, finland and eastern poland while hitler was taking over france. what's the difference?
Back to top
 

"Why would any sane person want to leave Rocks Off? If you have an issue outside of Rocks Off, handle it. When you return it will be as if you never have left. Once you are here-it's expected you stay. Why waste long cultivated posting skills somewhere else? The outside world will not understand." -Nellie

“You assclowns are destroying this nation.” –Riffy

"You can lead a horse to the facts, but you can't make the horse understand the facts if he's a dumbfuck horse stuck on stupid." - Riffy

Posts: 66936 | Registered: Dec 2002



...
 
IP Logged
 
open-g
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline


Silence is golden, Duct
tape is silver

Posts: 617
Berlin
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #41 - May 29th, 2008 at 7:22pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
Any one suggesting to read more of "Mein Kampf" or David Irving....


(During the trial, an English court found that Irving was an "active Holocaust denier," as well as an antisemite and racist, and that he "associates with right-wing extremists who promote neo-Nazism."[3] The judge also ruled that Irving had "for his own ideological reasons persistently and deliberately misrepresented and manipulated historical evidence."[3][4]

He served a prison sentence in Austria from February to December 2006 for glorifying and identifying with the German Nazi Party, which is a crime in Austria under section 3g of the Verbotsgesetz law. )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Irving

...should get their head examined and consider to have a swastika tattooed to their forehead.

FUCK IT  Shut the fuck up now
Back to top
« Last Edit: May 29th, 2008 at 7:55pm by open-g »  

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side."
 
IP Logged
 
lotsajizz
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline


Rocks Off Rules You Bastards

Posts: 1,788
Rhode Island
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #42 - May 29th, 2008 at 9:06pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
gimmekeef wrote on May 29th, 2008 at 3:45pm:
Your argument hinges on Hitler being a rational thinker dedicated to his previous writings.History would suggest a lunatic capable of heinous crimes with no thought of compromise.



Absolutely naive and childish and and fatally wrong and indicative of why the Terror WILL happen again.  Hitler WAS rational--he WAS sane---every doctor who ever examined him found him sane and nothing in the record has ever given cause for a SINGLE doctor after the fact to suggest he was NOT rational.  Hitler was not insane HE WAS EVIL.  The notion that EVIL comes foaming out at the mouth and being insane is ignorant and childish and its retention enures EVIL WILL happen again.  Sometimes EVIL comes wearing a suit and tie, talking rationally, and appealing to sane people.  THAT was the horror of Hitler--not that he was insane but that he was sane!!!  And EVIL.  Be on guard--EVIL comes in many guises--and some of them involve suits and smooth, rational talking....childish ignorance of history simply speeds its repetition....


Back to top
 

"He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man."  Dr. Johnson.
 
IP Logged
 
sirmoonie
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline



Posts: 3,477
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #43 - May 29th, 2008 at 9:30pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
open-g wrote on May 29th, 2008 at 7:22pm:
Any one suggesting to read more of "Mein Kampf" or David Irving....


(During the trial, an English court found that Irving was an "active Holocaust denier," as well as an antisemite and racist, and that he "associates with right-wing extremists who promote neo-Nazism."[3] The judge also ruled that Irving had "for his own ideological reasons persistently and deliberately misrepresented and manipulated historical evidence."[3][4]

He served a prison sentence in Austria from February to December 2006 for glorifying and identifying with the German Nazi Party, which is a crime in Austria under section 3g of the Verbotsgesetz law. )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Irving

...should get their head examined and consider to have a swastika tattooed to their forehead.

FUCK IT  Shut the fuck up now

HAHA!!  It's that David Irving??  I didn't catch that reference amid all the other confused garbage Hitchens was trying to say.  Holy fuck, what an idiotic article.  No wonder his brother doesn't talk to him.
Back to top
 

"But in terms of what's left of white people, we're still it." - Andrew Moof Oldham
 
IP Logged
 
mojoman
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline


HMERLS

Posts: 6,528
joyzee
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #44 - May 29th, 2008 at 9:59pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
open-g wrote on May 29th, 2008 at 7:22pm:
Any one suggesting to read more of "Mein Kampf" or David Irving....


(During the trial, an English court found that Irving was an "active Holocaust denier," as well as an antisemite and racist, and that he "associates with right-wing extremists who promote neo-Nazism."[3] The judge also ruled that Irving had "for his own ideological reasons persistently and deliberately misrepresented and manipulated historical evidence."[3][4]

He served a prison sentence in Austria from February to December 2006 for glorifying and identifying with the German Nazi Party, which is a crime in Austria under section 3g of the Verbotsgesetz law. )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Irving

...should get their head examined and consider to have a swastika tattooed to their forehead.

FUCK IT  Shut the fuck up now




mein kampf with drugs............
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Starbuck
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Online


Postito, Ergo Sum.

Posts: 4,698
Minneapolis, MN
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #45 - May 29th, 2008 at 10:41pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
come now G...you have to read MK to understand hitler.

just happens to be the most longwinded, crappily written piece of trash in the history of stringing words together...but until you've read it, you can't understand why what sean says is true.
Back to top
 

"Why would any sane person want to leave Rocks Off? If you have an issue outside of Rocks Off, handle it. When you return it will be as if you never have left. Once you are here-it's expected you stay. Why waste long cultivated posting skills somewhere else? The outside world will not understand." -Nellie

“You assclowns are destroying this nation.” –Riffy

"You can lead a horse to the facts, but you can't make the horse understand the facts if he's a dumbfuck horse stuck on stupid." - Riffy

Posts: 66936 | Registered: Dec 2002



...
 
IP Logged
 
open-g
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline


Silence is golden, Duct
tape is silver

Posts: 617
Berlin
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #46 - May 30th, 2008 at 7:12am
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
Starbuck wrote on May 29th, 2008 at 10:41pm:
come now G...you have to read MK to understand hitler.

just happens to be the most longwinded, crappily written piece of trash in the history of stringing words together...but until you've read it, you can't understand why what sean says is true.


first of - It is illegal in germany to have such a copy.
But be asured, it has been discussed early and plenty enough at school and elsewhere.
I don't recomend an uncomented reading of that piece of crap anyhow.
most ppl in germany are quite aware of what this sicko was up to and do understand without reading MK!
Back to top
 

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side."
 
IP Logged
 
gimmekeef
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline



Posts: 5,753
Ontario Canada
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #47 - May 30th, 2008 at 7:22am
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
lotsajizz wrote on May 29th, 2008 at 9:06pm:
gimmekeef wrote on May 29th, 2008 at 3:45pm:
Your argument hinges on Hitler being a rational thinker dedicated to his previous writings.History would suggest a lunatic capable of heinous crimes with no thought of compromise.



Absolutely naive and childish and and fatally wrong and indicative of why the Terror WILL happen again.  Hitler WAS rational--he WAS sane---every doctor who ever examined him found him sane and nothing in the record has ever given cause for a SINGLE doctor after the fact to suggest he was NOT rational.  Hitler was not insane HE WAS EVIL.  The notion that EVIL comes foaming out at the mouth and being insane is ignorant and childish and its retention enures EVIL WILL happen again.  Sometimes EVIL comes wearing a suit and tie, talking rationally, and appealing to sane people.  THAT was the horror of Hitler--not that he was insane but that he was sane!!!  And EVIL.  Be on guard--EVIL comes in many guises--and some of them involve suits and smooth, rational talking....childish ignorance of history simply speeds its repetition....




Childish?.   Hey buddy I have a masters in political science and studied history.Your whole argument is naive and based on your personal observations and thoughts.You have an opinion..great..now respect those that have different opinions.
Back to top
 

"Runnin Like A Cat In A Thunderstorm"
 
IP Logged
 
Starbuck
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Online


Postito, Ergo Sum.

Posts: 4,698
Minneapolis, MN
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #48 - May 30th, 2008 at 7:23am
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
open-g wrote on May 30th, 2008 at 7:12am:
first of - It is illegal in germany to have such a copy.
But be asured, it has been discussed early and plenty enough at school and elsewhere.
I don't recomend an uncomented reading of that piece of crap anyhow.
most ppl in germany are quite aware of what this sicko was up to and do understand without reading MK!


Herr G! Kommst du aus Deutscland? Bist du Deutscher?

Strange that MK isn't even allowed to be read at German universities....i remember reading testimonials from former slave owners in college...not just the border state slave owners either - i'm talkin about the deep south plantation honkies. it just baffled my mind that anyone could think that about other human beings. i certainly learned from the experience...just as i did from reading MK.

well...selections from MK. nobody has actually ever read that thing from cover to cover. no way.
Back to top
 

"Why would any sane person want to leave Rocks Off? If you have an issue outside of Rocks Off, handle it. When you return it will be as if you never have left. Once you are here-it's expected you stay. Why waste long cultivated posting skills somewhere else? The outside world will not understand." -Nellie

“You assclowns are destroying this nation.” –Riffy

"You can lead a horse to the facts, but you can't make the horse understand the facts if he's a dumbfuck horse stuck on stupid." - Riffy

Posts: 66936 | Registered: Dec 2002



...
 
IP Logged
 
open-g
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline


Silence is golden, Duct
tape is silver

Posts: 617
Berlin
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #49 - May 30th, 2008 at 7:45am
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
Ich bin beides - deutscher und engländer zugleich

...and no, I won't start reading that crap.
Back to top
 

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side."
 
IP Logged
 
Joey
I Have No Life!
*****
Online



Posts: 20,252
Omaha , NE
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #50 - May 30th, 2008 at 9:46am
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
" HAHA!!  It's that David Irving??  I didn't catch that reference amid all the other confused garbage Hitchens was trying to say.  Holy fuck, what an idiotic article.  No wonder his brother doesn't talk to him "


You raise an interesting and extremely salient point SirMoonie ...............


In fact  .............   , it was just last evening  --- whilst watching ' HardBall with Chris Matthews  '   --  that a sensaste analysis filled a shocking void in the studio that ................................ WAIT !!!!! ........ oh , GOD NO !!!!!  .... NOT NOW !!!! :


" Desperado, why dont you come to your senses?
You been out ridin fences for so long now
Oh, youre a hard one
I know that you got your reasons
These things that are pleasin you
Can hurt you somehow

Don you draw the queen of diamonds, boy
Shell beat you if shes able
You know the queen of heats is always your best bet

Now it seems to me, some fine things
Have been laid upon your table
But you only want the ones that you cant get

Desperado, oh, you aint gettin no youger
Your pain and your hunger, theyre drivin you home
And freedom, oh freedom well, thats just some people talkin
Your prison is walking through this world all alone

Dont your feet get cold in the winter time?
The sky wont snow and the sun wont shine
Its hard to tell the night time from the day
Youre loosin all your highs and lows
Aint it funny how the feeling goes away?

Desperado, why dont you come to your senses?
Come down from your fences, open the gate
It may be rainin, but theres a rainbow above you
You better let somebody love you, before its too late  "


...












Back to top
« Last Edit: May 30th, 2008 at 9:55am by Joey »  

...&&&&D.J. Jazzy Joe and the Fresh Prince of Boca Raton !™&& *** " VICTORY !!!! " ***...
 
IP Logged
 
lotsajizz
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline


Rocks Off Rules You Bastards

Posts: 1,788
Rhode Island
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #51 - May 30th, 2008 at 11:08am
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
gimmekeef wrote on May 30th, 2008 at 7:22am:
Childish?.   Hey buddy I have a masters in political science and studied history.Your whole argument is naive and based on your personal observations and thoughts.You have an opinion..great..now respect those that have different opinions.


No, mine is based on documentary evidence I would be happy to provide citation of if you wish to PM me.  Your 'opinion' concerning Hitler's mental health is based on nothing.
Back to top
 

"He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man."  Dr. Johnson.
 
IP Logged
 
gimmekeef
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline



Posts: 5,753
Ontario Canada
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #52 - May 30th, 2008 at 11:15am
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
Actually Jizz Ive wasted enough of my time on you and Hitler..bye bye
Back to top
 

"Runnin Like A Cat In A Thunderstorm"
 
IP Logged
 
Joey
I Have No Life!
*****
Online



Posts: 20,252
Omaha , NE
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #53 - May 30th, 2008 at 4:28pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
" ..  wasted enough of my time on you and Hitler..bye bye "


*** IT'S PUB TIME !!!!! ****



** BYE BYE !! **


**** BYE BONS !!! ****


www.BRAZENHEADPUB.com





J. " Snuggle - to - the - Joe !!! " Fly ! ™
Back to top
« Last Edit: May 30th, 2008 at 4:29pm by Joey »  

...&&&&D.J. Jazzy Joe and the Fresh Prince of Boca Raton !™&& *** " VICTORY !!!! " ***...
 
IP Logged
 
lotsajizz
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline


Rocks Off Rules You Bastards

Posts: 1,788
Rhode Island
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #54 - May 30th, 2008 at 7:19pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
gimmekeef wrote on May 30th, 2008 at 11:15am:
Actually Jizz Ive wasted enough of my time on you and Hitler..bye bye



i.e. "my bluff's been called, I have nothing, running away now"
Back to top
 

"He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man."  Dr. Johnson.
 
IP Logged
 
nankerphelge
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline


Maybe being bad is more
fun than being good...

Posts: 2,761
Sweet Virginia
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #55 - May 31st, 2008 at 8:46am
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
He isn't running away.
He is tired of wasting his breath arguing with you whether Adolph Hitler was insane.

Whatever "documentary evidence" you have, you should share it with the many historians (people who actually do this rather than post stupid shit on message boards) who have debated the issue for years and who have still not reached a definitive conclusion.

Seriously dude, you aren't the oracle of all things just because you read some books.
Get over yourself



Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
lotsajizz
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline


Rocks Off Rules You Bastards

Posts: 1,788
Rhode Island
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #56 - May 31st, 2008 at 11:32am
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
nankerphelge wrote on May 31st, 2008 at 8:46am:
Whatever "documentary evidence" you have, you should share it with the many historians (people who actually do this rather than post stupid shit on message boards) who have debated the issue for years and who have still not reached a definitive conclusion.



1) Diagnosis comes from medical professionals, not historians.
2) Even amongst historians, there has been a definitive conclusion (not to mention you flunk Logic 101 for suggesting the burden of proof is not on the proponent, eh counsellor?). 

btw, my first published history work comes out this summer, Mr. Posting Stupid Shit On Message Boards.  Maybe I'll give you a discount.


Cazart!
Back to top
 

"He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man."  Dr. Johnson.
 
IP Logged
 
Zack
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline


Chiba Face Rules You Bastards!

Posts: 1,727
Dakar
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #57 - May 31st, 2008 at 12:20pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
lotsajizz wrote on May 31st, 2008 at 11:32am:
 

btw, my first published history work comes out this summer,



On Churchill, no doubt?
Back to top
 

Only a crowd can make you feel so alone.
 
IP Logged
 
lotsajizz
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline


Rocks Off Rules You Bastards

Posts: 1,788
Rhode Island
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #58 - May 31st, 2008 at 8:40pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
My title says it all "500 Days; The War In Eastern Europe, 1944-1945".  Should be out by September-October.
Back to top
 

"He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man."  Dr. Johnson.
 
IP Logged
 
Zack
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline


Chiba Face Rules You Bastards!

Posts: 1,727
Dakar
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #59 - Jun 1st, 2008 at 9:57am
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
Are you a trained historian, jizzy?  I thought you were a lawyer.
Back to top
 

Only a crowd can make you feel so alone.
 
IP Logged
 
lotsajizz
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline


Rocks Off Rules You Bastards

Posts: 1,788
Rhode Island
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #60 - Jun 1st, 2008 at 1:34pm
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
I'm both.  My love is history (Ph.D) but I make my $ as a lawyer.  Hopefully this new opportunity will change that.
Back to top
 

"He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man."  Dr. Johnson.
 
IP Logged
 
nankerphelge
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline


Maybe being bad is more
fun than being good...

Posts: 2,761
Sweet Virginia
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #61 - Jun 2nd, 2008 at 6:39am
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
"my first published history work comes out this summer, Mr. Posting Stupid Shit On Message Boards.  Maybe I'll give you a discount."

Thanks
Can always use some extra toilet paper around here...

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
lotsajizz
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline


Rocks Off Rules You Bastards

Posts: 1,788
Rhode Island
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #62 - Jun 2nd, 2008 at 7:34am
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
that's because you're full of shit
Back to top
 

"He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man."  Dr. Johnson.
 
IP Logged
 
nankerphelge
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline


Maybe being bad is more
fun than being good...

Posts: 2,761
Sweet Virginia
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #63 - Jun 2nd, 2008 at 9:33am
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
Clever retort.
You must have a Ph.D. for something that deep.

So, you started this thread in order to gin up a discussion/debate so that you could ultimately plug your own book?

Pathetic!







Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
lotsajizz
Rocks Off Regular
*****
Offline


Rocks Off Rules You Bastards

Posts: 1,788
Rhode Island
Gender: male
Re: The Churchill Myth Crumbles (nsc)
Reply #64 - Jun 2nd, 2008 at 10:53am
Alert Board Moderator about this Post! 
Wrong again.  My book and Churchill have little to do with one another.
Back to top
 

"He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man."  Dr. Johnson.
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 
Send Topic Print
(Moderators: Gazza, Voodoo Chile in Wonderland)